September 11Th: Community Hot Topics!

[My_Brain_Trembles]

Re-balancing weapons should be the first priority. We have many more weapons than what we did when the game started. I know it was mentioned in the last stream that you plan to change many of the mastery requirements and base modifiers which is great but please remember the weapons that are unique in play style like the Paracyst or Nukor. Those are the kinds of things that are really enjoyable to use as i'm not just mowing down enemies but adding an extra level of either utility or play to the game.

 

After changing the base modifiers/mastery requirements on the weapons then you should think about reworking the mod slots on weapons. I know this is something that will take a lot of time but i believe it will be more than worth it in the end as it will add a whole new layer of gameplay. What i am requesting is for you to add a mod slot for primaries and secondaries that changes the way they work. Giving continuous weapons a fluctuating wave that shortens their range but causes them to whip around in front of the player or a mod that can cause rounds to hover over a location until secondary fire or a period of time causes them to hit the location below them/where the player is aiming. This will give great variety in play with every weapon in the game which in turn solves the major issue of "variety" in weapon customization. Keep in mind those were just examples of what could be added to provide more variety and depth of play. >.<

 

Now the issue i have with nerfing multishot to "add variety" is that it will do absolutely nothing to actually "add variety". Why? Because we have so many damage mods. We have 4 crit build mods, 2 raw dmg mods, 4 ele mods (event and raw), slash/impact/puncture mods. In the end there are so many that if you nerf just one we can and will replace it with another and it will become the next essential thing. If you decide to go nerf heavy and kill all of them then you will undoubtedly lose players. While it may be true you will gain some here and there and that some extremely loyal followers may stick through it many of us won't. This would just be too big of a change and too major to be called "balancing" as it affects a large number of our builds. (i.e all the forma sunk into many of our weapons would need to be changed to fit the new mod requirements and many of us will not do all of that again)

Edited September 13, 2015 by shinigamiscall

[Zeyez]

if we move the mandatory mods then just to remind others:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/447631-about-some-underpowered-status-mods-rifle-aptitude-melee-prowess/

 

pure status mods, that exists since before the damage 2.0, they are useless right now

at least, raise its values to 90-120% or give the same treatment received to the Supra's augment mod, that increase rough +20 status chance, instead of 20% over its base amount

[Shifted]

I'll be short, because there's been plenty said about it already:

 

Mods:

 

Weapons require too many mods. Integrate damage bonus into weapon levels, then remove serration & co. 

 

As for the rest of them, there are weapons that are absolutely useless without a specific mod in them, such as crit chance or reload speed.

Why not just boost the base stats and reduce the values of the mod bonuses?

 

Also

Warframes are OP,  because of primed/corrupted mods

Because they're OP, there's nullifiers, level 80 enemies and stupid enemy scaling

Nerf warframes, nerf scaling, buff weapons (especially melee)

 

Multishot: Good change, but needs ammo fixes in order to work. Make ammo drops % based, so it recovers 1-5% of total weapon ammo.

Suddenly grakata isn't useless.

 

Exilus:

Bandaid fix for issue above. Meh.

 

Brawler:

The Headless Baconman. But what isn't weird in warframe?

 

Endless missions:

 

Well, since host disconnects are a @*#(@!# plague for me recently and losing 40 waves of defense rewards is SUPER FUN, hell yes I want it to be faster.

[Burnthesteak87]

In your opinion, should “required” mods be reworked (with appropriate rebalancing)?

 

Yes, if that would mean hitting the real problem:

On other topics has been highlighted that the real problem with modding is "players just do it to reach MAXIMUM DAMAGE".
This happens because the mod system allows it and the endless enemy scaling in endless missions requires it.

Talking about Rifles, Serration and damaging mods, we have on 6 to 8 slots to fill with damage mods:

Serration: +165%
Heavy Caliber: +165%
x4 Elementals: +90% x4
Status mods: +60%
(Eventually basic damage mods, but won't be taken in consideration since numbers scales on the weapon)

We have an AVERAGE minimal increase in damage of 330% in base damage, 360% turned into elemental damage = 690% total, that eventually can go to 710% or higher with basic damage mods.
This can go even higher with Faction Damage Mods and Weaknesses when calculating the damage dealt.

Some solutions:

• Powershifting: move all all this +690% to 720% damage to a single mod (Serration) from Elemental mods, Crit and whatever messes with damage increase; No other mod outside Serration will raise the damage.
  this would anyway mess with how the elemental damage conversion would be counted, since the actual system is accumulative.​
• declare that just 2-3 specialized slots ala Exilus can contain damage mods;
• declare an Hard Cap on damage similar to how Power Efficency works. Allowing eventually Corrupted mods to bypass it, or not, depending on the circumstances.​

Multishot used to raise DPS is a part of the problem, it should have a valuable alternative, which at the moment would be exactly as it is working with Status proc uptime.
Additional ammo drain isn't a problem (it never have been) if DE would finally decide to rework Ammos into a valid feature, over than shiny drops on the ground just accumulating because they've no real use. (Ammo lacking pressure, recharge percentage of clip, ammo supplies every tot defense waves, etc.)
Another nice idea would be having the ammo drain from multishot (speculated in the devstream) "hitting" directly the total ammo stack instead than the magazine.

Another QOL would be making essential mods like Serration into an weapon Aura, so that the leveling of weapons wouldn't be a boring mess every Forma.

Here's some other constructive threads about this problem:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/523087-now-is-the-time-to-change-damage-mods-and-scaling/#entry5855606

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/523934-modframe-and-why-ordinary-nerfs-to-mandatory-mods-wont-increase-mod-variety/?p=5865783

Edited September 12, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Jangkrik]

My only issue with exilus slots is that you usually have to forma the frame 1-3 times to be able to use it.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Changing any mandatory mods this late in beta is downright idiotic. Instead rebalance weapon Base damage and enemy scaling according to existing mods. There's nothing wrong with damage mods, there simply needs to be a variety of weapons that don't need them, since they oneshot non boss enemies unmodded and instead need mods for better reload, faster flying rockets etc. There's your fix. And to do this, you must have an enemy level cap. Make it 100 for example and rebalance enemy scaling. There. Now if a new sniper rifle one shots max level enemies putting damage mids on it is pointless for example.

[Drathin]

new brawler frame seems ok, but what we really need is a earth frame to complete the 4 elements set

It is an earth frame.

[StoneBrigand]

I wish the Brawler frame had a regular head. Hopefully its alt helmets were be more conventional. 

 

I think it would've been better if the exilus slot were automatically unlocked, instead of requiring either plat or the Simaris syndicate rep. 

 

I don't think the multishot mods should increase eammo consumption. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Required mods:

I think they should be removed and their damage/status/crit bonuses folded in to the main weapon via levelling, similar to how warframes get shields/health/power. Even if you nerf them into the ground, people will still gravitate towards the highest DPS combination, and there's still a balance issue with the way mods are set up; you can't actually balance the game because you don't know whether the player going into your Ceres content has serration + split chamber or not. Folding the benefits of these mods into the levelling system would both make levelling guns more rewarding, make guns visibly improve as you play (maybe now I won't have to bail on a survival mission because I forma'd my gun and need to slot in mods so it kills effectively?), and would eliminate two required mods.

 

However!

 

The fundamental problem remains. Utility mods flat out can't compete with damage mods under almost any circumstance. I mean, Mass Effect 3 had a mod system of sorts, and the most common combo there was +damage and +Punch through. Only certain oddball niche guns used other combos (eg prothean particle rifle, that had a ramp up feature that encouraged you to have the magazine as big as humanly possible.)

 

Fact is, damage is the most obvious choice if you can take it. So the only real way to fix required mods is to add exilus slots for guns. Recoil reduction, fast hands, magazine boost, etc etc, none of these things can compete with raw damage in most circumstances. So the solution is to make it so they don't have to. Reload speed can compete a lot more easily with +magazine or -recoil than it can with damage, either base or elemental.

 

The actual proposed multishot mod is a horrible idea on its own, though it might not be that terrible depending on what Scott does when he takes a nuke to the level scaling. Right now we need the multishot DPS in order to compete in high level content, and nerfing multishot in this fashion is a meganerf to the usability of all automatic weapons.

 

Exilus slots:

Overall, I like them. The concept is generally great and it has made it worthwhile to add oddball mods like handspring and the like. However, I think we could use the ability to add more to frames, simply because the "obvious" choice is generally either rush or a parkour 2.0 mobility mod like mobilize.

 

Still, I consider exilus slots a success. The only real big issue I have with them is how Simaris scanning is tedious and these cool mechanics are locked behind Simaris.

 

Brawler Frame/Atlas:

 

He looks neat, but right now I don't know enough about him to say. Hype train is idling in the station for him. I'm actually much more interested in Ignus' rhino skin, to be honest.

 

Endless scaling:

 

Yeah, I like the idea of endless missions ramping up faster and rewards increasing just as fast. A big complaint from the community is how you only get hard play after about 25-30 minutes or thereabouts on most missions. But on the other hand, right now we're dependent on the fact that we can relatively easily go 40 waves/40 min in a T4 endless mission to beat the RNG when it comes to prime part acquisition, so a solution would ideally involve enemies scaling up faster but also rewards scaling up faster as well. Perhaps every two minutes/two waves insteadof every five.

 

Alternatively, a T5 key where enemies start at raid levels would also be acceptable if rewards were also good.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[blobjim]

Ugh... Please don't touch the "required" mods...

 

Took me so long to forma all of my primaries and secondaries to my expectations with everything I like on them, I do NOT want to be forced to Draco for that long...

 

But this is just ignoring the problem and you are only considering the topic from your own standpoint.

[spetator]

1/ I think the first issue is might not that be simple because if you only rework the 'required' mods, it might broke the whole game. so I think the whole weapons damage system or weapons stats or enemy's stats must be changed if you want to rework those mods. what I want to say is if you'll gonna rework the other weapons or enemy issues with the required mods, I agree with reworking it

Edited September 13, 2015 by spetator

[ModernDarpa]

The Exilus Mod slot is an amazing idea, giving us more flexibility in modding our Warframes.

But the thing is, majority of the Exilus type mods are fairly useless, with few exceptions here and there. 

 

IF only there were more exilus mods that are more useful (i.e See enemies through walls / Reload is x% faster on all weapons / Aura is boosted by x% / etc)

 

Or even mixed exilus mods *nightmare mod* like mixing Aviator & Mobilize, which will also encourage players to use bullet glide more often.

 

But still, I like the idea of exilus mods and the extra slot we have for it.

[Aggh]

Endless missions definitely need to scale faster.  Right now they just put up a boring time wall where there should be a skill/gear wall.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Aggh

[Laurencin]

"BALANCE" is not a right word for this game's current condition. It's just "NURF". (so you called it) "Required" mods is only hope for some weapons, because EVERY weapons damage scale is MINDLESSLY random. DE should balancing weapons first.

[InfamousDerp]

Exilus Mode Slot: I like the Idea of Exilus Mod Slot because of the utility, but I was expecting it to be like similar to Aura Mod Slot (Where it gives another mod capacity) but for now I'm expecting future utility mods so yeah its 10/10

[Domaik]

Exilus mod slot is ok...or almost not ok...it just makes things harder with the extended mod consuption...rending some builds un-usable...so either bring that slot already polarized, have it no mod point cost or reduce some of the mod's point requisites because right now it's too insane for most player....I'm a veteran player since closed beta and even with my vast resources it's proving quite the task to fit any useful mods in the exilus slot without forma'ing 2 or 3 times a warframe you already had ready....so if for me with all my resources and knowledge it's being this hard I don't want to imagine for new players and the strugle they must have....

 

Please DE take this into consideration...

 

 

About the new warframe...well I have access to the council and I have already expresed my love for this upcoming warframe. keep it up!

 

other topics like the rework of mods...I take a more conservative aproach on that and I wouldn't like to see them reworked for now...

Edited September 13, 2015 by Domaik

[Irchrael]

In your opinion, should “required” mods be reworked (with appropriate rebalancing)?

Yes, but not just add/remove some % from them. F.E: Remove serration (or change it to 60% firarte + 30% dmg or smoething) and give all weps DMG bonus from lvling.

Redirection and Vitality too.

Maybe too op but- everywhere are using this mods.

 

Overall, what is your opinion of the Exilus mod slot?

It's ok but it should have polarity (and all Exilus mods should have same polarity). And more mods for exilus :D

[(PSN)Terminus128]

I believe that is necessary to implement a new augment slot in the warframes, to use syndicate mods.

Edited September 13, 2015 by (PS4)Terminus128

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I believe that is necessary to implement a new augment slot in the warframes, to use syndicate mods.

That will be 20p, or 2 exilus adapters+other rare stuff to craft.

[My_Brain_Trembles]

Warframes are OP,  because of primed/corrupted mods

Because they're OP, there's nullifiers, level 80 enemies and stupid enemy scaling

Nerf warframes, nerf scaling, buff weapons (especially melee)

 

 

Warframes themselves are not OP. It is all in how the player builds them and how their abilities work. Since the start of this game it has always been about utility as dps frames always fall off in the later half of the game. So what frames are OP? I use a variety of them regularly for different mission types and not a single one would i take into all the different mission types towards late game because different frames have different uses. Sadly there are some i never use anymore due to a number of them simply being outclassed in utility by another frame.

[(PSN)Darkturn]

 Mandatory mods should be rebalance, the idea like Multi shoot consume more makes sense while on shotgun i guess  should be staying as it seem hard to say when you get addition "bullet" more or not.

Serration and Hornet or any base only (not including corrupt or nightmare) mods should give like the treat as Exilus got a Slot for guns but only for those mod.

As i found it as a process of someone maxing those mods as development from the player in the game but also as a player, they not hard as rare or even legendary so its not a pain. 

 

---

 

ohh the addition mods slot for frame? well I did made a topic of it the link should be here if you like to see!

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/495205-augment-ability-slot-future-suggestion/

 

---

 

You better put the idle movement from bruce lee!!!! :D

 

---

 

Honestly 5 min at first isn't a problem but farming in long run is slow for me and consume a lot of my time too so its kinda a pain. 

Reduce 5 to 3 and both Def. and Surv. but let interception be as if all a red at start the enemy have a great start, maybe speed the blue up bar up if all 4 got as a bonus.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Re:  The Required Mods Problem (Serration, Hornet Strike, et al)

 

I agree there should be another way, but I believe strongly that there is something valuable in the experience of developing that first max Rank Serration, that first max Rank Vitality, et cetera.  Granting enhanced damage purely through equipment Rank is too easy.  With weapon damage mods, I think the solution could be as simple as granting the first +100% Damage through Rank, while making Serration and the like then provide their own percentage bonus and, where appropriate, secondary effect.

 

Here's the thing that I think is worth exploring, though; Mod Slot Polarities providing new bonuses.

 

This would shuffle some of the lost experience of developing critical Mods into developing the weapons we like most.  What if a Madurai Polarity, regardless of the Mod that occupies it, conferred a bonus +5% damage?  What if a Vazarin Polarity improved Status Chance or Critical Chance?  What if a Naramon Polarity affected Recoil?  See where I am going with this?

 

 

Re:  Endless Game Modes

 

These are some of my favorite modes to play, but they just take too long with rewards that are too random.  Dropping 20 minutes to hit the C Rotation in the loot pool just sucks.

 

Defense missions don't really need to be sets of 5 waves, do they?  Can't they just be one long 3 minute wave, then a prize?

 

Interception takes more effort and coordination than Defense and doesn't feel like it pays out well for the time.  I think that can be improved by just escalating the timers, though.  If the Tenno have a Majority, consider it locked down and give them a bonus to their timer.  We should be able to make a come-back, anyway, because psh, screw the AI; it's not like they play fair, right?  :D

 

Survival missions don't really need to be set for 5 minutes marks, do they?  Wouldn't 4 minutes do the job?  What if actually activating and managing Life Support capsules advanced the clock some?  (Take note of that last one, DE - campers would have to choose between spending more time in the mission or actually managing Life Support to advance faster!)

 

But maybe it's time for a new take on some old modes?  Maybe tweak some loot tables?  Maybe a hard-hitting Onslaught Defense mode?

 

(And maybe Rotation B and Rotation C loot should have some chance of dropping in Rotation A drops.  Just saying!)

 

 

Re: Exilus Slot

 

Love it, really surprised that Augment Mods weren't set for Exilus use.  

 

Still wondering why Diamond Skin, Flame Repellent, Lightning Rod, Insulation, Antitoxin, and Undying Will weren't made Exilus.

 

(BTW:  Warm Coat is a Joke.)

Edited September 13, 2015 by (PS4)Hooligantuan

[Kainosh]

I hope "Brawler" will stay as close to the concept as possible. Looks great.

 

 

And he totally should be able to grab and throw enemies...And some other objects if possible.  Must be his 1st. 

I really hope we dont get Valkyr copy.  His abilities should be really unique. Simple...But unique. 

 

Would be awesome if he could use enemies as weapons/defence...With all their scaled up stats.  Maybe use armor of fallen enemy or take their shields... Stuff like that...

[(PSN)Killerworld]

For question 1, when Warframe skills and the ability mods removed and sent to level progression of the Warframes I thought weaponry would follow a similar path, I only hear in Devstream about the melee blocking being more effective at reducing  incoming damage as you level your melee weapon. I think it would be cool if primaries and secondaries followed a similar program, where at level 30 it has increased damage at serration max, making mods like heavy caliber more optional or a utility slot on a gun would be appreciative. It is also hard to play with other guns like miter and pantera or Seer, there damage even if modded correctly would make T4 feel regrettable.

 

For question 2, I love the Exilus slot but since you guys added the elemental parkour boost mods, it made the other mods obsolete to expectation. I don't understand why Armored agility or Fortitude wasn't implied to this slot, it helps many frames and the speed boost is the same as using the 'Mobilize' mod. I really want to use Augment mods, Chroma my favorite frame [prefer characters like Chroma just wish Effigy was more 'active' and crowd controlling, feels like rhino's stomp] I wish I could use after burn but because I'm using electric energy and using mods to survive T4 Survival up to 60 mins, I don't want to change anything but then I'll never use chromas first ability because its risky and doesn't damage well unless I use augment to help change my mind. Also to add on Chroma it would be nice if chroma's effigy shared the augment, like if I have Vexing augment, The effigy should have 30% of the augment, not a damaging but atleast do shockwaves like Vex or have projectiles with afterburn augment. Anyway, I like Exilus but people would favor the elemental parkour over the other mods, I'd like to use handspring or the resist but to awesome not to use the ice spring lol

 

For question 3, I like the idea of a Brawler but why a monk? Sounds like Diablo 3 style, if still headstrong for monk it should have a lot of Tenno scripture on its body or Lotus stuff, similar to Loki but lights up brightly while using abilities and channelling. If not a monk, I would suggest like an assassin or some aspect designs of Mesa, like clothed face or orokin cloth/robes like Umbra, maybe more teleporting

 

For question 4, it needs better rewards for sure, Sabotage and spy feels the only worthy ending due to offer more than 1 reward in a quick session, I wish other end missions offered much as well. Yes I dislike that every 20 mins i'll never get ash p systems or volt chassis or whatever else during survival and due to ducat change I'm really getting tired of the void.

Edited September 13, 2015 by (PS4)Killerworld

[se05239]

Yes, the "required" mods need to be rebalanced BUT in order for that to work you also need to rebalance how enemies scale and how much armor impact damage and all that. The broken nature of the mods are a direct result of the broken scaling plaguing Warframe.

 

When we are on the subject scaling. Doing endless missions in general is considered a waste of time 95% of the case. Missing becomes more and more tedious, without any reward scaling to show for that. The foul nature of RNG just obliterate any chance of it. Sure, quicker rewards at the cost of quicker (and totally broken) scaling of enemies would increase our chances at wanted rewards but in the end RNG remains just that, Random. Nothing will change, other than more meta-esque dps builds to counter the faster enemy scaling.

 

How things scale and RNG in general need a massive overlook and UPGRADING, not tweaking. Moving one 1% up and down won't impact much, it needs to be real POSITIVE changes. One massive step in this would be to introduce Psuedo-RNG, rather than the true RNG you roll with now.