Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Hypernaut1]

27 minutes ago, The-Tective said:

 

The new BS is still just an AoE nuke with a cutscene, the only difference is that before you spend 1 seecond casting it and watched a cutscene for 10 seconds and now you spend about 5 seconds casting it and then watch a 10 seconds cutscene. Teleport is still THE INTERACTIVE BLADE STORM (Manually teleport to a target and manually perform a finisher (or use the augment) = definition of interactive Blade Storm). Now i have to wait another 3 years till Ash finally gets a completely new ultimate. 

its not just a nuke now. You can target enemies in a wider range thats not based on a radius from center point.. There already have been instances where i enter an area and kill targets that wouldve been too far apart for old BS.

Im not saying this new one is better at killing mass enemies, but its not JUST the old AoE nuke with manual selecting. You can actually spread the killing across a wider range. Just yesterday i was helping defend and excavator while also targeting enemies around a downed tenno. 

[MindHunter]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

because not everyone runs around with a tonkor. BS can kill multiple enemies in a wider range than even the old BS could. i can mark enemies in two different areas now. I'll admit, i dont use my primary as much now with Ash, but your acting like BS doesnt out-damage any weapons. It does, and its still ignores armor. 

I do keep up with killing. I do my share. It may not be the old Ash where im just nuking every room i enter, but im still VERY efficient at killing. I ran yesterdays Excavation with Ash and his killing power was still very helpful and effective. The biggest problem i have with BS now is that he needs some invulnerability frames after BS or at least decreased enemy accuracy. Enemies begin shooting at me before i even regain control it seems. 

Ash is far more fun to me now TBH. New BS definiyely feels more assasin like

It's not like you can only use Tonkor to kill multiple enemies, pretty much any gun will do (a lot of weapons are actually viable), and I'm pretty sure it will end up being faster than marking them around. And I don't see how it's more fun now, when it's basically the same thing as before but the execution is far worse than before, and like you already said you keep dying at the end of it, mainly because you aren't killing said enemies unlike before. At the moment there is literally no need to use '4' at all, no real reason to use Ash either because other frames have better arsenal of abilities. Why is marking enemies that you probably won't even kill because of other teammates or lack of marks/damage more assassin like?

People really amaze me sometimes, I read a lot of posts saying: "I've changed my build like this or like that and now I love Ash.", it's not like before this you couldn't play non-ult Ash (yes Smoke Screen got improved a bit but let's be honest there was no reason for it not to be, when he's a fast & agile frame), though ult Ash was the most effective, and now he's not (that's the only thing that changed pretty much). You could go full duration with him and use Smoke Screen + Teleport to kill enemies before, and with the addition of the augment it was even better, and it wasn't any less fun that it is now.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

30 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

because not everyone runs around with a tonkor. BS can kill multiple enemies in a wider range than even the old BS could. i can mark enemies in two different areas now. I'll admit, i dont use my primary as much now with Ash, but your acting like BS doesnt out-damage any weapons. It does, and its still ignores armor. 

I do keep up with killing. I do my share. It may not be the old Ash where im just nuking every room i enter, but im still VERY efficient at killing. I ran yesterdays Excavation with Ash and his killing power was still very helpful and effective. The biggest problem i have with BS now is that he needs some invulnerability frames after BS or at least decreased enemy accuracy. Enemies begin shooting at me before i even regain control it seems. 

Ash is far more fun to me now TBH. New BS definiyely feels more assasin like

And your hoping your still invisible after the kill animation was over, And in higher levels 100-140 ash would be dead as soon as the kill animation was over. Good luck marking enemies 3 times each. 

The old BS i could jump right back in and not waste time marking. And it took me exactly 2 seconds for a full BS. Thats one kill animation.

If DE wanted a quick fix: To be honest old BS didnt need a whole lot changed, just needed more speed. Just like a ninja assassin should be.

Edited November 27, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[SquidTheSid]

4 hours ago, Inugami999 said:

Shuriken - unchanged (well a bit more dmg or a bit more accurate would be nice) - augment mod - unchanged

It's a fairly weak ability. It doesn't do much damage, has no scaling, and has no utility. Personally, I think it should have limited secondary mod scaling (bonus damage and multishot) and stagger enemies. A "Quiver" style system where you can change the damage and proc type of Shuriken (such as fire, gas, or viral) would be nice as well. It certainly needs a lot of love.

 

4 hours ago, Inugami999 said:

n - stagger nearby enemy and leave behind a smoke screen Ash/ally remain invisible while standing in it and stay invis + gain a speed buff for a short duration(half the duration of his current default smoke screen duration) upon exiting it(only Ash get this effect), enemy that are inside the smoke screen are open up for finisher and is count toward stealth multiplier if Ash/ally remain unseen (enemy outside smoke screen cannot see into the screen, but can hear noises) - augment mod - granting ally an 8 seconds speed buff when they leave the screen

Wait, so you only get 4 seconds of invisibility if you're not inside the smoke cloud? That sounds terrible. Smoke Screen doesn't need that much to be good. Buff the duration a bit (say 10 seconds) and upgrade the stagger to a blind (if we need to increase the energy cost to 50, so be it). Implementing the smoke cloud would be nice as well (where enemies in the Smoke cloud get blinded for half the duration of smoke screen) and it being throwable would be icing on the cake. 

 

4 hours ago, Inugami999 said:

Teleport - like how it is now with some minor change - does not stagger target and count toward stealth multiplier if unseen. augment mod - unchanged

 

Uh, if it doesn't stagger the target, how will you perform finishers? You're killing this ability

 

4 hours ago, Inugami999 said:

All finishers in this mode will use Ash's blade storm animation (without the camera angle change)

 

Let's not use them. They're awful in my opinion. Marking targets with Shurikens makes sense, though I think it should be 1 mark per shuriken. 

 

Smoke Cloud shouldn't reduce the cost of Bladestorm. Bladestorm's energy cost, at the minimum, needs to be half of what it is right now (I'm in favor of 7 energy), considering the old energy cost was almost a third of what it is now (or half if you're cloaked). 

 

We've got a chance to make Bladestorm's mark system really interesting, so why not go wild with it? Make marked enemies have reduced sight radius and be tracked through walls or on the minimap, maybe they could give bonus XP on kills? There's a lot we can do here to make it worthwhile.

Edited November 27, 2016 by SquidTheSid
rong thread

[str4dlin]

Hello everybody. 

Sorry my english (from now)
 

I play this game since 1st beta releases and I can say without lying that a good part of my lifetime as Tenno have been playing ash and enjoy as a kid. Not mostly because Bladestorm but melee gameplay and finishers.
Well. People use to talk about skills, how rework affects on the first view aspects but I am gonna talk about some improvements that give much more options to the gameplay.

One of my favourite build is not a build that people usually use. I made mine for my own and I dont know if someone else is using. 

The combo is to use ash + dark dagger with the syndicate mod. Stacking Blight.
Well. Now I dont know if for God`s Grace "Rakta dark dagger" appear. When I saw that I thought OMG this is based on my fu---ng life as Tenno. It is made for me  since it is not the more used weapon we can say.

Well. Here comes the Improvements that I can ensure are based on hours and hours of ash+Dark Dagger Gameplay.

Do whatever with values, change skills how u wish but PLEASE:

 - MAKE ASH BLADESTORM STACK BLIGHT SYNDICATE WEAPON BECAUSE IS A MELEE HIT WHAT IT DOES.

- IF POSIBLE, MAKE BLIGHT MODS EQUIPPED ON RAKTA DARK DAGGER MEANS IT STACK DOUBLE WHEN YOU KILL WITH THE WEAPON. BECAUSE THERE WAS YET A BLIGHT MOD FOR DARK DAGGER.

Why? Because the corrosive damage of blight works perfect with the not awesome base damage of dark dagger. It can does that forgotten weapons or not the best ones have a spot in our equipments and improve the game giving more chances to the player when he knows what he does.

Tenno

[Inugami999]

2 minutes ago, SquidTheSid said:

It's a fairly weak ability. It doesn't do much damage, has no scaling, and has no utility. Personally, I think it should have limited secondary mod scaling (bonus damage and multishot) and stagger enemies. A "Quiver" style system where you can change the damage and proc type of Shuriken (such as fire, gas, or viral) would be nice as well. It certainly needs a lot of love.

 

Wait, so you only get 4 seconds of invisibility if you're not inside the smoke cloud? That sounds terrible. Smoke Screen doesn't need that much to be good. Buff the duration a bit (say 10 seconds) and upgrade the stagger to a blind (if we need to increase the energy cost to 50, so be it). Implementing the smoke cloud would be nice as well (where enemies in the Smoke cloud get blinded for half the duration of smoke screen) and it being throwable would be icing on the cake. 

 

Uh, if it doesn't stagger the target, how will you perform finishers? You're killing this ability

 

Let's not use them. They're awful in my opinion. Marking targets with Shurikens makes sense, though I think it should be 1 mark per shuriken. 

 

Smoke Cloud shouldn't reduce the cost of Bladestorm. Bladestorm's energy cost, at the minimum, needs to be half of what it is right now (I'm in favor of 7 energy), considering the old energy cost was almost a third of what it is now (or half if you're cloaked). 

 

We've got a chance to make Bladestorm's mark system really interesting, so why not go wild with it? Make marked enemies have reduced sight radius and be tracked through walls or on the minimap, maybe they could give bonus XP on kills? There's a lot we can do here to make it worthwhile.

hhm good point, and I forgot about the stagger open target for finisher, what I meant was it just allow you to do the finisher instead of the stagger, my bad. Agreed with all of your other points

[StonedMakak]

4 hours ago, The-Tective said:

 Now i have to wait another 3 years till Ash finally gets a completely new ultimate. 

I'm hoping DE will see their folly with this rework. But the stark reality is that your are probably right.

After some more thought I've come to the conclusion that this may be one of the worst ability designs we have in game. And, I'm not talking about power strength, damage, energy consumption etc., I don't really care about those. I'm talking about mechanics.

1. It's redundant - the targeting minigame overlaps with simply shooting your guns. And when a multiple Forma gun is not enough, and you need more damage, new BS overlaps with Teleport and its augment, which are superior to BS due to one-hit kill potential and greater control.

2. The stealth applications of BS are trumped by every invisibility build. Especially Loki is laughing his &#! off, you can't here him though, becasue of Hushed Invisibility (you won't be able to hear his Tonkor either).

3.Body removal, really DE? With all the problems that plague stealth, or rather the husk of it, and you think that body removal is making a difference? Also, Nekros says hi and wants his corpses back.

4. It breaks the flow of combat - I do realize that some people like the cutscene, but it does not change the fact it completely removes player control on regular basis, for prolonged periods of time. Not to mention the plethora of bugs and handful of actual finishers in the cutscene. DOOM did finishers right - the animations were gory and had player input (finishers would vary depending on what part of the body player targeted, including different ones for right/left leg/arm), on top of being super fast and essentially optional.

5. It actually removes utility of a panic button - While I was one of the proponents of nerfing the complete invulnerability, I also did want it replaced with something useful for survivability but not as cheesy. Depending on various reworks, people had ideas about bullet evasion bonuses, reduced threat, status immunity, damage reductions etc. The panic button was not only lost, but now BS can leave you wide open to an attack after it's done.

The funny thing is, that I don't even want it reverted because the old BS is just as bad.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by tisdfogg

[Liacu]

I like the direction this redesign is going but I feel like Ash's Bladestorm should've been given some kind of buff since for all intents and purposes, this update was most definitely a nerf. (A much needed one) The lowered cost while invisible is not enough since pre-nerf Bladestorm was much more efficient in terms of energy per enemy. Mesa had a similar nerf but was compensated by being given the ability to use fire-rate mods which greatly improved her usability.

Since the main issue with Bladestorm is that you watch a cutscene and do nothing for a long period of time, maybe allow Ash to summon as many clones as there are marked enemies and attack all of them simultaneously, cutting the ability's long duration to a single finisher animation. (or 2-3 finishers for enemies with multiple marks) Maybe slow down the animation somewhat so people can more thoroughly enjoy the cinematic display while not taking too long.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Liacu

[Chroia]

Just took Ash for a quick spin in the weekly Clem survival.

Takeaways:
* Teleport change is very nice, though not much generally more useful than before.
* Smoke Screen change is utterly delicious.
* Blade Storm is pointless to use, now. It competes with my guns and does nothing that they don't already do better. The fact that it still goes into Cinematic Mode is either pro or a con, depending on who you ask.

To me it's a con.
It disables me, it's non-interactive, and it's not my preferred method of survivability.

Maaaybe I'd view it differently if I regularly played in content with a TTK of more than half a second... but such content requires sitting through a lot of scaling rampup and honestly that's not worth the effort.
Aside from which, if you're playing in such content, you have a anti-armor solution already, and Bladestorm's damage capped.
I'll stick with Teleport or Fatal Teleport tyvm. This has the added benefit of letting me not mod for Power Strength, freeing up 25%-40% of my mod slots.

[Dragazer]

Just started play testing more, and just seen that Ash got completely #*($%%@ for this "rework".

The new targeting system is completely fine but the numbers are completely garbage.

it costs 10 energy per attack for the new BS, meaning attacking 18 targets now costs 180 energy

WTF? what was the point of completely destroying the energy efficiency? 

Not only that but now a target can only be attacked a max of 3 times a cast, when before it was until the target died.

Why did you think it was a good idea to increase the energy cost and to reduce the amount of attacks?

Nobody ever complained about Blade storm's numbers, it was just the lack of interaction 

You guys promised a dmg boost for blade storm to make up for the fact that you have to manually target, but that is no where to be found why? 

The numbers definitely need tweaking:

• 5 energy per target, 3 while invis at base
• Targets should be attacked by clones until they die like before this "rework"
• Allow us to press 4 again while in animation to exit and let the clones do the work
• Dmg boost as was previously said

 

But knowing DE, they're just going to ignore this entire feedback thread just like Excalibur's, or the passives thread

 

Remember these?

21 pages of feedback and 11 pages of feedback and yet not a single thing was changed.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Dragazer

[MistressMoonpaw]

Okay, first things first, i hate the rework, but give me a chance to explain why and offer ideas for a more fun rework. Of course this is an opinion piece but ill stay objective as much as possible, so here goes:

The so called "interactivity" they added to bladestorm is more of a damper than anything else. First you have to hit 4 to go into the "target mode" which in itself sucks. I wanna hit 4 and be in the action immediately. For (almost) all ultis in Warframe you hit the button and youre in the action instantly (ignoring cast time). Embers ulti -> Instant result, Frosts ulti -> Instant result, Rhinos ulti -> Instant result.  Ash's ulti -> Nothing for a good while until you acquired targets, many of which are already killed by others before you even hit 4 again to fire it off, more to that later.

Its not interactive, its tedious and takes a while (compared to other actions that would kill a lot faster, like for example....just shooting! If i have to target anyway, i might as well just aim and shoot)

Then of course, the 3 hit limit per target. Why? just why. Almost all damage based ultis dont have a hit limit. At least not that severe.

A big problem is the delay before the bladestorm is actually executed. Many of your targets can and will already be killed by others before you start the actual bladestorm. Its frustrating and not fun.

So in short, the rework is a huge cut to bladestorms dps potential and a big nerf to ash.

So heres part 2, my idea for an interactive, more fun Bladestorm.

Same as the pre-rework bladestorm, EXCEPT, before each hit execution youre given a short time frame to input a sort of combo (like a meelee combo) from a list of 3-4 combos that cycle through. Like UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, MELEE BUTTON and the combo input dictates what attack is executed next. You could expand this further. Lets say your melee weapon has fire damage (either through mods or innately) it adds a fire combo to your roster of possible combos. Lets call it Fire slash for a lack of better names. And that specific combo has an added X% to inflict a burn status effect/dot. Or your weapon has electric damage, that adds a DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, MELEE BUTTON combo and then  Ash teleports above the enemy and comes crashing down with his blade (kinda like a lightning strike) and it inflicts a different status effect with a X% chance. Of course there will be a roster of basic combos too. Then, of course, if you go on a low level mission for some reason (it happens often, lets be honest) you can just input no combo and get a basic attack but the penalty for this is lowered/half damage. It allows you to still farm lazily on low level missions where you dont have to be at your best but if you really want to shine youll have to do good at the combos and actually interact.

Of course, i am aware this would be a lot of work, but i think its work worth doing for a FUN and INTERACTIVE Bladestorm. Youd need custom animations and a re-write of the skill again. But im confident that it would make bladestorm more fun and still interactive. It would also give me some more control. Like, for instance, if i face enemies weak to fire, id prefer to do the before mentioned fire slash combo as often as i can.

 

[Robert_Cop_2]

The rework was just a merciless (but deserved) nerf that didn't solved the main problem with bladestorm: the cutscene. His ulti is the antithesis of interaction, you press 4 and you wait while the game is playing with himself, it's like youtube ads in Warframe. Shuriken has that one augment that is literally the worst method to strip armor available in the game and works against bladestorm and teleport since both of them ignore armor, buffing the damage with scaling wouldn't break the game imho. This rework doesn't feel finished, Ash is still in a bad position and I hope  we don't have to wait a year for some improvements.

[Mover-NeRo]

I like the rework. It open paths for more balanced builds. yes its not so powerfull in end game but just pressing 4 and watching movie is just bad.

What would i like to change is the killing animation length. Why can we just spawn one clone for each marked target ?  With old Bladestorm it would be too powerfull but now that you actauly need to mark your targets its not necessary to watch each kill.

It would feel much faster and it would reduce the time the targets are locked for killing.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Mover-NeRo

[Aurea_Hiigara]

Bladestorm could be kind of cool if it had a trigger function to deal critical hits. Final Fantasy 8 had something like that during Squall's limit break, pressing the trigger just as his sword connected with the enemy would make the hit count as a critical hit.

[LouseFur]

Personally, I don't mind the changes they made, as I prefer his Fatal Teleport augment above bladestorm anyhow... and even when I use it, it's mostly for clearing hordes of trash mobs. Shurikens are decent, and I would honestly not expect them to do much damage, they're there for shredding armor with the augment, and proccing slash damage, which is still good even on high level enemies since (I might be wrong) bleed procs scale according to max health.

So all in all, I think he's in a good place, and I find it fun to play with him now. Also, premium skin looks baddass.

[Kotei]

If you take what everyone has to say, how hard is it to change it. Blade Storm takes 25 energy to activate and drains 3 Energy per second, up to possibly 15 per second like Mesa's Peacemaker. Blade Storm draws out clones that attack any enemy within line of sight, causing a stagger lock that opens up enemies to finishers for any squad member. This makes since because the enemy is to busy with the clone to realize you are attacking it. The clone's attack by passes all forms of armor. The use of the clones lets Ash roam freely and with a Convert Lethality. I'm that Ember player and I wishes my World on Fire worked like this... set the bar here and raise everyone else to it. What was that about Accelerant opening up finishers? Pssh... please, I still think Overheat would be a better implementation for end game. This isn't overpowered, this is where we should be if DE, by an act of god, stops nerfing us while continuing to buff the enemies. Why would it be a bad thing to overpower us when scaling like Mot exists? On a side note, there are plenty of things that are unique, yet similar to other things.

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by Kotei

[Kotei]

The only good thing about the current Blade Storm is the fact squad members can attack it's marked targets. It is in my opinion that this rework is a step back from the idea that was first presented not a step forward. If the press 4 to win was compared to this current marking target system it would be on the complete opposite spectrum. They both are horrible regardless of how many time you can mark a target. Was nothing learned from Nekros' desecrate rework? Having to constantly do something in a fast paced game is counter productive and the main problem with marking enemies with Blade Storm.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Kotei

[LouseFur]

1 minute ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

Bladestorm could be kind of cool if it had a trigger function to deal critical hits. Final Fantasy 8 had something like that during Squall's limit break, pressing the trigger just as his sword connected with the enemy would make the hit count as a critical hit.

That would be difficult, the animation's pretty fast in general, and let's not forget about people with latency issues...

Still a pretty cool idea.

I remember there used to be a glitch during bladestorm, where you could still fire your primary weapon while teleporting/ assassinating trash. That was pretty cool, perhaps something similar?

[VisionAndVoice]

His ult rework did not solve its main problems, but I use it in the first place because of how it looks. So I sure hope you're not proposing ruining the cooles-looking ability in the game.

 

Shuriken is fine as is.

[LouseFur]

So, Zell from FF8 had intercourse with an Ash? hmm...

I'd be up for the combo idea, but at the same time, that'd be hard to pull off.

Another take might be that you could execute bladestorm mid melee combo? I mean, the combo's already there, and the changes "shouldn't" be that severe... I hope.

[Buzkyl]

So i took Ash to Mot Survival basically t4 Void and did a solid 40 mins of solo play here are the points that can be made

 

1. The Re-visit of Ash has a whole left him more or less in the same place he was before- The new bladestorm is a step down from the one previous. Ash is still doing massive amounts of damage and is still going to shred enemies but it certainly is alot more energy consuming than before. the smokescreen change makes playing him alot smoother and easier. As a whole Ash revisit made him play alot better and made him less mindless, you can still kill the same high level enemies as you could before.

2.  New mark mode is currently a alternate way to nerf bladestorm- The mark mode is basically turns BS into a gun, you point and click and BS happens however BS is weaker than primaries interms of damage. So all in all the new mark mod is a nice feature but right now just feels like a clever way to nerf BS.

Proposal- Marked enemies get bonus synergy from Ash's other skills

• Ash will throw shurikens at all marked enemies within his LoS
• Marked enemies hit by smokebomb will be knocked down or  alternatively suffer an accuracy debuff
• Teleporting to marked enemies, Ash will release smoke that will stagger enemies near said enemy in a small radius.

The revisit is a good revisit however as has the same problem as before as there is a lack of synergy between his skills. Death marking is a new feature that should be expanded so that it benefits all of his skills and is not only the pre-requisit to BS.

3. Ash is not dead- Ash as a whole is the same way he was before. He lacked proper team synergy without augments before the re-visit and he lacks it now after the re-visit. The new BS is a step downwards interms of targets but interms of damage dealt it still one of the best killing skills. BS will outkill fatal teleport, however FT is alot more easier on the energy pool than BS.

Also point of noting- you can mark enemies during a finisher animation so it's full possible to activate your mark mode teleport between a group of enemies mark all of them teleport away to something else and kill the previous group.

 

In the end people who played Ash solely for BS will move to a new easy nuke frame with little effort. This cycle always happen, when excal was brought down a peg people used Mesa, when Mesa was brought down a peg before ran to Saryn when saryn was brought down people ran to Ash now that Ash has be brought down people will move to something else. A

 

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

Bladestorm is one of those moves close to my heart I never wanted to see them change. I can see why DE wanted to, though there are better press 4 to wins, but I really wanted this to stay as it was/has been. Of course, I grabbed my torch and pitchfork when DE joked about reworking desecrate in a dev stream and ended getting used to it.

[Varacal]

it would've been better if ash himself didnt attack the enemies but instead his clones, i would've appreciate that more rather than watching a cutscene after marking the enemies, at least then i'll be able to do something else

[nogi187]

On 25.11.2016 at 9:03 PM, LycanPT said:

I think what players really wanted out of ash bladestorm was to not be stuck in an animation and that market targets could still be killed by teammates, all you accomplished in my perspective was straitgh nerf the ability while keeping the annoying features of it, you didn't rework teh mechanic, you just added a condition to trigger it

I couldn't sum it up any better than LycanPT did.

Up to now I used Ash very often. He was my "lazy mode" frame that enabled me to play warframe while watching some tv show. He also was my default choice as a damage dealer in defense missions, especially because of bladestorms former capability to kill enemys that are not in line of sight to me.

Now, after the rework I sadly see no more reason in bringing Ash to any mission. As others stated, if I have to aim at all the targets before I kill them with bladestorm, I may as well just shoot them as a Rhino with iron skin and amplified rifle damage...

I understand the wish to nerf bladestorm from a player and from a developer point of view, but even though bladestorm was really strong I did not see everyone playing only Ash. The variety was always there and sometimes I even wondered why there are not more people using Ash.

TLDR: If the rework stays like this then one of my favorite frames gets benched. :(

Edited November 27, 2016 by nogi187

[LouseFur]

1 minute ago, Varacal said:

it would've been better if ash himself didnt attack the enemies but instead his clones, i would've appreciate that more rather than watching a cutscene after marking the enemies, at least then i'll be able to do something else

Could you imagine something like Ash using Shadow clone justu on every targeted enemy? I'd roll around laughing seeing something like 100 ash's  stabbing stuff (this is a joke in general). But your idea seems like it could work, would be cool if ash were also to be stealthed for the duration of his clone attacks.