Corpus nullifiers

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, cghawk said:

yeah well they're bosses, you expect them to be stronger and thus less affected by such terrifying abilities, nullifiers however are just small fry and shouldn't hold such a power.

the gear wheel? it's highly impractical, you gotta stand still, hold Q and select the item you want to use, though I have no idea how that even helps against nullifiers. right tool for the job? do you not mean only tool for the job? because the only weapons that belong in a corpus mission are basically high rate of fire weapons which is why nullifiers are so badly designed

It's not just the bosses. It's just been a long time since I last played a Legend of Zelda that I can't actually name anything in particular.

You grab a hammer to drive a nail. That's the right tool for the job. There are other tools that can do the same thing, but not as well.

Same with Nullifiers. High-rate-of-fire weapons do the job best, but aren't the only tool. If you think they are the only tool, then you haven't been facing you challenges with an open mind.

9 minutes ago, Sigmas71 said:

Its lore breaking.

Elaborate.

I've argued this argument to death and I can hammer this one in again if you want an earnest argument.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

10 minutes ago, Sigmas71 said:

SNIP

 

I disagree.  It's that simple.  I've played against the same enemies with many different builds, frames, and weapons and do not share your experience or position.  You may not want to accept that, but that is how it is.  We can disagree on something because neither of our opinions are even remotely close to objective truth, so it's perfectly normal for us to draw different conclusions.  Thus is life lol.  You have shared your opinion, and I mine. 

I personally rather enjoy that they mix up things and would love to see other factions get units that knock out powers as the go to option in every single situation.  Again, just my opinion.

[cghawk]

Just now, Inarticulate said:

It's not just the bosses. It's just been a long time since I last played a Legend of Zelda that I can't actually name anything in particular.

You grab a hammer to drive a nail. That's the right tool for the job. There are other tools that can do the same thing, but not as well.

Same with Nullifiers. High-rate-of-fire weapons do the job best, but aren't the only tool. If you think they are the only tool, then you haven't been facing you challenges with an open mind.

Elaborate.

I've argued this argument to death and I can hammer this one in again if you want an earnest argument.

do elaborate how I can efficiently destroy nullifier bubbles with a bow, sniper, shotgun, flintlock style primary or revolver style secondaries, this is the problem right here, my rank 30 6 forma paris prime is outclassed by a rank 0 no forma furis when it comes to destroying nullifier bubbles, that's just bad design.

sure, you should use the more ''efficient tool'' but once there are more then 2 nullifiers overlapping you can be shooting your paris prime for 1 minute straight and still not kill them.

[----Dante----]

idk what you had problem with

not a single excavator destroyed

and team was made of mag, nova, ash and me as volt

 

and this is 65~min solo of high lvl corpus survival as Volt

i had 0 problem with any of corpus units , i would go longer but sadly life support stoped droping and i ran out of oxygen ;-;

Edited August 4, 2016 by Dante123pl

[Sigmas71]

Just now, Inarticulate said:

Elaborate.

Seriously? If the nulli field was a valid thing to have, why strap it to the back of some lumbering oaf? Why not embed the shield generators into something more usefull like say, THE SPY VAULTS, or the ENTIRE CORPUS FLEET. You can argue "it could be expensive hurdur" but then we haven't been playing the same game because i've killed enough nullis in any random corpus mission to line an entire starship with silly bubbles and then some. Clearly they arent opposed to splurging if indeed the bubble is an ultra-expensive miracle of fringe technology. Rather than a lazily coded "solution" to warframes being op. 

[Redthirst]

2 hours ago, Inarticulate said:

None of these are capable of shielding other squishy unarmored Corpus units from the hail of bullets and powers coming from our Warframes.

Um, that's not what Nullifiers are even supposed to be doing. That's what Arctic Eximus do.

[BulletsforTeeth]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)geomancer1980 said:

I disagree.  It's that simple.  I've played against the same enemies with many different builds, frames, and weapons and do not share your experience or position.  You may not want to accept that, but that is how it is.  We can disagree on something because neither of our opinions are even remotely close to objective truth, so it's perfectly normal for us to draw different conclusions.  Thus is life lol.  You have shared your opinion, and I mine. 

I personally rather enjoy that they mix up things and would love to see other factions get units that knock out powers as the go to option in every single situation.  Again, just my opinion.

Except they mix nothing up, particularly with weaponry. They simply promote the same, stale loadouts, never anything creative. That's why a vast majority of us dislike them, in addition to the redicoulous spawn rate and the ability to destroy active, fixed powers. Stopping AOE powers, and wiping buffs and providing a ballistic shield to their allies is all fine and good, but they mix nothing up in their current state.

Edited August 4, 2016 by BulletsforTeeth

[The__Q]

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

 

The same reason why some Legend of Zelda's bosses are immune to Link's sword. Our tools should be powerful, but not omnipotent. We have a Warframe, 3 weapons, and a gear wheel at our disposal and we should be making good use of our ability to have the right tool for the job.

 

Literally every zelda boss past (i think the snes games?) has given you an item previously, taught you how to use said item, and then you fight a boss specifically designed around that item.

nullifiers are:

1. your item is worthless.

(1.5 and don't bring up "use a high ROF weapon hurr durr" because when you have counters to things, you should have a method to switch weapons/counters you can use)

2. the only instructions you have are just shoot it.

(2.5 the options for fighting everything else in the game are near limitless)

3. it is specifically designed to counter YOU instead of your items countering it.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by The__Q

[Arkvold]

2 hours ago, Prinny13 said:

And how about another type of Nullies, this unite is melee only and it charge us (John Prodman's older brother), instead of bubble, it emits EMP when its near us to disable our active abilities?

You just described Lecta Scrambus.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

8 minutes ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

Except they mix nothing up, particularly with weaponry. They simply promote the same, stale loadouts, never anything creative. That's why a vast majority of us dislike them, in addition to the redicoulous spawn rate and the ability to destroy active, fixed powers. Stopping AOE powers, and wiping buffs and providing a ballistic shield to their allies is all fine and good, but they mix nothing up in their current state.

That's the thing I don't see a vast majority hating on them.  I see small groups every couple weeks for the most part.  I just don't see them as limiting to my game play at all, and making me have to react differently to them than other units.  I rather enjoy them.  Just my opinion though.

[----Dante----]

1 hour ago, Arrjo said:

Since when having to actually shoot things became "annoying" in the shooter game?

problem is DE for too long ignore balance issues where players spam powers and insta kill or perma CC anything in the range, which sadly generated very lazy and skilles playerbase, now you see tons of complaints about 1 unit that can make this game a bit chalanging.

[jinxeverything]

11 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

You just described Lecta Scrambus.

Oh, i tried......

[kubbi]

A lot of people seem to think people complaining about nullifiers find them difficult to deal with. I'd like to make it clear that they can be dealt with but are extremely annoying in the process.

They spawn too much, limit warframe builds and weapon choices and promote mindless automated bullet hosing where no skill is involved. The corpus are the fun police in this game.

[NightElve]

21 minutes ago, Dante123pl said:

 

not a single excavator destroyed

and team was made of mag, nova, ash and me as volt

 

and this is 65~min solo of high lvl corpus survival as Volt

i had 0 problem with any of corpus units , i would go longer but sadly life support stoped droping and i ran out of oxygen ;-;

how do you say you don't know what i had the problem with? did you read the title and later forget what it was all about??

mind you we were MR 18,21,20,22 we obliterate those nullifiers like nothing else the moment they appear.

2 hours ago, NightElve said:

they're obnoxious in an arbitrary way that severely reduces the game's fun factor.

why bring about no extractor destroyed? you seem to have lost the main thing being discussed on this thread, it's all about them reducing the games fun factor, a simple i don't mind them is ok, rather than post all this irrelevant stuff.

[----Dante----]

4 minutes ago, NightElve said:

 it's all about them reducing the games fun factor

maybe reducing fun factor for you ,

i find it fun fighting them.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Arrjo said:

As long as I can just roll into the bubble and annihilate them they are not more annoying than any other unit.

So which frame are you actually playing?

(tl;dr warning: just read @kubbi 's post)

Yes, Nullies by themselves are easy to kill if you have a toxic melee weapon, but since that's the ONLY counter to them it's still horrible, horrible design. Here's a list of things that don't have fun against Nullies:

• bows
• grenade launchers
• sniper rifles
• most shotguns
• glaives
• castanas/talons
• Chroma
• Ivara
• Wukong
• Nezha
• Limbo
• Loki
• Mesa
• Mirage
• Equinox
• Nekros
• Valkyr
• Banshee
• Technically Ash, as cheap as he is
• certain Rhinos

I simply cannot look at that list and believe that Nullifiers are well-designed

Edited August 4, 2016 by TARINunit9

[Grumpy]

I like the nullifiers, they keep groups on their toes.  You can't just put up a bubble, and everyone goes running off leaving the pods undefended.   If it pops the bubble and you loose, it's nobody's fault but the players, and I like that.  Heck, people run off with no bubble protecting it and loose the match anyways.  I like it the way it is, make people actually play for a change )

[Magnulast]

1 hour ago, Sigmas71 said:

Another day, another nulli thread. Oh boy. And look, the usual "lmfao they're easy, git gud, just melee/cheese them, they add challenge" crowd is already here. Wonderful.

This unit is a bandaid fix that has long overstayed its welcome. Its lore breaking. Its frustrating as all hell. It renders everything useless except for automatic weapons. It makes zero sense from any standpoint for them to exist. Promotes cheese. Punishes most styles of gameplay. PLEASE KEEP REQUESTING TO REMOVE THEM.

unless you actually like cheap countermeasures, lazy balancing, terrible enemy design, and limiting your entire game to a few weapons and "tactics". (slide killing everything and praying there isnt a zap osprey ready to instagib you with its mines).

Countless suggestions have been made. Scoped sniper shots should go through the bubble unimpeded. Also arrows. Let the bubble have a weakspot. Let it have a small duration. Let it block AOE powers and weapons ONLY (this was its sole original purpose), etc. But nope, all they get is buffed. 

The devs have made it clear by now that Cheeseframe is actually working as intended. Players having a 5hitty game experience, every corpus mission being a gearcheck, etc. ITS ALL HERE TO STAY :) enjoy

  Reveal hidden contents

 

(copy pasted from https://forums.warframe.com/topic/683261-corpus-nullifiers/?page=1)

 

 

It makes sense lore wise, it clearly stated to have carrying unstable energy. And since zanuka exists, it should be common sense that this is not lore breaking. Espically when you consider this to be on JUPITER.

Next, "Countless" suggestions does not equal "Good" Suggestions.

All I've seen are 5 AWFUL suggestions:

1: Let snipers have puncthrough on the bubbles.

2: Let bow's arrows go through the bubbles

3: Once the bubble is destroyed 

4: Let shotguns one-shot the bubble.

5: Remove the bubble, remove the enemy entirely.

You just making a weak unit worse,

The reason why cheese frame exists, is because everyone reacts like horrendously on reworks.

Most abilties are become a "Toggle" ability, or a "non-interference" ability

A toggle ability like Ember's WOF

and 

A non-interfence ability like mag's Polarize and Magentize.

All you want is NERF NERF NERF NERF, it doesn't make a enemy better, the enemy should be ENGAGING, not a nussicace that YOU WANT.

It needs a rework, and it NEEDS to fit it's role of defense, but it should not be as selective as this.

It should nullfiy your powers if you are standing in one position spamming,

it should defend it's allies

it should be moved to a higher tier of spawn, to corpus tech.

(Remove bubble, engages special sheild on allies nearby decreasing' powers effect damage wise and slower status procs, homing high status magnetic lanka, (Homing does not scale, accuracy is capped lower))

Edited August 4, 2016 by Magnulast
added more information.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Im late?

Nullifiers are the definition of "no fun" or "boring" enemy in a game.

I dont know why even they exist.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

DE, fix Nullifier.

Seriously.

[Semoke]

I rather swallow glass shards with razorblades instead of encountering these units.

If you want to reduce the spam cheese in the game, why not lower the maximum power efficency instead of creating these horrible corpus mission/void(fissure) ruining units. Inb4 biased baseless git gud comments.

This game was so stress relieving.

What where you thinking DE?

 

[Magnulast]

Welp post was moved.

But seriously, nullifiers are to restricted in approach(Unlike every other corpus enemy)

Edited August 4, 2016 by Magnulast
added more information...Post was moved

[TheGodofWiFi]

Maybe you should

git gud?

In all seriousness, DE shouldn't remove them. Just make them less OP with their one-shot kills.

[Marine027]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

So which frame are you actually playing?

(tl;dr warning: just read @kubbi 's post)

Yes, Nullies by themselves are easy to kill if you have a toxic melee weapon, but since that's the ONLY counter to them it's still horrible, horrible design. Here's a list of things that don't have fun against Nullies:

• bows
• grenade launchers
• sniper rifles
• most shotguns
• glaives
• castanas/talons
• Chroma
• Ivara
• Wukong
• Nezha
• Limbo
• Loki
• Mesa
• Mirage
• Equinox
• Nekros
• Valkyr
• Banshee
• Technically Ash, as cheap as he is
• certain Rhinos

I simply cannot look at that list and believe that Nullifiers are well-designed

Sorry to pop your bubble, but Chroma's breath can annihilate them easialy, Ivara's Artemis Bow with her mutlishot hitting it almsot makes it vansih instantly aswell, Nekros revived allys from Shadow of the Dead can shoot at it form range, Shotguns bullet spread still shredder it since it counts as multiple shots, Valkyr can just slash at the shield itself without walking in while staying invincible. And the others just have ot comapre there lack with certain weapons, fast shootign secondarys etc.

 

Back to the topic itself:

Also what do people expect with Synoid absuing Mirages, Bladestorming Ashs killing any faction, Mesa makes enemys uselss to shoot at you while sitll has her own resistance buff (not in a abusive way on Mesa), etc. People need to start instead of complaining, maybe find a work around without abusing things, having a Sniper or Bow? Use a automatic pistol to compare, can't use certain powers on them? also compare that with your equipment or your team. Nullifier gets close to your frost globe? Make them then your primary target and leave the others to the rest of your team.

I fully understand how annyoing they can be, but how many threads of this do we have by now, i think by now they won't remove them anymore or nerf them to much. If people stop abusing certain combos maybe, and yes you can't prevent all of that in a game with so many combiantions of weapons or frames, and they whould maybe not need to make such enemys.

Think about it how you basicly you just could also take a Trinity and spawn AoE attacks and that without Nullifiers, the Bursas whould stand no chance even or the other abiltiy preventing units because they still whould get hit by allready activated powers from range. What else whould they have left to prevent such, Nullifiers and there shileds are squishy and weapons and frames are different for a purpsoe, what you expect using slow shooting weapons against such enemys. You have to comapre it somehow, and yes you can't in sorties like "only bow" but then you have ot use antoher frame to compare it, they all work different for a reason, same for the different kind of weapons and it is normal that certain weapons "gosh" may not be as effective against certain things, same for damage types, what a suprise, you also might while we at it might want to complain about like Lephantis or Vay Hek bringing the wrong weapons having to shoot only certain points and running out of ammo not bringing a ammo refill?

[(XBOX)dude1286]

The list that was posted earlier forgot Ember, Hydroid and Trinity.

Maybe have our abilities on silent when we go into the bubble and then they resume when we leave it. Would actually make the most efficient way of killing the nullifiers actually feasible for half the frames in the game.