Do people believe Universal Vacuum will encourage players to use pets?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

37 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No offense, but are you autistic by any chance? 

wtf? OPs instructions are easy to follow...Are you dyslexic, illiterate or do you just lack reading comprehension? No offense of coarse..

Edited May 25, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Hypernaut1]

44 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

wtf? OPs instructions are easy to follow...Are you incompetent or illiterate or do you just lack reading comprehension? No offense of coarse..

,.....

Edited May 25, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[TotallyLagging]

I'm just going to ignore the 5 pages altogether because I'm not in the mood to read complete S#&$storm as shown by the few posts above me.

 

But yes, I personally think it will. The number of people I've seen that actually uses pets that isn't for Kuva farming purposes can be counter with your hands. Vacuum may not be necessary but it sure as hell is convenient, and convenience means people get to shoot things and survive instead of running back and forth through loot piles.

That's the keyword - convenience. It's like having a fridge. You don't need it to live but it's kind of annoying without one.

And honestly even with pets having Vacuum I'll still use my sentinels more. Dumb AI is what truly ruined pets for me. Even Kavats who don't actually need on AI to use their buffs tend to get stuck on a locker or something and are stuck running in place, deactivating their buffs in the process.

 

And if I may add It's honestly ridiculous that we can't even discuss this without whipping out the ad hominem right off the bat. This is why feedback threads gets locked and the subject matter gets ignored for years god damnit.

[CoffeeMonster42]

18 hours ago, Ordosan said:

Ya. I love my kavats. I dont see how people think a massive dps buff is "useless" of course it may not have been a massive AI change...but I had once posted on giving kubrows (and now kavats) a form of "pet temperments" so you could basically set an attack style if you will each with there own set of minor buffs.
aggressive pets would be always running ahead of you to attack with a minor boost to attack
defensive pets would be by your side attacking anything that shoots you with a small def boost
relaxed pets would stay by your side and only attack if something is in range and would get a CD boost
curious pets would kinda amble around randomly in corners and such but would probly come with an innate scavenger (that could stack with the mod)

I might rebost that soon since its long enough back that its a locked post.

Those buffs are too unreliable to be useful.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

At MR23 and probably beyond, we face the fact that we don't need to farm resources nearly as often. I'm sitting on 300+ of all rare resources - and even more of the lower tier ones... only ever have to farm for Polymer to support my Team X  Restore Pad habits.

I hardly use sentinels - I use my Sunika for damage, or my Kavat for the status buffs - both are vastly more useful than being to scoop up 40 more alloy plates to go along with the other 3,000,000 I have (yes that's actual, I have 3 million).  Anybody who chooses to use a Sentinel purely for vacuum is intentionally gimping themselves without knowing it.  I got to this rank easily without it, and stockpiled all these resources without it. 

And since I can craft and dish out basically unlimited amounts of team restores, there's no logical reason for me to ever be without Ammo/Health/Energy.  Vaccum is useless unless you're an absolute pleb.

The only time I take out my Sentinel is to collect Polymer so I can craft those pads - which allow me to not use it again for months lol.

I was always opposed to vacuum going on anybody but Carrier - all that change did was cater to scrubs and make it easier for them to "farm" when it was never overly difficult to walk on objects to begin with.  But I guess when people moan enough they get what they want.  

This thread is 100% git gud and l2p.  Also never have issues with my pets getting stuck on the environment - they rip through enemies like nothing and are always at work.

Edited May 25, 2017 by (PS4)lagrue

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

43 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

I'm not in the mood to read complete S#&$storm as shown by the few posts above me.

Srry, but I have vary little patience when it comes to internet bullys that have a superiority complex about being correct and belittled the OP on a stupid first world topic that should never have been an topic to begin with. Especially if Warframes had innate vacuum to begin with. I apologize to the OP.

Edited May 25, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(PSN)robotwars7]

way I see it, Kubrows are the ones worst hit: not as useful as Kavats, not as quirky as Helminth Chargers and not as happy to be ignored as Sentinels. their AI is almost as dumb as the one used on the Sortie Hostage and they can't avoid attacks like Kavats can. we need new Precepts for them, in addition to a buff for the older ones. a base health/armour buff would go a long way too. finally a tweak to their AI to make them a bit more intelligent.

- sincerely, a player who wants to use a Kubrow to actually kill things, not babysit them mid-firefight.

[Larsurus]

My problem with pets is the blatant and unrewarding money sink attributed to their use. Remove the dull and unfulfilling mechanic that is the DNA degradation and I'd gladly take my pets out of their eternal hibernation, vacuum or no vacuum. Ditto with the freezing and unfreezing process, it just isn't necessary and gives nothing to the player.

Replace the moneysinks with something positive instead, like pet boosters that boost their stats and/or skills for X amounts of hours.

[DYSEQTA]

"People" don't use pets because of lack of vacuum?

"People" be dumb then...real dumb.

The only reason to use a sentinels at all is if you haven't managed to get yourself a pet yet or if you need to scan a bunch of stuff without having to do it manually. Vacuum isn't even a part of the thought process.

[Music4Therapy]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Srry, but I have vary little patience when it comes to internet bullys that have a superiority complex about being correct and belittled the OP on a stupid first world topic that should never have been an topic to begin with. Especially if Warframes had innate vacuum to begin with. I apologize to the OP.

No harm done! 

 

5 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

This thread is 100% git gud and l2p.  Also never have issues with my pets getting stuck on the environment - they rip through enemies like nothing and are always at work.

I also primarily use a pet, though there are many people in favor of sentinels and there have been many arguments to support that. Since you are someone that's largely in favor of pets I'm going to play devil's advocate. How often do you run into issues with your pet and does it ever make you consider switching to a sentinel? Is there anything you think can be improved so that everyone can be as thrilled about them as you, or should they be left alone?

[ashrah]

i would use pets much more

[ShadowStalker]

4 hours ago, DYSEQTA said:

"People" don't use pets because of lack of vacuum?

"People" be dumb then...real dumb.

The only reason to use a sentinels at all is if you haven't managed to get yourself a pet yet or if you need to scan a bunch of stuff without having to do it manually. Vacuum isn't even a part of the thought process.

sentinals have way more uses then pets what are you talking about.

[cghawk]

I don't use pets because I want to play warframe not space tamagotchi, as soon as they remove the pointless need for interaction and dna degradation I will use them, until then I won't

[Serbian2G]

Personally the main reason why i avoid kubrows and kavats is the poor AI. Even without a universal vacum, just improving the ai would encourage me to use them more often.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Serbian2G

[Viedra_Lavinova]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:15 PM, Ordosan said:

Ya. I love my kavats. I dont see how people think a massive dps buff is "useless" of course it may not have been a massive AI change...but I had once posted on giving kubrows (and now kavats) a form of "pet temperments" so you could basically set an attack style if you will each with there own set of minor buffs.
aggressive pets would be always running ahead of you to attack with a minor boost to attack
defensive pets would be by your side attacking anything that shoots you with a small def boost
relaxed pets would stay by your side and only attack if something is in range and would get a CD boost
curious pets would kinda amble around randomly in corners and such but would probly come with an innate scavenger (that could stack with the mod)

I might rebost that soon since its long enough back that its a locked post.

I really like that idea. Also, have ways to be able to switch their temperament easily to change playstyles. This is an easy fix to the bad AI problem.

[CoffeeMonster42]

I really don't understand why anybody would argue against vacuum. Is having walk over everything you want pick up fun? How does that add anything at all to the game?

[DYSEQTA]

16 hours ago, ShadowStalker said:

sentinals have way more uses then pets what are you talking about.

Since you asked, here is what I'm taking about. Just 1 example.

Here's a summary of my favourite Kavat

"Squish" as she's called, is effectively a mini-warframe and productive member of the squad.
Health and shields listed based on being paired with my Nova who's health and shields are 740 each.

Stats
Health: 1221
Shields: 814
Armor: 50

Base Damage: 344 Slash
Crit Chance: 86%
Crit Multiplier: 6.4x

Abilities
Reflect - 40% of the time reflects damage back to attacker with 60% amplification
Cat's Eye - Every 20 seconds boosts crit chance of squad members within 25 meters by 60% for 10 seconds
Sharpened Claws - Sunders armor by 120% and amplifies attack damage by 300% (Swipe makes multi-target)
Pounce - Stuns enemy (Swipe makes multi-target)
Swipe - Increase attack range by 2m and increases number of targets hit by 4
Animal Instinct - Loot Radar +30m and Enemy Sense +18m

Mods Used
Bite, Maul, Link Shields, Link Health, Animal Instinct, Reflect, Sharpened Claws, Pounce, Swipe, Cat's Eye

Formas Added
4
VVDD

 

Would you like me to prep a summary of my favourite Kubrow too?

[Sir_Puppington]

Yeah it will, smeeta kavats will be the new carrier/shade.

[Zeclem]

On ‎25‎.‎05‎.‎2017 at 5:45 AM, Arkvold said:

Oooh, he begins with an insult right off the bat, this should be good for a laugh.

Now that that's out of the way, let me tear this post apart point by point.

And yet people still complain about not having enough polymer bundles for the Razorback Armada event.  People complain about not having enough Oxium for the Grattler or Vauban Prime's Chassis.  People complain about the Alloy Plates for the Kavat Incubator Upgrade.  And I constantly see people with "LF Orokin Cell farm" or "LF Neural Sensor farm" on recruiting chat.

read again, "most resources for most ppl". and the fact that the razorback went away extremely fast shows how "lacking" ppl were in resources. 

also majority doesnt even use recruitment chat lol.

Quote

Just because you might not need most of the resources that drops doesn't mean that everyone else is the same way.  Your experience with Warframe is not universal.  Some people out there do, or I wouldn't constantly be seeing these complaints occurring and parties forming.  Maybe, before making blanket statements about segments of the playerbase, you should actually look at the the playerbase first, hmm?  You might not need resources much anymore, I might not need resources much anymore, but the constant glut of credit and resource farms on recruiting chat is indicator enough that you and I are in the minority in that regard.

maybe, just maybe your opinion is solely YOUR experience? just because there were like 3 or so threads complaining about some cost doesnt make it a problem of the playerbase. and thats quite literally what happened in the forums for razorback. 

and for you recruitment chat may be full with those(compared to actual population of the game it really isnt as ive said before), its not full for me at all. only ppl i see there is looking for exp or relic farm majority of the time.

Quote

Mobility is one of the chief reasons to argue in favor of universal vacuum.  This game is fast-paced, and DE has consistently made decisions that have increased the pace of the game (Parkour 2.0, the existence of mobility mods, Volt being a starter Warframe with an ability literally called Speed).  Rather than having to take time to walk over loot, or pass up loot that isn't on your direct path of movement, you can have it all and not have to worry about it.  Instead of grabbing loot and risking falling behind the rest of your team, you can worry about completing objectives, dealing with tactical situations, and keeping up with (or setting the pace for) your team.  Which is a good thing - these are the things you're supposed to be focusing on, not scrabbling for loot!

If it dropped, then you or your team earned the right to have it.  No game should make getting what you've earned a difficulty.

you move in this game, therefore you walk over the loot. which part of this you actually didnt get?

Quote

 

Do the math before you accuse me of lying, chuckles.  Especially when you're lying through your teeth right here.

Carrier Prime with R10 Enhanced Vitality, Calculated Redirection, Metal Fiber = 1280 Health, 375 Shields, 315 Armor
R1 Smeeta Kavat with R10 Link Health, Link Shields, Link Armor w/base R10 Mirage = 446 Health, 324 Shields, 121.5 Armor
R10 Smeeta Kavat with R10 Link Health, Link Shields, Link Armor w/base R10 Mirage = 696 Health, 444 Shields, 121.5 Armor

I could've compared them using an R1 Mirage, but I figured this would be evidence enough.  You want to try and be a pedant with me?  Be right first.

Kavats(and all pets actually), has an efficient self healing, doesnt draw as much fire(pets only draw aggro when theyre far from their owner, same as sentinels. except sentinels eat the aoes you do too), and in kavats case has fairly efficient defensive abilities. but from your entire post i can see you will deny all these as well.

Quote

Furthermore, even in the best-case scenario, where you're pitting a Sahasa or Huras Kubrow alongside something tanky that has maximized durability, there's still one crucial fact that you're forgetting about when it comes to Sentinels.

Sentinels are never shot at deliberately by enemies.  Stray shots can hit a Sentinel.  AoEs can hit a Sentinel, but enemies do not shoot at them deliberately.  So long as you do not face-tank bombard rockets or napalm blasts unnecessarily, or stand in burn patches from Hyekka Masters or go nap in Sapping Osprey fields, your Sentinel will be fine.

Your Kubrow or Kavat, on the other hand, is not only subject to being directly fired upon, but enemies prioritize them just as much as they prioritize you. 

that last line is flat out bull. as ive said before, kavats dont draw any more aggro than sentinels do as long as player isnt in vicinity. when the owner is in vicinity kavats just gets near its owner. if your kavat does enough dmg to take aggro from you that often it should tell you all you need.

Quote

The only point you've made in favor of non-Sentinel durability is the ability to revive Kubrows and Kavats.  But consider this fact - if it's deadly enough out in the field to kill your animal companion, who has more health, shields, and armor than you thanks to the Link mods, it's probably deadly enough to kill you even faster.  Sure, you can revive them, but that means exposing yourself to whatever killed them in the first place, and standing there for up to five seconds to pick them up.

Slap Regen on a Sentinel, and it'll take care of itself for you.  Put Primed Regen on the Sentinel, and it'll even do so up to three times.  Also, sentinels are totally immune to all forms of CC, unlike animal companions that can be knocked down, lit on fire, frozen, or electrocuted just like a player.

......lol. seriously? so that 1/3 revives are gonna be enough when youre getting oneshotted to the hell and back? and if you dont have some sort of healing mechanism your sentinel can even die to @(*()$ chip damage lol.

Quote

Still 25k credits a week that the Sentinel user ain't spending.  Might cost you some money to mod a weapon for your sentinel, but it's something you only ever need to do once per weapon, not an ongoing cost.  Moreover, every credit spent improving your sentinel weaponry just makes your sentinel that much better.  It ain't maintenance if there's improvement going on.

again, 25k is absolutely nothing. its not gonna make you broke. its not gonna destroy your economy. you wont even notice it.

Quote

You're right though, having a separately moddable weapon isn't an advantage.  It's several advantages.

1. You can set up your Sentinel weapon to have non-IPS stats.  This means you can get lovely things like corrosive procs or viral procs from a Sentinel weapon.  Can't do that with an animal companion.
2. You don't have to waste mod slots on your companion itself on mods like Bite and Maul.  You can put them on the weapon instead.  You gonna tell me that freeing up a mod slot on your companion (there would be two, but the other's taken up by the sentinel's targeting mod), and then having eight extra mod slots and up to sixty mod cap devoted entirely to your companion's weapon isn't an advantage?
3. All sentinel weapons are ranged.  Meaning that if you're in cover, your Sentinel doesn't have to expose itself to enemy fire and melee attacks in order to shoot, unless you do.
4. Sentinels can be forced to not attack on any 'frame by unequipping their weapon, or their weapon targeting mod if you're worried about stealth.  Alternatively, put a Hush, Suppress, or Silent Battery mod on their weapon, or if you're using Helios, use Deconstructor - it's already silent because it's a ranged melee attack.  Can't stop animal companions from attacking unless you have a 'frame capable of invisibility.

Again, you've utterly failed to research the facts before you make claims.

1-there is only one sentinel weapon that has a status chance above %5 and is full elemental. and its vulklok. with its fire rate. congratulations you will strip armor far slower than my kavat will with that weapon.

2-yeah well the thing is kavats dont have a mod slot problem at all. thats a non issue. those dont need like 4 mods just to stay alive like sentinels do.

3-if youre in cover, so is your sentinel. it literally floats on top of you. and therefore it wont shoot anything. kavat on the other hand will do some damage without any issues.

4->implying stealth is anywhere a real tactic without a frame that can go invi

   >calls me "uneducated".

without invi on your frame you will be noticed on your first kill. gl with that invi. oh also your kavat doesnt go around ringing alarms and crap if enemies arent alerted by you in the first place. 

Quote

 

I listed some of the perks of sentinels.  I'm also going to scratch out points 2 and 4 because we've already discussed that at length.

Armor removal is good, and the crit bonus is good.  These are important functions that the kavat can do that Sentinels cannot... although a Sentinel could be modded for Corrosive damage to remove armor, and the Helios's Detect Vulnerability mod can create weak points which you can then shoot for hefty damage.  Not quite as effective, arguably, but that's kind asking a Sentinel to be something it isn't.

helios's augment is absolutely nothing. and feel free to post other "strengths" of sentinels. please. im dying to see them. 

oh and no sentinels corrosive proccing will ever be as strong as kavats armor strip on its own. thats simply not gonna happen.

Quote

The kavat's own attacks aren't as great as you make them out to be - your Adarza Kavat deals 80 base slash damage with a 20% crit chance and a 7.5% status chance.  With maxed out Maul and Bite, that's 334 slash damage and an 86.6% crit chance.  You can't mod for status because it's a kavat and there's no animal companion status chance mod, even if you had the mod space to put it in.

i like how you completely glossed over the crit damage kavats get. its 6.4 btw. and its in an aoe. with that damage on that crit stats, its very much better than what sentinels can put out. on top of that adarza gives herself red crits with a %50 uptime on paper but more than %50 uptime on actual gameplay since between waves and stuff exists. yes, red crits. that are like %40 chance to proc. and im not even getting into its squad/owner dps difference.

Quote

Now let's look at Sentinel weaponry.

The Vulklok is 85 electric damage at base, with a 35% crit chance and 25% status chance.  With just a maxed Serration and maxed Split Chamber, that already jumps to 418.4 electric damage, beating the Kavat handily.  Throw on Point Strike and that's 82% critical chance, comparable to the Kavat.  You can further increase that crit chance with corrupt mods, like critical Delay.  And this is just three weapon mods, that cost the Sentinel itself zero mod capacity and mod slots, versus the two being eaten up on your Kavat.

vulklok also has a painfully slow rate of fire, and is not aoe. the dps is by no means comparable, dont kid yourself. 

Quote

I could discuss Deconstructor Prime or Sweeper Prime, but I don't want to belabor my point.

oh please do. or dont. i already know your arguments from these replies. its "i take the stats that support my argument and resist to see the million others that is against it).

vulklok outdpsing kavat. lmao.

Quote

Point being, there's not a lot that animal companions can do that Sentinels can't do as well or better.  The numbers don't lie.

the point here is animal companions do far more than sentinels can even imagine, but since playerbase is extremely lazy and dont do content above lvl 40 they stick to vacuum over everything. the numbers dont lie, and they most definitely dont like you.

and i did not start off with an insult towards you. it was towards your opinions. if i think something is stupid, i'll say it. sorry that you got offended enough to call it an insult.

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Zeclem

[Zeclem]

22 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

At MR23 and probably beyond, we face the fact that we don't need to farm resources nearly as often. I'm sitting on 300+ of all rare resources - and even more of the lower tier ones... only ever have to farm for Polymer to support my Team X  Restore Pad habits.

I hardly use sentinels - I use my Sunika for damage, or my Kavat for the status buffs - both are vastly more useful than being to scoop up 40 more alloy plates to go along with the other 3,000,000 I have (yes that's actual, I have 3 million).  Anybody who chooses to use a Sentinel purely for vacuum is intentionally gimping themselves without knowing it.  I got to this rank easily without it, and stockpiled all these resources without it. 

And since I can craft and dish out basically unlimited amounts of team restores, there's no logical reason for me to ever be without Ammo/Health/Energy.  Vaccum is useless unless you're an absolute pleb.

The only time I take out my Sentinel is to collect Polymer so I can craft those pads - which allow me to not use it again for months lol.

I was always opposed to vacuum going on anybody but Carrier - all that change did was cater to scrubs and make it easier for them to "farm" when it was never overly difficult to walk on objects to begin with.  But I guess when people moan enough they get what they want.  

This thread is 100% git gud and l2p.  Also never have issues with my pets getting stuck on the environment - they rip through enemies like nothing and are always at work.

THANK YOU.

[IggySnow]

pet commands have been suggested a lot. Sheldon even stated a LOOOONG time ago he wanted to implement pet commands. unfortunately like many needed features it seems to have been pushed under the rug for the foreseeable future.

[An8rchy]

As this is only my mere opinion dont trash it. I still have my Kavat, no kubrow, but a hellmith charger, use kavat only for kuva farming for the buffs when i get it, and Hellmith when i just dont need any resorces to where i am going or dont care for missing them

This is why 95% of the time use sentinels and wish DE to look at

-Companions still arent as tanky as Sentinels 
-Companions dont has as much utility as Sentinels (Sorry but RANDOM kavat buffs are UNRELAIABLE to be counted, u cant use them when you want them they have to be passive to be fully useful)
-Poor A.I
-Credit Sink
-Unable to engage in ranged fights
-Can't retrive impossible to reach items (off the map mods/under something that the frame cant reach [Note: only 1 companion can bring items and its not ranged pick up])
-Useless around lvl 100 and up since as squishy, they get downed more times than help you
-SweeperP and DeconstroctorP end up being a better weapon than companion attacks.
-The fact that i can do everything better than a companion with a weapon and a frame is bad. Companions are meant to be a support for the frame, and not to be a small version of a frame. (Elaboring on this point, Shade gives stealth, helios scans and pins points for extra dmg, Carrier Has ammo mutation EVEN Kavats have more utility than kubrows [Yes Kubrows dont have a set support as kavats or sentinels])
 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, An8rchy said:

As this is only my mere opinion dont trash it. I still have my Kavat, no kubrow, but a hellmith charger, use kavat only for kuva farming for the buffs when i get it, and Hellmith when i just dont need any resorces to where i am going or dont care for missing them

This is why 95% of the time use sentinels and wish DE to look at

-Companions still arent as tanky as Sentinels 
-Companions dont has as much utility as Sentinels (Sorry but RANDOM kavat buffs are UNRELAIABLE to be counted, u cant use them when you want them they have to be passive to be fully useful)
-Poor A.I
-Credit Sink
-Unable to engage in ranged fights
-Can't retrive impossible to reach items (off the map mods/under something that the frame cant reach [Note: only 1 companion can bring items and its not ranged pick up])
-Useless around lvl 100 and up since as squishy, they get downed more times than help you
-SweeperP and DeconstroctorP end up being a better weapon than companion attacks.
-The fact that i can do everything better than a companion with a weapon and a frame is bad. Companions are meant to be a support for the frame, and not to be a small version of a frame. (Elaboring on this point, Shade gives stealth, helios scans and pins points for extra dmg, Carrier Has ammo mutation EVEN Kavats have more utility than kubrows [Yes Kubrows dont have a set support as kavats or sentinels])
 

-Also companions don't do anything to bosses 

-And sentinels with prime regen (sentinels can revive them selves) and sacrifice can revive you upto 16x in a single mission. 

-The utility of vacuum is just the icing on the cake.

Sentinels utilities is far superior than any sort of damage a Kubrow can do. 

FACT: PETS WILL SEE MORE USE IF THEY HAVE VACUUM. Broken AI or not.  Shouldn't really be a debate. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[svegurok]

Several reasons why i don't use pets.

1) no vacuum

2) dna degradation

3) mods that increase health, shields, ... from base of your frame instead of pet itself

 

Solutions:

1) universal vacuum based on warframe (even smaller radius would be ok like 6-8m)

2) just get rid of it

3) pets have higher base health, armor, shield and mods are reworked to be like ones on warframe

[Tyrian3k]

On 25.5.2017 at 2:55 PM, (PS4)lagrue said:

when it was never overly difficult to walk on objects to begin with.

You've never played warframe with a bad ping, have you? Standing on every single drop for a few seconds is so much fun, gotta tell you.

If you don't want to use vacuum, don't, but let the rest of the playerbase be "plebs" as you say.