Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[WhiteMarker]

So... Oberon got better over all. The only thing missing is the unlimited range on his heal. And that was not better then the other things they gave him.
So why don't you want a better Oberon on console? Why do you want to keep on using the weaker version of him? óÒ

[taiiat]

there's still major issues that weren't even acknowledged with Oberon as well as several features needlessly removed while overall usability drastically improved, however... the Youtube Videos you're using for information are garbage and you should be ignoring them out of principle since 19/20 don't understand anything about the game or are just trolls.
stick with Warframe Content that's made for Entertainment purposes, rather than Information purposes.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Briginds said:

But until the changes are made, I stand firm.

As if that makes a difference.

[Windy_Wind]

12 minutes ago, KX297 said:

I also still believe Hallowed Ground needs a pretty hefty range buff.

And Reckoning should have its health orb drop chance applied per hit, not per death. Because currently, killing things with it is pretty unreasonable past (what I consider at least) low levels.  Also, I think the blinding could use some work. It's super short range and the duration is nothing, even when modded for it.

+ 1 to original post. Some good ideas.

Oberon could for sure still use some work.

 

And raise base armor reduction to 40% to match with frost. Frost doesn't even need hollow ground-ish ability to even reduce armor. and this is extremely unfair for Oberon who needs an extra of 50% (100% to cover 360 degree)  energy to do it.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

Can't always trust what you read, try it for yourself, then cast judgement.

[BansheePrime]

11 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

It's threads like this that should prove to DE that they've gotten something wrong along the way. I'm looking at you, renewal nerf. I'm looking at you...

I like the new Renewal. -_- heal does not stop when full and that armor. good lord that armor.

[(PSN)Briginds]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ALG Minuscule36 said:

Can't always trust what you read, try it for yourself, then cast judgement.

I'll head over to my buddies house and try it out on his PC.

[(PSN)Briginds]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ALG Minuscule36 said:

Can't always trust what you read, try it for yourself, then cast judgement.

I'll head over to my buddies house and try it out on his PC.

[SenorClipClop]

So you'd rather keep the Oberon that struggles against Lvl 40-50 mobs, than play a new Oberon who can fearlessly combat Level 80-100 by himself? Maybe you should give it a try before you embarrass yourself with a thread trashing something based on other people's opinions and hearsay.

Also, he may not strip Armor entirely, but permanently removing 30% of it from all foes in a large AoE is nothing to sneeze at.

[IceColdHawk]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Briginds said:

The feedback on him has been pretty bad in all honesty.

The negative feedback consists of "He could use some more" and not "He got nerfed LOLWTF". There is a difference. Sure, there could be a few number adjustments done to oberon to finally fix the last tidbits that he needs. He's still better than he used to. Anyone saying "he got nerfed" is being unrealistic.

15 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

It's threads like this that should prove to DE that they've gotten something wrong along the way. I'm looking at you, renewal nerf. I'm looking at you...

Yes and i'm looking at you...I've already told you:

On 28.4.2017 at 7:42 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Don't worry mate, that's why i chime in to help you out!

Keeping an armor buff + passive healing regeneration for you and the whole team for almost forever? Now that's some neat stuff right there. It's like having nidus' garden as an aura. And yes, range is limited but hand on heart, it had infinite range before but needed a bit of time to reach the target and mostly the ally would die before it reaches him.

Renewal used to be complete trash. Don't lie and think it wasn't. Now it's actually something very nice and combined with phoenix renewal, you can allow teammates to not die every 90 seconds and keep it up for as long as you have energy regardless of how far they currently are.

[redeyedtreefrog]

I still hold my ground that renewal should not be a toggled ability. The fact that you cannot gain energy from non-orb sources while channeling it is a detriment to an energy-hungry warframe, but removing that specific mechanic could set a dangerous precedent of "well oberon can do it, why not banshee/ember/valkyr/excal"... The energy drain, while I have good faith that this would at least be fixed, is further proof that the channeled ability has no place in his kit. Not to mention the ability lost its infinite range AND its ability to affect already-downed teammates, and it's still a quicker healing solution to spam renewal and immediately cancel it than it is to use the ability naturally. In short: Renewal is still plagued with problems, just like before.

My proposition is this: give renewal its old delivery method (the orbs and infinite range). I'd like to see rescue and (sortie)defense targets to get an orb too, but could live without it. The orb seeks out its target, and applies a burst heal and a regenerative buff to the target. Not a channeled regen. Just a buff. That way, oberon only needs to spend one burst amount of energy. If we're keeping the current mechanics of iron renewal, iron renewal would be applied to targets standing on hallowed ground. I'd like to see the iron renewal buff get refreshed if you re-cast renewal before the buff disappears (thus not tying your whole team to a small spot on the ground), but I'm not sure if this would pull oberon away from what DE wants him to be.

On that note, iron renewal: I've heard other people mention this, and I must say I agree with it: Iron renewal is applied to any target affected by renewal, with a slightly lower strength. However, if a target with iron renewal recieves the hallowed ground buff, hallowed ground applies a multiplier to that armor buff, affected by power strength. If he does get the rage passive(which, by the way, I personally don't support; not that I'm against it, I just think the pet passive is fine, and messing around with oberon's passive doesn't register as high-priority on my mental list of problems with the rework), and his armor or health values don't also get buffed, this will be what he needs in order to make use of his passive past star-chart levels.

[(PSN)maelstromm15]

6 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Again, read the comment above. When Oberon isn't able to make use of Smite and Reckoning and only builds around Iron Renewal, he turns himself into a gimped Chroma. Chroma can achieve tens of thousands of armor and massive damage and Life Strike is just as if not more effective than the heal over time.

Oberon is at his best when he is able to use all 4 of his abilities and the synergies between them. This is coming from a solo-Mot endurance players who's taken Oberon past 60 minutes solo without Naramon multiple times this week alone.

I did say in the quoted post that he can't compare to the hyper tanks. I never said he was GOOD, just that he is capable of doing sorties without too much difficulty. Using a caster/support build, I usually can't make it past that level of enemy without relying on broken weapons/focus, or a teammate's abilities. 

[Evanescent]

Not bad, from skimming through the post. I don't know if DE will go so far but the suggestions are nice. 

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Try yourself before judge...

[Wrum]

give this a watch i think he covers it quite well. be warned for foul and suggestive language this guy is flamboyant as hell.

[redeyedtreefrog]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Renewal used to be complete trash. Don't lie and think it wasn't. Now it's actually something very nice and combined with phoenix renewal, you can allow teammates to not die every 90 seconds and keep it up for as long as you have energy regardless of how far they currently are.

Renewal USED to be complete trash. Then they nerfed it needlessly. Then they fixed one- ONE!- of the problems that it had originally. Then they turned it into a channel with obscene energy drains (Currently, casting renewal anywhere near nekros' shadows is an instant goodbye to your energy pool). Not to mention, it being a channel now prevents oberon from gaining energy from things like zenurik, EV, or energy pizzas, and energy is something that oberon needs badly. In his current state, rage builds can only take him so far before he's more likely to die than make it out with a full energy pool. Renewal should never have been a channeled ability. And now renewal is more of a channeled ability than ever.

If you think that renewal is good as-is, you do not appreciate oberon for what he is.

[(PSN)maelstromm15]

9 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Beyond basic survibility... can i use his powers with that build? As in... can I do anything other than JUST surviving?

Smite can be used, HG can occasionally be used, mostly for CC cleanse or to start Iron Renewal, and Reckoning can be used in a pinch, to give yourself some breathing room to heal. You can't spam abilities, but you can use them.

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Renewal USED to be complete trash. Then they nerfed it needlessly. Then they fixed one- ONE!- of the problems that it had originally. Then they turned it into a channel with obscene energy drains (Currently, casting renewal anywhere near nekros' shadows is an instant goodbye to your energy pool). Not to mention, it being a channel now prevents oberon from gaining energy from things like zenurik, EV, or energy pizzas, and energy is something that oberon needs badly. In his current state, rage builds can only take him so far before he's more likely to die than make it out with a full energy pool. Renewal should never have been a channeled ability. And now renewal is more of a channeled ability than ever.

If you think that renewal is good as-is, you do not appreciate oberon for what he is.

That's why people come up with ideas to make oberon gain some energy through his abilities, reduce the costs of some abilities or a buff to his energy pool (which hopefully comes with the prime). You can just turn renewal off if you don't need it or want to refill some energy through zenurik. But no one denies that he got some energy problems. Just, now i can at least have some incredible benefits with renewal which also came into action in sorties. I couldn't do that before.

[WhiteMarker]

8 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

In his current state, rage builds can only take him so far before he's more likely to die than make it out with a full energy pool.

Lower Energy-Costs wont help Oberon, if something like this is happening... 

[redeyedtreefrog]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

That's why people come up with ideas to make oberon gain some energy through his abilities, reduce the costs of some abilities or a buff to his energy pool (which hopefully comes with the prime). You can just turn renewal off if you don't need it or want to refill some energy through zenurik. But no one denies that he got some energy problems. Just, now i can at least have some incredible benefits with renewal which also came into action in sorties. I couldn't do that before.

I'm not denying that the current version of renewal does have benefits. However, as you've stated, renewal itself does have problems (the energy problem is exacerbated by the channeled effects)... In my opinion, none of the stages in the renewal rework were truly good, though. If you want good heals, you're either going to have to build high strength or re-cast renewal over and over to get the best heals per second(which is also true of high-strength builds, anyways). The channeled drain forces you to press an extra button to cancel the heal before casting it again. I'll say it again: just make renewal a refreshable buff with infinite range. In essence: exactly what it was before, but without the annoying, clunky channeled mechanic. You'd lose the ease of keeping iron renewal on targets for long periods, but you'd gain a much smoother casting flow, plus the infinite range, which, I might remind you, is the biggest thing that made bleedout reduction mean anything. I'll also put phoenix renewal into the equation, stating that phoenix renewal could be considered most useful if it tripped in a place where the ally is far away, as opposed to right beside you/on your hallowed ground where reviving them likely would have been easy anyways.

[redeyedtreefrog]

3 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Lower Energy-Costs wont help Oberon, if something like this is happening... 

You aren't entirely wrong, nor are you entirely right. Lower energy costs could allow other sources of energy like zenurik and orbs to have a greater effect, lowering the need to purposefully take damage. 

Also, I believe that currently the argument for lower energy costs are for renewal's drain(a problem which would never have happened had they kept renewal as a buff instead of a channel), which is a base drain of 2 plus 3 energy for every ally affected. This includes rescue targets, inaros' sand ghosts, nekros' shadows of the dead, members of your ally faction in invasion missions, syndicate operatives, specters, and sortie defense targets. And those are just the ones I can confirm. Renewal might even try to heal things like atlas' rumblers or saryn's molt/loki's decoy. This would be a pretty cool effect, to be honest, if it weren't for the fact that affecting 7 shadows plus 3 teammates weren't a total base energy drain of Thirty-Two Energy Per Second.

[An8rchy]

I Like every single idea of this rework but i only have 1 problem.
The 50% on hit for both orbs. Yes I love that you made it on hit but on hit 50% seems too high, on my last posts i always said 25% since a max range oberon could just farm orbs all day if it was 50%. Also, in another note:

I would say 25% to hp orbs but 15% on energy. Since most  of the time energy>hp 
Or Could be 50% to both orbs but those orbs are 50% less effective as "normal" orbs

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

 

44 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

I still hold my ground that renewal should not be a toggled ability. The fact that you cannot gain energy from non-orb sources while channeling it is a detriment to an energy-hungry warframe, but removing that specific mechanic could set a dangerous precedent of "well oberon can do it, why not banshee/ember/valkyr/excal"... The energy drain, while I have good faith that this would at least be fixed, is further proof that the channeled ability has no place in his kit. Not to mention the ability lost its infinite range AND its ability to affect already-downed teammates, and it's still a quicker healing solution to spam renewal and immediately cancel it than it is to use the ability naturally. In short: Renewal is still plagued with problems, just like before.

My proposition is this: give renewal its old delivery method (the orbs and infinite range). I'd like to see rescue and (sortie)defense targets to get an orb too, but could live without it.

The orb seeks out its target, and applies a burst heal and a regenerative buff to the target. Not a channeled regen. Just a buff. That way, oberon only needs to spend one burst amount of energy. If we're keeping the current mechanics of iron renewal, iron renewal would be applied to targets standing on hallowed ground.

Thank you so much for your feedback! Though I have to disagree on the toggled due to my take on changing hallowed ground. I believe (and should clarify) that hallowed ground would allow you to gain energy (as mentioned) while channelling. Though i agree that it is cumbersome for such an energy hungry frame, I believe that the changes to hallowed ground and the addition of a rage passive would supply Oberon with a reasonable amount of energy to cast other abilities in his kit during channeling but when reckoning is cast a player can turn the toggle off and have a 50% chance to drop energy orbs, once energy is restored Oberon may begin channeling again or whenver the player choses. The reason I support toggled renewal is it's superior ability to HOT heal compared to the previous orbs. It provides the heal faster (though not as far) and can allows two different modding possibilities. Either crank up the efficiency and duration so that it works as a "permabuff" (like many do now) or a toggle on toggle off as the team requires build.

Though I'll admit I miss the infinite range A TON, I have been testing out the new range to decent effectiveness, especially with power strength. But again, if hallowed ground possesses the ability to be carried as an aura, Oberon never has to worry about iron renewal if it works the same as it does now since he will be within range of his teammates. 

Though the idea of a frame healing positions seems like a very fun and useful idea, it's far more effective job for instant healing type frames to my knowledge. An objective that is continually being targeted does not benefit as much from HOT healing especially without armor on the objective, but it would help during lull time, the only problem is, if objectives were healing at the crazy amount teammates heal right now under renewal, DE would either nerf the heal into the ground or remove the ability to heal objectives. That's at least what I imagine would happen, but unless you can come up with a strong counter argument I don't see it feasibly being added (but by all means I want an argument, I want Oberon to be good as long as we can balance him somehow). 

Thanks again for feedback! Please keep updating this post

Edited May 2, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

2 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

I Like every single idea of this rework but i only have 1 problem.
The 50% on hit for both orbs. Yes I love that you made it on hit but on hit 50% seems too high, on my last posts i always said 25% since a max range oberon could just farm orbs all day if it was 50%. Also, in another note:

I would say 25% to hp orbs but 15% on energy. Since most  of the time energy>hp 
Or Could be 50% to both orbs but those orbs are 50% less effective as "normal" orbs

I was thinking the same thing actually.

After first posting this I have since come to the opinion that 50% is a bit too generous. I really really really want the "less effective" orbs to be implemented, but that may mess up an equilibrium build since it's so minimal. 

I'm not sure on what should be changed yet, I want more feedback before a proposed change is made (I might make a section of that in my post). Thank you so much for the good criticism through!

[Doomsknightmare]

Broberon is definitely better after the buff, but the Hallow Ground combo kind of sucks with its range limit and Renewal's range got nerfed, too :(