HyokaChan Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I mean, I thought they could apply the same technology by now, so I'm pretty confused as to why it hasn't come out for non-steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolfen Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It was never limited by technology. it is limited by contracts with steam. And making agreements about console could actually be easier as steam has no reach on the console market anyway so any profit would be more profit then not doing it. Taking Tennogen sales to in-game fully on PC however takes control away from Steam that they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praxxor Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I don't think that DE should have to waste time on that if you just don't want to download Steam. Consoles can't do that, so they get special treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepheonix13 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Airwolfen said: It was never limited by technology. it is limited by contracts with steam. And making agreements about console could actually be easier as steam has no reach on the console market anyway so any profit would be more profit then not doing it. Taking Tennogen sales to in-game fully on PC however takes control away from Steam that they have now. ^ This sums it up perfectly. They are just not allowed to because TennoGen items are items from the Steam Workshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temragon Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 You don't even have to play through steam. Just link your account to a steam account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 That only could work if the tennogen workshop not bound to the steam just works as a non steam program /addition/ to warframe. The pricing also a deal with Valve so those items will be always expensive because you need to pay to DE, The author, Valve and taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpinlarpin Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 downloading steam and paying like 7$ for a skin really isn't that hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx_mtv_xXx Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Gaben gotta eat and he has quite an appetite lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 contracts and money. that's all it is. anyway, you guys on PC have the chance to get whatever Tennogen you want on steam, a chance consoles don't have. you should really be using it. all you have to do is Download steam, and boom, now you can get whatever you're willing to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvaDreams Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: contracts and money. that's all it is. anyway, you guys on PC have the chance to get whatever Tennogen you want on steam, a chance consoles don't have. you should really be using it. all you have to do is Download steam, and boom, now you can get whatever you're willing to pay for. The sad part is that is too much work and effort for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, SilvaDreams said: The sad part is that is too much work and effort for some. how long does it even take to download steam anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvaDreams Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: how long does it even take to download steam anyway? A minute, maybe two......? Steam isn't exactly a big file but some people apparently have potato powered internet too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyori Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 TennoGen = Money concerned There are some tennogen stuffs in the in-game market I think lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoUrdenAzazel Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, pinpinlarpin said: downloading steam and paying like 7$ for a skin really isn't that hard Which is hard is to get your credit card out of your wallet to spend(waste) real money on a cloak or helmet while others can buy it with plat ! The easy(normal?) way to proceed if it's because of steam contract(so they pretend) would be to be able to trade those items IG for plat. It is not like the process already exists on some others games ;) Also like someone said already on this thread or somewhere else, why DE doesn't make its own app where people can vote for tennogen instead using that steam(S#&$) app ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvaDreams Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DoUrdenAzazel said: Which is hard is to get your credit card out of your wallet to spend(waste) real money on a cloak or helmet while others can buy it with plat ! The easy(normal?) way to proceed if it's because of steam contract(so they pretend) would be to be able to trade those items IG for plat. It is not like the process already exists on some others games ;) Also like someone said already on this thread or somewhere else, why DE doesn't make its own app where people can vote for tennogen instead using that steam(S#&$) app ? Really? Because all that plat on consoles came from someone's wallet too, only they don't get 20/50/75% discounts As for the app bit.... Because it takes a lot of time, development and money to make something like that. Plus Steam handles the international payments, taxes ext for paying the creator... Which saves them tons of time and money on lawyers ext. Edited February 16, 2017 by SilvaDreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, HyokaChan said: I mean, I thought they could apply the same technology by now, so I'm pretty confused as to why it hasn't come out for non-steam. You're missing a few things here. First is that DE has contracts with the creators of the content that they will get a certain amount of the money from every sale of the item. Steam also takes its cut as it provides the service. In order to sell the items on the console for plat DE has to buy the rights from the authors in order to do so. As when its sold on the consoles for plat the authors don't get any of the money from those transactions. If the items were sold for plat by DE none of the authors would get any money from those transactions, which would most likely drive away most of the good creators we have in the tennogen system. And beyond that DE would need to buy the rights from them to sell it on PC, which would cost DE money as well as prevent any future sale of those items generating money for the creators. And if the creators don't agree to sell their rights to DE then DE simply can't sell it for plat. So basically: Its not a technology problem its a contract problem and the fact that buying it with money makes the creators money and few creators would be willing to give up all rights to making money from their creations on PC. Second is that how many creators do you think would be willing to give up the money they are making from their warframe creations? Because that's essentially what you're asking them to do here. 20 minutes ago, DoUrdenAzazel said: Also like someone said already on this thread or somewhere else, why DE doesn't make its own app where people can vote for tennogen instead using that steam(S#&$) app ? Do you know how difficult it is to create your own marketplace application with all the security needed and be able to tie it into your game while also keeping it reliable and relatively bug free? That would be hundreds of work hours minimum and quite a few thousand dollars to develop. Or they could make a few contracts with Valve and get access to their marketplace and not have to worry about it. That way DE doesn't have to worry about the payment security, or how to safely get the money to the creators, or a host of other issues. Honestly they chose the right path here from a programmers PoV: Use a solution that is known to work instead of trying to roll your own which would likely cause many, many, many issues. EDIT: Also consoles don't get plat discounts, so the $200 plat bundle will always cost $200 on consoles, meanwhile on PC that $200 bundle could cost as low as $50 with a 75% coupon. This drastically complicates trying to relate a plat cost to a money value for selling tennogen items for plat on PC. Edited February 16, 2017 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) And the same could be said of the plat on PC: someone paid for it. Someone's prime access paid for it. That's not a valid argument. @ OP The thing is that valve does not want to lose it's monopoly over steam workshop items, and it also wants to guarantee its creators the money. Keeping it restricted is the best way to achieve both goals. As a non steam Tenno I sympathize with you. But we are going to have to suck it up and deal with it because DE is not interested in the effort and time that would be funneled into this. I have heard some suggest that DE could buy units and sell them in the OG client, but I question how feasible that would be both legally and practically. The best thing for us would be if DE contracted the creators to make items like how they commissioned the Deluxe skins. Will they do it? I don't know. Probably not. Edited February 16, 2017 by Evanescent Edited misquote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Evanescent said: And the same could be said of the plat on PC: someone paid for it. Someone's prime access paid for it. That's not a valid argument. Except that it is with all of the PC discounts. Say you buy 4300 plat on PC. Did you pay $200 or $50? How is anyone supposed to tell, especially after trading it around? Now how would paying the creators of the content go? They are given a cut of the profits so how much money would they make if you bought an item for 250 plat? Because how much did that 250 plat really cost and how much money did it make for DE? If it was just being sold for plat DE could start rapidly losing money due to discounted plat being used to buy the items but DE paying the creators based off of the full price. 7 minutes ago, Evanescent said: I have heard some suggest that DE could buy units and sell them in the OG client, but I question how feasible that would be both legally and practically. Fully legal, they would just have to buy the rights to selling the items and making all profits from the items from the creators. But how many creators would be willing to give up all future profits of their creations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said: Except that it is with all of the PC discounts. Say you buy 4300 plat on PC. Did you pay $200 or $50? How is anyone supposed to tell, especially after trading it around? Now how would paying the creators of the content go? They are given a cut of the profits so how much money would they make if you bought an item for 250 plat? Because how much did that 250 plat really cost and how much money did it make for DE? If it was just being sold for plat DE could start rapidly losing money due to discounted plat being used to buy the items but DE paying the creators based off of the full price. Fully legal, they would just have to buy the rights to selling the items and making all profits from the items from the creators. But how many creators would be willing to give up all future profits of their creations? You misunderstand-also I may have quoted the wrong person-I was addressing the point people make that PC plat is all traded and therefore would lose DE money, which is preposterous. Plat value has a minimum value and maximum value it fluctuates within but by no means is any plat 'free'. Someone paid for it. Like I said, complications. Best way to keep creators paid and for steam to come out on top is to keep it in the market. That way all devside parties win. I reiterate my statement that commissioning some creators for certain items may be the only way we get some of their crafted stuff on non-steam PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpinlarpin Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, DoUrdenAzazel said: Which is hard is to get your credit card out of your wallet to spend(waste) real money on a cloak or helmet while others can buy it with plat ! The easy(normal?) way to proceed if it's because of steam contract(so they pretend) would be to be able to trade those items IG for plat. It is not like the process already exists on some others games ;) Also like someone said already on this thread or somewhere else, why DE doesn't make its own app where people can vote for tennogen instead using that steam(S#&$) app ? like someone said above me, making them tradeable will just screw up the income of the tennogen authors and its literally like $7. seven dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Evanescent said: You misunderstand-also I may have quoted the wrong person-I was addressing the point people make that PC plat is all traded and therefore would lose DE money, which is preposterous. Plat value has a minimum value and maximum value it fluctuates within but by no means is any plat 'free'. Someone paid for it. Like I said, complications. Best way to keep creators paid and for steam to come out on top is to keep it in the market. That way all devside parties win. I reiterate my statement that commissioning some creators for certain items may be the only way we get some of their crafted stuff on non-steam PC. Traded plat also cost DE money. I know they would've at least gotten $50 of plat sales out of me if I wasn't able to trade for 1000s of plat freely. It does lose value because it's traded. The last time I've spent money in WF is because of tennogen. If tennogen were sold for plat, they wouldn't get any money out of me. That had to account for something. Edited February 16, 2017 by Hypernaut1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanescent Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, Hypernaut1 said: Traded plat also cost DE money. I know they would've at least gotten $50 of plat sales out of me if I wasn't able to trade for 1000s of plat freely. It did lose value because it's traded. The last time I've spent money in WF is because of tennogen. If that were the case trading would not be a thing. Only purchased plat can be traded, and plat used on the market is gone forever. This ensures as long as trading takes place you are draining and causing the purchase of more plat somewhere down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Evanescent said: If that were the case trading would not be a thing. Only purchased plat can be traded, and plat used on the market is gone forever. This ensures as long as trading takes place you are draining and causing the purchase of more plat somewhere down the line. But it is the case. I don't buy plat because I can trade for it. Trading plat probably loses as many sales as it causes. How could it not? I have no reason to ever purchase plat again because of trading. I bought the Ash koga skin for free, that would've been a guaranteed cash purchase from me if not for trading. It is lost revenue from many players, that like me, have no need to purchase plat. The only time I bought plat was as a new player to purchase items from the market. Once I learned of trading, it seemed silly to buy plat specifically to trade, when I was capable of making plat doing the same thing. Tennogen items and prime access are the only ways DE will get money from many vet players that know how to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninJed Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, SilvaDreams said: Really? Because all that plat on consoles came from someone's wallet too, only they don't get 20/50/75% discounts As for the app bit.... Because it takes a lot of time, development and money to make something like that. Plus Steam handles the international payments, taxes ext for paying the creator... Which saves them tons of time and money on lawyers ext. Hehe again...don't console players get...what is it...30% off platinum for holiday sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoUrdenAzazel Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said: EDIT: Also consoles don't get plat discounts, so the $200 plat bundle will always cost $200 on consoles, meanwhile on PC that $200 bundle could cost as low as $50 with a 75% coupon. This drastically complicates trying to relate a plat cost to a money value for selling tennogen items for plat on PC. Because you can't trade stuff on console for plat ? I don't know that is why I ask. I know on pc some never bought any plat and just made their plat by trading so even console users don't have discounts, you can make yourself some plat by trading... Edit : I just read that sometimes console users do have some discounts : "So no holiday deals where they can get...what is it... 30% off platinum?" "Not every time" So I guess you do have discounts :p Edited February 16, 2017 by DoUrdenAzazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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