Vitality And Redirection Option Or Must Have?

[viamont]

More than demand a change im actually curious about what the comunity tink about this two particular mods. As whe all know this mods increase the HP and Shields whe have, now i know some people run one or the other, some run both and the most daring players non, but my question its quite simple:

 

A) should this mods stay like they are right now?

B) should this mods be permanently added to all frames to release two new slots?

 

Simple as that, as i mentioned i would like to hear the opnion of the players, some might tink they are musts, others options and others might not care.

 

Leave your opinion with a simple A or B and any comment you feel might be helpfull

[Naftal]

I rarely use either so they're an option to me.

[(PSN)jFresh215]

I usually always run vitality, unless im trin, and only because those slash procs are a thing. 

[(XBOX)XxBCSxTrollXx]

it should stay there are a good amount of frames with abilites to make up 4 the health sheilds etc

[Kcham375]

Every since talks began about damage mods being taken out of the game and added directly to the level of your weapons, I kinda felt like warframes should be given the same treatment concerning these two mods.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Kdog777

[ashrah]

vitality will be more effective cz all this procs....redirection is enough on low lvl....

Every since talks began about damage mods being taken out of the game and added directly the level of your weapons, I kinda felt like warframes should be given the same treatment concerning these two mods.

+1 that would be really nice

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

I prefer both and hope for primes of them that's only thing holding me back from agreeing they need to be built in. But I do think health amounts needs a rework 300 at 30 just feels so low to me.

[NobleParadox96]

it's more of a benefit and/or a inconvenience depending on the frame's stats

 

Edit: in a way of it being an inconvenience is when you're supporting the weaker stat instead of the strong ones.

 

take valkyr for example who has high armor and good amount of health but very low shields, adding redirection wouldn't increase the frame's survivability but adding steel fiber and/or vitality benefits valkyr and increases her survivability

Edited February 11, 2016 by NobleParadox96

[Maicael]

They could be built-in to have higher health/shields at max rank, and introduce 2 mods for player preference:

1) Converts XX% of Health to Shields

2) Converts XX% of Shields to Health

 

While leaving vigor as an option to slightly increase both.

[Dhrekr]

B) should this mods be permanently added to all frames to release two new slots?

Of course not. What a broken idea.

 

This is nothing but straight-up power creep. "Add them automatically to every frame" will lead to "hey Frames are tankier and also their abilities/additional stats are better" will lead to "raise the silly numbers of the enemies! Make them stronger! Make them tankier!"

 

It would only lead to stupid power creep.

 

So, no.

 

No no no no no no no no no.

 

A modding system exists for you to find a compromise. You have to choose how to mod and how to play. Having both Vitality and Redirection is a choice that has a cost (not being able to use another mod).

[DeMonkey]

I sometimes use 1, but never both. I would be against having them built in though, on some frames I like having low shields so that Rage gets converting faster.

[zaxiade]

If there is a frame that highly benefits from it like;

Valkyr using Vitality;

Or Frost using Redirection. 

 

If it helps with livability then its a must to me, but if i'm wanting to feel like a glass cannon or confident that I'm OK without them-

- then it's merely not needed, purely optional.

[Chipputer]

I consider them optional. I have a few frames that I run neither of them on.

 

However, with the amount of procs that are put on you, causing you to lose health, directly, in later game... I would consider Vitality a high recommendation.

[Rydian]

I consider Redirection optional and don't use it on some frames (armor applies to health and not shields, Rage works on health damage and not shield damage), but given that the missions I run wildly vary in enemy strength and I don't want to change builds around for separate missions I always have Vitality on.

[Vicious_Vipa]

I always use redirection and almost never vitality

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I rarely use either so they're an option to me.

This +1 from me.

I think Redirection, Vitality, and Steel Fiber are more frame specific build-wise unlike Serration/Hornet Strike/Pressure Point/Point Blank

On a Shield-frame like Mag : I actually don't run any of those 3 because her Shield Transference Augment will suffice.

(Granted you could have both Redirection and Shield Polarize stack, but that is an additional mod slot lost)

I believe Shield Transference still grants 1200 o ershields even when Cold-hazard is in play where normal Shields are halved.

So Shield Transference just replaced Redirection.

Trinity- more Health and Shields hurt a Self-harm build...and on an EV build I only need EV Leech Augment to grant over Shields:

Still running Quick-Thinking on both builds Since she can Regen energy which can be health on both builds so...

Valkyr doesn't need any Health mods because Efficiency and some Power-strength will last her longer.

On WuKong because of Rage -Redirection is not needed. Vitalitality can be used or if a player is proficient with Defy toggles and/or Equilibrium you can still regain health and not use a Defensive Mod...since Quick-Thinking breaks Defy

On the opposite of the spectrum:

I don't use Redirection nor Vitality (nor Vigor or Steel Fiber) on Banshee nor Loki

Again I rely on Quick-thinking and Energy levels

The real squishy frames rely on not getting hit and casting abilities (usually frequently) to stay alive.

Ultimately that means Energy is their life-line: acting as their new health-pool and supplying their casting needs.

Comparing the 240% Ration of Energy as Energy-Health with Quick-Thinking

600 energy is the equivalent of 1440 health.

This is more than Vitality + Vigor will get you on either Frame.

These fragile castera have abilities that can give them the 3sec buffer to allow Shield to Regen while Health is being diminished and Energy Pancakes protect on 2 fronts (Granting energy to Cast abilities and technically counting that same energy as health)

So I have to agree that Redirection & Vitality should not be buil-in as they are not 'Staple' mods.

I do feel it would have been nice if Armor scaled with Warframe level like Shields and Armor do. (Would be amazing if current Base Armor values were just tripled at Level 30:

Loki 65 Armor would grow to 195 giving

Granted low Armor Frames like Banshee would only be at 45 Armor

Valkyr would be at 1800, but her Hysteria maker her Armor irrelevant anyway, because Invulnerable.

Chroma would still just be insane.

Nezha, Rhino, and Frost would have more reason to buff their Armor scaling abilities. Warding Halo/Iron Skin/SnowGlobe

No real reason the Armor stat needed to be stagnant.

Edit:

I do use Vitality when Low Energy challenge is present because... Really don't have a choice

It becomes Vitality plus Over-shields....still no room for Redirection

I prefer both and hope for primes of them that's only thing holding me back from agreeing they need to be built in. But I do think health amounts needs a rework 300 at 30 just feels so low to me.

I don't think DE will Release a Primed Ranked 10 variant of a Mod that already has 10 Ranks

(Redirection, Vitality, and Steel Fiber are all Tank 10)

Edited February 11, 2016 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Chipputer]

Says Vitality and Redirection aren't staple mods

Has a giant post talking about how great Quick Thinking is

[5H4DE]

Imo they should be added to the frames as default stats , The only Warframes that really use these mods are either innate tanks which dont really need to boost their abilities ( for example Atlas ) , or Warframes that can benefit from Rage well enough . Might as well add them to the base of the warframes for the sake of newer players or players less skilled .

Edited February 11, 2016 by TheRealShade

[(PSN)abb12355]

I feel Armor and Health and shields mods are overrated.

I Run all my frames without any Health and shields mods and they all do well.

The reason I think there overrated is because there is a point where you get one shotted no matter what Frame or How much Survival mods you have on.

Even on Banshee who is squishy af, I've never ran a Health shield, or armor mod.

Also Zephyr who has really high health and shields, I never run Survival mods.

There a waste imo

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Says Vitality and Redirection aren't staple mods

Has a giant post talking about how great Quick Thinking is

I don't qualify Quick-Thinking as a Staple mod

I don't use it on any Warframe in Low Energy Challenge missions where cap is generally 50 energy.

Never use Quick-Thinking with WuKong

I don't use Quick-Thinking on Valkyr

I don't use Quick-Thinking on Mag

I don't use Quick-Thinking on Rhino.

I don't use Quick-Thinking on Nezha.

But yeah given Zeneruik 4 Energy per second in combination with other available Energy sources....Quick-Thinking in most content yields better results than Vitality or Redirection.

Redirection basically got power+creeped by Over Shields, freeing up a Mod slot or 2 (or 3 of a player was running Fast Deflection..)

Health Orbs used to drop much more frequently pre GU13, but then Melee 2.0 brought Life-Strike....health Orbs basically became tied to certain Warframe abilities.

Equilibrium helps with some Nicje Warframe abilities.

Sure Redirection & Vitality could be made innate, heck they could do the same with Steel Fiber.

For those of us not using those mods...it is a straight -up bonus incentive.

For the players that Forma'd their builds to fit those high-capacity mods:

This could be seen as slap in the face.

-While still a Buff for them....I can see complaints about having to re-polarize slots to accommodate a new build while other players just get buffed without a need to re-polarize.

[Artekkor]

Totally mandatory in my opinion. Impprtance is different from frame to frame l, but for most frames these 2 are vital to not be oneshoted right away.

[Xzorn]

Optional, A, they're fine the way they are.

I think if anything enemy damage should scale less since they're basically useless at a certain point.

 

I only run Redirection in 2 frames of 28 and that's mostly cuz there's nothing else to slot worth while. I run Vitality in most but it also has limited use.

 

If you want to get technical about it pure offense is how you group end game because CC is strong and there's no real penalty for dying. You don't really need any defense just Lots of damage. ie Best group = Nova + Banshee + Nyx/Loki + Rhno/Mirage.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Xzorn

[TheGrimCorsair]

Their use is highly dependent on a frame-by-frame, and with some frames build-by-build, basis.

 

A Valkyr built entirely around 100% uptime Hysteria? Nah.

 

A Valkyr focused on Warcry with intermittent Hysteria use? Yeah.

 

I don't run them on Ivara at all even when I run sorties, as there's little danger to me while I'm invisible... and if I'm not invisible, it's because all the enemies are dead or asleep.

 

I run Vitality on Ash as I run it in conjunction with Rage. His moderate-low armor and huge HP pool means just a nick from enemy fire gives me plenty of power for all his abilities, including Bladestorm which gives me on-demand (if temporary) invulnerability.

 

On Nyx (as of late) I run Redirection since it gives me a pretty large shield pool and I only rarely get hit thanks to Chaos and being able to regen my shields in a pinch with Absorb.

 

With Chroma I always run Steel Fiber and Vitality since he *wants* to take health damage, and taking shield damage massively improves his armor it all adds together to make for an extremely survivable warframe that can take heaps of damage to replenish its shields and then dole it out in kind.

 

That said, I wouldn't really recommend running both Redirection and Vitality simultaneously even with the forma to do so at a fairly low mod point cost just because dedicating your other 7 slots to making your warframe's powers better is virtually always going to lead to you being more capable, as well as a greater asset to your teammates. They're a consideration, rather than a mandate, in all content at the moment with their relative value, again, changing from frame to frame and build to build.

 

There isn't a need to add them as built in functions of warframe growth, as they're not really necessary in the same way Serration et al are. Those mods are mandatory both by they cause elemental damage mods to become explosively more powerful... and because we face hideously durable enemies en mass.

Edited February 12, 2016 by TheGrimCorsair

[TheLexiConArtist]

Wouldn't be caught dead without them on most of my frames... Oh wait, yes I would. Much more frequently.

 

Sure, oneshotting will always exist, but you're increasing the threshold for oneshots - and increasing the effectiveness and the proc window of a sentinel's Guardian precept at all levels, for that matter - by slotting both.

Seeing how much health damage I take sometimes before Guardian finally activates makes me cringe, even though it's in the first Precept slot.

 

Unavoidable damage will be a thing in anything other than a dedicated CCing group. QT/Primed Flow gives you effective health, yes, but... well, I think I'd rather get to spend my energy on keeping my proverbial bacon saved, than venting it all in the process of saving said bacon in the first place.

 

Personal verdict:

Pubs and solo: all the time; Organised group: optional/replaceable.

_{Exceptions for things like Valkyr and Chroma aside, of course.}

Edited February 12, 2016 by EDYinnit

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

For me, the priority is:

Vitality

Steel Fiber

Redirection

Fast Deflection

Unless the frame's base stat is too low to make it useful then the sequence of priority will change.

Edited February 12, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO