The next reworked frame

[pwnSacrifice]

So, who do YOU think will be the next frame to get some treatment?

While I'd say all frames *can* work in today's Warframe, it's also clear not every frame is in a great place. Be it outdated kits, a plethora of bad abilities, or just missed the mark, there are a few frames I'd say could use a work up. I know this is a pretty common topic, but with inaros done, I'm curious as to who you all think needs it.

For me, there are 3 that stand out more than others. Banshee, Caliban, and Trinity. There's others I think could use help, but these are the ones I think need the most work.

Banshee basically only has 3 abilities and really only silence is dependable. She's also the most vulnerable frame in the game. She's my pick for most in need.

Caliban doesn't do anything that other frames can do a lot better. His 1 is a meme, his 3 makes atlas' rocks seem good, and his 4 and 2 are done better by multiple other frames. He was DoA and DE did nothing to help him

Trinity is mostly just showing her age. She's grandma support and she's not bad at all however she doesn't have a lot to do either. Healing has been less and less useful as time goes on, and energy is pretty free these days. Merging well and vampire, tweaking link and blessing, and giving her a new tool might be the sort of makeover grandma needs.

What are your thoughts? 

[BiancaRoughfin]

Yeah, i really think Banshee should get a touch up next, shes been too long in the mud.

She was, at the time, a very powerful frame but that was back when 250 blast damage would kill lvl 80 mobs. After DE rebalanced enemy levels/strength she really fell off, her 4th did receive an Augment but it was hated by most non-Banshee players and it later got nerfed.

I think DE has to rework mostly her 1 and 4 as they are pretty weak.

[Tiltskillet]

The next one is likely to be Cali, as afaik, it's the only one that's been hinted at.  And I don't imagine DE doing more than one at a time.

Personally I'd put Chroma and  Trinity before Banshee.   Although in terms of predictions I think Banshee is more likely than Chroma due to usage and never having gotten a touch--up.

Edited April 21 by Tiltskillet

[0_The_F00l]

I don't know if banshee needs anything ,

Granted she is a glass cannon that needs very specific cannonballs (weapons ) to work. She can be customized to be very effective at most things, she is a frame with a  very moderate floor and high ceiling needing a very active playstyle to reach that ceiling.

Caliban I think is the next in line.

I do have a personal bias and would like some tweaks to equinox to make her smoother.

[Raarsi]

Last I heard, Valkyr was next up before the sudden shift to appease the masses and rework Inaros.

Atlas is another one I wouldn't mind seeing on the rework list too.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

3 hours ago, pwnSacrifice said:

Trinity is mostly just showing her age. She's grandma support and she's not bad at all however she doesn't have a lot to do either. Healing has been less and less useful as time goes on, and energy is pretty free these days

This sums her up pretty well. 

Energy is overflowing. We have new mods. Arcanes. New abilities. Some in the helminth that provide energy or energy multiplyer. Archon shards.

Healing.. heh.. almost every single build i have runs molt reconstruct. Gloom is a thing. 

Again. Archon shards. Either a nidus style passive mini heal or bonus hp on orbs. 

Trins playstyle sadly has been left behind over the years since her release. Granny needs a facelift.

 

Caliwho.. was pretty abandoned from the start. Very few seem to like him. So hes high up there...

As is banshee.. Atlas.. 

 

But i say Trin needs it most as Caliban is newer..

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Raarsi said:

Last I heard, Valkyr was next up before the sudden shift to appease the masses and rework Inaros.

 

Where did you hear that?

[C11H22O1]

Probably Caliban, just a pretty underwhelming Warframe that got completely overshadowed by New War and it's not exactly a very quick grind.

No wonder he's the least used frame without counting Qorvex since he was released at the end of the year.

[Birdframe_Prime]

So... out of the frames that I think need a touch-up the most, there's two levels of what I would see as a Rework.

I feel that some frames need the Inaros form of rework, where they have all the right functions, but need them to be better defined. While others need actual functional shifts to make them more applicable to the current and potential future of the game.

Banshee, for example, does need a bit of a more intensive rework. Her 1 is... only even slightly applicable these days with the Augment. Her 2 and 3 are powerful in their specifics, but you have to really play around specifically those to make them really shine, while her 4th is genuinely the wrong kind of ability in today's and future Warframe.

Caliban, on the other hand, needs a basic Combo tweak to his kit to make him more viable, because his 4 is great (slow, but great), his Lethal Progeny are a great summoning function and can really help with area control, but should definitely interact with his kit more than just 'regen shields and spin at things', his Sentient Wrath is absolutely great for what it does, with damage vulnerability, lifting and even low level damage... but his 1? Is just... so lacking. So why not have them interact a bit better? Just the simple tweak of his Lethal Progeny clustering up whenever he cast 1 and multiplying the damage of it based on how many of them were summoned, combo'd with Sentient Wrath and maybe having a bonus effect on enemies that were stripped by his 4. Just a little kit interaction would make it sing.

Valkyr is an odd one, as she might need more of an in-depth rework. I mean... the very first thing would be to fix the Animations on her 4. That's one of the worst things about using her Claws... the Hysteria move set... But. A Berserker theme actually could really work well here, if you take it as implied by the kit; a grapnel was a common thing for Vikings, because of ship-to-shore or ship-to-ship combat, a war cry was an effective bolster for them and others, flinging off their clothing at the enemy was an intimidation tactic that would stun enemies and intimidate them, and the mythical Berserker ability to ignore pain and injuries, sustaining themselves on anger alone, is an amazing 4th. But. It could be tied together way better. Maybe instead of Valkyr's 4 draining Energy it drained Health. She's invulnerable, it's not like she needs it and Claws regens Health anyway for sustain. and if you max out her Health you gain Overguard instead. Why? Because we could make her 3 use Shields at base, but use Overguard instead if that's available, and we could massively scale the damage and effects of Paralysis based on whether she sacrificed Shields or Overguard to do it. Have Warcry lose its armour boost in favour of taking the enemy Slow and the team buff with her as a full-duration radius, and then add effects to her 1 that make it possible to really get some use out of the down-attack on her 4.

The biggest one is Trinity.

I mean... Trinity... Seriously...

That frame has only ever had a buff when she got an Augment or when her 1 became a Helminth. That's it. Every other change to Trin has been to nerf some function that DE didn't intend to happen. Hell, something you can't convince me otherwise about is that a substantial part of the reason that Self Damage was taken out of the game was because of how it combo'd with Trin's Link. Trin would need something massive. Like... Blessing stopped being a full team heal and DR and instead became a team Buff, leaving her healing to be dealt with using her 1, her EV on 2, and then fundamentally changing Link to do something with all enemies in range instead of just a few. 

And then there's Equinox, who is getting a lot of bad press because of Dante, because apparently he does what Equinox does... sort of. And Equinox definitely needs something more in-depth, because instead of focusing on doing just one side of her kit at a time, Equinox should be able... no, she should be encouraged to bounce back and forth, playing both Day and Night sides off each other and having effects specifically that happen when you switch forms with them active. With active and consistent switching, Equinox should be able to maintain all her buffs, and consistently apply CC and Debuffs to the enemy over and over to make her 4 do something more than just 'radial damage' and 'radial heal'.

But...

As to who comes first?

No clue. ^^

[ToastyGrimlock98]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

The next one is likely to be Cali, as afaik, it's the only one that's been hinted at.  And I don't imagine DE doing more than one at a time.

Personally I'd put Chroma and  Trinity before Banshee.   Although in terms of predictions I think Banshee is more likely than Chroma due to usage and never having gotten a touch--up.

Has DE even acknowledged Caliban existence after his release? 

[Tiltskillet]

20 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Has DE even acknowledged Caliban existence after his release? 

Barely.  But there's been a bit recently.

https://www.youtube.com/live/aMTym46pDns?si=SGf8dKmhc5V45AFd&t=2512

edit: actually rewatching that, and listening to the next question, I guess they might have somebody in mind along with or before Caliban. 

Who that would be, I don't have a strong feeling about.   I think maybe it depends more on "Who needs it?" and  somebody on the team being inspired with an idea they think sounds fun. and less on "Who needs it the very, very most-est?"

For fun, I'll put a name out there just because it seems as plausible as any and I haven't seen it yet in the thread: Limbo.

 

Edited April 21 by Tiltskillet

[makaloff95]

5 hours ago, pwnSacrifice said:

So, who do YOU think will be the next frame to get some treatment?

While I'd say all frames *can* work in today's Warframe, it's also clear not every frame is in a great place. Be it outdated kits, a plethora of bad abilities, or just missed the mark, there are a few frames I'd say could use a work up. I know this is a pretty common topic, but with inaros done, I'm curious as to who you all think needs it.

For me, there are 3 that stand out more than others. Banshee, Caliban, and Trinity. There's others I think could use help, but these are the ones I think need the most work.

Banshee basically only has 3 abilities and really only silence is dependable. She's also the most vulnerable frame in the game. She's my pick for most in need.

Caliban doesn't do anything that other frames can do a lot better. His 1 is a meme, his 3 makes atlas' rocks seem good, and his 4 and 2 are done better by multiple other frames. He was DoA and DE did nothing to help him

Trinity is mostly just showing her age. She's grandma support and she's not bad at all however she doesn't have a lot to do either. Healing has been less and less useful as time goes on, and energy is pretty free these days. Merging well and vampire, tweaking link and blessing, and giving her a new tool might be the sort of makeover grandma needs.

What are your thoughts? 

Valkyr is also in need of a rework, 2 of her abilities are straight up useless (1st and 3rd ability). her 2nd is okay-ish but its just a buff so doesnt do much really and if you running with augment you cant reapply it on your team mates so if you wanna buff entire group you have to run without the augment. Her 4th does alot of dmg but the stance is really bad (especielly the heavy attack), drains stupid amount of energy and if you would be nullified you get punished quite hard due to the "build up" damage. Shes also very suspectible to nullifiers, which doesnt work that well with her 4th being strict meele.

But to answer OP: id say Caliban should be next, he really desperately needs a overhaul, banshee is lacking but atleast you can pump some nice dmg with her with correct builds and ability usage, caliban on the other hand....

[(PSN)robotwars7]

7 hours ago, pwnSacrifice said:

Banshee, Caliban, and Trinity.

banshee I disagree with: she can still be pretty damn powerful, I've taken her to Netracells and she's kicked a LOT of ass with a Resonance build. enemy level don't mena S#&$ when you make them practically glow with weak spots.

Caliban definitely needs some love, he's usable but doens't really excel at anything at all.. he's a jack of all trades without actually being good at any of them. 

Trinity, i think is a wider issue, that being the answer to the question "what place is there, if any, for a specialized support frame in Warframe 2024?". I think this should be pondered at length first, before making any tweaks to trinity's kit, as her pure-support nature is what defines her, and changing that is a very drastic course of action to take IMO. I doubt people want to see her become yet another frame with 1 DPS, 1CC and 1 Support ability, or similar, even if a more versatile kit makes her stronger.

personally I'd like Valkyr to get seen next, a tanky buffer frame has no place being mediocre, and it might tempt DE to start looking at the wider problems with Exalted weapons..

 

[Mr.Holyroller]

The only correct answer is Oberon.

Its so bad people forget he exists 

[Tiltskillet]

29 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

The only correct answer is Oberon.

Its so bad people forget he exists 

I'd be very excited for an Oberon rework.  He's kind of the perfect candidate for me:  if the rework is great, I'd love the excuse to play him more.  If it sucks...well, I'll continue to barely ever play him.

[Raarsi]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Where did you hear that?

It was a while ago (pretty sure it was before the Hydroid buffs), and it was the only frame I remember Pablo specifically mentioning.  It did make some sense since her only useful ability is her helminth ability since her first ability is considerably pointless, her third ability is just a CC because of how terrible the damage is and her fourth ability is only useful when you're using her underwhelming exalted weapons, meaning that you can't really play her effectively at ranged.

[aminisi]

If a new frame with the following features were added, would it be said that it needs a rework?

• By spamming abilities, it can increase damage to enemies by 100 to 400 times.
• If there are multiple of these frames, the damage multiplies: two frames can cause 10K to 160K times damage, and four frames can cause between 100M to 25.6G times damage.
• The damage boost is effective not only for the squad but also for companions, so even if the frame itself doesn't attack, it can make sentinel clones commit mass slaughter. As a result, energy orbs are mass-produced.
• Each use of an ability makes the frame invincible for about a second. Therefore, as long as abilities are continuously used, the frame remains invulnerable.
• Even if it goes down accidentally, it can revive in a few seconds.
• The frame can move at high speed while using abilities.
• The damage boost also applies to ability damage.
• It has a wide-area attack ability without line-of-sight checks, and when combined with damage buffs and wide-area armor stripping, this frame alone can achieve wide-area annihilation on Steel Path missions.

The only things lacking are players' understanding and interest, and it's beside the point to mention the possibility of a rework due to her being weak.
It's understandable to discuss ease of use, but having all frames designed to provide survivability and a slightly unique experience by using an ability once every 30 seconds would be both boring and lack diversity.

[Zahnrad]

I wouldn't mind a Protea rework since she's getting Primed.

Idunno what it is but something about her kit just...doesn't seem interesting to me.

Maybe I'm just not building her right but her Shield Satelites don't have as much survivability as I expected them to have. And I just...don't think her 4th is interesting at all, it was the ability I subsumed off of her.

Edited April 22 by Zahnny

[pwnSacrifice]

37 minutes ago, aminisi said:

If a new frame with the following features were added, would it be said that it needs a rework? 

....

I know you're talking about Banshee, but when you leave out the important bits, it's easy to make sound good.

But how about those damage buffs not working on actual important enemies, the total lack of in-built survivability, and multiple dead abilities?  If you like her great, but she's in need of help.

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

The only correct answer is Oberon.

Its so bad people forget he exists 

I forgot about Oberon! He also badly needs love. Much like Trinity, he's just an old healer.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

Nyx, oberon, valkyr, banshee and ash imo could all be looked into, i understand ash may be questioned, i just feel like he falls off so harshly the only mode he shines is disruption his 4 is honestly a waste of energy in most scenarios i love ash and to make him viable i don’t think he would require too much work.

And then there’s trin, i think she is the frame that is in the worst place atm, caliban and sevagoth could be looked at too.

Edited April 22 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[aminisi]

40 minutes ago, pwnSacrifice said:

I know you're talking about Banshee, but when you leave out the important bits, it's easy to make sound good.

But how about those damage buffs not working on actual important enemies, the total lack of in-built survivability, and multiple dead abilities?  If you like her great, but she's in need of help.

What are the important things?

Is it that Banshee is unsuitable for boss fights?
I believe that each frame has its strengths and weaknesses, and not all frames need to be good at boss fights. She can excel in most missions, such as Deep Archimedes or Steel Path Fissure missions.

No survivability at all?
There has never been a time when Banshee has had more survivability built into her kit than now. With shield gating, spamming abilities will prevent her from going down even if she's standing still. (Toxin damage is an exception, though.) Even if she accidentally goes down, if Sonar has been spammed enough, she can get back up in a few seconds with Last Gasp. In a squad, it may reduce the efficiency of annihilation, but solo builds with Silence + Gloom are also popular. In the first place, the idea that all frames should have easy survivability is a lack of diversity. In the current environment where Overguard is easily distributed, it's also fun to cover each other in a team.

Her abilities are dead?
Are you joking? Silence is a very popular ability. The power of Sonar needs no explanation. Sonic Boom's knockback is unassuming but useful for stopping demolishers or stripping armor. Even Sound Quake can sufficiently delay enemies in missions where you don't need to kill them, It's dangerous for a frame that can increase damage by 200 times per unit to have an area attack ability like Resonance Quake.

While it's true that it takes some getting used to and her usage rate is low, I would be happy if it were recognized that Banshee is very strong and unique in the current environment.

[PR1D3]

Caliban was hinted at the last stream of being looked over.

But...if I had to go on personal preference I would want Banshee too as well as Trinity to get looked over. Them having hard animations on all their abilities alone is painful. I've been pondering a lot of frames over and thinking about what would require someone to get a rework on the level of Hydroid and Inaros or for them to get an update like Grendel. Hell, Valkyr doesn't need a rework. She needs an update. I can see all her abilities working. Rip Line and Hysteria are honestly the only ones. Hysteria is just a stance update. The current one is what I would expect to see if I had gotten a 2nd grader and told him to pretend to be how he would think a t-rex that could do kung-fu would fight like.

[(PSN)NinjaBlade626]

9 hours ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

Ash imo could all be looked into, i understand ash may be questioned, i just feel like he falls off so harshly the only mode he shines is disruption his 4 is honestly a waste of energy in most scenarios i love ash and to make him viable i don’t think he would require too much work.

Now you got me interested, why do you think Ash? I agree, I just want to see your reasoning in detail.

[Aruquae]

19 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

The next one is likely to be Cali, as afaik, it's the only one that's been hinted at.  And I don't imagine DE doing more than one at a time.

Personally I'd put Chroma and  Trinity before Banshee.   Although in terms of predictions I think Banshee is more likely than Chroma due to usage and never having gotten a touch--up.

I’m guessing Chroma’s not going to get a rework anytime soon 

Simply because they already gave him an augment, and you know DE…

”Aight, gave him an augment. That should be fine for the next 4 years”

-DE, probably 

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)NinjaBlade626 said:

Now you got me interested, why do you think Ash? I agree, I just want to see your reasoning in detail.

I remember the day when ash with a zaw, and his 4 was absolutely ridiculous, i just feel like his kit just doesn’t hold up, i’ve tried a few different ways to play him, and the only way i feel like he can really be a beast is with wrathful advance, seeking in my opinion needs a little work, it doesn’t keep armor strip for long enough and doesn’t strip enough enemies, his 4 feels very lack luster it has to have a fair amount of strength and range to get a decent use, honestly i think he needs a minor tweak and he would he awesome.