HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[Aratir]

1 hour ago, notlamprey said:

You know, it really wouldn't be the worst thing for us as concerned players if Hema research costs were overlooked and "officially forgotten about." It would be bad for the game, but we would at least have a clearer path for future decisions.

I could at least consider it to be a certain degree of closure with respect to how much I should care about this game. Right now, the outcome is still in doubt and I still feel invested in seeing some sort of conclusion.

Even if the eventual conclusion isn't one I'm happy with, I will at least get some form of closure and (assuming the worst case) be free to move on.

But the closure is already there they wont change the research cost, you either farm it or buy it with real money and every weapon afterward that is linked with it.

[theraot]

5 minutes ago, Aratir said:

But the closure is already there they wont change the research cost, you either farm it or buy it with real money and every weapon afterward that is linked with it.

At least I won't take Steve's personal stream, I do believe there is chance for a change in opinion. And even if there isn't I wanna hear it from an official DE communication.

Regardless, as I mentioned in a prior post, they may just not talk about it. And not saying something about it is also an answer.

Another reason to wait for the devstream is because it is a chance for them to show me something that may renovate my hope in this game. Of course, I'm still interested in this game, I'm here talking in their forums... or perhaps I'm just going thru the stages of grief and Acceptance (stage 5) will be leaving the game.

Edit: this is still Bargaining (stage 3). Me saying that they may not mention Hema on the devstream is me opening to contemplate Depression (stage 4).

Edited January 6, 2017 by theraot

[General_Durandal]

I'm in a mountain clan, and we need over 100,000 more mutagen samples.

Now, I do have 10k mutagen samples at this moment,

but what you have to remember, is that i've been playing this game EVERY DAY, for ALMOST THREE YEARS.

If every member played as much as me no-one would have problems because everyone would have = amounts,

but NOT EVERYONE PLAYS EVERY DAY, and MOST PLAYERS THAT PLAYED 3-4 YEARS AGO DON'T REALLY PLAY ANYMORE.

People stop playing, with the number one reason being, the grind is too hard.

I've had to remove DOZENS of friends from my friends list because they stopped playing the game hundreds of days ago.

The reason they stopped playing? 100% of the ones I actually could contact said the RNG and grind was BS and they didn't want to deal with it anymore.

Out of all my time playing this game, this Mutagen Sample requirement for Hema,

is THE WORST CASE OF GRIND, I'VE EVER SEEN IN ANY GAME EVER!

And it's not even that good. (MR fodder for me looking at the stats)

It's actually kinda crappy, but nope, it can heal you, so that makes it special.

The only response you've given so far for the ridiculous mutagen sample cost is that,

This burst-fire Infested rifle offers a unique mechanic, and with the ability to absorb health and ammo from enemies it adds a new level of variety to your Arsenal. The Resource costs, the Mutagen Samples in particular, are set to encourage Clan participation and collaboration in investing for this new weapon. It is clear to us you are eager in doing so in the most efficient manner possible, so let’s break it down: 

Just because it's a cool new weapon with a neat effect doesn't mean people are going to be encouraged to grind for it.

The grind scares them away. The grind is KILLING YOUR GAME.

People have already STOPPED PLAYING warframe, just because of the RIDICULOUS mutagen sample COST to make Hema ALONE.

You guys say you keep track, but you are a group of like, maybe a dozen people, and there are millions of players apparently.

You guys probably only keep track of your mind washed tenno that always praise everything you do.

Which is probably in a small number that would actually be manageable for such a small group.

 

I regret ever putting real money into this game,

because if you guys keep up these ridiculous grind values,

the game is going to die, and all that money i pored into this game is going to be wasted.

 

So i hereby will no longer support this game.

 

To fix this, 

make the mutagen sample base requirement anywhere between 50 and 250.

250 times 100 is 25,000 which is still ridiculous for a rare component,

but is far more manageable for a normal group of players.

[Godzelda123]

Hmm, a thread complaining about the cost of the Hema, never seen this before. 

[Zhoyzu]

you are several weeks late to the meta complain party

[ArcticMantis]

4 minutes ago, Godzelda123 said:

Hmm, a thread complaining about the cost of the Hema, never seen this before. 

Imo there aren't enough threads about this, until DE miraculously changes their mind about adjusting the costs

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

2 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

you are several weeks late to the meta complain party

you might wanna look up "meta complaint" ... anyway yo, in b4 merge...

[General_Durandal]

3 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

you are several weeks late to the meta complain party

THE GLAST GAMBIT Posted On 2016-12-22 09:58:00

That was 2 weeks ago, not several.

But i know what you mean.

[WhiteMarker]

16 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

I'm in a mountain clan

So there are 101 active members in you clan, at least.
This makes not even 1500 sambles per member. I know it's still a lot. But it's manageabe.
If you want to tell me you have less than 101 active members, why do you guys have a mountain clan and not a shadow clan? ^^

[General_Durandal]

38 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So there are 101 active members in you clan, at least.
This makes not even 1500 sambles per member. I know it's still a lot. But it's manageabe.
If you want to tell me you have less than 101 active members, why do you guys have a mountain clan and not a shadow clan? ^^

Almost 300 actually.

Mountains are cooler then Shadows?

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, General_Durandal said:

Almost 300 actually.

Mountains are cooler then Shadows?

So you have 300 active members in you clan?
This makes 500 samples per member. I do not understand why YOU are complaining about the costs. 500 samples for one person is nothing. ^^

[General_Durandal]

10 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So you have 300 active members in you clan?
This makes 500 samples per member. I do not understand why YOU are complaining about the costs. 500 samples for one person is nothing. ^^

Oh, "active members",

like, less then 50.

[Weidro]

Just now, General_Durandal said:

Oh, "active members",

like, less then 50.

then just kick the inactive ones and downgrade

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, General_Durandal said:

Oh, "active members",

like, less then 50.

My point...
Do not complain if you are carrying a lot of inactive members...

[Senketsu_]

i only have me and another active member in my ghost clan. it'll take weeks just for use to get 5000 samples. kind of bullcrap honestly 

[WolfTitan]

1 minute ago, Senketsu_ said:

i only have me and another active member in my ghost clan. it'll take years just for use to get 5000 samples. kind of bullcrap honestly 

There. Fixed for you.

[CarrotSalad]

Wait till it hit consoles :)

I do wonder if when its released on consoles it will cost as much as PC? I mean if its its too late to change for PC its not too late for console. ^^

[General_Durandal]

2 minutes ago, Weidro said:

then just kick the inactive ones and downgrade

 

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

My point...
Do not complain if you are carrying a lot of inactive members...

Only three of them haven't been on in 40 days, which is the kicking point.

 

I'm not complaining mainly on my clan's behalf.

 

5000 is the minimum mutagen samples required.

Smaller clans can't gather it effectively even if all their members are active.

 

Even if the clan had one member, which there are clans with only one member,

the minimum is 5000.

Now, someone that's been playing for years might be able to do that in a one-man clan,

but the new players, especially the ones that are making their own clans for their groups of friends,

are the ones that are getting harmed the most.

 

I know it might just be one problem, involving one item,

but i've seen smaller problems make bigger waves, and ultimately kill the game.

[JohnMorte]

to all the people saying "just kick players out of your clan":

your lack of empathy is astounding. warframe is mostly a casual game, and forcing players to make the decision to kick friends out just to farm an average weapon is honestly absurd.

[General_Durandal]

2 minutes ago, 3goats said:

to all the people saying "just kick players out of your clan":

your lack of empathy is astounding. warframe is mostly a casual game, and forcing players to make the decision to kick friends out just to farm an average weapon is honestly absurd.

No-one could have said that better.

[Weidro]

32 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Now, someone that's been playing for years might be able to do that in a one-man clan,

but the new players, especially the ones that are making their own clans for their groups of friends,

are the ones that are getting harmed the most.

i can understand that you refuse to kick someone
and that is perfectly fine

since this thread has already been here with several hundred pages I'll sum the arguments for not changing the Hema research cost up

1. if you run your clan solo you know what you are up to and you know that you have to pay for 10 players
2. if you choose to carry inactive players again you know that you have to pay for them as well
3. older players have farmed the resources over time and so can the new players no one gets them for free
   and considering that its a lot easier to farm resources these days i think that's totally fair
4. most important of all arguments here [DE]Steve addressed this in his stream:
   • they asked their statistic guys to pull the data what the average mutagen samples are that players have
   • turns out its around 500 resulting in research costs of 500 for each player
   • some clans have already payed the resources so its unfair to change it retroactively
   • it wont be changed

you might not like it but this are the facts

my tip is try not to rush it and farm the resources over time
both nekros and pilfering hydroid are your friends
just bring them when ever you are playing a mission that drops mutagen samples
encourage your active clan mates to do the same

sorry buddy but you have to deal with this since it wont be changed and this thread wont change that either

Edited January 6, 2017 by Weidro

[Zookes]

Having assistance from one friend, we have farmed the necessary mutagen samples for a ghost clan over 3 days.
I think it is not the cost that bothers so much but where the resources drop. So I say here the grind was not so fun because derelict is not very good to play!

Hoping only that DE refreshes derelict maps to have better flow to play. Very much feels like the pre-parkour-update tileset it is.

 

The hema costs tho? It is/was a long-term goal, I accept this and think others should accept this also. Unfortunate tho this goal crosses into such bad play areas.

To those not yet having it: the weapon is not so good as to be first priority. You miss nothing except MR points by not immediately having it.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Zookes

[WolfTitan]

11 minutes ago, Weidro said:

 

most important of all arguments here [DE]Steve addressed this in his stream:

• they asked their statistic guys to pull the data what the average mutagen samples are that players have
• turns out its around 500 resulting in research costs of 500 for each player
• some clans have already payed the resources so its unfair to change it retroactively
• it wont be changed

 

I appreciate DE's response. DE set a bad precedent for future clan research requirements. The insane requirement induces clan toxicity, which is described here, and encourages players to play missions a certain way: Nekros, Speed Nova, 2 Hydroids or 1 Hydroid + 1 Trinity

My message to DE: Stop focusing so much on numbers. Start looking from the perspective of the player.

DE's logic in 2016 has been absolutely atrocious by introducing grindwall after grindwall. Hopefully 2017 will be different.

Edited January 6, 2017 by WolfTitan

[Azrael]

8 minutes ago, Weidro said:

• they asked their statistic guys to pull the data what the average mutagen samples are that players have
• turns out its around 500 resulting in research costs of 500 for each player

There is a HUGE difference between "the average number of mutagen samples per account is 500" and "the average player has 500 samples in his or her account." The first one is easily skewed by vets with large stockpiles.

 

9 minutes ago, Weidro said:

some clans have already payed the resources so its unfair to change it retroactively

samples can be refunded to clan vaults, which most clans would probably not mind at all. Our clan funded the research, and we wouldn't mind.

 

10 minutes ago, Weidro said:

it wont be changed

This is not an argument. It might not even be true. It is only an expression of a defeatist attitude.

 

Also, the requirement is far more than 500 per player, since most clans are not full and do not have 100% activity. You talk about deciding to carry people, but inactive players are the norm, not the exception. Finally, this game is highly social, and putting pressure on people to kick friends is highly destructive to the core of the game.

[Weidro]

1 minute ago, WolfTitan said:

Start looking from the perspective of the player.

this would mean that all players have to put in the same effort
just older players have already done so and new players still have to do so

I'm sure you would agree that a teenager should work before he is able to buy a house and a car
and I'm sure you agree that its fair is a already grown up man can do it since he already put in the effort

its the same here in the game
your argument proofs my point 3)