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Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.


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finally, self damage on tonkor! 

its just how aoe works. u stand too close to the group of enemies ur wiping out, u wipe urself out too. its a good way of balancing aoe weapons with other normal guns.

i do however think the tonkor should be changed to explode on impact with any surface. aiming a slow projectile with heavy arc from afar with 100% accuracy is pretty hard.

Edited by Ragingwasabi
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Hmm... please look at Opticor vs Ferrox while you guys are at it. The Ferrox should be a faster but weaker cousin of the opticor with added utility not a not a faster equally as strong cousin with added utility :/

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Ok. So. I would like approach this with a few concerns. A few questions. And a few possible resolutions. Not only about the nerfs, but MR locks on a few of the weapons.

The miter is gotten from Ceres which is pre Jupiter. Pre neural sensors. Why not a lock at MR 4 where players are more likely to be when they have the ability to get that weapon and MR for the Panthera? It seems reasonable for a planet that early. The ogris is at MR 8. Feels a little too high again. Maybe 6?  And the buzlock. 9? That's a good few days grind from sancti tigris or vaykor hek. It essentially have a 23.5% crit chance isn't worth it at this time unless mods are introduced that would say increase crit chance for enemies for a few seconds like argon scope is after a headshot. So definitely like 5 or a 6 lock on that I feel would be fair unless a mod that type is added to go with it.

And now, the part we've been waiting for. The nerf section. (I would like to preface this by saying I've used the ((synoid)) simulor the most out of these and yes, on mirage, but also using the alt fire to explode the orbs, and I use it for aoe clear in solo mode cause I'm lazy and I know some people have toasters and can't handle all the effects).

1) Tonkor (leveled then sold after testing)

-It fires slower because of the Tigris like fire to hold then release (yes I know tigris does one shot each action)

-Self damage. It's still got a lot of damage and it explodes sooner and drops faster. So how likely are you to kill yourself with it? Answer is very.

-Reducing the crit chance. Yes, it's a highly used weapon. It's a crit weapon and a launcher. It can't fire as much as a soma. So that extra crit chance sort of helped it stay up to par with being an endgame weapon. Being able to handle high levels. Taking it to 25% I feel was like the extra kick in the knee to the tonkor fans.

2)(Synoid) Simulor (Because the regular wasn't worth using in the first place)

-Spread the word of the glorious alt fire and stop frying computers (completely fine. Buff the alt fire even though it's a garunteed electricity proc and messes with the 35% status chance)

-Reduce the damage to 20-40 from what now? 150-250? Um. I know y'all hate your mirages spamming them and creating vortex's everywhere. But come on. Burying it in the ground with that? AND reducing the range of damage done by stacking orbs. Come on. If the effects are effecting players in public matches that much, change them or add a toggle to turn them off and give us a stock roller ball in its place for toasters or something.

3) Telos. Boltace.

-I can understand. The effects for anything other than dark energy colors was eye-cancer. But again. Have a way to turn off the effects. It's a decent weapon and a great box opener with its range. Forced slash procs, good damage, UTILITY. Please at least tell me I'll still have my high range box opener when this is all through. And also really? A cool down on the cc? Unless it's the time it takes for enemies to get up then I don't see why there's a cool down.

So all in all. A lot of the buffs are nice. Attica and Panthera I'm especially looking foreword to since the Attica might be a good early game crit weapon for newer players to put a forma into and actually get something worth using out of it. And the Panthera has always been a guilty pleasure weapon. It's just a cool concept and I like that it'll maybe be worth using. Good luck to the future, can't wait to get Octavia, she seems like she's gonna be just fun to use. Got a couple songs in mind for her ;)

Edited by nickl3188
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I think one thing needs to be made perfectly clear there are lots of ways to be worse than Telos Boltace ever was and not even limbo can try to counter these methods since they are ability based not weapon based. Like World on Fire ember+ A buff frame of choice or Bansheeeeee Using Sound Quake when people want some kills or Mirage with Tonkor/Synoid Simulor. (Mirage can be blocked but that's pure griefing with the rift.)
And Vaubans with bright energy colours can be annoying too. And don't get me started on what people think of me if I would take my Slow Nova to a public session Akkad then they hate me. So if you want to block people from ruining the game for others then just prepare for the fact that you are removing half the game to achieve a goal that only people that don't want to leave Squad when these people show up has to be worried about.

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Hi DE, after much thinking I created a list of future nerfs so you won't have to do it. I saved your precious time. See. I'm helping. :)

Frames:

  • Banshee (Prime)
  • Ember (Prime)
  • Chroma
  • Inaros
  • Equinox
  • Vauban (Prime)
  • Mesa
  • Mirage
  • Nekros (Prime)
  • Nidus
  • Nova (Prime)
  • Saryn (Prime)
  • Trinity (Prime)
  • Valkyr (Prime)
  • Wukong

Weapons:

  • Syndicate weapons
  • Weapons with mods from syndicates
  • Galatine Prime
  • Atterax
  • Tigris series
  • Sobek
  • Soma (Prime)
  • Dread
  • Cernos series
  • War
  • Lanka
  • Kulstar
  • Sonicor
  • (Secura) Penta
  • Lex and Aklex Prime
  • Akstiletto (Prime)
  • Staticor
  • Opticor
  • Hikou (Prime)

You should also nerf defense/rescue target aimbot.

All of them make the game easy for all of the lazy bums out there.

I'm a noob and I don't have the time to investy in my weapon. Why do others formed and potatoed them. Why are they stronger than me? I'm crying here! :( DE help me! Other players are taking my kills. I can't play this game. I'm crying, can't you see it, DE? :C

And that's how I see all of the players praising nerfs. It is unfair to us who invested their time in making nerfed weapons great. DE, do you think playing Warframe is our work? No. Our time is precious.

You want to destroy two of the greatest mechanics in this gamer, rocket jumping (Yes, players are using it for fun) and trickshots with bouncing grenades.

I never seen a player complained for clearing out a room where he was downed. No one complained when I killed lots of infested during the Pacifism Defect. No one complained when I helped them killing Lephantis. And last but not least I'm always a contributing member of a sortie team. But yeah nerf it. Nerf the fun I had.

In words of region chat from Omnivoice's video:
"It's nerf or nothing - DE."
And

"Nerf all the nerfes."

 

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I feel like these changes are mostly good with a few exceptions.

Buzlok: The 50% Critical chance increase to tagged enemies feels a bit too low to encourage utilization of the secondary fire without a Crit Chance Riven (Disclaimer: I have one). If I'm reading it right it'll be about 57% Crit chance total with maxed Point Strike which is okay by itself, but having to play around the use of the tag makes it a little underwhelming. It's really hard to gauge this one without playing it though since "The flight speed of the Homing Beacon has been increased." isn't terribly informative.

Tonkor: I haven't used this one in a while, but I'd found the bouncing of the grenades to be a little unpredictable at times making this weapon not really usable for me if the self damage nerf goes through.

In addition, I've found that when playing with other people, self damaging weapons in general get me killed fairly frequently simply because someone walks in front of me as I'm firing. A great fix for this would be simply shield gating or reducing your HP to 2 as opposed to just killing the player entirely.

Other than that, everything looks great. Keep up the good work.

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Hi all Tennos,

@[DE]Rebecca  Hi dear mother,

First of all i want to give you and the warframe staff thanks for all the effort to make this game one of the best that i ever played so far.

I'm 35 years old and i remember be a Gamer since my parents gift me an Atari 2600 for my 5yo birthday. Those were great memories and i consider my self a very experienced player from many types of games across a lot of plataforms, so i have a "General vision" sometimes useful in this cases to see things that younger ppl just pass over it.

I write to you just to make a statement about this "balance", in fact is more like a proposal. Here it goes.

.-Delete Self DMG from game. Entirely!... Yes it's a bit radical but what's the point of self killing with a blow from a weapon fired to a enemy 30 yards away and your teammate just pass in front of you and boom! Gone! I don't see any logic here. While he is using a not self dmg weap that can obliterate armies without any penalty. So why the penalty?

.-Buff weapons that nobody uses. We all know that you have stadistics about wich weapons are more used than others and wich ones don't... I'm not asking to make all weapons GOD Tier, come on even the Tonkor can sucks if bad modded. What i'm talking is make like 45 Top tier weaps, 45 Mid Niche weaps(That can be top tier with warframe abilities combination), rest whatever you want.

.- Revamp Syndicate weapons and make good augments mods for those weapons that ppl just lvl to mastery rank and drop it right after. If a weapon is on a syndicate if worth to be GOOD. Have anyone seen someone using Telos Boltor lately? one primary intended to be on TOP. Or have anyone seen someone using Penta Secura? (no cause the self dmg) Remove that self dmg and you will have a TOP tier weapon in a blink of an eye. After all ppl is here to have fun not to curse all life each time self dmg rip you appart.

.- Add additional alter fires, in a way to make them better to those weapons that may be good but don't are enough for higher enemies. .

.- Add augment warframe mod that affect a direct weapon. Let's say Volt a electric warframe will have an augment for Ferrox, Castanas and Lecta. Frost as cold warframe will have augments for Glaxion, Stug(didn't find a full cold secondary hehe) and Sibear... Things that synergise frames with weapons so they can match a combo and improve the gameplay from both.

.- Make more type of Rivens for all weapons so ppl can have many many options to match certain things in game. For example i have a Riven for Synoid Simulor when i will use it with mirage and have another one for when i will use it with a frame without clones. Things like that will encourage ppl to make more builds and DON'T GET BORED!

.- The game grows, the weapons are better, the builds with riven mods are quite OP for the already in game mainstream content. Give us more challenges and ofc give us rewards, prizes, for doing them. No point have 6 formas on a weapon that can 1 hit a lvl 75 mob to use it in everyday on quick missions.

From my experience of many games, i have seen how ppl start leaving when the things you have worked so hard and put so many effort on them start to vanish from them without a proper reason, but they STAY if new and better content lure them to keep having fun with other options. The real thing comes when you add that SALTY way to "solve" things called NERF cause most of them are requested to hurt ppl that over use something instead of giving better options to make greater things. I'm 500% sure, with more great weapons a full tonkor lover could see a better option by itself and start using it and not FORCING it to use other option cause some others don't like tonkor lovers. After all every single weapon on the game suit a personal gameplay style that can be destroyed due a NERF. A way to succes in large scale games like this one, is aim to be 100% inclusive and less exclusive. Tonkor seems OP? make two more similar opts. Soma prime seems op? give ppl more great weapons like it instead cutting them off.

In my humble opinion, many of those ppl that use a lot those weapons, don't stay on a mission longer than 20 minutes, 30 waves, 20 extractors... i think you are understanding my point. Yes they are great weapons for fast missions like Ember is "OP" for an extermination on Mercury. The real thing come when you try to be OP with the same build in "end game" and you just can't cause the enemies are to powerful and you need like 5 tonkor direct shots to kill one(this is another matter that currently we don't have enough content called End Game but i know you are working on some great things to add more raids/sorties and endless missions).

Overall i'm gratefull for the buff on those less used weapons and i want to see a LOT of them not only on the weapons, also on warframes like Oberon, Atlas, Nezha, Limbo, Hydroid, Titania, Zephyr so they can be competitive and End Game useful frames too.

Thanks for taking your time to read this and i sorry for my bad English. It's not my foreign language.

Best Regards.

Edit: Some wonder why i talk this way, i'm 23 Mastery Rank Tenno. I still don't have Dex Furis or Zenistar. Yes it can be done in 5 months!

Edited by Dailus
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3 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

No changes to Daikyu? :(

 

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have buffed 10 underpowered weapons which have unique mechanics that have been overlooked due to their poor stats.

Needs to have a unique mechanic. I'd like a Torid Flight Speed buff, but that's not what DE's doing today it seems.

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Please consider a mechanical buff to the Opticor as well.

Primary Fire:

  • Bigger AoE around the projectile when fully charged
    • Similar to the Gauss Cannon's Siege Mode of Doom (2016)
    • Fix: AoE on impact even if the projectile punched through an enemy
  • Allow to hold the charge for 5 seconds after charging fully
    • Similar to Daikyus mechanic

Secondary Fire:

  • Powers up the weapon
    • Takes as long as fully charging the weapon
  • After that, Opticor can fire all the remaing shots of the magazine back to back at minimal charge
    • Or power it down by pressing secondary fire again
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13 minutes ago, Dailus said:

-Delete Self DMG from game. Entirely!... Yes it's a bit radical but what's the point of self killing with a blow from a weapon fired to a enemy 30 yards away and your teammate just pass in front of you and boom! Gone! I don't see any logic here. While he is using a not self dmg weap that can obliterate armies without any penalty. So why the penalty?

I would agree with you on this to a certain degree (especially in this context with the changes to Tonkor) but.. after going through the whole thread, just be prepared for the the "git gud" crowd to respond with things like "you need situational awareness" and bla bla bla..

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Before it was not too hard to carry the missions with my Symulor - for myself and for another 3 pointless dumbs with wrong frames and specs. Some of them joined just to lvlup their frames or weapons. It wasn't a problem for me (at least until lvl 90 of enemies) and I never checked their stuff.

But now, I would always do that and if something would be wrong (wrong frame, wrong weapons, not max lvl or wrong spec) - I would always blame and insult that morons.

And this is your fault, DE. You are forcing players to be unfriendly.

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4 minutes ago, Didoguard said:

best information ever. Finally the $&*&*#(%& meta is broken somehow.

And the nerf complains will move to another weapon, i already see it.   ...cough Tigris p cough...

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Some of the complains here are just crazy. Jeez.

3 minutes ago, SilverWF said:

Before it was not too hard to carry the missions with my Symulor - for myself and for another 3 pointless dumbs with wrong frames and specs. Some of them joined just to lvlup their frames or weapons. It wasn't a problem for me (at least until lvl 90 of enemies) and I never checked their stuff.

But now, I would always do that and if something would be wrong (wrong frame, wrong weapons, not max lvl or wrong spec) - I would always blame and insult that morons.

And this is your fault, DE. You are forcing players to be unfriendly.

What the heck did I just read...

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6 minutes ago, SilverWF said:

Before it was not too hard to carry the missions with my Symulor - for myself and for another 3 pointless dumbs with wrong frames and specs. Some of them joined just to lvlup their frames or weapons. It wasn't a problem for me (at least until lvl 90 of enemies) and I never checked their stuff.

But now, I would always do that and if something would be wrong (wrong frame, wrong weapons, not max lvl or wrong spec) - I would always blame and insult that morons.

And this is your fault, DE. You are forcing players to be unfriendly.

DE has not forced anyone to be unfriendly.There are already players who refuse to play with people who have not min-maxed, not optimized, or not fully levelled, and they will remain just as disliked as they were before. You have chosen to use this as an excuse to be unfriendly. It is your own fault. 

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While these weapons do seem overpowered in low lvl missions IE lvl 100 and down these missions are not much of a challenge for advanced players. some in the community enjoy pushing higher dificulty and seeing much higher enemy lvls by rebalencing all weapons to those lower lvl missions we that crave pushing the outer bounds will no longer be able to. sadly this may greatly affect playability of the game for those that are at max rank with little ellse to do but challenge themselves with tougher enemys.

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Just now, KyoBladezen said:

DE has not forced anyone to be unfriendly.There are already players who refuse to play with people who have not min-maxed, not optimized, or not fully levelled, and they will remain just as disliked as they were before. You have chosen to use this as an excuse to be unfriendly. It is your own fault. 

So why u can't live if someone uses Symulor or Tonkor? Huh?

 

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