Design Council Challenge Discussion and Feedback

[CoffeeMonster42]

Even more annoying are that catalysts/reactors are still a thing. Most equipment is totally useless without one. 

[PrivateRiem]

2 hours ago, DSpite said:

If they had some sort of diminishing returns or more restrictions,

Infested enemies don't have armour.

This would have been a whole lot more challenging with Grineer or Corpus units.

[DSpite]

23 minutes ago, PrivateRiem said:

Infested enemies don't have armour.

This would have been a whole lot more challenging with Grineer or Corpus units.

I'm not sure what you mean. I was implying that we need a better power-cap and better limiting mechanics for players, not referring to enemies.

[Zendadaist]

Took us two tries. At one point the Juggernaut was underneath the pod and no one could do a damn thing about it because it was immune to everything. Also, can Nyx have the Jugg's version of psychic bolts please? Because seriously, Jugg's version would make a corrupted napalm-bombard hybrid weep with envy.

[Naftal]

3 hours ago, DSpite said:

Throwing broken units at us because we have broken Frames and weapons? How does that make sense exactly?

Because balance. I don't understand how that doesn't make sense.

They should just nerf all our OP bullS#&$ so they don't have to make bullS#&$ enemies.

[Nidaria]

/cough
nidus

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Naftal said:

Because balance. I don't understand how that doesn't make sense.

They should just nerf all our OP bullS#&$ so they don't have to make bullS#&$ enemies.

You do know that these enemies are horrible because of the absurd scaling issues with the enemies?

Do you honestly think scaling down our equipment would change the fact that a lv100 scaled corpus tech can mow down our squads faster then we could hurt him?

Corpus uses absurd strategies which require high power gear to deal with, the grineer becomes moving pieces of armor and the infested fill up the place with eximus ancients faster then i glaxion uses up ammo.

Before DE touches our gear they should look at the core of the problem, theres a reason why every user wants to make their gear OP.

[shadow0727]

23 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

After reading through the thread we're seeing a lot of praise for this past Friday's Council alert with equal amounts of concern and frustration. Some of you enjoyed the fight and surprise Juggernaut at the end, others not so much. In contrast to the traditional Gift From the Lotus alert, the Council Challenge should make you sweat a bit (I know I did, "palms sweaty, moms spaghetti" style). As its title suggests, it is a challenge after-all.

That said, we're seeing a lot of unfair blame placed on the Design Council. For transparency sake, the procedure of the Council Challenges goes as follows: Design Council members are given a restricted and specific list of conditions to vote on. Once the poll has closed, the top voted conditions are used to create the alert. The Juggernaut was not something the Design Council had control over, or were even aware of until the alert went live. 

To be fair, on any other day a level 100 Infested defense mission is a breeze for many of you, so a surprise visit from the ol' Juggy was an appropriate addition to really crank up the heat. However, we understand that the liberties we took with this alert might of been a bit of a shock to the system for the community and the Design Council in light of the other conditions present in the alert.

At the end of the day, we're happy to see that you're interested in discussing the alerts because it gives us a better idea of how to proceed with them moving forward. Thank you for your feedback as always! 

While i can understand the frustration from members of the community, the alert clearly stated the enemies were 90+. Regardless of the faction, if someone brought in a kit that wasnt suited for that type of mission or the enemy level, they will complain that it was difficult. I ran it with a pub matchup and didnt realize that it was even 90+ enemies and we were still able to complete this on the first try, without anyone running out of revives. Yes it was hella difficult dealing with a 100+ juggernaut without a good setup, but it is very welcomed.

 

Please DE, keep more alerts like this coming!!!

[KirukaChan]

Next time there's a surprise Juggernaut, I want access to my guns. You know, the weapons that can actually deal with enemies that need to be hit in their weak spots.

Having to pop my Operator out and whittle down its HP with the void beam was so damn boring.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Like many others have reported, our Juggernaut was stuck under the stairs.  I found a spot where I could attack it but it couldn't attack me, and I just spun with my Galatine Prime, building up my combo.  Half the hits were connecting with the weak point.  After about 15 minutes of non-stop attacks, it still had 2/3 of its health.  Even with this extreme advantage, we weren't going to be able to beat it with the gear we brought in without boring ourselves to tears.

I think the biggest upset for me was that the Juggernaut appeared at the end of 10 waves.  My spouse and I were feeling so happy and excited that we had almost beat the challenge, and then that excitement just turned into despair.  The huge difficulty spike right before victory suckerpunched us.

I don't think we would have minded coming back to experiment with different strategies if it had just been a mission where we had to kill the Juggernaut, but having to grind through 10 waves of high-level Infested just to get to the point where we could try new strategies was too much for us.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

Asking again (though it seems futile at this point), was ANYONE being continuously struck with lighning at random intervals? I'm very confused....

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Just now, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Asking again (though it seems futile at this point), was ANYONE being continuously struck with lighning at random intervals? I'm very confused....

Yes, I was. Happened several times; stripped my shields, etc. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

Oh yes, I forgot about that part!  There were no enemies left attacking, and I was literally dying due to lightning continuously striking me. :(

[Zookes]

Thought to use Nidus for this. Never used him before so seriously.

 

It was fun.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Zookes

[Darkuhn]

i did the chalange with 3 other randoms and an 170% Powerstrength Oberon. After the Juggernaut made his entry, two left the group. So i was left with an Ash whith what seamd like an Duration Build. Some might say with this setup it isn´t possible to beat an lv 125 Juggy, BUT it was rather easy because of my Zenurik Focus i were able to spamm Oberons new First ability and it dealt TONNS and TONNS of Damage to the poor Juggy...

I liked the Challenge realy much because it encouraged an more thoughtful aproach than the Rest of the Game.
It was a Challenge for the wohle Playerbase. But at no Point were it unfair or unbeatable.

This topic is basicaly about the OP saying: "I cant use my guns so the one hard enemy is unkillable and unfair"  But that isn´t true at all there are so many possibilities other than Guns to beat such an enemy in this Game that i find it sad to conclude "No guns = not fair/beatable"

As a Member of the Design Council i definetly will Vote for other Challenges like this one, because i enjoyed it :)
 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Darkuhn

[moon.boots]

On 5/1/2017 at 11:13 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

To be fair, on any other day a level 100 Infested defense mission is a breeze for many of you, so a surprise visit from the ol' Juggy was an appropriate addition to really crank up the heat. However, we understand that the liberties we took with this alert might of been a bit of a shock to the system for the community and the Design Council in light of the other conditions present in the alert.

Another person checking in to say that the alert itself was fun, but the Juggernaut's broken mechanics (instakill punchthrough spikes, spike hitboxes being seemingly infinite and nowhere near the model, etc) were very much not. High-level Juggs only serves to highlight what a buggy mess that enemy is--and that's not even getting into the issues with the level geometry. Not only does Juggs tend to rocket off into space or clip into walls/under stairs, melee doesn't interact with staircases well at all and you often end up just walking on the enemy's head.

[(PSN)Lostmuppet]

If you want to make a challenging event how about one where all mods are disabled and all warframes are taken down to base level. Everyone would have a equal chance of completing it regardless of progress or gear and it would actually be a test of skill. Let's see if the elite players can cheese that and claim it's easy.  

[Rolunde]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lostmuppet said:

If you want to make a challenging event how about one where all mods are disabled and all warframes are taken down to base level. Everyone would have a equal chance of completing it regardless of progress or gear and it would actually be a test of skill. Let's see if the elite players can cheese that and claim it's easy.  

 

If you missed it, build a time machine and come back last Halloween when our Challenge Event (Hallowed Nightmares) had everything normalized to
100 health/shields and then 50 health/shields, no powers, no pets/sentinels, no weapons.

Spoiler

Rewards

Mechanics

• This alert features the Halloween Nightmare Mode, which has the following restrictions:
  • Players will be unable to use their weapons, Companions, or Warframe powers.
  • All players start with only a set amount of Health and Shields regardless of the selected Warframe: The first mission gives players only 100 Health and 100 Shields, while the second Endurance mission gives only 50 Health and Shields. Players are also unable to recover or receive Energy.
  • Attacks are limited to melee using the Warframe's hands and feet with Sparring-type movesets, and damage dealt by Maneuvers like Bullet Jump. While the players's melee attacks can benefit from the Melee Combo Counter, players are unable to use Channeling.
  • Weapon and Warframe Mods are disabled during the alert. The only exceptions are Auras and Exilus mods, whose effects remain active.
  • Players will be unable to access their Gear menu during the mission. Hotkeys will also be disabled, though Ciphers can still be used from inside the hacking screen.
• Both the first mission and the second Endurance mission is an Assassination mission (although labelled Sabotage) where players must head to a designated location on the map while surviving or avoiding Infested. At a certain point, players must unlock a door with two receptacles on it by finding Power Cells on the tileset where said door is located, with said Power Cells being given by hacking two control consoles. Bringing the Power Cells to the receptacles will open the locked door.
  • The objective location houses a large Jack O' Lantern, which will spawn a Jack O'Naut, -an Infested Juggernaut that has a Jack O' Lantern for a head- which players must kill. As players are unable to use weapons or powers, the only way to defeat the Jack O' Naut is by destroying tall explosive containers consisting of three stacked Jack O' Lanterns, which will release a Fire Blast around the immediate area that can damage the Jack O' Naut. Once killed, players can immediately head to extraction.
    • Luring the Jack O'Naut into charging into explosive barrels is risky but does good damage.
• The second Endurance mission also has the side objective of finding three Resource Caches, which provide additional special rewards including Aura and Nightmare Mods.
• Both alert missions take place on Earth, on a special version of the Grineer Forest tileset that features thick, orange fog that limits player vision.

4

We got a Catalyst b.p. for that one too, haha.

[Chipputer]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Lostmuppet said:

Let's see if the elite players can cheese that and claim it's easy.  

Been there, done that. It was easy.

[MagPrime]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Lostmuppet said:

If you want to make a challenging event how about one where all mods are disabled and all warframes are taken down to base level. Everyone would have a equal chance of completing it regardless of progress or gear and it would actually be a test of skill. Let's see if the elite players can cheese that and claim it's easy.  

I'm by no means an elite player, but yeah, been there, won that.

[RistN]

I love these kind of missions.Like that survival mission where you and enemies were invulnerable.All you have to do is use you're knowlage and solution is always quite simple.I don't know why is this such a big deal when everything in this game could be done easy with right equipment and choices.In this alert for example it didn't take me even 10 seconds to kill Jugg.

[Fallen_Echo]

13 hours ago, Darkuhn said:

i did the chalange with 3 other randoms and an 170% Powerstrength Oberon. After the Juggernaut made his entry, two left the group. So i was left with an Ash whith what seamd like an Duration Build. Some might say with this setup it isn´t possible to beat an lv 125 Juggy, BUT it was rather easy because of my Zenurik Focus i were able to spamm Oberons new First ability and it dealt TONNS and TONNS of Damage to the poor Juggy...

I liked the Challenge realy much because it encouraged an more thoughtful aproach than the Rest of the Game.
It was a Challenge for the wohle Playerbase. But at no Point were it unfair or unbeatable.

This topic is basicaly about the OP saying: "I cant use my guns so the one hard enemy is unkillable and unfair"  But that isn´t true at all there are so many possibilities other than Guns to beat such an enemy in this Game that i find it sad to conclude "No guns = not fair/beatable"

As a Member of the Design Council i definetly will Vote for other Challenges like this one, because i enjoyed it :)
 

 

 

 

Now try doing that with a limbo and an invisibility loki.

The challange was doable, but if you decided to go in with a frame who dont have damaging powers you are screwed. (or atleast hope for someone is tank enough to draw agro while you operator beam him to death.)

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

I love these kind of missions.Like that survival mission where you and enemies were invulnerable.All you have to do is use you're knowlage and solution is always quite simple.I don't know why is this such a big deal when everything in this game could be done easy with right equipment and choices.In this alert for example it didn't take me even 10 seconds to kill Jugg.

I remeber that one, casting mind control and chaos with nyx actually managed to kill some of them.

[KazaComet]

juggernaut was definitely something groups had to learn about the plan around in their next attempt, took good coordination and team work to have a chance at dropping him, suspect very few players were able to solo his butt

tbh i don't think surprises at the end are a bad thing, but maybe a heads up about a juggernaut that exhibited different behaviors of normal juggernauts would have reduced some player frustration some, normal juggernauts don't have boss/rift immunity, so normally a limbo pull them into stasis at the exact second they expose their underbelly, the design challenge juggernaut was immune to both stasis and being pulled into the rift and i suspect may have been immune to other mechanics players might relay on normally to beat juggernauts, though in the future very much looking forward to shield gating for fighting juggernauts :D

[AdunSaveMe]

On 02/05/2017 at 1:13 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

After reading through the thread we're seeing a lot of praise for this past Friday's Council alert with equal amounts of concern and frustration. Some of you enjoyed the fight and surprise Juggernaut at the end, others not so much. In contrast to the traditional Gift From the Lotus alert, the Council Challenge should make you sweat a bit (I know I did, "palms sweaty, moms spaghetti" style). As its title suggests, it is a challenge after-all.

A level 120 Juggernaut is a completely artificial challenge, barely based on skill. The only way to defeat it without wanting to tear your hair out is by cheesing it. If anything, it just highlighted the design problems Juggernauts have.

Edited May 11, 2017 by AdunSaveMe