I want another difficult to acquire clan weapon....

[Evanescent]

First of all, yes I know fun is subjective. This gets thrown around a lot. I'll just speak for myself then.

What was the main problem with the Hema research?

It was the resource that was required, not the grind. I wouldn't have minded if it was cryotic that was needed, because you have a set guaranteed amount that you can get per mission and so set a definite end goal.

Mutagen, however, is a problem. Here's why:

1)Mutagen masses are stupid rare, and you need a huge amount of it. It might be fun for ghost clans, but above that it becomes real torture.

(btw, Mutagen is not raining in the derelict. I would also ask people that run boosters and preach to kindly keep their opinions to themselves, because without boosters, guess what: it's terrible. It really is. )

2)Mutagen masses drop in only one place, and there are only 2 viable mission types to farm them in.

You see, with any other resource you could go around in tilesets and vary out the grind. That would alleveiate some of the boredom. You could do a mobile defense, run a survival, then do an interception and a defense. 

For Mutagen, there's only the derelicts to go to. Which means you're fighting one faction, in one tileset, in two mission types over and over. When those hours farming mutagen add up, burnout sets in real fast.

Oh, and infested also have craploads of CC, so if you hate infested then you're in for a lovely time. Wonderful!

Yes, Warframe is a game about grinding. But it doesn't make you grind in one mission in one tileset against one enemy-type. For almost all other things you can spice it up by changing what you do and how you're doing it. Not for mutagen.

How does this relate to OP's point? Just that be careful what you wish for. If DE does push for a clan effort, then please, please, please carefully consider the grind involved. How rare is it? Where does it drop? Who drops it? And how many mission-types can the players grind in?

That is all.

[Zendadaist]

57 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 

Anyone else find that researching hema was a positive clanship building activity?

 

Nope, it annoyed my clan greatly and if anything put us right off it because everyone felt like they -had- to spend their time grinding the Derelicts instead of doing other missions. As a small Shadow Clan barely bigger than Ghost we had a huge amount to get, and we are a clan of friends who were not interesting in kicking our less active folks just to downsize like some cold mercenary jackholes.

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Zendadaist

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

8 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

I wouldn't have minded if it was cryotic that was needed, because you have a set guaranteed amount that you can get per mission and so set a definite end goal.

Although that set amount comes from one specific mission type that not everyone enjoys.  You can change up the enemy type as well as the difficulty, but you're still doing a specific mission.  That was one of the issues with the Sibear.

Edited July 26, 2017 by (XB1)R3d P01nt
Typo

[Gabbynaru]

No, thank you!

Spending my life in the game just so that I can get a weapon ain't really something I find fun. Not to mention I have to spend plat to make it less painful as well. So, no thanks. Hema, Mutagen Sample and all the weapons that require Cryotic can just... Yeah, screw those weapons and screw repetitive grind! If there were more sources for those, I wouldn't mind it as much, but there's only one (ODS for Mutagen Sample, and Excavation for Cryotic), so... nah, I'm fine.

[Wrum]

as a solo ghost clan i say no. seriously i need to get 5000 samples by my self for an ok weapon.

[MystMan]

I can't say the Hema improved team building experience.  The clan either already had it or it didn't.  The former got the Hema research done in a short time, the latter still struggles to this day. My Moon clan had the research done in ... I think it was 5 days, less than a week for sure. The Hema was just another Clan Event for us, so we treated it as such.

I gotta say that at that point in time, getting a 3-day Drop Chance booster was the best sortie reward ever. Thanks to it I managed to donate 1500 samples (3x the minimum each member theoretically should donate). And since I ran it with other clan members who were also using Resource Booster, everybody benefits from the Drop Chance booster and the four of us together gained so much of the stuff. I can't imagine it being time efficient to farm mutagen samples without any boosters.

[BornWithTeeth]

Anyway, Evanescent is completely right. It's one thing to have a long term goal for clans, and it's quite another to proceed on the assumption that every clan is 90% full for its tier, and full of active players who can go out and grind every day.

 

Even then, basing the requirements on Mutagen Sample specifically was a completely awful idea due to the exact conditions under which they drop. They really do only drop in any kind of quantity in endless Derelict missions, and even then they're still a rare resource. If there were a Grineer weapon which required five thousand detonite ampules, it would have been reasonable, but Mutagen Sample was bonkers.

 

This disproportionately affected larger clans. For Ghost clans it wasn't as bad. It still sucked, but it wasn't as bad. I got it for my clan, I personally dropped around 90% of the samples required, but I still say it was a stupid slog.

 

So, yeah. Long term clan goals is one thing. Doing it exactly the way the Hema was implemented was daft, and DE could have been told that by anyone. 

 

For contrast: I don't think the Sibear is stupid, or the Vauban Prime Nitain requirements. I think the Hema requirements were and are really stupid.

[Evanescent]

37 minutes ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

Although that set amount comes from one specific mission type that not everyone enjoys.  You can change up the enemy type as well as the difficulty, but you're still doing a specific mission.  That was one of the issues with the Sibear.

True, but at least you could excavate on different tilesets against different enemies. With MS, you don't even have that. One tile, one mission type, one enemy-type.

 

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, k05h said:

Nope.

Does 170 nitain, 35'000 oxium and 750 mutagen mass (not samples) for ghost clan sound fun enough?

I got you on that. We can start researching instantly.

[Gamma745]

"Yes, I want another gear to set apart the elites and the casuals. Something for the hardcores to do and alienate the casuals away so I can play with those elites".

Another one of this, huh? What, now that the Hema megathread is locked you fell like you're missing something so you want to stir the hornet nest again?

Let the Hema and aggravated grind to rest. DE themselves already admitted it's a mistake.

[(PSN)RankRancid]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Despite all the backlash DE got for the hema requirements, I thought it was cool and gave my (ghost) clan a long term goal that took us about 3 months to accomplish.

I don't think they should all take months to complete, but I find some long term clan farm goals to be fun.

Anyone else find that researching hema was a positive clanship building activity?

Yes, yes and yes please!

Hopefully the weapon will be stronger than the hema and create even more salt and butthurt. 

Life just isn't worth living if there isn't an abundance of both of these materials. Mix that with this forum and we are cooking with gas.

You got my upvote!

[Hypernaut1]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)RankRancid said:

Yes, yes and yes please!

Hopefully the weapon will be stronger than the hema and create even more salt and butthurt. 

Life just isn't worth living if there isn't an abundance of both of these materials. Mix that with this forum and we are cooking with gas.

You got my upvote!

You joke, but the fact that the hema was a niche weapon and not OP is one reason why I think it was ok to have a high requirement. No one in my clan was really desperate for it, but was still good enough too keep our interest in unlocking it.

Maybe the scaling shouldn't be so drastic. As a ghost clan id have this by now even if I was solo. 

All in all, I'm just saying I liked researching hema. Hopefully they give us some more clan participatory goals soon

[Jobistober]

I'm with @Evanescent on this one. I'm fine with high research costs in the future as long as it is a common resource.

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, Jobistober said:

I'm with @Evanescent on this one. I'm fine with high research costs in the future as long as it is a common resource.

I think the best solution would be to activate a clan resource (like pigments). This way everyone starts at zero and they can better judge how difficult the grind will be and where it should take place

Edited July 26, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think the best solution would be to activate a clan resource (like pigments). This way everyone starts at zero and they can better judge how difficult the grind will be and where it should take place

Yeah, but that would be a sensible and non-toxic way of doing it which would provide an even starting position between relatively casual players and hardcore farmers and eliminate the stockpiling issue, all while allowing DE to precisely plan ahead how to grade the difficulty of research.

[Jobistober]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think the best solution would be to activate a clan resource (like pigments). This way everyone starts at zero and they can better judge how difficult the grind will be and where it should take place

That's a good point. Vets have such large stockpiles of common resources that even a large research requirement would be easy to fill. Your suggestion would level the playing field, as it were.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

3 hours ago, ProfessorLitmus said:

how bout you stop trying to turn this game into a job and just have fun like a normal person?

The game isn't fun if there isn't what OP wants. This is why I keep quitting the game.

[redeyedtreefrog]

I think one of the biggest problems with the hema is, specifically, mutagen samples.

There's really only one place they drop: derelicts.

The ONLY place that you can't matchmake into.

Any other planet or node, you go there with matchmaking set to public, and you either join a squad or a squad joins you. that means you can have casual, non-recruited, no-frame-requirement teams to farm things out.

If you wanted to farm mutagen masses, you joined a team of nekros, hydroid, trinity and leech. and people complained if you killed things as a non-hydroid or if you used even mild CCs, even if said CC was also a form of loot gathering (a la ore gaze). Oh. And you HAD to go to the DEFENSE mission.

You could join a survival group, which I find more fun, but you'd end up waiting a much longer time because of the popularity of defense as the fastest node. Even FINDING A GROUP to farm the hema was a chore if you wanted variety.

now, if for example a weapon came out that required an average donation of 200 argon crystals per member for a clan, I'm not sure I'd be angry. Because the void's a fun place. There's multiple mission types on multiple nodes, and those mission types are of multiple difficulties. And the important bit is; there's matchmaking. This is good because if I don't want to join a nekros speedva hydroid trinity defense mission, I don't have to. I can go into a survival, or a mobile defense, or a capture, or whatever I please and still farm argon crystals, at my own pace.

Though DE has been slow about it, making mutagen masses drop from eris like they do from derelict would in my opinion fix all of the problems with the hema situation, because again, matchmaking. A lot of people would have been credit-farming in akkad anyways, which would undoubtedly trivialize the 500-sample donation average, but again, it would also allow non-minmax farmers to farm it out in, say, oestrus while farming nidus parts, or in a survival mission which is my favorite mission type.

[HunRii]

Hema was the Knux requirements on steroids.  It took a stupid amount of resources to get Knux researched.  So, we as a community tended to get that research done, so DE decided that an EVEN bigger and more annoying grind was needed.

 

Nope, no thanks to this in the future.  At least the knux needed a relatively easy to farm resource where I could switch up difficulty and enemy types to keep the monotony at bay.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

You and I are the minority here, op. Granted we both had small clans, but it was nice getting together to tackle a common goal. Tactical alerts and events are the only time we regularly get on any more.

The issue is it was great for small clans, but an absolute terror for larger clans. What does this say? The resource cost for clans needs to be looked at and adjusted. Specifically for Mountain and Moon clans.

[Dark5eiD]

[o.0-]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Despite all the backlash DE got for the hema requirements, I thought it was cool and gave my (ghost) clan a long term goal that took us about 3 months to accomplish.

I don't think they should all take months to complete, but I find some long term clan farm goals to be fun.

 

The issues with Hema Research were, as has been stated earlier, revolving around Mutagen Samples:

• their absurd rarity
• and lack of adapting something in-game, to diversify its collection, after receiving feedback that there was going to be an issue for larger clans.

I'm not on my PC that has Warframe installed, to double check in-game, but I thought it was 500,000 Samples required for our Moon Clan.

If we were talking, any of the other uncommon/rare resources, well git er done at that amount.

So, my position on this, is that along as the devs do their homework on resource requirements and where players can collect them and current Inventory stockpiles, then I'd have no problem with say 11,000,000,000 Alloy/Ferrite for a Moon Clan, then sure on those specific resources of farming.

That huge of a number would be fine due to how easy those two resources are to get all across the solar system and how it is relatively easy to seemingly build several Orbiter Fleets and Landing Craft Squadrons out of that vast collection of Alloy and Ferrite in the first place.

Imagine it, collecting such a vast amount of Alloy and Ferrite to build our own Clan Fleet(s). Now THAT would be a practical clanship building activity that would have a long-term positive impact.

As for...

Quote

Anyone else find that researching hema was a positive clanship building activity?

Positive Clanship building activity?

Grinding ODD would not be what comes to mind for a positive Clanship building activity. Forgot how much I collected, how many times I ran ODD and rather not bother remembering.

[Guest]

No, I'd say the Hema helped kill the last clan I was in.

It didn't help that the gun itself is rather lackluster.

[Hypernaut1]

16 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

No, I'd say the Hema helped kill the last clan I was in.

It didn't help that the gun itself is rather lackluster.

So your clan died over a lackluster gun.... Hema wasnt the issue and they may have done you a favor 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Guest]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

So your clan died over a lackluster gun.... Hema want the issue and they may have done you a favor 

I didn't say it was the only factor, but it did contribute to a decline of morale.