Void2258 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 How about making sure modifiers are actually possible? For example this week we have the survival life support towers needing things killed near them. Ok, then how about making sure enemies will come to the towers? Even while completely holding fire and all grouped right next to the towers, enemies WILL NOT COME INTO RANGE, making the mission fail. Nothing anyone tried would get the enemies to close on the tower under any circumstances. They just ran circles outside of the tower radius in greater and greater numbers, standing JUST outside the viable radius and firing into it while ensuring mission failure. If there is nothing players can do to make the mission succeed, then why bother playing? The game has decided to waste our time by causing the mission to fail no matter what we do. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublikDomain Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Did it with a random recruit group, so it's definitely possible. Tell your teammates if they don't know, place WPs, and kill the bonus Necramechs to drop the timer further. EV Trin can kill the Necramechs really easily and the reduced Duration modifier helps with that. We chewed through three of them and only ended up needing four or five towers, and ended with like 70% LS. The towers also charge with vertical kills, so you can kill things below the towers if they're up on the second floor. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I had Pull on Grendel, a combo that made the life support challenge a non-issue. Pull's also nice in that it's cheap and duration-free. I imagine any of the grouping abilities would work, the more range the better. Personally I thought this week was the easiest we've had. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Sentiel Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Skill issue. Get a grouping ability and camp the towers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_The_F00l Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) We managed with a group of 3 with a single tower activation so towers are not even that essential. So its important to know the following things: 1) More players in squad = more enemies 2) Drop chance modifiers affect capsule drop rates, 3) Killing rogue nechramechs can shave off quite a bit of time but if you cant kill em then its a really annoying enemy to have (health leech nechramech is really tanky) 4) For enemies have OG , removing OG and having them group up by some means goes well, Edited May 13 by 0_The_F00l 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 The group up abilities in helminth still work under appreviated abilities so those will be solid choices for this week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewarette Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Teammates just need to not be total morons. I've not be lucky so far in matchmaking with everyone doing PUG standard survival strategy (e.g. wandering everywhere but where you're supposed to be), but it definitely looked "easy" otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwnSacrifice Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Placing a waypoint does wonders. Both weeks with this mutator, as soon as I put down a WP everyone grouped up and camped the tower. Definitely easier than Hostile Support. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void2258 Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 9 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said: Skill issue. Get a grouping ability and camp the towers. You can't exactly do anything about if you do or don;t have a pull because randomizer. So the mission being possible can't depend on you overriding the AI's bad behavior in this way. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void2258 Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 (edited) 11 hours ago, PublikDomain said: Did it with a random recruit group, so it's definitely possible. Tell your teammates if they don't know, place WPs, and kill the bonus Necramechs to drop the timer further. EV Trin can kill the Necramechs really easily and the reduced Duration modifier helps with that. We chewed through three of them and only ended up needing four or five towers, and ended with like 70% LS. The towers also charge with vertical kills, so you can kill things below the towers if they're up on the second floor. I never said it's not possible. I said it CAN fail through no fault of the players simply because of the AI behavior and the size of the collection zone. If the AI behaves or your randomizer gave you things that can pull the enemy into the zone, then it's entirely possible (it was fine last week for me). But if it CAN fail because of these factors, which are entirely out of player control, then that is a problem and needs to be fixed. You shouldn't lose your run because the mission itself decided to induce failure. Edited May 13 by Void2258 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 vor 7 Minuten schrieb Void2258: You can't exactly do anything about if you do or don;t have a pull because randomizer. So the mission being possible can't depend on you overriding the AI's bad behavior in this way. Pull, Larva and Airburst are helminth abilities. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void2258 Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 To repeat because I do not think people registered: This was NOT a team issue. All 4 people were standing on the tower. The AI simply all decided to walk in circles outside the zone no matter what anyone did (our randomizes didn't give any frames with pulls, and also overguard prevented this anyway). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveN9ne Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) If you do not want to use helminth, Nautilus with Cordon is mvp there. I would also like to add that if playing solo the spawn rate is absolute trash. If towers are like 100+ meters away, enemies that spawned on the first location will take like 2 minutes to walk to the 2nd tower, making the mission fail more often than not. It is very obvious they have not playtested this mode in the slightest. Edited May 13 by FiveN9ne 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, Drachnyn said: Pull, Larva and Airburst are helminth abilities. Plus Coil Horizon. 59 minutes ago, FiveN9ne said: If you do not want to use helminth, Nautilus with Cordon is mvp there. Good call! Also Vazarin Void Snare, since there was no operator restriction this week. Limited range, but I think good enough to get the job done. I suppose Magus Anomaly too, although I prefer Void Snare. There are at least a few more options too, but the ones I can think of seem clunky or randomizer dependent. And I feel like anybody doing DA should have Void Snare available, even if "should" is not the same as "would". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Sentiel Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I have originally assumed this entire complaint is a skill issue, however, after doing this week's EDA myself my assumption turned into conviction. I now know for a fact this is a skill issue. This week's EDA was the easiest yet even though I got Powerless and Abbreviated Abilities. Some people are simply not ready for EDA and can't admit it. Perhaps spending more time with your arsenal preparing and/or looking for a squad would be a better time investment than complaining here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewarette Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 17 hours ago, Void2258 said: You can't exactly do anything about if you do or don;t have a pull because randomizer. So the mission being possible can't depend on you overriding the AI's bad behavior in this way. I did it yesterday, twice (first time we "failed" the survival during the last minute because the host left after dying), both times without any pull ability. That's definitely a skill issue, or someone misusing his abilities (or poorly picked his warframe). In fact the same happens with Netracell's infamous circle. People don't understand that some abilities are detrimental to the objective, such as Dante's birds (drawing aggro two thousand miles away), Saryn Spores killing stuff on another planet, or many, many CC abilities locking enemies in place far away. It can be pets as well, so I recommend to use Sentinels instead. If you really can't do it this way, just use one of the billions pull techniques that were listed by other comrades above and it'll become easy af. In addition to all that, if enemies don't want to come, you should maybe not camp on the tower, but hide somewhere breaking the LoS to force them in. Edited May 14 by Chewarette 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quxier Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 On 2024-05-13 at 2:49 AM, Void2258 said: If there is nothing players can do to make the mission succeed, then why bother playing? The game has decided to waste our time by causing the mission to fail no matter what we do. How about... killing? I got... tired of randomness so I've picked Dante + corrosive shard + K.nukor. We have done that mission without activating single Life support. We get them into circle just fine. On 2024-05-13 at 2:49 AM, Void2258 said: Even while completely holding fire and all grouped right next to the towers, enemies WILL NOT COME INTO RANGE, Sounds like bug. Our enemies were more touchy and wanna hug us. Dunno... maybe hug&kiss Dante myself provoked them. :3 On 2024-05-13 at 5:58 AM, Tiltskillet said: I had Pull on Grendel, a combo that made the life support challenge a non-issue. Pull's also nice in that it's cheap and duration-free. I imagine any of the grouping abilities would work, the more range the better. Personally I thought this week was the easiest we've had. +1 *inaros enters the chat*: I'm The Carrier! ps. for players that know only old Inaros, no, it's not joke! 19 hours ago, Void2258 said: On 2024-05-13 at 7:15 AM, (PSN)Sentiel said: Skill issue. Get a grouping ability and camp the towers. You can't exactly do anything about if you do or don;t have a pull because randomizer. So the mission being possible can't depend on you overriding the AI's bad behavior in this way. Vazarin have "pull". One arcane pulls enemeis towards you (slow pull but still). 19 hours ago, Void2258 said: To repeat because I do not think people registered: This was NOT a team issue. All 4 people were standing on the tower. The AI simply all decided to walk in circles outside the zone no matter what anyone did (our randomizes didn't give any frames with pulls, and also overguard prevented this anyway). Have you tried attacking a little to Agrro them? 19 hours ago, FiveN9ne said: If you do not want to use helminth, Nautilus with Cordon is mvp there. I would also like to add that if playing solo the spawn rate is absolute trash. If towers are like 100+ meters away, enemies that spawned on the first location will take like 2 minutes to walk to the 2nd tower, making the mission fail more often than not. It is very obvious they have not playtested this mode in the slightest. It's just another "solo? I don't care" like void fissures. 2 hours ago, Chewarette said: In fact the same happens with Netracell's infamous circle. People don't understand that some abilities are detrimental to the objective, such as Dante's birds (drawing aggro two thousand miles away), Saryn Spores killing stuff on another planet, or many, many CC abilities locking enemies in place far away. It can be pets as well, so I recommend to use Sentinels instead. While they may be detrimental, we have no problem getting enemies into "tower zone". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTunnerX Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 I agree with the OP. The enemy behavior is clearly badly made and you cannot just dismiss it as "skill issue" or "get pull" kind of thing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaxxian Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 All the people who propose to use CC abilities are aware that one day this same modifier will arrive mixed with the one that grants OG to all enemies, right? Those enemies should get in tower range without needing to use CC for that same reason. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewarette Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, Gaxxian said: All the people who propose to use CC abilities are aware that one day this same modifier will arrive mixed with the one that grants OG to all enemies, right? Those enemies should get in tower range without needing to use CC for that same reason. Breaking the LoS works wonders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Gaxxian: All the people who propose to use CC abilities are aware that one day this same modifier will arrive mixed with the one that grants OG to all enemies, right? Those enemies should get in tower range without needing to use CC for that same reason. Step 1: attack to remove overguard. Step 2: pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void2258 Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, Drachnyn said: Step 1: attack to remove overguard. Step 2: pull. Step 1: attack to remove overguard. Step 2: enemy dies to DoT on it from removing the overguard 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodian87 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 10 minutes ago, Void2258 said: Step 1: attack to remove overguard. Step 2: enemy dies to DoT on it from removing the overguard Step 0.5: Lure enemies into tower radius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 vor einer Stunde schrieb Void2258: Step 1: attack to remove overguard. Step 2: enemy dies to DoT on it from removing the overguard If you kill enemies that quickly then you'll have no problem keeping up life support just by killing enemies and ignoring the towers entirely. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void2258 Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Drachnyn said: If you kill enemies that quickly then you'll have no problem keeping up life support just by killing enemies and ignoring the towers entirely. Assumes that drops are plentiful enough which they were not. Again not assured to be possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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