The failure of Archwing and how to fix it.

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, Raphaello said:

so much travel time and ... well, distance.

EDIT: I feel it's worth noting that the few maps that provide relief from that distance issue, tend to be so cramped that they force you to slow down or be slowed down. A quick (note word "quick") fix would be to remove the "bounce" from impacting things. Sure, it might be realistic but ... well if reality was so fun, I wouldn't be playing Warframe.

well, if you're referring to how long it takes to go from A to B in AW then it's not really that bad, I see that the afterburner is really helpful building up speed, plus, most of the players get itzal (since they think it's godmode or something) so it's fine 

as for the bouncing. well, they don't have to remove it. just add a mod like hand spring that reduces the knockdown time or prevents knockdowns or something 

 

3 minutes ago, Darkwave1098 said:

The US educational system would like to have a word with you.

trust me, I'm in a system far worse than US learning system >__> 

[S0V3REiGN]

I find the missions in archwing to be the root of the problem. They are so freaking boring, I mean defense has made me fight back my sleep on my chair a few times. Interception is fun but only because the enemies flock to 1 or 2 points most of the time so why even have 4 caps to begin with? The Low level missions you spend more time waiting for the enemies to spawn then actually fight them. I think they should just do different types of missions for Archwing altogether, personally I like Fonorian alerts, there should be more missions like that.

[Kaotyke]

33 minutes ago, Kenshin98 said:

trust me, I'm in a system far worse than US learning system >__> 

The Brazilian one?

Spoiler

I just burned my own country... the shame is overflowing...

 

[CrazyCatLad]

It's too barebones and too neglected. I'd be over MR 21 now if DE focused even 20% more on Archwing.

[(PSN)DkAngel23]

Ill chime in on this one. I think my personal issues with the Archwing stuff is something Ive seen a few others mention. 

• It takes a really long time to level an Archwing, especially if you play with anyone else due to the xp range being abysmal and the mission/level design being wonky. 
   
• After tons of time playing Im STILL missing super necessary mods that I either cant get to drop or did drop but just couldnt see in the huge black of space. This is a huge tiresome spot for me. Gold rare special mods... eh whatever. But when I cant get the basic weapon damage increase, health increase, or shield increase during hours and hours of play then it really kills it for me. You really cant progress without them. I dont think the method that works with the Warframe mods works with the Archwing in terms of acquisition. Certain number of kills unlocks a mod, or Ordis crafts them from junk left over from the battle... something other than trying to find a small silver object in a huge dark map. Not to mention the loss of an item pull ala Carrier.
   
• The basic Archwing and its weapons are utter junk. If you got an Elytron or an Itzal and really almost (I say almost) ANY other combo of weapons then your damage and capability in those missions skyrockets. The starter Warframes are not junk. While the MK-1 weapons can be argued on that front it takes very little to upgrade to a new weapon (sans plat). Needing the parts for the weapons akin to how prime parts are is terrible. Especially because almost every weapon has one part that isnt gainable till a later mission that is horrible to play solo (good luck finding teammates, especially ones that dont die in 2 min..see below) with starter weapons. You dont see many people in Ceres or the Void running MK-1 gear. Dont make us do the same in Archwing
   
• There is a massive lack of information about Archwing. I cant count the times Ive had someone queue into a higher level mission with lvl 1 stuff. Why? Because they have level 30 Warframe gear and had no idea that it didnt use their Warframe stats. While I could argue that its a common sense issue, Ive seen it so often (especially Jordas quest) that I feel like it needs to be made more obvious that when you are in an Archwing mission you are in essence starting with a lvl 1 frame. Maybe the quest can have a part that makes them open the Archwing customization and see that its level 1 with some narration on having to gain power.
   
• My last gripe comes into the weapon play. I find that in most cases it just ends up spamming the melee attack until you hit a shielded enemy which then kills you. The current way around this is guns with huge hit areas. Enemies can be very small and along with that they move around like a ferret on cocaine. Trying to hit enemies sometimes is an effort in futility. Ground enemies can certainly move oddly when fired at but once you add in omni directional movement... well ask people how they like Vay Hek and his Terra Frame. Im pretty sure nearly everyone will say they hate it. Same problems. Small areas to hit that move all over the place in no real order or predictable manner. I do like the melee stuff but I really want to be able to do more gunplay and with the difficulty of hitting coupled with the above mentioned lack of punch it really takes the joy out of it. Dont these things have some sort of targetting system or something?

I do like Archwing and I think the concept is sound but the details need serious work. I can jump into one of my favorite frames and grind out some missions looking for something and I have fun and I dont notice the repetition. With Archwing I have to build myself up to even start a mission because Im not enjoying it due to the issues above. Even then after an hour or two I just cant keep going, mostly because I only gained a couple levels and found none of the things I was looking for.

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, LABAL said:

The biggest problem I see with Archwing is that the space is fake and two-dimensional.

1) Learn to use shift and ctrl

2) Move beyond the tunnel missions and into an open map

[Clonmac]

I don't think there is a problem with Archwing itself. I do like the gameplay and it can be a fun change of pace. But, as others have said, there is just a complete lack of missions which makes leveling up a pain.

The mod drop rate needs to be changed as well. You can play a full mission and only get 1 or 2 mods. The also needs to be a better way to spot and pick up loot that has been dropped. Because you are so far away from small tiny objects, they can be impossible to spot. You also need to be fairly precise when moving toward them to pick them up. It would be nice if items were highlighted, glowing, larger, and/or displayed on the minimap so that you don't miss anything.
 

[khazlol]

could use a bit more variation :P there are plenty of ideas to take from

just imagine fighting in the atmosphere of some planet :P warframe thunder

[(XBOX)dude1286]

My biggest complaint about AW is the reward system for Interception. I didn't do this mission for a T4 key that I have no use for due to having everything from the Void. Done the mission about fifteen times and have two pieces to show for it.

[DxAdder]

Things Wrong with Archwing:

A) Should have completely different mission types than the regular game.

B) Affinity share distance need to dramatically increased.

C) The pace of the missions need to be increased.

D)There should be regular Alerts for Archwing.

E) Focus Powers should be usable in Archwing.

F) Needs a Conclave mode

G) Needs Sentinels/Pets/Cosmetics/Prime Weapons

Besides all the above the drop tables for weapon parts and especially the Elytron are brutal.

[GinKenshin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DkAngel23 said:

Ill chime in on this one. I think my personal issues with the Archwing stuff is something Ive seen a few others mention. 

• It takes a really long time to level an Archwing, especially if you play with anyone else due to the xp range being abysmal and the mission/level design being wonky. 
   
• After tons of time playing Im STILL missing super necessary mods that I either cant get to drop or did drop but just couldnt see in the huge black of space. This is a huge tiresome spot for me. Gold rare special mods... eh whatever. But when I cant get the basic weapon damage increase, health increase, or shield increase during hours and hours of play then it really kills it for me. You really cant progress without them. I dont think the method that works with the Warframe mods works with the Archwing in terms of acquisition. Certain number of kills unlocks a mod, or Ordis crafts them from junk left over from the battle... something other than trying to find a small silver object in a huge dark map. Not to mention the loss of an item pull ala Carrier.
   
• The basic Archwing and its weapons are utter junk. If you got an Elytron or an Itzal and really almost (I say almost) ANY other combo of weapons then your damage and capability in those missions skyrockets. The starter Warframes are not junk. While the MK-1 weapons can be argued on that front it takes very little to upgrade to a new weapon (sans plat). Needing the parts for the weapons akin to how prime parts are is terrible. Especially because almost every weapon has one part that isnt gainable till a later mission that is horrible to play solo (good luck finding teammates, especially ones that dont die in 2 min..see below) with starter weapons. You dont see many people in Ceres or the Void running MK-1 gear. Dont make us do the same in Archwing
   
• There is a massive lack of information about Archwing. I cant count the times Ive had someone queue into a higher level mission with lvl 1 stuff. Why? Because they have level 30 Warframe gear and had no idea that it didnt use their Warframe stats. While I could argue that its a common sense issue, Ive seen it so often (especially Jordas quest) that I feel like it needs to be made more obvious that when you are in an Archwing mission you are in essence starting with a lvl 1 frame. Maybe the quest can have a part that makes them open the Archwing customization and see that its level 1 with some narration on having to gain power.
   
• My last gripe comes into the weapon play. I find that in most cases it just ends up spamming the melee attack until you hit a shielded enemy which then kills you. The current way around this is guns with huge hit areas. Enemies can be very small and along with that they move around like a ferret on cocaine. Trying to hit enemies sometimes is an effort in futility. Ground enemies can certainly move oddly when fired at but once you add in omni directional movement... well ask people how they like Vay Hek and his Terra Frame. Im pretty sure nearly everyone will say they hate it. Same problems. Small areas to hit that move all over the place in no real order or predictable manner. I do like the melee stuff but I really want to be able to do more gunplay and with the difficulty of hitting coupled with the above mentioned lack of punch it really takes the joy out of it. Dont these things have some sort of targetting system or something?

I do like Archwing and I think the concept is sound but the details need serious work. I can jump into one of my favorite frames and grind out some missions looking for something and I have fun and I dont notice the repetition. With Archwing I have to build myself up to even start a mission because Im not enjoying it due to the issues above. Even then after an hour or two I just cant keep going, mostly because I only gained a couple levels and found none of the things I was looking for.

that's a nice piece of feedback right there, though I have some comments: 

1- I get what you mean, it's already hard lvling an AW weapon, but it's twice as hard as lvl a whole AW. but like I've said in millions of AW threads. strat small, go to MD missions on mars/earth, gain some starter XP and lvls and then go to INT. it's the best most efficient way to lvl up (still slow but better than nothing) 

2-I do get your point there. it took me some time getting all of the mods that AW has. it can be a pain to get them all, especially since some only drop from corpus which have a low spawn rate compared to grineer. even though, try using a loot detector aura on ur WF to get the best results, they still fly away but you'll be able to catch some of them 

(I'm willing to give you free AW mods if you like. glad to help anyone trying to and likes to play AW) 

3- have to disagree on you with that. odonata is like excalibur, it can do it all. you have to realize that it's have little bit of everything, defense, offense, utility, speed and health/shields. it's the perfect start AW. most people hate it cos they hate archwing in general. but trust me, don't jump to itzal so fast. it has good abilities as well, but for a newbie, with it's low health/shield and inexperienced in AW in general. it can be a death trap 

stick to ur odonata, learn and feel the gameplay, then change to other AWs 

as for weapons: all melees are basically the same, they can all 1-hit if modded, including the veritux, so don't give up on it, u don't need to farm other melees if u don't want to

for guns, the imperator is the 2nd best arch-gun...seriously! there's nothing better than a machine gun in space, it has good clip and dmg, good reload (ammo regen I mean) and good accuracy, plus...it's kinda stupid giving a non-auto starter gun >.> it's already hard hitting something in AW.

and I agree about farming weps in AW. but like I said, the starters are already good, u don't need to push urself to get new weapons 

 

[LABAL]

1 hour ago, SilvaDreams said:

1) Learn to use shift and ctrl

2) Move beyond the tunnel missions and into an open map

That's not what I mean.
You can move up and down, sure, BUT there is up and down. It's locked to Z-axis. There should be no "down" in space. Especially not if there's a planet somewhere off to the side.

This is especially noticeable in comparison to games like Space Engineers or Shattered Horizon, a First Person Shooter, of all things!

Edited April 5, 2016 by LABAL

[Pavelord]

I like archwing, but i won't deny some of its issues, since its the gamemode that has made me cave into buying equipment the most, I particularly prefer open space maps, thought I don't hate corpus maps, sometimes I feel like there is an excess of crevices and bumps inside the tunnels that prevents you from getting a clean speed run through the map, that's where bump by bump the mission could get a little annoying.

I'm one part away from kazsas and phaedra but those are in the defense missions which I really don't like to play.

But stil I won't go as far as call it a failure, sure there some problems with the drops and people could get annoyed from the distance or size of things, but I think they have made a good job  measuring AW powers from being broken.

[LazyBlissIV]

I think if DE synergized warframes and their abilities with the archwing itself, archwing would blend more smoothly with the game as a whole.  As it stands, archwing feel much more like a mini game.

[Hypernaut1]

AW needs more a-b objectives style missions. 

[reluctantNovelist]

Honestly I'm a pretty big fan of archwing, but because the missions for the unlocks are the most tedious ones, and rarely give out anything useful I just never play it. The Jordas Boss fight is boring as F***, interception is my least favorite mission type because of all the waiting around, and thats really all there is.

Not to mention sharkwing is way way way too slow and unused. As far as I can tell the sharkwing survival mission might as well not have sharkwing in it at all, cause theres no water enemies. Which honestly just contributes to the whole mess that is leveling the damn things. 

I love the tunnel runs tho, its always really satisfying to fly through them at super high speed, weaving in and out of combat quickly using the slide and melee attacks. On the other hand they still end up lacking. 

Add to that that I just got Elytron despite grinding for it since it was first introduced, and that its abilities fall to the same scaling issues as everything else in this game, its hard to even want to touch archwing at all. 

It has a lot of potential tho, I hope DE gives it the love it deserves.

[TARINunit9]

11 hours ago, xaanos said:

As the difficulty ramps up, don't add harder enemies. Add more enemies. Explosions and lasers flying everywhere

This was confirmed to be what they plan to add back in Devstream 70 or 71

[AXCrusnik]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

AW needs more a-b objectives style missions. 

I think some kind of Cargo Escort... basically AW Hijack (shield drain not necessary) would suit it well.

[Campaigner]

11 hours ago, xaanos said:

Add more enemies. Explosions and lasers flying everywhere, give the Archwings more interesting abilities, make them cheaper so you can always be casting. You should be a god of death plowing through swarms of hundreds of enemies. Not hacking away, spamming E to see a healthbar of a single enemy slowly drop.

I have to agree on this suggestion. The question is whether the code can handle larger groups of enemies.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Campaigner

[Rakosta_Kai]

For my part, I don't have anything against Archwing.

...Or Sharkwing.

Both are nifty starts.

I would just want to see more exploration/iteration opportunities and less of the linear stuff.

Ideally, I'd rather see more Gundam/Robotech/Armored Core-esque missions put forward where the frames went in fully equipped and it was all seamless.

Example:

Mission is in a cityscape on a planet and frames are able to do their normal thing on the ground (run, traverse, sneak, parkour, and etc). When/If Gun-ships/ Enemy heavy artillery/ Aerial Boss  arrives we can contact Ordis from the ground to deploy the Archwing Attachments.

Don't make it a requirement, but an option. 

So make it possible to be beaten without the Archwing but really difficult (powers have X% reduced effect, etc).

Make the buildings interactive so that I can choose to explore them or climb them or sneak them to get a vantage point for a better shot at the mob from the roof of the building.

Stuff like that leaves me with a pile of building blocks that lets me address the challenge my own way as opposed to addressing it in a scripted linear format.

[FoxyKabam]

15 hours ago, xaanos said:

Take a page from the book of Zone of the Enders. As the difficulty ramps up, don't add harder enemies. Add more enemies. Explosions and lasers flying everywhere, give the Archwings more interesting abilities, make them cheaper so you can always be casting. You should be a god of death plowing through swarms of hundreds of enemies. Not hacking away, spamming E to see a healthbar of a single enemy slowly drop.

I think it'd be more interesting if there were some truly massive enemies to deal with on top of the swarms

like large multi-room sized ships that need to be taken out from the inside, room sized asteroid bunkers full of space grineer, grineer ships with weak points (vor's ship)

 

 

[WindigoTG]

All I need from Archwing is the reason to play it after I got and forma'd all the gear. Some valuable reward  worth playing for.

Also Void Archwing and Sortie Archwing would be lovely, otherwise archwing is a wasted potential.

 

Oh, and faster, more intense defence.

[Stouty22]

I enjoy flying around in space every once in awhile, I do not enjoy how long it takes to level gear in AW compaired to normal game. You fix that and I'll be happy.

[Raphaello]

Since I've already made the points I felt were missing from the thread... I'd just like to chime in this time and say I prefer Sharkwing to Archwing... and also, has anybody here played Freelancer? That old Microsoft game is actually more fun than Sharkwing multiplied by Archwing. >.>

[Schregger]

I think what would make the archwing missions more fun is if they werent just the standard missions types, but in space with fancy jetpacks. That and that your Archwing gear needs like half the affinity it needs now to max level.