Octavia's "Music"

[leumane]

Octavia's music making tool absolutely sucks. Let me start off by saying, I've been farming all god damn week to get her, and I finally did, and I waited 3 whole days for her to build. The main reason I got her was to play with the music, but then I actually go to try it out. To my utter disappointment, You have a stunningly wide variety of THREE NOTES. No half steps, no sharps or flats, just this goddamn pentatonic D scale. While other things frustrated me, such as lack of power of time signature, this absolute failure of a promise of creative freedom is an insult to many. Especially myself, as a musician. This is an outrage.

[AM-Bunny]

It is disappointing, especially when - leading up to her release - the devs pitched it as though you would be able to recreate your favourite tunes.

That being said, it's still more in-depth than most games with Bard characters (which typically permit no control) and it is still an amusing distraction, even if you can't realize your every composition fantasy.

I think the most hilarious part is that she doesn't even have an octave, considering its her namesake.

[leumane]

1 minute ago, AM-Bunny said:

It is disappointing, especially when - leading up to her release - the devs pitched it as though you would be able to recreate your favourite tunes.

That being said, it's still more in-depth than most games with Bard characters (which typically permit no control) and it is still an amusing distraction, even if you can't realize your every composition fantasy.

I think the most hilarious part is that she doesn't even have an octave, considering its her namesake.

Agreed.

[Nezha_Rose]

I have faith this mechanic will get more options as optimizations and feedback continues, Octavia herself is highly experimental at the moment, and anyone can tell.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Nezha_Rose

[leumane]

4 minutes ago, Nezha_Rose said:

I have faith this mechanic will get more options as optimizations and feedback continues, Octavia herself is highly experimental at the moment, and anyone can tell.

I'd hope so.

[DaftMeat]

21 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:

I think the most hilarious part is that she doesn't even have an octave, considering its her namesake.

QFT.

Edit: for further input as another person with a musical background, I agree that the results of working with Pentatonic D are frustrating. Trying to recreate Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Praimus, even Beethoven's 5th left me with very disappointing results due to implementation limitations.

That being said, it is kind of fun trying to get as close as you can despite what we have to work with. I do understand why limits are in place, as "ear cancer" comments are running rampant on the forums and in-game. Hopefully future improvements will make the Mandachord more satisfying.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by DaftMeat

[LuckyCharm]

>.> not to mention tying the ability that relies on doing actions to the beat... to the melody part which usually isn't a beat to begin with. 

But yes, and also the huge hype for "we're going to a music school to record instruments so you'll be able to make your favourite music" and then releasing every single Synth pos thing they could find but no actual instruments really annoyed me at release. I still am yet to hear a composition that I feel I could listen to on endurance missions.. given that shes supposed to be a point defense frame with how they made her abilities all stationary (even though shes totally covered in speakers)

I'm also musically untalented for the most part.. so having the notes labled like A B C D E F would have been nice, just so if I was reading music sheets i could have placed the notes easier. 

[Aenris]

As a musician, i found it a bit disappointing too. Still, i was able to play and have fun with what i had. Of course recreating any favorite music is either impossible or really painful to hear because of the fixed tempo, but still, i was feeling creative and used my song slots already.

I'd love to see some way to change music in mid of a mission. For short missions 4 bars is "ok", but for endless missions is mor like "GOD I'M SO SICK OF MY OWN TUNE"

at least some extra keybinding to swap between our song slots. 

Still, In the end i'm very glad Octavia is what it is. From the start when DE announced a musical frame i was like "what? that's going to be so lame" because every time i hear in any game about "A bard character" it's usually (For me) the most @(*()$ boring thing in the world.

D&D 3.5 bards anyone? at low levels it was so boring in battle. gotta try the new D&D 5e bard tho. looks interesting.)

anyway. Give Octavia an octave! if you can! and let us swap songs in the middle of the mission! The rest is awesome, keep the experimentation up!

Edited March 29, 2017 by Arandabido

[KIREEK]

DE did this in the same way they did many other features, they 1st see the interest players have and then they either reshape it or improve it.

If you buy instrument packs and keep voicing your opinion then they might improve the step sequencer later on, just don't expect the developer team to provide something that is enough to make out of this word, especially since this is just for 1 single warframe niche mechanic.

[Khinsei]

I'm a musician too and I find it quite fun even with the limited options we have. 
You don't need a thousand notes to be creative.

[Xekrin]

I'm not much of a musician, or not at all to be specific so I can't really complain about the lack of freedom.  However I do find it pretty amazing what people have done in such a restrictive environment already.

Such as this one 

Spoiler

 

Musicians may be furious over lack of control, but its still nice to see some are capable of generating some great stuff for us tone deaf bastards to steal.

[MobyTheDuck]

I'm fine with keeping the Pentatonic scale because we all know people would make their entire 'songs' a jumbled mess of disharmony, with mismatched notes every second only to give people headaches.

[Misgenesis]

Didnt they say it was supposed to be simple and easy to understand? Not FL Studio in Warframe.

I personally wouldnt mind if it had more but they have their reasons.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

QFT.

Edit: for further input as another person with a musical background, I agree that the results of working with Pentatonic D are frustrating. Trying to recreate Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Praimus, even Beethoven's 5th left me with very disappointing results due to implementation limitations.

That being said, it is kind of fun trying to get as close as you can despite what we have to work with. I do understand why limits are in place, as "ear cancer" comments are running rampant on the forums and in-game. Hopefully future improvements will make the Mandachord more satisfying.

 

I cant create music, i just dont have the akills to do that.

So instead of making someone suffer from hearing my horrid creation, i made it silent. The beat is simple, i have filled every collum so if someone mashes m1 or e he can get bonuses.

[Enkiou]

14 hours ago, leumane said:

Octavia's music making tool absolutely sucks. Let me start off by saying, I've been farming all god damn week to get her, and I finally did, and I waited 3 whole days for her to build. The main reason I got her was to play with the music, but then I actually go to try it out. To my utter disappointment, You have a stunningly wide variety of THREE NOTES. No half steps, no sharps or flats, just this goddamn pentatonic D scale. While other things frustrated me, such as lack of power of time signature, this absolute failure of a promise of creative freedom is an insult to many. Especially myself, as a musician. This is an outrage.

How did you farm her all week and wait 3 days when the fram was only been out for 4 days? 

[Jobistober]

This is a space shooter video game, not a DAW. If DE had planned to put that much detail into the mandachord, Octavia would not have released when she did, but probably weeks or months later. Then the community would be complaining 'Octavia when?' DE will never be able to make everyone happy. Be grateful for what you did get.

[Fix_Buzlok_Accuracy]

When you create something for a multiplayer game like this, where you're trying to pander to people from all walks of life, it's important to keep something in mind when creating a complex tool such as the mandachord. You have to target the lowest common denominator.

If you make it too complex, people with little to no musical skill (I'd hazard to say most players, especially myself) would become rapidly disinterested in the tool and the frame. By keeping it somewhat simple, and making it possible to create "okay" sounding music without needing to fully study or know what you're doing, they can capture the interest and keep people in the game which is of course important to Warframe's survival and advancement of that particular system. You wouldn't want it to become archwing would you?

Could they add advanced options in the future? Probably. Should they? Only after careful consideration of what the musically incompetent might try to do with it. I for one do not mind the tool in it's current iteration

Edited March 29, 2017 by Krivasran
Fixed a typo.

[Rin01]

16 hours ago, Nezha_Rose said:

I have faith this mechanic will get more options as optimizations and feedback continues, Octavia herself is highly experimental at the moment, and anyone can tell.

Totally agree.

We all have to remember: 1) This is an experimental frame, 2) It is the first iteration of that experiment, and 3) We need to manage our expectations (it's an action rpg not a music program).

Edited March 29, 2017 by Rin01

[Goodwill]

There's a program called FL Studio you could buy/download if you want to have more creative freedom and control over your music.

On topic, it would be harder to code the expressions and effectors and to make adjustments to them if the music is too complicated. It's amazing they threw in this gimmick to begin with when they could've easily just had one prearranged piece. People would've complained, but as usual, they would've moved on.

[kyori]

As music concern.... this frame is a failure.

As game concern...  this frame is pretty much an excel. DE is aiming for this and not the former I presume, cos it is very clear.

[Wiergate]

On 3/29/2017 at 5:27 PM, Krivasran said:

By keeping it somewhat simple, and making it possible to create "okay" sounding music without needing to fully study or know what you're doing, they can capture the interest (...)

Agree fully. As a working musician I had serious misgivings about the whole thing. Apart from an increased risk of lag in-mission the more complex they made the Mandachord, there's no way they could have given us anything even remotely resembling a real musical tool. Giving us a full scale would open up a world of possibilities when modes are considered, giving us a chromatic scale would square that.

I don't know enough about server load and the problems with peer-to-peer connectivity to say how much trouble that would cause, but I know enough about music to hazard a guess. Add to this the fact that the frame has to function intuitively in-game and that there are still a few people out there who think that Rickrolling is funny....Music is a noble art, but it can easily be divisive as all Hek. 

Octavia is already pushing the boundaries of the game's atmosphere in my opinion, and in this case I think the minimalist approach is the only sensible one. 

[Ultrahorst]

I'll let this link here. All Points Bulletin, an extremely customizable third person shooter in 2011 had a perfect example for what Octavia needs. Thousands of Players made music and stuff for their Radios, heard by all players(only the Shooting part of the game sucked ^^)  Thats what I wish for Octavia.

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Ultrahorst

[Reifnir]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:47 AM, AM-Bunny said:

That being said, it's still more in-depth than most games with Bard characters (which typically permit no control)

LOTRO would like to have a word with you...

Granted, not many games allow bard music customization at all, but seeing how present day Warframe can be outdone by a 10-year old game is kinda disappointing.

[LuckyCharm]

People have been making midi's since pretty much windows 95 or (maybe earlier?).. .Why is it so hard to just add a simple midi creator to her. There're tons of examples out there, many so much simpler than others.. surely if they could be done in 95 surely we can do one in 2017. 

[Othergrunty]

On 29.3.2017 at 2:47 AM, AM-Bunny said:

It is disappointing, especially when - leading up to her release - the devs pitched it as though you would be able to recreate your favourite tunes.

That being said, it's still more in-depth than most games with Bard characters (which typically permit no control) and it is still an amusing distraction, even if you can't realize your every composition fantasy.

I think the most hilarious part is that she doesn't even have an octave, considering its her namesake.

Well i'm fine with the limited length of the song and options. I didn't expected anything insanely customizable. So no dissapointment there for me. Also it still shows that they put a ton of work into this little side option for just a single Warframe.

What made me dissapointed in the end however was the choice of the default sounds.

The melody is nothing but a variation of the same "AH!"s, which quickly give me a headache when trying to get them into any sort of tune. Even listening to the default melody of the Octavia theme alone just makes me cringe after a while.

The bass meanwhile just sound... i don't know how to put it. Odd. I understand it's from a real instrument, but nothing i'm used to hearing much. Or maybe i did hear it often in reality, but in game it doesn't seem to ring any bells in my mind. So besides weirding me out, i can't find any right tune for it.

The only part that sounds right to me and which i can work with are the percussions. But in order for Octavia to function i need to adjust all 3 of the categories. Which again, is quite difficult on the bass and near impossible on the melody for me.

Something more straight instrumental or electronic would have been better as default options. At least to me. If the majority of the community is fine with these options. I guess it's fine.

But besides that. The actual mendachord system seems good enough for what it is.

4 hours ago, Ultrahorst said:

I'll let this link here. All Points Bulletin, an extremely customizable third person shooter in 2011 had a perfect example for what Octavia needs. Thousands of Players made music and stuff for their Radios, heard by all players(only the Shooting part of the game sucked ^^)  Thats what I wish for Octavia.

I get the impression that Realtime Worlds, the original developers of the game, spend a ton of their development time on making things like that sound mixing tool or the insanely detailed character customization (body and clothes). Which however seems to have played a role in the game being so limited in actual gameplay by the time they were forced to release it (which didn't managed to make them get back their budget in time so it was shut down after 2 month and the company went out of business).

So while i can understand you wish a similar level of customization here. There is likely a good reason they left it more limited here.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Othergrunty