It's been 10 years now , we deserve getting some clean closures.

[0_The_F00l]

This is not related to anything specific , but considering the state of the games lore overall.

I have a distinct feeling that DE doesn't really have any long term story goals planned at just picks up random tropes they feel like and tries making a mosaic ,even if the pieces don't fit together well 

As of now the story has branched off in so many directions with no continuity that one would think a tree exploded.

Cool as some of these stories are ,they leave so many questions that remain unanswered and are never revisited. 

I really really want DE to start tying off the many loose ends and have a proper coherent and complete story ,

Closing individual chapters does not mean the story is over , it just lets you focus on the new one with a clean state.

[Raarsi]

I think given what we've seen of the story for Jade Shadows, they might be trying to do that to some extent (at least for the Stalker).  I suppose such a hypothesis will be tested with Warframe 1999 in regards to Entrati and whatever he had cooking.

How I've seen the story has always been pre-TNW and post-TNW, with pre-TNW appearing to focus more on worldbuilding and post-TNW trying to establish narratives that each help provide either an answer to something from pre-TNW or some sort of bread crumb that can be used to push forward a future narrative or a future chapter.  It's likely not the best approach (especially with Duviri Paradox), but it hasn't seemed to be the worst either.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Raarsi said:

I think given what we've seen of the story for Jade Shadows, they might be trying to do that to some extent (at least for the Stalker).  I suppose such a hypothesis will be tested with Warframe 1999 in regards to Entrati and whatever he had cooking.

How I've seen the story has always been pre-TNW and post-TNW, with pre-TNW appearing to focus more on worldbuilding and post-TNW trying to establish narratives that each help provide either an answer to something from pre-TNW or some sort of bread crumb that can be used to push forward a future narrative or a future chapter.  It's likely not the best approach (especially with Duviri Paradox), but it hasn't seemed to be the worst either.

The problem is that the bread crumbs don't go anywhere beyond more breadcrumbs.

There's enough breadcrumbs to feed a duck for a lifetime (you shouldn't feed ducks exclusively bread irl ).

[Oreades]

I don't think it's random, I've frequently joked with friends that you can tell what games the devs have been playing in their off time based on the content that releases for Warframe lol

[.Diabrete.]

I get what you're saying, and i don't really disagree, but in a way this keeps the door open. Also not a lore kind of guy so i dont really care.

[Loza03]

I think there are a few stories that have been tied off. DE just isn't very good at actually confirming they are tied (or want to leave them open enough to bring them back if they want to).

For example: Tyl Regor. The most recent time he showed up was in Citrine's Last Wish. Up until that point I was convinced he was dead, and I wouldn't be entirely shocked if in some kind of internal timeline he is by the 'modern day' of Warframe.

 

Actually, that's something that's desperately needed. We need a clear, actual definition of what order events happen in. Even if it's 'roughly simultaneously, could happen in any order based on individual playthrough' for some of them. Does Deimos reappear when it does in the progression order? Relatively early in an individual player's storyline, or was it chronologically occurring roughly in the update order? Fortuna was one of the first time a non-Lotus mission control was a regular thing, because it was added to the game not long after Apostasy prologue. But is that canon? Did the Tenno canonically reach Fortuna after Apostasy, or is that earlier and Lotus just trusts Eudico enough to act as mission control?

[ominumi]

I really like this storytelling approach DE has. DE can laser focus on a particular aspect of the universe they build. Or start a new thread that gets left dangling for years to come (cough Arlo cough). More than anything, I think DE is just time constrained.  They want to do a whole lot more but unable to because of reasons. Seeing purple Lotus for two years was not pleasant. 

[OniDax]

15 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This is not related to anything specific , but considering the state of the games lore overall.

I have a distinct feeling that DE doesn't really have any long term story goals planned at just picks up random tropes they feel like and tries making a mosaic ,even if the pieces don't fit together well 

As of now the story has branched off in so many directions with no continuity that one would think a tree exploded.

Cool as some of these stories are ,they leave so many questions that remain unanswered and are never revisited. 

I really really want DE to start tying off the many loose ends and have a proper coherent and complete story ,

Closing individual chapters does not mean the story is over , it just lets you focus on the new one with a clean state.

Agree 100%.

9 hours ago, Raarsi said:

I think given what we've seen of the story for Jade Shadows, they might be trying to do that to some extent (at least for the Stalker).  I suppose such a hypothesis will be tested with Warframe 1999 in regards to Entrati and whatever he had cooking.

How I've seen the story has always been pre-TNW and post-TNW, with pre-TNW appearing to focus more on worldbuilding and post-TNW trying to establish narratives that each help provide either an answer to something from pre-TNW or some sort of bread crumb that can be used to push forward a future narrative or a future chapter.  It's likely not the best approach (especially with Duviri Paradox), but it hasn't seemed to be the worst either.

DE isn't trying to do that, though. DE has always approached story this way. They approach content development this way: 

5 hours ago, Oreades said:

I don't think it's random, I've frequently joked with friends that you can tell what games the devs have been playing in their off time based on the content that releases for Warframe lol

They often draw their influence from some other game that's come out and that is getting attention. And by the time their content releases, that the attention for that source of inspiration has passed. For example, look at the inspiration for Lunaro, the initial inspiration for Duviri (the tone and music of the reveal trailer), the inspiration for the Sanctum. That's why it feels random: they're not naturally progressing the story based on previous story developments. They're latching on to other references or basic ideas and crafting basic, surface-level stories around those references and ideas. That's why this quest doesn't actually explore the backstories of Stalker and Jade in any depth. That's why the focus is on 

Spoiler

the act of childbirth.

That's why Duviri doesn't connect to the Zariman or its characters in any meaningful way, nor does it naturally lead to the Drifter's introduction in The New War. That's why the New War skips over the war part. That's why Stalker, the loyal Orokin low guardian who avenges Grineer, Corpus, and Infested bosses, is present working for his enemy, Hunhow, in The Second Dream and is absent in The War Within, and why Teshin, seemingly pro-Orokin warrior whose whole purpose pre-TSD is preparing for the Sentient return, is absent from The Second Dream but present in The War Within serving the Queens. That's why, despite the original lore stating the Warframes were built around the Tenno, TSD introduced the Operators, but yet now, the Warframes have their own personalities and the Operators seemingly have no influence over the Warframe personality at all. That's why Jade Shadows now treats the Warframes as a separate endangered species (which Stalker now hates, despite previously hating the Tenno, not Warframes) and doesn't know whether to consider Stalker a Warframe or not. That's why they keep bringing back Alad V even though in his very first boss fight, we kill him. That's why the split between the Corpus and Parvos went nowhere and despite him offering us and Solaris a seat at his table, he turned into another typical villain. That's why we still have not seen the day/night the Tenno killed the Orokin or any specificity regarding how long that process took (the cinematic trailer suggests it was a fully blown civil war after that, but that's not confirmed canon).

8 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

The problem is that the bread crumbs don't go anywhere beyond more breadcrumbs.

There's enough breadcrumbs to feed a duck for a lifetime (you shouldn't feed ducks exclusively bread irl ).

Breadcrumbs that don't even lead to more breadcrumbs. Different sets of breadcrumbs that lead nowhere. The more outlandish the story, the more it works to distract most players from the messy, inconsistent lore.

4 hours ago, ominumi said:

I really like this storytelling approach DE has. DE can laser focus on a particular aspect of the universe they build. Or start a new thread that gets left dangling for years to come (cough Arlo cough). More than anything, I think DE is just time constrained.  They want to do a whole lot more but unable to because of reasons. Seeing purple Lotus for two years was not pleasant. 

I really don't like this storytelling approach because it doesn't build on the stories they've told in the past. And there's no indication they want to do a whole lot more. They do as little as possible when it comes to story. That's why there are new threads that are just dangling for years. It's not about time constraint. It's about how they approach content development and how they create random new stories that don't connect to their previous stories.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I think there are a few stories that have been tied off. DE just isn't very good at actually confirming they are tied (or want to leave them open enough to bring them back if they want to).

For example: Tyl Regor. The most recent time he showed up was in Citrine's Last Wish. Up until that point I was convinced he was dead, and I wouldn't be entirely shocked if in some kind of internal timeline he is by the 'modern day' of Warframe.

 

Actually, that's something that's desperately needed. We need a clear, actual definition of what order events happen in. Even if it's 'roughly simultaneously, could happen in any order based on individual playthrough' for some of them. Does Deimos reappear when it does in the progression order? Relatively early in an individual player's storyline, or was it chronologically occurring roughly in the update order? Fortuna was one of the first time a non-Lotus mission control was a regular thing, because it was added to the game not long after Apostasy prologue. But is that canon? Did the Tenno canonically reach Fortuna after Apostasy, or is that earlier and Lotus just trusts Eudico enough to act as mission control?

No one wants to say DE isn't very good at something (criticizing DE is taboo here), but they're not very good at consistency in storytelling and they're not very good at telling deep stories. They can add the elements people expect to be emotional (and some will react to it the way they're expected to react - and will make sure everyone knows about it too), but their approach to storytelling is too random and doesn't build on what has come before.

Last point. A quote from Warframe: The Stalker: A Warframe Retrospective:

Quote

Warframe's latest Cinematic Quest picks up the Stalker's story after the events of The New War, and at last delves into his tragic, personal history. Perhaps for the first time his hatred and animosity might make some sense, and his personal struggles become clear.

After Jade Shadows, his hatred and animosity for the Tenno - I mean, Warframes - make even less sense.

Edited June 22 by OniDax

[Raarsi]

10 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

The problem is that the bread crumbs don't go anywhere beyond more breadcrumbs.

There's enough breadcrumbs to feed a duck for a lifetime (you shouldn't feed ducks exclusively bread irl ).

Sometimes a trail requires more bread crumbs, especially when that trail is a whole universe you're trying to weave into something coherent at both the macro levels of planets, factions and overarching narrative AND micro levels of character stories.

6 hours ago, ominumi said:

More than anything, I think DE is just time constrained.  They want to do a whole lot more but unable to because of reasons. Seeing purple Lotus for two years was not pleasant. 

I'm also thinking this is another factor, especially when trying to determine which story threads deserve more immediate development not just for telling the story or moving it forward, but also for what newer or bigger stories could bring in that extra bump in sales to keep the development going.

Purple Lotus I think is an outstanding example of just how much of a time constraint devs have as well.

[trst]

Way I see it there's two "issues" at play.

First that most players don't care about the story but at the same time would still get tired of the same old things getting thrown at us. Like if the story stayed centered around Grineer vs Corpus vs Infested and continued expanding those players likely would have gotten bored (something the community regularly proves they're good at doing). Especially considering the breakneck pace the game had to be developed at in the beginning. And by the time we did start getting some actual story we already had years of just Grineer vs Corpus vs Infested.

And the second is that leaving things open ended leaves more room for speculation. While this by design prevents proper closure in most cases it does drive engagement by allowing room for players to argue over different interpretations of events, theory crafting, and general argumentation over it. Just look at how much is going on over Jade's story even though it's a more open and shut story than we're used to.

In other words: DE is running a business that relies on regular engagement and is using the story to aid in that.

[0_The_F00l]

4 hours ago, Raarsi said:

Sometimes a trail requires more bread crumbs, especially when that trail is a whole universe you're trying to weave into something coherent at both the macro levels of planets, factions and overarching narrative AND micro levels of character stories.

I will have to partially disagree with this , breadcrumbs and foreshadowing cannot be left unattended indefinitely, otherwise as per their namesake they start getting stale or fade away. 

Things can be made coherent from the start and still have mystery , there is no need to keep things confusing with every iteration. 

Fortunas quest line for example , is my reference point. It is executed very well (including characters , pacing and motivations) there is enough intrigue and it ends satisfactorily (from a atory standpoint) but still leaves things sufficiently open to continue on if needed. It is one chapter in a story , but it is closed. New events can happen there with the past events being acknowledged.

Cetus on the other hand has quite a few different lore events and while some got you answers ,most left you asking for more.

One of the most confusing lore events would be Alad V , depending on when and how you arrive at the game.

[OniDax]

6 hours ago, trst said:

Way I see it there's two "issues" at play.

First that most players don't care about the story but at the same time would still get tired of the same old things getting thrown at us. Like if the story stayed centered around Grineer vs Corpus vs Infested and continued expanding those players likely would have gotten bored (something the community regularly proves they're good at doing). Especially considering the breakneck pace the game had to be developed at in the beginning. And by the time we did start getting some actual story we already had years of just Grineer vs Corpus vs Infested.

And the second is that leaving things open ended leaves more room for speculation. While this by design prevents proper closure in most cases it does drive engagement by allowing room for players to argue over different interpretations of events, theory crafting, and general argumentation over it. Just look at how much is going on over Jade's story even though it's a more open and shut story than we're used to.

In other words: DE is running a business that relies on regular engagement and is using the story to aid in that.

I don't think their approach to storytelling is doing them any favors. It's not garnering them any attention outside of the WF community, it's not winning any awards, it's not even the most important aspect of the game to a lot of players. Deeper, more character-focused, more consistent, well-fleshed out storytelling - bringing it up to the level of the industry leaders - would likely help them bring more attention to Warframe from outside the WF user base, might one day result in them winning some awards, and ultimately bring in more players, more revenue, more support for the game. Same goes for improving their core gameplay systems and bringing them up to the level of the industry leaders.

If this was really driven by what's the best business decision, then we'd see improvements across all of Warframe. It's still a business decision, not driven by what will result in the most success but what will allow them to survive. And the current level they're at is enough to keep the majority of the WF community satisfied. In other words, they approach story the way they do because they know you won't ever expect more of them. You're content with Warframe's current level and don't care for Warframe being at a higher level, so they're content doing what they need to do to keep you interested. They stopped releasing their financial reports after Tencent took over, but they were barely getting by when Leyou was in charge so I assume they're still doing good enough to survive. So it's ok, but it could be better.

Edited June 23 by OniDax

[CephalonCarnage]

I think they tried, TNW was to close the old story and start the new Elden Duviri based one. I think they grand plans for this - as you could see from the mass advertising campaign and the 7 islands (literal content islands) that appear to have been planned, and the way that brand new players could have chosen to go straight to Duviri instead of playing "legacy" warframe.

And in that, you see the problem, everything that has come out since Duviri wasn;t the massive success they expected, has been placeholder type content.

the only way I feel that they could rescue this situation is to effectively retcon the whole TNW out and continue the story from when Ballas hands us the paracesis. ie bring us the war. Make Natah the big bad enemy and have us fight a new enemy set that are mostly sentient based. It coudl be dione, it could be awesome, it could continue the story of how the Orokin were intending sentients and Tau to be a thing and how it all fell apart to bite them in the bum, along with how the tenno turned out to become murder machines of both the Orokin and the origin system afterwards. Plus we get a damned war too that could also allow DE to buff/nerf/whatever so the game stops being the running simulator it has turned into.

Alad V can be explained if he's cloned himself. We killed Valkyr Alad, infested Alad and still had a chat with Ropalolyst Alad. There's probably more of them out there, that could be turned into a lot of fun.

[spider_enigma]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

I think they tried, TNW was to close the old story and start the new Elden Duviri based one. I think they grand plans for this - as you could see from the mass advertising campaign and the 7 islands (literal content islands) that appear to have been planned, and the way that brand new players could have chosen to go straight to Duviri instead of playing "legacy" warframe.

And in that, you see the problem, everything that has come out since Duviri wasn;t the massive success they expected, has been placeholder type content.

the only way I feel that they could rescue this situation is to effectively retcon the whole TNW out and continue the story from when Ballas hands us the paracesis. ie bring us the war. Make Natah the big bad enemy and have us fight a new enemy set that are mostly sentient based. It coudl be dione, it could be awesome, it could continue the story of how the Orokin were intending sentients and Tau to be a thing and how it all fell apart to bite them in the bum, along with how the tenno turned out to become murder machines of both the Orokin and the origin system afterwards. Plus we get a damned war too that could also allow DE to buff/nerf/whatever so the game stops being the running simulator it has turned into.

Alad V can be explained if he's cloned himself. We killed Valkyr Alad, infested Alad and still had a chat with Ropalolyst Alad. There's probably more of them out there, that could be turned into a lot of fun.

the new war isnt over tho, its just the start, and hey are still working on the sentient planet unless we are told otherwise

[Famecans]

On 2024-06-22 at 8:44 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

The problem is that the bread crumbs don't go anywhere beyond more breadcrumbs.

There's enough breadcrumbs to feed a duck for a lifetime (you shouldn't feed ducks exclusively bread irl).

Heavy Facts ☝

[0_The_F00l]

On 2024-06-23 at 4:24 AM, trst said:

 Just look at how much is going on over Jade's story even though it's a more open and shut story than we're used to.

I dont think open and shut means what you think it means, There are so so so many questions in that quest that remain unanswered.

5 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

I think they tried, TNW was to close the old story and start the new Elden Duviri based one. I think they grand plans for this - as you could see from the mass advertising campaign and the 7 islands (literal content islands) that appear to have been planned, and the way that brand new players could have chosen to go straight to Duviri instead of playing "legacy" warframe.

And in that, you see the problem, everything that has come out since Duviri wasn;t the massive success they expected, has been placeholder type content.

the only way I feel that they could rescue this situation is to effectively retcon the whole TNW out and continue the story from when Ballas hands us the paracesis. ie bring us the war. Make Natah the big bad enemy and have us fight a new enemy set that are mostly sentient based. It coudl be dione, it could be awesome, it could continue the story of how the Orokin were intending sentients and Tau to be a thing and how it all fell apart to bite them in the bum, along with how the tenno turned out to become murder machines of both the Orokin and the origin system afterwards. Plus we get a damned war too that could also allow DE to buff/nerf/whatever so the game stops being the running simulator it has turned into.

I have my doubts on any "Grand Plans" DE has , i genuinely believe DE as an organisation is like a kid with ADHD , they can not stick to any coherent linear plan.

And in my opinion , they dont need to make grand plans , they can stick to single chapters at a time that are loosely tied to the main plot (i say plot loosely as well :D ) as long as they are consistent and complete by themselves.

While DE is no stranger to Retconning , i dont think that is needed. We already have time travel and ghosts and false memory imprints. You could use some of that to tell stories of the past to tie things off.

5 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Alad V can be explained if he's cloned himself. We killed Valkyr Alad, infested Alad and still had a chat with Ropalolyst Alad. There's probably more of them out there, that could be turned into a lot of fun.

That is the most easy explanation , true. But if you were around that far back we actually cured the infested Alad and helped him on a few mercenary activities on a certain during a certain gradivus dilemma. You would be lost on some of the interactions with Tyl regor if you dont have that reference.

 

[CephalonCarnage]

9 hours ago, spider_enigma said:

the new war isnt over tho, its just the start, and hey are still working on the sentient planet unless we are told otherwise

another disconnected content island, I'll wager.

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

While DE is no stranger to Retconning , i dont think that is needed. We already have time travel and ghosts and false memory imprints. You could use some of that to tell stories of the past to tie things off

But as we saw with the way Duviri was taken up, nobody wants things tied off, they want it to continue. I want chapter 2 of the warframe story, The Sentients Strike Back, followed by chapter 3 the Rise of the Tenno. I don't want a prequel or a sequel trilogy!

[0_The_F00l]

9 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

But as we saw with the way Duviri was taken up, nobody wants things tied off, they want it to continue. I want chapter 2 of the warframe story, The Sentients Strike Back, followed by chapter 3 the Rise of the Tenno. I don't want a prequel or a sequel trilogy!

I don't understand your statement , 

Prequels and sequels are a continuation of the story. And Duviri isn't tied off.

Chapters don't need to go in a linear timeline though, so I don't particularly mind prequels or sequels.

[Loza03]

11 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

 

And in that, you see the problem, everything that has come out since Duviri wasn;t the massive success they expected, has been placeholder type content.

...

No it hasn't?

It's the typical content we expect to receive between big Tennocon updates. Smaller scale updates that keep the game's content cycle going, keep adding new frames and weapons to play with and then the smaller 'Echoes of' update that adds a second wave to most of the bigger stuff.

Jade Shadows is roughly comparable to the Sacrifice in terms of the amount of content released, for example. 

 

Warframe's release cycle is, roughly speaking, three or four 'big' updates a year. One of which is the Tennocon update - autumn or early winter. The big Tennocon update typically comes with a major gameplay shake up. These are your Plains, Fortuna and Deimos updates. The rest are still 'big' in that they come with things like new areas, mission types, and several new weapons or a quest, but are purely core warframe content. And after each of these updates, we usually recieve an 'Echoes of' update (names after the 'Echoes of War', but this trend has existed before), which typically comes with another new frame, some expansion onto the core gameplay loop of that update, but is considerably smaller. And sometimes we get a small update which just brings a new quest and/or a new gamemode or gamemode variant, often as the small update before Tennocon itself, to keep us tided over.

Duviri may or may not receive more story significance later. Or it already has had its story moment, being a casualty of the devteam switchover, and just served as a backstory for the Drifter. That's not to say I'm necessarily enamoured with that story, but that's how it goes. Its 'Echoes' update was Kullervo. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Hmm...

It's been 10 years...

Something you could be missing is that the plans for the story could be for it to take 10 more ^^

[(PSN)robotwars7]

IMO there's 3 story threads that I'm hoping will come to fruition, then a decent conclusion.

the first is Albrecht's fight against Wally:

Spoiler

this is arguably the most pressing issue currently, as Wally is a threat to basically all existence. Albrecht is also seeking redemption for neglecting his family and doing terrible things in the name of science and his desperation to stop Wally, which includes the Cavia: there's the relationship between him and Loid, Tagfer's desire for vengeance over the death of Minn, and the fact that the Entrati family themselves have no idea that Albrecht and human Loid are still alive, or that there's a massive network of underground labs and a Sanctum of Talking animals right below them, nor are they aware of the threat wally poses.

given how much emphasis there is on the family being kept in the dark, I think it's only a matter of time before they learn the truth, and then things will start getting interesting. I also wonder if Albrecht will sacrifice himself to stop Wally, and exactly what role the 1999 characters, Arthur and Aoi will play.

the second is the Corpus:

Spoiler

after deadlock protocol, it became clear that Parvos and Nef Anyo are at odds with each other, Parvos demands control of the entire Corpus and Nef will not give up his power, the result of this impasse would be an internal conflict between the two leaders, a "Corpus Civil war" if you will. after seeing him in both Lab Disruption and the new Ascension game mode, Parvos now seems to have been relegated to being more of a cartoon villain, who wants a particular macguffin (Albrecht's relics, Jade's motes) and has to be stopped. IMO his potential is kinda being wasted as he is clearly capable of being an intelligent, cunning and ruthless villain when needed. 

this also puts the other corpus leading figures like Alad in a unique position: if a war did breakc out, who would he side with? would he play both sides? would he even bother getting involved? I know we've seen quite a lot of lad already over the years, but with his Amalgams, he might be able to turn the tide of the Corpus war in favour of the side he allies with. either way, there's only room for one true ruler of the Corpus. and then of course there's us; I'd imagine it could be an Operation similar to Tubemen of Regor, where the community has to choose who to side with, either Nef or Parvos. siding with Nef seems like it would put us at odds with the Solaris though, while siding with Parvos also seems kinda bad given his more recent exploits. it would truly be a "lesser of two evils" situation with no good guys, and whoever comes out on top is the de-facto leader of the Corpus from that moment forward.

the third is Narmer and the Sentients:

Spoiler

after the travesty of the New War, we still don't have a place to permanently fight sentients, but after Jade Shadows, it appears the most terrifying Sentient still alive, Hunhow, has kinda lost his mojo as an all-conquering terror of the stars. though he remains stuck in the ocean depths, he always retained his spirit, his desire to conquer the Tenno and hopefully one day start a new Sentient conquest.. now though, he is too depressed because Stalker has moved out and seeing a birth for the first time has got him wondering if it would even be worth it. Narmer probably sounded like a great idea that he was on board with until it became apparent that Natah was in danger, and Erra ended up being Ballas' puppet - despite the fact that leading up to New War Ballas is literally on a leash being treated as a disfigured pet, a complete role-reversal - and Ballas would ultimatey undo the results of the Old War in his favour. at that point it's clear Ballas must be stopped, queue the temporary alliance with the Drifter.

Pazuul and the Archons are apparently still around and need to be dealt with, both to erase Narmer and provide closure for Erra, who is once again being used. I think Hunhow would be willign to ally with us again to finally end the Narmer threat, and maybe, just maybe, we might get to go to Tau, though it's unclear whether or not the Sentients over there are still war-hungry. the only one who might get them to see reason is Hunhow, but he's stuck on Uranus, so it'd be a whole arc of freeing Hunhow, hoping he won't go back to his old ways, and then getting him to tell the Sentients on Tau to chill the F out in order to avoid yet another war against the Sentients.

I definitely think DE need to start closing a few books now. even if it means taking a narrative hiatus until they can come up with something coherent and appropriate, a genuine closure to the many subplots we have going on, I'd be absolutely fine with that. once these arcs conclude, then DE can create new ones without the story feeling bloated and somewhat confusing like it is now.

 

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Duviri may or may not receive more story significance later.

I'd be very surprised if it didn't, for one simple reason: The Murmur enemies added with Whispers in the Walls are mostly melee-focused, several having "spells" that they have to stay in place to cast, and there isn't a single untelegraphed hitscan ranged attack among them.

In other words, they're a perfect fit for Duviri's combat system, to the point where it feels like they were deliberately designed with it in mind.

Given that the Scholar's Landing lore entry explicitly states that Duviri will be important later (perhaps as another front in the conflict against the Indifference) and the presence of the Stranger (all but explicitly stated to be an avatar of the Man in the Wall) in the world itself, I would not be surprised if a future update has us return to Duviri to find it under attack from the Murmur.

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Its 'Echoes' update was Kullervo.

Duviri actually got two "Echoes" updates. One bore the Echoes moniker, with The Seven Crimes of Kullervo being the other.

Edited June 24 by Corvid

[0_The_F00l]

47 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Hmm...

It's been 10 years...

Something you could be missing is that the plans for the story could be for it to take 10 more ^^

You really think DE is sitting on a story that they took 10 years to tell?

The more likely scenario is that there is no real plan beyond the next PA ,

13 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

IMO there's 3 story threads that I'm hoping will come to fruition, then a decent conclusion.

the first is Albrecht's fight against Wally:

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this is arguably the most pressing issue currently, as Wally is a threat to basically all existence. Albrecht is also seeking redemption for neglecting his family and doing terrible things in the name of science and his desperation to stop Wally, which includes the Cavia: there's the relationship between him and Loid, Tagfer's desire for vengeance over the death of Minn, and the fact that the Entrati family themselves have no idea that Albrecht and human Loid are still alive, or that there's a massive network of underground labs and a Sanctum of Talking animals right below them, nor are they aware of the threat wally poses.

given how much emphasis there is on the family being kept in the dark, I think it's only a matter of time before they learn the truth, and then things will start getting interesting. I also wonder if Albrecht will sacrifice himself to stop Wally, and exactly what role the 1999 characters, Arthur and Aoi will play.

the second is the Corpus:

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after deadlock protocol, it became clear that Parvos and Nef Anyo are at odds with each other, Parvos demands control of the entire Corpus and Nef will not give up his power, the result of this impasse would be an internal conflict between the two leaders, a "Corpus Civil war" if you will. after seeing him in both Lab Disruption and the new Ascension game mode, Parvos now seems to have been relegated to being more of a cartoon villain, who wants a particular macguffin (Albrecht's relics, Jade's motes) and has to be stopped. IMO his potential is kinda being wasted as he is clearly capable of being an intelligent, cunning and ruthless villain when needed. 

this also puts the other corpus leading figures like Alad in a unique position: if a war did breakc out, who would he side with? would he play both sides? would he even bother getting involved? I know we've seen quite a lot of lad already over the years, but with his Amalgams, he might be able to turn the tide of the Corpus war in favour of the side he allies with. either way, there's only room for one true ruler of the Corpus. and then of course there's us; I'd imagine it could be an Operation similar to Tubemen of Regor, where the community has to choose who to side with, either Nef or Parvos. siding with Nef seems like it would put us at odds with the Solaris though, while siding with Parvos also seems kinda bad given his more recent exploits. it would truly be a "lesser of two evils" situation with no good guys, and whoever comes out on top is the de-facto leader of the Corpus from that moment forward.

the third is Narmer and the Sentients:

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after the travesty of the New War, we still don't have a place to permanently fight sentients, but after Jade Shadows, it appears the most terrifying Sentient still alive, Hunhow, has kinda lost his mojo as an all-conquering terror of the stars. though he remains stuck in the ocean depths, he always retained his spirit, his desire to conquer the Tenno and hopefully one day start a new Sentient conquest.. now though, he is too depressed because Stalker has moved out and seeing a birth for the first time has got him wondering if it would even be worth it. Narmer probably sounded like a great idea that he was on board with until it became apparent that Natah was in danger, and Erra ended up being Ballas' puppet - despite the fact that leading up to New War Ballas is literally on a leash being treated as a disfigured pet, a complete role-reversal - and Ballas would ultimatey undo the results of the Old War in his favour. at that point it's clear Ballas must be stopped, queue the temporary alliance with the Drifter.

Pazuul and the Archons are apparently still around and need to be dealt with, both to erase Narmer and provide closure for Erra, who is once again being used. I think Hunhow would be willign to ally with us again to finally end the Narmer threat, and maybe, just maybe, we might get to go to Tau, though it's unclear whether or not the Sentients over there are still war-hungry. the only one who might get them to see reason is Hunhow, but he's stuck on Uranus, so it'd be a whole arc of freeing Hunhow, hoping he won't go back to his old ways, and then getting him to tell the Sentients on Tau to chill the F out in order to avoid yet another war against the Sentients.

I definitely think DE need to start closing a few books now. even if it means taking a narrative hiatus until they can come up with something coherent and appropriate, a genuine closure to the many subplots we have going on, I'd be absolutely fine with that. once these arcs conclude, then DE can create new ones without the story feeling bloated and somewhat confusing like it is now.

 

I would say there are many many more (the queens revival off the top off my head , the Unums purpose , and the very very recent baby sirius/orions first words), But yes in agreement with you.

And please for the love of the lorekeepers , have it be collected by someone and not left in the sands of time like past events which only those that walked it remember.

 

 

 

[CephalonCarnage]

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I don't understand your statement , 

Prequels and sequels are a continuation of the story. And Duviri isn't tied off.

Chapters don't need to go in a linear timeline though, so I don't particularly mind prequels or sequels.

It was a reference to Star Wars and its not-very-good prequels and sequels. Note the titles I gave to chapters 2 and 3.

[0_The_F00l]

5 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

It was a reference to Star Wars and its not-very-good prequels and sequels. Note the titles I gave to chapters 2 and 3.

I will not comment about a franchise which has mixed fanboys/girl on both sides of the force.

Lets keep the art of storytelling separate from specific artists that tell stories.