Why force people to play in Fortress just for a new Stance?

[Skaleek]

Gotta say, finding caches in the kuva fortress is really time consuming and cumbersome, all the tiles are f'in huge.

[DoomFruit]

I'm with the OP here. A stance that I'll never use (because quick melee is so much better) for a weapon category which is universally complete arse in a tileset which is @(*()$ HORRIBLE. I'm not even bothering with this one.

DE: you know why people don't go to certain planets? Because the tilesets are horrible. Nobody likes Europa because you keep getting stuck on stupid sticky-out bits of level geometry (and those pointless ice barrels, but that's another matter entirely). Nobody likes Eris for the same reason and also, for some tiles, getting turned around and lost. And nobody likes the kuva fortress because you get stuck on both annoying level geometry and lost in twisty counterintuitive passages.

And then, because people weren't playing around in these incredibly annoying areas much, you went and infected other planets with the Europa tileset (bad), infected all Corpus areas with those @(*()$ ice barrels (VERY VERY BAD) and now stuck one crappy mod in the kuva fortress tileset (this ranks a solid "meh" from me - I don't care about the mod, and I'm not going back to that horrible tileset unless I absolutely have to).

Perhaps, instead of using a tiny little carrot to wave us towards a particular patch of road (this new stance), or repaving all the other roads with jagged glass (ice barrels, europa tileset), you could perhaps stop using the stick on us with regards to the other roads. If the tilesets weren't so annoying to actually be in, perhaps I'd be there more often.

[Fallen_Echo]

10 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

I'm with the OP here. A stance that I'll never use (because quick melee is so much better) for a weapon category which is universally complete arse in a tileset which is @(*()$ HORRIBLE. I'm not even bothering with this one.

DE: you know why people don't go to certain planets? Because the tilesets are horrible. Nobody likes Europa because you keep getting stuck on stupid sticky-out bits of level geometry (and those pointless ice barrels, but that's another matter entirely). Nobody likes Eris for the same reason and also, for some tiles, getting turned around and lost. And nobody likes the kuva fortress because you get stuck on both annoying level geometry and lost in twisty counterintuitive passages.

And then, because people weren't playing around in these incredibly annoying areas much, you went and infected other planets with the Europa tileset (bad), infected all Corpus areas with those @(*()$ ice barrels (VERY VERY BAD) and now stuck one crappy mod in the kuva fortress tileset (this ranks a solid "meh" from me - I don't care about the mod, and I'm not going back to that horrible tileset unless I absolutely have to).

Perhaps, instead of using a tiny little carrot to wave us towards a particular patch of road (this new stance), or repaving all the other roads with jagged glass (ice barrels, europa tileset), you could perhaps stop using the stick on us with regards to the other roads. If the tilesets weren't so annoying to actually be in, perhaps I'd be there more often.

The whole kuva fortress would be a great area for hunting hidden treassure, getting into the private armory of the queens and soo on but in reality its just a hazardous big grineer map.

[Rawbeard]

19 hours ago, Multicom-EN- said:

Nobody plays Fortress

and here you have the reason why the stance is there.

[RoseeGamer]

So iv been farming this since it came out at the time of writing this i am on my 60th run for it and i still havnt found it.

Update: im currently on run 81 with no luck in finding it, i would like to add my friend got his on his 2nd run 

Edited May 25, 2017 by RoseeGamer
update

[SenorClipClop]

By "force", OP, do you mean "give incentive"?

[Buzkyl]

16 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Kuva endless.

Boom. Everyone is satisfied. It really isn't hard. Or at the VERY least, buff machetes so you at LEAST have an incentive to get that stance.

While you, let's be real

Do you geninely think DE would give endless kuva and not more alternate ways to get Kuva like Kuva spy/sabotage or do something outlandish like AW Kuva farming. I'm certain DE is trying to push people away from endless farming, While i personally want it, just don't see DE doing it.

[OvisCaedo]

I think it's kind of the opposite problem. This is a terrible way of trying to get people TO play on Kuva Fortress. A stance for an immensely unpopular weapon type, only available on one type of the planet's missions, that nobody would really need a second copy of even if they were willing to get it the first time?

I suppose if it's rare enough, people could feasibly want to farm more to sell it, but... I have a hard time seeing it as being a booming market opportunity.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

You dont have to farm it or play a machete eihter

[Mousarchy]

On 5/24/2017 at 4:36 PM, Jobistober said:

Obviously DE can't make everyone happy.

this will never be NOT true...remeber there was a guy complaining on the forums because the supra V could be colored and he was REALLY upset about it.

but ya. they are slowly adding things to KF...id rather have one or two items/mods/drops/ 'reasons' to go to KF at all than just NEVER touching the thing for years to come before something new gets added in that changes everything we know about KF.

[DecadeX]

My problem isn't going to the fortress. That's fine you shouldn't have everything in the same place. My problem is the low drop rate. The cache table is crowded with rare resources, endo, and credits. There is literally nothing else worthwhile in the caches aside from the stance. Especially the rare resources that I could have gotten a hundred of for the same investment of effort elsewhere. That's not a reward it's a punishment and unfortunately that's what the fortress cache drop tables are full of.

[Sekrev]

5 hours ago, RoseeGamer said:

So iv been farming this since it came out at the time of writing this i am on my 60th run for it and i still havnt found it.

Update: im currently on run 81 with no luck in finding it, i would like to add my friend got his on his 2nd run 

Well, that's RNG for you. Try smearing those 81 runs out over more days for a more enjoyable gaming experience and doing other stuff you enjoy as well. It's not like having this stance RIGHT NOW will make or break anything.

[RoseeGamer]

8 minutes ago, Sekrev said:

Well, that's RNG for you. Try smearing those 81 runs out over more days for a more enjoyable gaming experience and doing other stuff you enjoy as well. It's not like having this stance RIGHT NOW will make or break anything.

yea let me rewind time to spread those 81 runs out because i want to wait to get new content its what im gonna do with oberon, wait till everyones got it before starting to farm

[Sekrev]

8 minutes ago, RoseeGamer said:

yea let me rewind time to spread those 81 runs out because i want to wait to get new content its what im gonna do with oberon, wait till everyones got it before starting to farm

It's been *one* day. The majority does not have the stance. And if you choose to farm Oberon or whatever content nonstop when it comes out sure be my guest, if you've decided you're missing out by not having everything the instant it comes out.. that's your choice. Don't go all hyperbole and pretend everyone will already have it if you farm a bit more moderately, that's bs.

Also I do agree that the chance is too low, and some farming is really to RNG heavy to be enjoyable. But really you don't have to nonstop farm stuff to acquire it in a decent timeframe, that's purely on you. It sucks to do 80+ runs, but it sucks less to not do it all in one go.

[IceColdHawk]

9 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

While you, let's be real

Do you geninely think DE would give endless kuva and not more alternate ways to get Kuva like Kuva spy/sabotage or do something outlandish like AW Kuva farming. I'm certain DE is trying to push people away from endless farming, While i personally want it, just don't see DE doing it.

I won't give up demanding it just like sortie tokens. Even if it takes us years just like with the nullifier changes.

I see no good reason not to give us endless kuva farming. It's still farm, just less repetitive and with finally a chance to push your riven-boosted gear to their limits while also finally getting rewarded for once (endgame).

This pessimistic "Do you rly believe DE would do this?" makes no sense to me. At least when they really don't do it, i can say i fought for it. If we don't give them feedback because well, why would they do that anyway, we might not even post at all anymore. Oh and trust me, i'm not the most optimistic person, but i'm trying at least.

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

I think it's kind of the opposite problem. This is a terrible way of trying to get people TO play on Kuva Fortress. A stance for an immensely unpopular weapon type, only available on one type of the planet's missions, that nobody would really need a second copy of even if they were willing to get it the first time?

I suppose if it's rare enough, people could feasibly want to farm more to sell it, but... I have a hard time seeing it as being a booming market opportunity.

Sorry for the shameless self promoting:

So a few days ago i realized that we dont have any base stat mods to really further build variety. In 10 minutes i wrote this thread and suggested 14 new mods with inverted stats of other mods and some other ideas only involving the base stats.

IF DE would add in these mods to the fortress i bet people would happily  go around that map to get 'em.

[Buzkyl]

3 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

I won't give up demanding it just like sortie tokens. Even if it takes us years just like with the nullifier changes.

I see no good reason not to give us endless kuva farming. It's still farm, just less repetitive and with finally a chance to push your riven-boosted gear to their limits while also finally getting rewarded for once (endgame).

This pessimistic "Do you rly believe DE would do this?" makes no sense to me. At least when they really don't do it, i can say i fought for it. If we don't give them feedback because well, why would they do that anyway, we might not even post at all anymore. Oh and trust me, i'm not the most optimistic person, but i'm trying at least.

There needs to be more variety in Kuva farming, however if you put endless Kuva Farming i'm fairly confident that most players will gravitate towards that option for very easy reasons

1. Less loading times to deal with
2. Less potential objectives to deal with. No one enjoys 100 Lech Kril assassination just because it happens to be a Kuva flood.
3.  On a meta level, the WF base just has a massive fixation on endless content. Rightfully so, they are the only content

DE has already said they're content with the current method of Kuva farming which is okay but is extremely repetitive in the long term, there has to be greater variety however while i do want endless Kuva farming i am skeptical it is the wisest of methods when DE can still produce none endless Kuva farming missions.

• Raiding Kuva Vaults in the fortress
• Pursuing Kuva transportation ships in AW
• Kuva stars for statues

 

All are possible methods without resorting to endless missions. Endless missions are not a viable choice for endgame because there is no end to them, they go onto infinity. WF desperately needs better designed enemies are scaling our current set to infinity isn't a way to do so in my opinion.

[P0Pz]

On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Buzkyl said:

The Kuva Fortress is a good map but there's barely any reason to go there

DE: Puts new item in Kuva Fortress

Why is DE forcing us to go to this place

People will never be satisfied.

You are right at your POV. Its true. Players ask for x. And players got something X like.

The point you miss is, once you get the stance (considering machets are wAF and like noone use it), bc players collect to have it all...

What reason would be to keep on joining a fortress knot? Nice visual tilesets can not stop boringness resulting by sensless playing it.

---

So what did "i" my person expected to get there?

I was hoping for something like in void. Void tileset looks is amazing.  But i do no void runs bc of the visuals. The visuals supports my gameplay and generats atmosphere. But not gameplaywise. The reason i do void runs solo/clan/pupi is...it "can" reward me/us by "exploring & finding hidden treasure rooms. 

Why not in kuva fortress have "kuva treasure rooms" where some containers "can" reward your time with rar Mods. Mods not 1 mod. And maybe ofc kuva?!

- Or why not find a hidden gate, that ports you into the Fortress dungoun. A dangerouse dark place...with endless spawning kuva targets? They never leave theire spot, if you run through the room they case you a bit and then return to theire spot? Between those rooms are hallways...there are patrols walking up and down. Tons of rooms. Some mini bosses like 3. And a fortress main boss..deep..deep inside...

How much fun would that be?

Rewarding/Skill based/a lot to find and drop/maybe a shild at the first room showing the top10 times beaten the main boss?! Idk

....

Sooo many ways to make something usefull/enjoyable to go play it. 

But 1 mod..isnt the big deal changing the point to play other tilesets instead...its boring and 1 mod does not change it realy buddy.

Edited May 26, 2017 by P0Pz

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

There needs to be more variety in Kuva farming, however if you put endless Kuva Farming i'm fairly confident that most players will gravitate towards that option for very easy reasons

1. Less loading times to deal with
2. Less potential objectives to deal with. No one enjoys 100 Lech Kril assassination just because it happens to be a Kuva flood.
3.  On a meta level, the WF base just has a massive fixation on endless content. Rightfully so, they are the only content

What's the problem with that? Is a game not supposed to be fun? I know you want it too just like i do but the way you explain it to me sounds as if DE doesn't want their game to be fun. We, the community need to help them to see what'd be an awesome addition or change.

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

All are possible methods without resorting to endless missions.

The things you mentioned would just add to the problem instead of fixing it. Archwing for kuva? Fufufufu...

Anyway man, don't let your head loose already. We won't give up just yet!

Edited May 26, 2017 by IceColdHawk

[Reifnir]

My main gripe with Kuva Fortress is that is has been designed to look cool on screenshots, completely omitting the "cool to play" part.

It has some of the most annoying mechanics ever added to Warframe - indestructible security cameras, turrets, screeching alarms, the list goes on.

It's also a royal pain to navigate - and while it does make perfect sense for a super-secret asteroid base to be a maze of corridors riddled with maintenance hatches in odd places, it still doesn't change the fact that moving around in this tileset is like participating in a three-legged race across a particularly messy scrapyard. Which is also a minefield. And there are rabid dogs after you. 

Mind you, Kuva Fortress isn't the only location which manages to have a good visual design and be a horrid place to move around in. It's almost as if after the initial locations were done (side note: I simply love the Orokin Towers!) DE fired their level designer and replaced him with an snickering Igor straight from a Dracula/Frankenstein movie, who has but one purpose - to make the locations as convoluted and painful to navigate as possible.

Orokin Derelict, Eris, Europa, most of Uranus, broken parts of Lua, and, ofc, Kuva Fortress - very authentic looking, but I'd rather never set foot in there unless forced. I enjoy the parkour, the speed and ease of movement Warframe has, and I don't enjoy bumping my head against every single pipe, half-open hatch, bent beam, torn bulkhead or oddly shaped blob of  infested goo on every single step. Not in the slightest.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Reifnir

[Ditto132]

On 2017-5-25 at 5:35 AM, Xephalone said:

you know... "why there is no kuva in kuva fortress?" - Devstream #92

Weird... just like "why there is no chocolate in chocolate factory?"

On 2017-5-25 at 5:39 AM, LSG501 said:

No but when people are saying they want a reason to go to the kuva fortress it wasn't to go hunt for a singular stance.... it's basically DE 'fulfilling the request' with the least amount of effort necessary on their part.

On 2017-5-25 at 5:46 AM, LSG501 said:

Quick suggestions that have been put forward along with the obvious kuva...

riven mods, nitain, increase the drop of resources from the enemies, increase credit rewards, remove all the common drops from the drop table.  Make the odds of certain things higher so they drop easier, share xp with archwing items if they're equipped (even if not used anywhere like on parts of uranus)

Plenty of things can be done that aren't basically stick one thing in there that people will do until they've got it then move on again. 

DE should make Kuva Fortress for long time players, who already got most times. Make Kuva Fortress contain "veteran" items, remove "new" players items.
Veterans don't really need Salvage, or resources that they deemed as trashes.
Change the Kuva Fortress enemies to drop Kuva instead of Endo.
Remove mods such as Ammo Drum and Vitality that the veterans have plenty of, out of the drop table.

Make Kuva Fortress cater to veterans.
I mean in other games where there are some form of progression, do you see lot of veterans going back to old maps that they played on when starting out?
In Warframe, do veterans really go back to Mercury, Mars or Venus to play? Other than wanting something that exclusively drop from there?

 

21 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Gotta say, finding caches in the kuva fortress is really time consuming and cumbersome, all the tiles are f'in huge.

Reminded me of Hive Caches... I will just skip this stance.

 

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

 On a meta level, the WF base just has a massive fixation on endless content. Rightfully so, they are the only content

That is because there is no real "Endgame" contents, veterans just got to artificially create our own "Endgame" contents.
An "Endgame" content that is challenges the player, and still allow us to play and have fun with our frames and weapons that we invested so much time and effort into.
And since it is artificial, the extrinsic rewards are rather crappy and does not scale, while the intrinsic rewards require long play time to reach...

 

12 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

The things you mentioned would just add to the problem instead of fixing it. Archwing for kuva? Fufufufu...

I don't mind if the ArchWing is as awesome as playing Strike Suit Zero.

Bundling contents like this, only resulted in players getting salty and generate false data.
Oh see our data, players really enjoyed ArchWing, they played so much... when all the players wanted is the Kuva.

What are the chances that players would be purchasing Oberon Prime Access, mostly just for the Sybaris Prime?

[CoffeeMonster42]

23 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

 

Orokin Derelict, Eris, Europa, most of Uranus, broken parts of Lua, and, ofc, Kuva Fortress - very authentic looking, but I'd rather never set foot in there unless forced. I enjoy the parkour, the speed and ease of movement Warframe has, and I don't enjoy bumping my head against every single pipe, half-open hatch, bent beam, torn bulkhead or oddly shaped blob of  infested goo on every single step. Not in the slightest.

+9999999999

[LSG501]

18 minutes ago, Ditto132 said:

I mean in other games where there are some form of progression, do you see lot of veterans going back to old maps that they played on when starting out?

In Warframe, do veterans really go back to Mercury, Mars or Venus to play? Other than wanting something that exclusively drop from there?

It starts well before being a veteran lol.... I keep saying about the lack of a reason to go lower level maps for high MR players every time the earth rework is mentioned... while I'm sure it will look great it's not exactly going to be seen very often by high level players because lets be honest even without any mods earth is easy for anyone who's been here a while.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

lol I cringe every time i see this 'why does DE force us'. 

You are forced to nothing, this a video game, a f2p mmo with rpg element while we're at it, suck it up.

Edited May 26, 2017 by (PS4)cdzbrbr

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

They not forcing you to do anything.