Is Blast destined to be the worst element?

[Prof-Dante]

Magnetic, Gas, cold, electricity...all of these elements used to be really bad...but even the weakest of them, say Gas, I have been utilizing quite a lot, despite not having strong elemental bonuses on tough enemies.

only Blast went from mediocre to absolute worse element in the game.

Blast has a lot of potential, but unfortunately it's stuck with a status debuff, that we don't know if it works or not in this game.

What am I supposed to do knowing that 10 procs of blast give enemies 75% accuracy reduction? hurray? am I protected now? 

 

should Blast have better damage bonuses on enemy health? probably, or not...Gas's bonuses are mostly against regular infested, so it's not a big deal, but it's status effect is still very strong in my book, I use it most of the time.

so Blast, being an element for Grineer machinery (so these roller things you rarely encounter) and infested, is a really weak element on the damage side...but that could've been remedied if the status was worth it.

 

and now with Topaz shards nerfed to the ground for no reason, 5 whole shields on Blast damage KILL instead of the original condition, which required only a hit, Blast is super useless in every way.

 

I wouldn't want more damage, Blast has a defensive debuff, still make as such, but give us a worthwhile status effect, or rework Accuracy reduction so it's a unified effect and stop adding new words like dodge chance or hit chance.

 

[Pakaku]

Blast is still the "neutral" damage type AoE launchers, so until we separate that neutral damage from the heat-cold combo, Blast should be left alone

 

7 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

so Blast, being an element for Grineer machinery (so these roller things you rarely encounter) and infested, is a really weak element on the damage side...but that could've been remedied if the status was worth it.

Necramechs have a blast vulnerability

[Dreddeth]

I do miss the proc being ragdoll with intensity scaling off of damage, but I'm also the type to wistfully sigh in remembrance of the Corpus Space Program (pre-change Sonicor).

It's honestly fine being generic explosive damage, though. It doesn't really have to be good bc the elementals on a Blast weapon are going to do 95% of the work anyway.

[---Matiz753---]

58 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

only Blast went from mediocre to absolute worse element in the game

No.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 5 minutos, ---Matiz753--- dijo:

No.

Do you use blast on weapons that don't have it innately?

[Venus-Venera]

The days of “blast” are probably over. I used to camp with it against infested. and that for hours.

... but
... and a big BUT!
I played with Kuva Ogris. and that was before embarrassing ammunition ruination. The weapon didn't do the best damage even back then, but I happily played with it against all factions. even on SP.

Today you just have to take the few good weapons and pay attention to the appropriate status. because the mution runs out too quickly if you don't kill anything. And I don't feel like having an extremely confusing mele camera at all!

[Zakkhar]

7 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Do you use blast on weapons that don't have it innately?

Yes. At least plenty of people did it before this interactionn was somewhat limited, but I am sure still plenty run this setup anyway, because they invested into Shards:

• Regenerate +5 (+7.5) Shields when you kill an enemy with  Blast Damage.
  • Does not apply when Shield Gating occurs; players must wait for shields to recharge for the effect to apply.
  • Currently provides shields on every hit on an enemy with  Blast damage, despite the description of the shard stating "kill".

[_Anise_]

3 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

What am I supposed to do knowing that 10 procs of blast give enemies 75% accuracy reduction? hurray? am I protected now? 

3000 hours I had no idea it even did that . . . I would just straight up make it have them drop their weapons

3 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

and now with Topaz shards nerfed to the ground for no reason

no reason? with the first iteration you could mod a sentinel for blast and use a weapon that continuously fired without stopping and that would charge shields indefinitely giving you effective invulnerability, at least having it go on CD with shield gate makes sense

I had no idea they doubled down on the nerf to make it only be only on kill? (edit:seems the description is on kill but it still functions on damage?)

it is completely useless as an on kill effect and may as well not exist!?

I am in shock, are the devs really this out of touch? are they serious? you have to kill (see above) 50 enemies... with BLAST the worst damage type in the game to get only 375 shields back? and it does not work if your shields are empty xD who is ever going to build around that?

its like Djinns new useless passive quirk, it gains overshield when you collect energy orbs only WHILE ITS DEAD, meanwhile you can generate unlimited overshield with the melee mod and no one tell them about the Moa please.

 

Edited April 26 by _Anise_

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 2 horas, Zakkhar dijo:

Yes. At least plenty of people did it before this interactionn was somewhat limited, but I am sure still plenty run this setup anyway, because they invested into Shards:

• Regenerate +5 (+7.5) Shields when you kill an enemy with  Blast Damage.
  • Does not apply when Shield Gating occurs; players must wait for shields to recharge for the effect to apply.
  • Currently provides shields on every hit on an enemy with  Blast damage, despite the description of the shard stating "kill".

Wasn't that interaction fixed? If so, I still don't see any reason to use blast, even if the status effect depends on a shard to be useful rather than viral, slash, corrosive, heat, etc., which are very good statuses on their own.

Edited April 26 by --Leyenda-yight6

[C11H22O1]

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Yes. At least plenty of people did it before this interactionn was somewhat limited, but I am sure still plenty run this setup anyway, because they invested into Shards:

• Regenerate +5 (+7.5) Shields when you kill an enemy with  Blast Damage.
  • Does not apply when Shield Gating occurs; players must wait for shields to recharge for the effect to apply.
  • Currently provides shields on every hit on an enemy with  Blast damage, despite the description of the shard stating "kill".

Nah that shard doesn't make it good, blast is just poopoo, the status effect isn't great and there's barely any enemies weak to it

Edited April 26 by C11H22O1

[0_The_F00l]

I did have a recommendation for blast , which I think can work well in today's environment ,

I had recommended every blast status has a 50% chance to proc any IPS effect and thia chance increases with every stack of blast upto max 80%,

I would name the effect shrapnel.

Without something like this , blast is going to be completely unwanted.

[PublikDomain]

Blast should deal extra damage in an area proportional to the base damage of the shot. Because it's a blast. The concussion effect reducing enemy accuracy is fine and whatever but it's pretty much impossible to notice. Blast's core thing ought to be its blasts. Especially since getting Blast on most weapons means giving up both Viral and Heat, which are both very valuable. An AoE damage proc shouldn't be a problem either since Gas and Electric already do the same thing: extra AoE damage (just over time).

Blast (and Gas and a few others) should also be able to proc off of surfaces. If I shoot the floor with an explosive bullet it still ought to, y'know, explode. Or make a Gas cloud. Or arc and zap things.

Edited April 26 by PublikDomain

[Traumtulpe]

4 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Necramechs have a blast vulnerability

No they do not. Their "meat" takes +75% extra damage from Blast, but you'll do massively less damage than you would by using Radiation, which is what their "armor" is weak to. Meat damage resistances are irrelevant, it is only armor that matters.

[ReddyDisco]

I had a Blast with prenerf topaz shards

[Tiltskillet]

5 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

Blast has a lot of potential, but unfortunately it's stuck with a status debuff, that we don't know if it works or not in this game.

I'm 95% sure it works based on Sim testing. But that points to its main (but not only) problem:  it took ideal testing conditions  and I'm still only 95% certain.  Every other status effect is easy to verify in comparison.  And are visible to anybody paying casual attention in actual missions.

[SneakyErvin]

IMO Blast should have been the direct damage AoE elemental combo. Where each hit that lands adds an AoE explosion of 5m (or something) based on your modded blast damage similar to how melee influence works. It wouldnt benefit from multishot since it already benefits from multishots by being a status proc.

[PR1D3]

57 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm 95% sure it works based on Sim testing. But that points to its main (but not only) problem:  it took ideal testing conditions  and I'm still only 95% certain.  Every other status effect is easy to verify in comparison.  And are visible to anybody paying casual attention in actual missions.

I've been thinking about effects and honestly, it's not bad but I don't think it's appropriate in the current state for a few reason. One is status duration. Status duration is a funny stat. It's not worthless. Playing Lavos made me appreciate them a lot more. It's just that they're kind of low. Having an enemy accuracy debuff can be impactful especially on units that have hitscan weapons (the things I could say about the existence of hitscan weapons in the game XD). Making them miss actually is super impactful. If you've ever used something that gave butt loads of Evasion then not use it you can immediately tell the difference (Xaku and Titania). But 6 seconds at base is meh. A lot of weapons that do naturally inflict it staggers so they would be already CC for most of that time and when they're battle readied the effect would had fallen off. Honestly I think a lot of amplification and debuffing effects on the statuses should be removed and be set to only be apart of WF ability effects, mostly on dedicated Support Warframes. Cause:

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Blast should deal extra damage in an area proportional to the base damage of the shot. Because it's a blast. The concussion effect reducing enemy accuracy is fine and whatever but it's pretty much impossible to notice. Blast's core thing ought to be its blasts. Especially since getting Blast on most weapons means giving up both Viral and Heat, which are both very valuable. An AoE damage proc shouldn't be a problem either since Gas and Electric already do the same thing: extra AoE damage (just over time).

Blast (and Gas and a few others) should also be able to proc off of surfaces. If I shoot the floor with an explosive bullet it still ought to, y'know, explode. Or make a Gas cloud. Or arc and zap things.

43 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

IMO Blast should have been the direct damage AoE elemental combo. Where each hit that lands adds an AoE explosion of 5m (or something) based on your modded blast damage similar to how melee influence works. It wouldnt benefit from multishot since it already benefits from multishots by being a status proc.

If Blast was more like these it wouldn't as much of a meme.

 

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Making them miss actually is super impactful. If you've ever used something that gave butt loads of Evasion then not use it you can immediately tell the difference (Xaku and Titania).

It is, in aggregate.  Of course when they fail--and when you're on the receiving end of dozens of attacks per minute there are going to be failures--that's what we remember.  

One interesting thing I was aware of but had reinforced for me in testing Blast status:  most enemies are just comically bad at hitting us in the first place with precision attacks.    (And some not-so-precision attacks.) Especially if we're moving even slightly.

[UnstarPrime]

6 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

What am I supposed to do knowing that 10 procs of blast give enemies 75% accuracy reduction? hurray? am I protected now?

I mean, in theory a 75% accuracy loss for enemies is roughly equivalent to 75% DR.  So what you can do if you know that you've built up those stacks is similar to what you would do if you had instead built your frame with an additional 75% DR.  I wouldn't sneeze at that.

Some armchair theory-crafting suggests to me that Blast status would probably best complement a shield-gating build in content where enemies are hardy enough that CC (as opposed to killing) becomes worthwhile.  Quartering the frequency with which your shield gate is broken would certainly free up some bandwidth.

 

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm 95% sure it works based on Sim testing. But that points to its main (but not only) problem:  it took ideal testing conditions  and I'm still only 95% certain.  Every other status effect is easy to verify in comparison.  And are visible to anybody paying casual attention in actual missions.

This is a really good point, and it reminds me of one of my criticisms of Xaku's passive/Vast Untime: it's very difficult to experience the impact of passive evasion, because players don't get any meaningful feedback when attacks are evaded in Warframe.  And the same can be said for reduced enemy accuracy.

This also extends past Blast: many players don't know — and those who do can easily forget — that it's actually hard-coded that the higher your Warframe's velocity is, the less accurate enemies become.  Because again, it's hard to experience the concept of enemy shots being less accurate during gameplay.

For Blast, I honestly don't know what could make it feel better.  In RPG's there are dark cloud FX over the eyes of enemies when they are Blinded?  Perhaps adding some significant shaking to enemy weapons to make it clear that they're off-balance and clumsy?  It's a tricky challenge to overcome, especially on a budget.

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Blast should deal extra damage in an area proportional to the base damage of the shot. Because it's a blast.

All blast innate weapon already do that. And we just had one nerf because of that (AoE meta), you want another?

[Zakkhar]

5 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Wasn't that interaction fixed? If so, I still don't see any reason to use blast, even if the status effect depends on a shard to be useful rather than viral, slash, corrosive, heat, etc., which are very good statuses on their own.

It was not totally fixed, it just doesnt top you off during the shield gate. You are still getting shield back for hits, not kills.

[PR1D3]

LMFAO They said in the DevStream that there's going to be a Status Effect rework!

EDIT:

AND BLAST IS ON THE BOARD!!

Edited April 26 by PR1D3

[PublikDomain]

10 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

All blast innate weapon already do that.

Isn't that because Blast-innate weapons tend to already be AoE?

10 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

And we just had one nerf because of that (AoE meta), you want another?

Well like I said, Gas and Electric already do what I suggested for Blast. If it's fine dealing 0.5x Modded Base Damage over 6 ticks in 3m for Electric and Gas (up to 6m), then it should be fine dealing 1x Modded Base Damage over 1 tick in 1-6m (or however much).

Edited April 26 by PublikDomain

[Zakkhar]

In case you missed it: DE just annouced Blast rework on stream.

 

Edited April 26 by Zakkhar

[0_The_F00l]

Ooh the timing of this topic is very suitable,

I wonder what actual changes will come to blast.