Riven capacity is ONLY 60?!

[MurderHoboDinosaur]

I have grave news tenno, it seems we cannot have more than 60 rivens at any one time. I was unable to buy more slots!

 

Why is this a thing?

 

Can any of the @Staff shed light on this? @[DE]Rebecca?

Edited May 12, 2017 by MurderHoboDinosaur

[Maicael]

This limit has been there since purchasing riven slots was introduced. Here's some stuff for you to read over about why.

 

[kaliazane]

How about lets remove that pointless limit -_-

[xXDeadsinxX]

Most likely limited to 60 because it takes a toll on the servers and if it wasn't limited you would be able to have hundreds and hundreds of rivens for each weapon, would probably fry the servers which is why it's limited.

[Dwolfknight]

7 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

How about lets remove that pointless limit -_-

It is not pointless, it serves the purpose of not overloading the server with Riven information. It's easy to store mods because they all have the same values, so instead you just have to store how many of those mods people have and at what rank bur Rivens are different, they are all unique, meaning that each Riven has to have its status stored individually, 60 Rivens per person means 60 individual mods that have to be stored, multiply that number by a number of players that have Rivens and that can easily surpass a number of mods we have in the game currently, if there were no limits that would start to affect the servers.

[Hixlysss]

13 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

How about lets remove that pointless limit -_-

 

1 minute ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Most likely limited to 60 because it takes a toll on the servers and if it wasn't limited you would be able to have hundreds and hundreds of rivens for each weapon, would probably fry the servers which is why it's limited.

This guy gets it. There is a purpose behind the limit and he got it.

[[DE]Momaw]

DE has said many times that riven mods take up a lot more database size than other mods, and that the low capacity and high cost of buying more capacity is to put a brake on how much database space is spent on rivens.

Normal mod:  Mod ID, fusion level, acquisition date

Riven: Mod ID, fusion level, acquisition date, veiled/unveiled status, challenge type, challenge progress, reroll quantity, MR requirement, weapon type, modifer-type[1-4], modifier-quantity[1-4]

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

so we can have thousands of random mods, but only 60 rivens?

[Moysa]

ppl have 60 rivens, im lucky i have 12.... and ive been doing sorties every day since they came out. granted, id probably have more rivens, if so many of em werent for complete crap like the gorgon, bronko/akbronko, single kohmak, etc.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Moysa

[(PSN)lhbuch]

24 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

How about lets remove that pointless limit -_-

Well I agree with you. I understand that there are technical issues but come on, I cant believe that it is not possible to change the limit.

 

 

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Why would someone want to keep more than 60 riven... I barely have 5 and I'm having the time of my life with my 2 most favourite weapons.

I can understand trading to a certain level, but other than that, what purpose do you have in holding a Riven for every existing weapon in the game, in double/triple even...

[Agent40]

35 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

How about lets remove that pointless limit -_-

You do realise that would mean all the plat everyone has spent on Riven slots would have to be re-funded right? 

I think It would be amazing if they didn't even add the limit and pricing to riven slots in the first place. However, at this point in time, with the amount of plat being spent on Riven slots, I doubt this will come into play ever.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Agent40Infinity

[redeyedtreefrog]

Yes. Each riven takes up what is probably a mountain of data compared to the amount of data needed to store most other player-specific variables. You need to store data on the riven's weapon, the MR rank of the riven, the polarity of the mod, the number of rerolls the riven has, its stats, AND the individual values for each one of those stats.

Personally, I feel that if there was no stat variation (ex. a riven with 3 positive, 1 negative stats for, say, sobek, could give +200% dmg, as opposed to a range from 190 to 210. those probably aren't the actual numbers but you get the idea) would cut down on a large amount of the data rivens take up, potentially allowing DE to expand the number of rivens we can have at any given time.

However, I also don't think that it's necessary. There's roughly 300 weapons in the game, all told, and this is counting prisma/vandal/wraith/prime/dex/etc weapon variants, sentinel weapons, and archwing weapons. weapons are counted by families by riven mods: According to a riven, braton, mk-1 braton, and braton prime are all the same weapon. So, currently, you can have a riven for, I would guess at least half of all the weapons in the game. And let's face it: no single person uses most weapons often enough to justify needing a riven for it. Currently, the maximum riven count is perfectly fine imo.

[MakeLuvNotWerFrame]

21 minutes ago, Agent40Infinity said:

You do realise that would mean all the plat everyone has spent on Riven slots would have to be re-funded right? 

I think It would be amazing if they didn't even add the limit and pricing to riven slots in the first place. However, at this point in time, with the amount of plat being spent on Riven slots, I doubt this will come into play ever.

I do hope you eventually realize the we're talking about removing a limit on buying slots and not making slots free.

 

an to affirm the point, do you all remember that silly little goofball the went and built 100 oberons in order to compel the dev's to rework him?

now what if each frame had a different loadout how would that be any different data storage wise then having 100 rivens?

 

the consistency on restrictions comes into question for those that apply reason to action.

 

not everyone has 100+ frames, but the freedom to do so remains open to those that seek it, so the same should apply to rivens.

not everybody is going to horde 100-200+ rivens but there will be those few that will, for whatever reason they justify with, and that should be ok as well.

 

if I were to have been in charge of implementing rivens into warframe I would have embedded an decoding algorithm into clients and stored riven stat combinations in a fashion remarkably similar to IPv6 network addressing

IPv6 addresses are represented as eight groups of four hexadecimal digits thus allowing for ~3.4×10³⁸ possible unique rivens if going by that method.

Edited May 12, 2017 by MakeLuvNotWerFrame

[Xekrin]

57 minutes ago, MurderHoboDinosaur said:

Can any of the @Staff shed light on this?

No light need be shed for this, it was already explained, in detail many times.  Delete or sell some.

[NaoEthelia]

36 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

so we can have thousands of random mods, but only 60 rivens?

Just so you know, a single Riven can have 42,780 different combinations, not including MR or the possible variances in percentages. Thousands of mods has got nothing on that scale.

Edited May 12, 2017 by NaoEthelia

[Agent40]

20 minutes ago, NaoEthelia said:

Just so you know, a single Riven can have 42,780 different combinations, not including MR or the possible variances in percentages. Thousands of mods has got nothing on that scale.

Just so you know, you do know how little data this uses and coding it would take to create a algorithm like this? If the storage system for warframe is how I think it is with player data and the servers, then each player only holds a small amount of data. 

Also No I did not realise that. The reason I thought this was because the comments people were making weren't specifying that from the way I read it.

32 minutes ago, MakeLuvNotWerFrame said:

I do hope you eventually realize the we're talking about removing a limit on buying slots and not making slots free.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Agent40Infinity

[NaoEthelia]

43 minutes ago, Agent40Infinity said:

Just so you know, you do know how little data this uses and coding it would take to create a algorithm like this? If the storage system for warframe is how I think it is with player data and the servers, then each player only holds a small amount of data. 

Just so you know, the percentages of the rivens are completely random and cannot be carelessly assigned to a hardcoded algorithm like that, especially since some percentages (damage to factions) have less values while other percentages (damage, critical chance, crtical damage) have alot more values.

For example, if you store a riven in a three-column database like this: [Riven Weapon | Combination ID | Rank], how do you know what kind of riven ID 37,401 is without reversing the algorithm first? How do you factor in the every single possible permutation the percentages could have, that can reach literally trillions and trillions (not even exaggerating) of combinations? How do you make sure you aren't putting 230.4% into Damage to Grineer?

This is both an expensive and inflexible database model and algorithm for any programmers and should be discarded immediately. If you think the player data are stored like you imagine, then by all means feel free to answer my questions.

Edited May 12, 2017 by NaoEthelia

[Agent40]

1 hour ago, NaoEthelia said:

Just so you know, the percentages of the rivens are completely random and cannot be carelessly assigned to a hardcoded algorithm like that, especially since some percentages (damage to factions) have less values while other percentages (damage, critical chance, crtical damage) have alot more values.

For example, if you store a riven in a three-column database like this: [Riven Weapon | Combination ID | Rank], how do you know what kind of riven ID 37,401 is without reversing the algorithm first? How do you factor in the every single possible permutation the percentages could have, that can reach literally trillions and trillions (not even exaggerating) of combinations? How do you make sure you aren't putting 230.4% into Damage to Grineer?

This is both an expensive and inflexible database model and algorithm for any programmers and should be discarded immediately. If you think the player data are stored like you imagine, then by all means feel free to answer my questions.

I have a question to respond to your question. How do you think it works? Every Variable can be capped and has a minimum correct? As I was saying, If it works how I believe it works, All the possible combinations are randomly generated as per opening or when you get the riven in the first place. This means that you would have a value to calculate the what type of riven it would be in the first place (This is suggested by the Riven disposition). Then it would go into a table of values (Mod adjustments) which would randomly choose these values based off of the rarity given to these values or just based purely off of a randomly generated number for each element. After that it would go into a table of contents containing all the possible calculations for Rivens (Percentages set by cap and min). Using these values it can then generate negative effects and positive effects based off a basic random number generation table. This then would transfer into the possibilities of randomly generator stats based off of Mastery Rank which would hold it's own value and combine that with things like Slot Polarities and the Generation of stats per rank.

That's how I see it working anyway. Kind of simple in retrospect by my mind. Also you do hold a point in your last short paragraph.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Agent40Infinity

[Nez-Kal]

2 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Why would someone want to keep more than 60 riven... I barely have 5 and I'm having the time of my life with my 2 most favourite weapons.

I can understand trading to a certain level, but other than that, what purpose do you have in holding a Riven for every existing weapon in the game, in double/triple even...

I actually can provide more feedback for that in terms of "For Trading".

 

See, I do a lot of Riven Trades and Sales. One key Rivens Sales technique is Popularity. With Popularity, your Riven doesn't need to have Great or GOD stats to sell, it just has to be a [Insert Popular Weapon] Riven to do it.

Now, we have our Meta Weapons, and Rivens for those sell pretty well, but there's another weapon type that sells WAY more Rivens than even those, and that's "New Release".

 

Now, as a Riven Traders and Seller I ALWAYS have my ears open for rumors of upcoming Weapons or New Variants in Warframe, keeping (or attempting to, anyway) a stock of Veiled Rivens for cracking the moment Rivens for a new weapon are confirmed to exist for a chance of getting one of them, and keeping a stock pile of "Soon to Sell" Rivens for, in the past, things like Ignis and Supra. (Each right before their new Variant releases)

 

At the moment it's already a HUGE pain for me trying to keep this sales (And Personal Keeps) Riven inventory system going with the 60 mod limitation (It's like playing a Bethesda game all over again. x'D), but I do understand why it exist as well. I've already hit my 60 max time and time again, usually maxing out when stocking for previously mentioned new variant releases, but it's going to be an even bigger pain for me soon, thanks to Melee Rivens coming out, and I have NO idea how I'm going to manage my inventory with their Release. =w="

[Volinus7]

PlugY Warframe? Lol 

 

There you go...

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Volinus7

[kaliazane]

9 hours ago, Dwolfknight said:

It is not pointless, it serves the purpose of not overloading the server with Riven information. It's easy to store mods because they all have the same values, so instead you just have to store how many of those mods people have and at what rank bur Rivens are different, they are all unique, meaning that each Riven has to have its status stored individually, 60 Rivens per person means 60 individual mods that have to be stored, multiply that number by a number of players that have Rivens and that can easily surpass a number of mods we have in the game currently, if there were no limits that would start to affect the servers.

No limit equals more slot sales, more sales equals more money, more money equals investing it into servers, better servers equals no limit. We made full circle.

Well maybe not no limit, but come on. They could increase it to 500 and that would be enough for everyone, while only some veterans would even purchase that many slots.

60 is low and it will be very low once Melee rivens are here.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by ViS4GE

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

<snip>

Its not just storage space.
Its retrieving your mods and displaying them be it in trading or in your mod list or even your arsenal.

Storage is just one part of the problem, and often the smaller part.
The other side of things is fetching it all from the data store and displaying it in a timely manner.
Unlimited riven space means slower loading in of your mod list anywhere.  And trust me, customers generally rant more about slowish performance than anything else wrong with a product.

11 hours ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

so we can have thousands of random mods, but only 60 rivens?

There is a massive difference in stage space, and retrieval speed, between a normal mod like:
<player_id>, <mod_id>, <mod_rank>, <Number_of_mod_player_has>
And a riven mod:
<player_id>, <mod_id>, <mod_rank>, <mr_requirement>, <mod_polarity>, <mod_effect_1>, <mod_effect_1_value>, <mod_effect_2>, <mod_effect_2_value>, <mod_effect_3>, <mod_effect_3_value>, <mod_effect_4>, <mod_effect_4_value>, <veiled_status>, <veiled_challenge>, <reroll_count>

It is not just storage to consider, but retrieval and display in the various mod UIs.

[Callback]

The only real issue with the storage cap is that we have nothing good we can do with extras.

 

They dissolve for crap.  Way less than even the 2k "minimum" sortie prize, making junk rivens the WORST possible thing to get from one.

 

We need riven fusion, or a way to use junk rivens as fodder to somehow improve our collection.  Eating a junk riven to reset your reroll count, for example.  Give some unique riven functions that can consume junk rivens instead of having them as worthless pittances of endo.

[Dwolfknight]

4 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

No limit equals more slot sales, more sales equals more money, more money equals investing it into servers, better servers equals no limit. We made full circle.

Well maybe not no limit, but come on. They could increase it to 500 and that would be enough for everyone, while only some veterans would even purchase that many slots.

60 is low and it will be very low once Melee rivens are here.

 

 

I just don`t know why you would need 500 rivens I barely need 30