Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[Azrael]

Just now, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

you try paying attention to your drops and running to them when 1h in a mot survival getting shot down. lets not pretend that having life support vacuum isnt basicly nessisary in end game runs and get back to the point i asked about 

Agreed. If you have so much LS that you don't want to pick up too many LS modules, then you just started that survival and it doesn't matter anyway. The whole point of survival is to kill so many enemies that you constantly generate more LS, not to conserve PLS modules and plan out when to get them. At high levels parkour is a necessity.

[Leonix13]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

you try paying attention to your drops and running to them when 1h in a mot survival getting shot down. lets not pretend that having life support vacuum isnt basicly nessisary in end game runs and get back to the point i asked about 

I do it all the time, never use vacuum... I wonder how you guys manage Excavation or Mobile Defense missions.

[IRVoidGuru]

Just now, Leonix13 said:

I do it all the time, never use vacuum... I wonder how you guys manage Excavation or Mobile Defense missions.

mobile Defense missions are hardly the same as if you leave the defense area at any point your not understanding the mission type. the data mass pops Right out in front of you and you move along. Excavation is an annoyance that i manage through easily. but we are not talking about an annoying game type, this is Survival.

where to Create a mass distraction ( witch tenno misstranslate into mass Murder) and keep the game mode going , paying attention to drops are not exactly the intention behind it, the intent of the game mode was simply to Keep Up enough Kills to keep going. how does having life support being obtainable by these mods or my need or this information harm you or any other player?

Back to the original subject at hand ( again ) i think that ALL 3 of these vacuum mods should be at least considered for the ability to obtain life support. it wont hurt anything and would only help any player using it 

 

[Troll_Logic]

12 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

I do it all the time, never use vacuum... I wonder how you guys manage Excavation or Mobile Defense missions.

You're just a much better player than I am.

[Leonix13]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

mobile Defense missions are hardly the same as if you leave the defense area at any point your not understanding the mission type. the data mass pops Right out in front of you and you move along. Excavation is an annoyance that i manage through easily. but we are not talking about an annoying game type, this is Survival.

where to Create a mass distraction ( witch tenno misstranslate into mass Murder) and keep the game mode going , paying attention to drops are not exactly the intention behind it, the intent of the game mode was simply to Keep Up enough Kills to keep going. how does having life support being obtainable by these mods or my need or this information harm you or any other player?

Back to the original subject at hand ( again ) i think that ALL 3 of these vacuum mods should be at least considered for the ability to obtain life support. it wont hurt anything and would only help any player using it 

 

It was a joke as in those are missions where stuff you need can't be picked up for you... Same with survival, there isn't a mod to activate life support for you, it apart of the game, search for support and health and energy, vacuum is a crutch that hurts the role of other mods or powers that feed your team health/energy... risk/reward.

[Brasten]

4 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

vacuum is a crutch

That 89% of the player base uses. Maybe it's a "crutch" because the loot system is broken. Ever think about that?

After all you use real crutches to support limbs that are broken and can't support themselves.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Brasten

[Leonix13]

30 minutes ago, Brasten said:

That 89% of the player base uses. Maybe it's a "crutch" because the loot system is broken. Ever think about that?

After all you use real crutches to support limbs that are broken and can't support themselves.

Vacuum is broken... If vacuum is that essential for survival over frames with survival powers there is something wrong.

 

Edit: to be clear I am not talking about vacuum picking up ammo or mods, that's okay imo, but if you're telling me you can't survive without vacuum picking up health, or energy then that's wrong, and even worse with a mission specific drop like life support.... There are frames who have given up other powers so they can support the team, as well as a bunch of mods.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Leonix13

[DSpite]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Gamehowitzer said:

That's exactly what i'm trying to say. Give some love to the other sentinels. :)

Can you please explain to me at what stage "Sentinels get killed because they are too weak", because if you just say "after 2 hours in Defense missions", I'm going to go strangle a kangaroo.

They don't get targeted much - on purpose, DE has basically hardwired that in - and they only get killed usually when level 100+ Bombards land a damn rocket next to you.

If DE wanted to kill Sentinels, they could make the AI just alpha them off the field with multiple units. Every. Single. Time.

There no point making them "tougher", it would be just easier for them to pull even less aggro because "reasons".

[marelooke]

4 hours ago, TheScytale said:

It will still be the toughest, but it won't remain useful in any given situation anymore. After the rework, it'll be next to useless in a melee-only run, compared to Djinn or some other CC sentinel.

That being said, I wouldn't mind a buff to the other sentinels.

Sweeper with Blast is pretty good CC tbh... (could put it on another Sentinel, sure, never saw the point though)

Edited September 19, 2016 by marelooke

[RistN]

3 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

carrier is used due to 1 mod. vacuum, and after the vacuum change we will see others used. it has very little to do with these stats and more to do with 1 mod

You are right.I would use any other sentinel who use's vacuum no matter what their stats are.

[KesslerCOIL]

On 9/18/2016 at 3:59 AM, Mak_Gohae said:

another "new player" excuse, eh?

New players dont bullet twirl their way through the mission, new players dont even sprint some times, new players run around opening all lockers and breaking all containers.

When was the last time you played a low level mission and compensated for the new player and didnt ignore them to see what they were doing?

I do this all the time. Vac is the farthest thing from their minds. Not everyone is a min maxer.

I used the new player experience as another excuse, there are loads of reasons that Universal Vacuum would/could be beneficial.  
It'd allow more use of other sentinels and companions, or even no companion at all. Diversity with companions is something we dont really have atm and there are so many to choose from, so making it exclusively to sentinels and broken up into 3 mods? that would just allow for more  use of sentinels and not kubrows/kavats, not to mention it seems completely unnecessary to break it into 3 mods in the first place, like it required for us to be as annoyed with the devs with every change.  
  
Universal Vacuum isnt really a hard choice, it's very clear what benefits it has and there are essentially no downsides other than perhaps a reduced appreciation for loot, but that's always been there since the vast majority of players have almost exclusively used Carrier/Vacuum anyway. 

[letir]

2 hours ago, Leonix13 said:

Vacuum is broken... If vacuum is that essential for survival over frames with survival powers there is something wrong.

QoL feature is brocken, because it can pick up once-in-millenum health orb. Right.

[RistN]

As i already said in similar posts about a plan for carrier changes...

I dont know why vacuum is split in 3 parts.Why complicate things.Usage of carrier has proven that Vacuum is must have and it deserves to be non exclusive mod,ability.

I even wrote a topic long time ago proposing that Carrier gets reworked and Vacuum made a mod for all sentinels.In this topic of mine many suggested that this vacuum ability should be all Warframes default passive and i dont see nothing wrong with that too.

Ninjas have their mind set on fight,ninjas dont go around looking and bending down for drops :)

[MJ12]

DE, do you remember coptering?

For those of you new players, certain melee weapons allowed you to basically 'bulletjump' back in the day. However, if you didn't have one of those equipped you were out of luck. DE could have just decided to make coptering a mod split across several weapons, but DE's solution to this problem was good.

DE chose to give all of us the ability to lunge in a direction rapidly via bullet-jumping. And then they gave us mods which increased that ability. This is what I'd call a good solution.

Give every Warframe, for example, a 6m pickup radius (half of carrier's). Then make the old Carrier Precept equippable on any sentinel which adds even more to that radius, a la Animal Instinct. Let's say 20% per upgrade, so at r5 you get 220% of the base pickup radius, or a little more than Carrier's original radius. There. Now picking up loot isn't awful by default and you have a mod which lets you get a larger pickup radius if you want that.

This would be the 'compromise' solution. What we're getting is a monkey's paw wish, where our desires are translated into the most fundamentally passive-aggressive action possible.

[Valaska]

Why would you make vacuum literally anything? At all? Its not fun, its not an interesting mechanic. Making it a weapon is just horrible, forcing you to use more mod slots in already uninspired/borring sentinels etc again FORCING you to not use Kubrows or Catbrows isn't good. Why make Vacuum ANYTHING?

Just make vacuum the default way loot is picked up. There's no sense in having it as some equipment, mod, or anything, it should just work like this already. This is silly all these suggestions to make something in the game that is just flat out annoying and a bother. Its a huge improvement to the quality of life to the game and will let people actually have fun in chosing their sentinel, kubrow, or cavat, instead of going "Oh well I guess I can have a sentinel but i need to at least put in THREE vacuum mods, which is going to be absolutely vital but make already pretty meh sentinels EVEN WORSE OFF just to have it sucking up loot."

 

Seriously DE, why? Whats up with this mechanic and the obsession to make life generally harder for people. Just make it a natural ability on all warframes, no exilius, no aura, nothing that's going to make loadouts even MORE limited or MORE static, just give us vacuum on the warframe. Please!

[shyguyk]

For loot? why not?

For ammo and orbs? Walk over to it ya lazy bum.

[Valaska]

3 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

For loot? why not?

For ammo and orbs? Walk over to it ya lazy bum.

I could see ammo and orbs being walkover-able, but sheesh loot should be implicit in being picked up.

[Xzorn]

The only problem with it being a Passive to all frames is that  there are people (Circus Folk), who don't want it.

If they added a check box in the options menu it would work out though.

[Homer87]

From the sounds of it, they are taking the simplicity of vacuum and over complicating it with more mods and adding types of vacuums. We will see as the details are ironed out later though.

[StinkyPygmy]

I think the issue is that for some reason people see vacuum as essential when its not actually that great unless your doing the standard "Stand still and spam (with occasional moving to circumvent AFK timer) " farm method. Its funny, when carrier first came out I expected people to actually complain about vacuum and dub it "useless". Shows what I know.

I've personally never felt forced to use vacuum. To me its useful, but not essential or particularly better then ALL other sentinel abilities. I find wyrms radial knock down actually useful from time to time since they fixed it (still needs work though) and I'm also fond or Driga and Shades abilities. I use kubrows more now days and suhasa is my current main squeeze. All that aside I think having an innate vacuum radius for loot is fine, but honestly I don't think it will kill people to walk over, or at least really close to orbs and ammo to pick them up. I don;t think they should make a mod that applies vacuum to ammo and orbs either or we will get the same situation as we have now. People will for some reason feel forced to use it and not use it just because they want to. I would rather slot fast deflection or maglev over an ammo vacuum mod.

[Valaska]

3 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I think the issue is that for some reason people see vacuum as essential when its not actually that great unless your doing the standard "Stand still and spam (with occasional moving to circumvent AFK timer) " farm method. Its funny, when carrier first came out I expected people to actually complain about vacuum and dub it "useless". Shows what I know.

I've personally never felt forced to use vacuum. To me its useful, but not essential or particularly better then ALL other sentinel abilities. I find wyrms radial knock down actually useful from time to time since they fixed it (still needs work though) and I'm also fond or Driga and Shades abilities. I use kubrows more now days and suhasa is my current main squeeze. All that aside I think having an innate vacuum radius for loot is fine, but honestly I don't think it will kill people to walk over, or at least really close to orbs and ammo to pick them up. I don;t think they should make a mod that applies vacuum to ammo and orbs either or we will get the same situation as we have now. People will for some reason feel forced to use it and not use it just because they want to. I would rather slot fast deflection or maglev over an ammo vacuum mod.

It is not so much a thing where people can't do it, its just... Its not fun hunting down each and every single bit of loot and it removes fun directly from the game in a very real affect. So Vacuum is what makes warframe Ninja's in space, because I'm not starring down at the floor or having to mark the loot and stuff that drops like back in the old days before, and one of the reasons I stopped playing back then how much of a hassle it was just to pay attention to all the dropped stuff.

[artemisfortune]

Why are people so lazy that they can't push wasd or move their joystick to walk over something that takes maybe 5 seconds to do. Most of the farming maps are clustered into one area anyway. This Vacuum change is welcome.

[Valaska]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Why are people so lazy that they can't push wasd or move their joystick to walk over something that takes maybe 5 seconds to do. Most of the farming maps are clustered into one area anyway. This Vacuum change is welcome.

*sigh* Because most people aren't here to play farmville.

[artemisfortune]

56 minutes ago, Valaska said:

*sigh* Because most people aren't here to play farmville.

You aren't playing farmville. Jesus Christ. It takes 5 seconds if it's on the OTHER side of the biggest tile. You don't need every piece of loot and you still need to be near it for the vacuum effect to take place.

[StinkyPygmy]

Just now, Valaska said:

It is not so much a thing where people can't do it, its just... Its not fun hunting down each and every single bit of loot and it removes fun directly from the game in a very real affect. So Vacuum is what makes warframe Ninja's in space, because I'm not starring down at the floor or having to mark the loot and stuff that drops like back in the old days before, and one of the reasons I stopped playing back then how much of a hassle it was just to pay attention to all the dropped stuff.

Well thats one perspective. I guess I just personally never found that a hassle. I do that mindlessly without really having to think about it. Obviously thats just me, and don't get me wrong, I do use vacuum from time to time and I do understand its appeal, but i really cannot understand why its considered essential over all other companion abilities. You're already running around like a mad man any way so chances are you walk over most useful picks ups regardless. Vaccuums range isn't THAT big. But like I said: Loot vacuum? Sure. Ammo and orb vacuum? I think we can live without it as an innate ability at least.