250,000 Kuva and all bad rolls.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 hours ago, TenGaugeBoson said:

Double resource weekend+ resource booster= What kuva should actually pay out.

Farmed a quarter million Kuva + Neglected family + got a quarter million worth of bad rolls=I might be done with this game.

Where is the fun in this? I am just not seeing it. To say it is disheartening does not do justice to the shafting I feel right now.

I loved this game before rivens, well before kuva to be specific.

Now it's like that girlfriend that gained weight ,is always nagging you and trying to get  you to stop smoking weed and playing guitar with your friends.

I am starting to wonder Warframe....is this really worth it?

You just aren't fun anymore...? is it me? maybe it's me..

250,000 kuva and I think I kept the same stats I started with.

 

Actually...it's (as in Riven rolls) like the really friendly, hot "it" girl at the party that makes you think you've got a shot at your dreams coming true so you fully invest and stay late...only to watch her leave at 2:00 AM with some shm😝ck you are certain is less deserving than you on your worst day.

 

Appreciate the girl you've got. (Warframe sans God-Roll-Rivens).

Edited May 27, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[TotallyLagging]

Hope you enjoy our very own gacha system

 

I went through 180k Kuva (50+ rerolls) before I got an acceptable Ferrox stats

[Slaviar]

Rivens are a joke. A system which had potential but turned out to be the worst slot machine in Warframe.

Why negative damage and multishot are even a thing? These two stats are main damage buffers, especially on underpowered weapon. It's a joke that you can get -dmg on a Lato riven. Seriously, riven for Lato, one of the weakest, if not the weakest weapon in game, can have negative dmg. Even more of a joke considering all Lato stats are very low so pure dmg is only option.

And so a guy doing what rivens were supposedly meant to do, buffing underpowerrd and unused weapons, can end up with something which makes already weak weapon even weaker. Yeah, helping weak weapons. Nice joke.

The amount of rng involved in creation of riven is just absurd. First you must get riven which is not as easy as its status as common reward would suggest. Then pray it's for weapon you like and finally pray for good stats. Because you may as well end up with mod which makes Ammo Drum look tempting.

Seriously, I don't expect my every roll to be +dmg +multishot +elemental -flight speed. But having Karak riven with negative status or multishot or +flight speed is poor joke.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Slaviar

[MystMan]

The definition of good and bad Kuva rolls is kinda muddy. Negative damage and multishot is obviously bad. But some people exaggerate by having unrealistic expectations.

250k of bad rolls? I'm not buying it.  Sounds more like a "if it ain't God Riven, it's a bad roll" super high standard.
I have a damage+multishot Synapse and somebody told me "not bad but not good either".  Say what?  Just because it's a red-crit capable weapon doesn't mean it MUST be a God riven crit chance + crit damage to be considered good. If the overall performance of the weapon is positive, it's a good Riven.

[Hypernaut1]

5 hours ago, MystMan said:

The definition of good and bad Kuva rolls is kinda muddy. Negative damage and multishot is obviously bad. But some people exaggerate by having unrealistic expectations.

250k of bad rolls? I'm not buying it.  Sounds more like a "if it ain't God Riven, it's a bad roll" super high standard.
I have a damage+multishot Synapse and somebody told me "not bad but not good either".  Say what?  Just because it's a red-crit capable weapon doesn't mean it MUST be a God riven crit chance + crit damage to be considered good. If the overall performance of the weapon is positive, it's a good Riven.

Exactly. A buff is a buff. I usually get a buff within 10-20 rolls at the most. 

Then after that, since we don't have to keep new stats, I'll roll every now and then trying to get lucky.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Avynire]

I got 2decent sybaris riven after 1 rolled 50s times got cc dmg-stat dura

2nd cc multishot after 40s roll.

 

Ps dont neglect ur family.

[Ryko]

And?

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

It's a bad grind. You grind Kuva for ridiculously small amounts without boosters. The process itself is boring and became stale about the third of fourth time you had to do it. You then purchase your lotto ticket and hope the perfect roll doesn't have everything you want plus a large - Damage or -Multishot to render the mod useless. It's a very unhealthy system and I almost checked out of the game until I pulled back and tried to ignore it. It is also further complicated by the riven disposition that can be changed so imagine all that work going down the drain when they decide to change it when already the disposition doesn't make much sense. All it is is a blatant cash grab and it is introducing a layer of burnout that is inevitable.

[Mudfam]

I keep seeing these posts that say "I got something great after x rolls", as if that proves something. The entire point is that it's a stupid random slot machine. You're a lucky winner, and there's lots of people who are eternally unlucky.

Then there's the other great argument "you're obviously being too picky". No, people are just being very unlucky because the system allows it. No one can deny that most rolls are utter garbage, and some people get "most rolls" ad infinitum.

Some weapons do require very specific buffs, because their base stats don't support others. This narrows your odds of a good riven exponentially. Some weapons also absolutely need a damage buff, and perhaps your entire motivation for using a riven is to buff a specific stat in a way that you can't do with conventional modding (and I'm talking QoL here).

There's nothing you can say to support the current state of rivens. It's just extreme RNG spam that is not even remotely fair on different playes and different weapons.

The solution is obvious. Set some long term goals you can work towards, but with limitations and with a significant effort involved. You can still try your dumb luck, but if you're willing to put the time and effort in you can gradually work towards something rather than be faced with the possibility that you worked your arse off for months and got nothing.

[dEjAvU5566]

well for most of japanese mobile game, they think of many ways

to guarantee certain rewards in those devious getcha system

(all involved investing money for sure, but you'll get what you want instead of pure RNG over and over)

 

current state of riven attribute slot machine is just an immature system and need to take further care of

or those unlucky people will just stay in the miserable loop of RNG slot machine and quit after a while

 

 

[HammerofDusk]

First, you must grind through Sortie missions at the small chance of getting a Riven, then you must do a small challenge to unveil the Riven, if it's good then yay... If it's not? You must grind Kuva missions, re-roll until it's good, you may end up with few re-rolls, or you may end up with many and a truck load of Kuva wasted. Personally I've started going more towards casual play as things more grind intensive start coming out. I feel you unlucky players, I wasted a ton of Kuva on a Riven that I ended up giving up on because of the time sink, and unlikeliness of actually getting a good roll. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by HammerofDusk

[(PSN)robotwars7]

yeah, I can never get decent rolls either, bad enough I CBA to farm any more Kuva but on the occasions I roll I either get garbage or get one that appears good, but then I read the bottom line and see something like "-87% Multishot", and I'm just like

we desperately need a less tedious method of obtaining Kuva, since there's nothing we can do about RNG. if you can't rig the machine, get ALL the coins to put in that mother until it lets you win.

[Madway7]

21 hours ago, Trichouette said:

You really have that much time to lose ?

 

I actually had 84k Kuva when I posted that, I was lucky, day one of the double resource weekend someone helped me while the bug was going on, they were skilled enough to usually be in their warframe before the siphon was destroyed and get all the kuva by themselves.

They also gifted me a 3 day resource booster.

I spent all the kuva yesterday and overall I'm pretty satisfied with the results. +damage, multishot and punchthrough on a Supra riven (with -status chance, but without any dual status mods it gets to 50.3 status chance with the multishot and syndicate mod)

A good Harpak riven, +crit chance on a Zarr riven (no negatives and no other noteworthy stats), an ok Azima riven (but has -magazine cap), a good Phage riven, a better Glaxion riven (which regardless I still may not use), a better pandero riven that I'm going to try to sell (+damage, toxin and reload speed, but -zoom).

This still doesn't change my opinion on the riven system overall, getting terrible or useless stats like punchthrough with +zoom for an Ogris riven should not be possible (and fyi the stats were only +punchthrough and +zoom), if the point is to help out weaker weapons then I think everything should be done to favour better and compatible stats on weapons with higher dispositions or just let us be able to lock in stats already

[TenGaugeBoson]

A solution , of many solutions would be to just let rivens have "feed-able stats" So when you farmed kuva you could but x amount into damage and x amount into multishot.

Then there would be actual reward for effort with the sense of forward progression. There would have to be caps or stats obviously. This would be a far better system than the one that exists. Well it would be better for players of the game.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

17 hours ago, MystMan said:

The definition of good and bad Kuva rolls is kinda muddy. Negative damage and multishot is obviously bad. But some people exaggerate by having unrealistic expectations.

250k of bad rolls? I'm not buying it.  Sounds more like a "if it ain't God Riven, it's a bad roll" super high standard.
I have a damage+multishot Synapse and somebody told me "not bad but not good either".  Say what?  Just because it's a red-crit capable weapon doesn't mean it MUST be a God riven crit chance + crit damage to be considered good. If the overall performance of the weapon is positive, it's a good Riven.

+1^

Rule of thumb:. Never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

And why is no one pointing out that you can always keep the best riven you've rolled and discard inferior rolls?

Yeah, I call BS on 250k yielding "zero" results.  You can't NOT increase Riven quality with 250k Kuva doing this...

 

[WingsOfGryphin]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:54 AM, (PS4)theelix said:

It's just you. 

Just because you roll the dice until your hands bleed doesn't mean you deserve even one good roll. 

If i could downvote , then i would downvote you back to year 2013. 
I joined back in Warframe sometime in december after taking like nearly 1 year break ( i was totally drained with warframe, i think i was max MR at that time and literary played 1h survivals out of boredom) 
Rivens got me pumped, i started theory-crafting , coming up with my own builds and potentially broken builds. I was feeling the most excited about warframe then i have been ever since 2014. After farming kuva for entire winter break and stockpiling like 300k kuva or something i started to whine to everyone how i have so much kuva but only 1 riven mod that i didn't wish to roll ( i like to roll a lot of rivens that people consider as garbage, so it probably was sentinel riven mod, but i don't really recall) . So that's one issue with rivens - no way to self sufficiently farm them.

After a while i decided to sell my 5 ember's that i had piled up from old times which got me enough plat to start buying unrolled rivens and start rolling them. After draining all the 300k kuva and not getting satisfactory results ( i was tryhard Diablo 3 player that minmaxed gear for that 0.5% crit chance on each possible slot, I DON'T SETTLE FOR MEDIACORE!) i felt little bit depressed but decided to push farming Kuva again - it was harder to do so. I could only manage to pile 50k then 30k after a while i noticed that i am wasting 100's  hours on kuva and not getting anything out of it.  I felt depressed... i felt more depressed than i ever have in Warframe or Diablo 3 or any "grindy" mmo for that matter. I have no-lifed D3 to the point of having bloodshots eyes but i simply felt stressed a bit. Warframe kuva on the other hand almost made me quit the game for good. I can't emphasize how strong of  depressive feeling you get after burning though such megaton of Kuva. YOU GET NOTHING out of it. No paragon points, no accumulated consolation prize NO NOTHING. YOU SIMPLY BURN THROUGH THE KUVA AND FARMED HOURS ALONG WITH IT. 

And why would anyone do that? It's simple... there are many warframe veterans that come back to game AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN because this game is that unique. But even with all the good amount updates the players outrun the game. Rivens is the closest we ever got to endgame content. AND THEY ARE THAT TEMPTING.

Edited May 28, 2017 by WingsOfGryphin

[Chipputer]

On 5/27/2017 at 6:02 AM, Nirrel said:

We all know how RNG in THIS game works. But it's wrong and I don't see why people should "suck it up".

You've not played many games if you think RNG is bad in this game. One system. One. Single. System that is entirely RNG and people lose their crap over it instead of just ignoring it because they just have to get those higher numbers and can't settle for, "good enough," but aren't prepared for the effort and luck it takes to get those higher numbers.

Yes. You should suck it up. All of you should. Deal with it or ignore it. Those are your two options.

[Gremlin]

Well, I got my ideal buzlok riven in 2 rolls. My zhuges at 64 without anything I've liked. It happens. Doesn't mean it's a bad system. There's also trading to get certain mods you like too. Try that out if you're struggling.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

The other thing is there are some choices you're forced to make that are really impossible without slapping the mod on a weapon and actually trying it. You could probably tolerate that negative fire rate if you could actually see how the weapon operates with it but because you can't, you'll never know. Hell, you might even enjoy how it turns the weapon into something completely different but again, the experimentation is taken out of the equation.

[Nirrel]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

You've not played many games if you think RNG is bad in this game. One system. One. Single. System that is entirely RNG and people lose their crap over it instead of just ignoring it because they just have to get those higher numbers and can't settle for, "good enough," but aren't prepared for the effort and luck it takes to get those higher numbers.

Yes. You should suck it up. All of you should. Deal with it or ignore it. Those are your two options.

Lol, who cares how other games do it? How is that of any importance? We are on warframe forums and discussing a certain mechanic based on uncontrolled RNG in this game. Even if every single game in the world would do the same or worst still cannot see why warframe cannot do better.  Instead of suck it up why not work towards a fairer and more satisfying system pointing out the fault in it and find a solution. Going around to tell ppl "just suck it up" it isn't in any way constructing just plain offensive and certainly does not help the game.

 

 

[Mudfam]

30 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

You've not played many games if you think RNG is bad in this game. One system. One. Single. System that is entirely RNG and people lose their crap over it instead of just ignoring it because they just have to get those higher numbers and can't settle for, "good enough," but aren't prepared for the effort and luck it takes to get those higher numbers.

Yes. You should suck it up. All of you should. Deal with it or ignore it. Those are your two options.

What game did you play..?!?

I've played a lot of MMOs including ones from Korea that have a terrible reputation for being gambling based Pay2Win games. Nothing I've ever seen comes remotely close to what we have with rivens in Warframe.

In other games you have some control over what you're doing, you randomise specific things, you're always working towards a clear goal with clearly stated odds and foward progression. They are manageable quantifiable systems, you have a pretty good idea of what you can expect to get from a given investment.

Rivens are just complete RNG spam, a potential endless loop of failure with no control and no inherent balance. The odds of getting an actually good roll for certain weapons are completely stupidly low. You don't have to be a genius to see that you could easily spend the next thousand years farming kuva and never make that weapon worth using over another. Mindless RNG with low odds is a terrible, terrible combination.

And this is why we can argue about this endlessly and no one even knows what they're talking about. The odds are so stupid that people can't even figure out what they are, or put any sensible or consistent pricing on rivens.

One guy on Reddit tried. He came up with something like 6000 years of farming kuva for a 90% probability of a specific roll. Sure, that's for a specific roll, but many weapons require fairly specific rolls, and the odds don't get all that much better.

[Slaviar]

46 minutes ago, Ker-Blammo said:

There's also trading to get certain mods you like too. Try that out if you're struggling.

Yes, I will definitely pay hundreds if not thousand of plats for more freedom of modding and dmg boost on my Boar.

[Hypernaut1]

Honestly, im glad that it isn't easy to turn every single Riven into a +multi-shot, +damage, +crit damage mod. 

It wouldn't make any sense

[Mudfam]

If we're talking solutions, I proposed one a while ago and I still stand by it.

What is most frequently suggested is that you are able to lock stats. This makes a lot of sense, it allows us to make and experiment with various builds without being at the mercy of utterly idiotic RNG combinations. Most importantly it balances weapons, your weapon sucks at crit and status? No problem, lock something else.

The danger is that if we just pay a one time cost to lock a stat we'll almost certainly run into one of 2 scenarios:

    1) The cost is relatively low, making it relatively easy to roll great rivens

    2) The cost is justly very high, but such a high number would make people rage at DE

What I suggest is that locking stats multiplies the cost of further rolls. This distributes a huge kuva cost over many rolls rather than hitting the player with an enormous one time cost.

We now have a system with progression and some control, but with a still very strong RNG element. People can just try their dumb luck as they do now, or they can opt to invest more effort into improving their odds. As it is it's just get lucky or keep working completely aimlessly until you burn out.

[Gremlin]

7 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Yes, I will definitely pay hundreds if not thousand of plats for more freedom of modding and dmg boost on my Boar.

Go for it if you want. Or trade for low rolled ones to drop the kuva costs down a bit. Or see if you can trade your mods for others. Its not really bad if you take that into mind. :)