Progression not needed in Warframe

[Knight_Ex]

So Ive been doing quite a bit of farming as of late with randoms and clanmates, mostly Kuva, and Ive run into many many many cases where people have no idea how to deal with guardians since they haven't completed the war within, so I was like huh ok, couple more hours Ive seen more and more people, they will just stand aside and watch as people do the syphon or they will try and repeatedly attack the guardians or the syphon itself, my first thought is  to why the person who taxi'd them didn't explain, but then again Ive seen the recruitment chat on warframe.  Anyway I actually asked one of these people to come into a discord chat and asked a few questions just to see a few things,  first question was obviously where are you currently in the game,  They said as soon as they were able to play co-op the started to co-op, I asked if they finished any of the junctions, they have not, hell they don't even have their relic station unlocked, I asked how long they have been playing, 4 months....apparently their clanmates were taxi'ing them to everything, he was mastery rank 8 and apparently spent allot of plat on the game but felt no need to progress in the actual star chart, and this is only one individuals case out of god knows how many.   I know people will argue that you can just play with friends so you avoid the players that haven't progressed but I think thats only ignoring the elephant in the room,  DE has said before that they were going to take a hard look at the taxi'ing system in warframe, content that should otherwise be unavailable is open to players extremely new to the game,  we can't just flat out say that the kuva missions contain no spoilers to the story, I mean you see the players jumping out of their warframe as the tenno.  And usually when asked you'll have someone in the squad just ruin the whole story by telling them.  Honestly if DE wants the players to experience the story then why drop these easily exploitable shortcuts in the game?  Making it casually friendly? When does the hand holding stop? 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Knight_Ex

[SeaUrchins]

I don't deal with Kuva guardians either, I just take Limbo and stay in rift, occasionally switching to operator to get the kuva.

[PoisonHD]

I personally just want Taxiing to not be a thing in the game. If you want to access a node, unlock it yourself.

[-Temp0-]

Quote

Anyway I actually asked one of these people to come into a discord chat and asked a few questions just to see a few things,  first question was obviously where are you currently in the game

You have way too much free time to spend buddy.

[Urlan]

For me, going farther on the starchart isn't progression as it doesn't present a difference in enemies outside their levels - not better rewards; affinity; or drops - outside those levels the enemy have they might as well be the same place. Levels in an rpg or similar are progression as the term refers to the player getting more tools or abilities to deal with increased threats in the game. Mods for Warframe are progression. This progression further limited and a level of customization represented in the particular progression the player has by mod slots, mod points, mod polarities and upgrades of this kind that interact with mods. It could be that players that rushed through the quests, which represent tutorials basically could have missed their concepts or that particularly with Kuva Siphons, as in the quest, they need to beat the braids up as Lotus' dialog in the encounter reinforces. If you encounter players that don't know how to do the task, try to reach out to them as you have, and see if you can direct them to the proper tactics, often this will help others in time as they teach more.

[Xardis]

36 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Ive run into many many many cases where people have no idea how to deal with guardians since they haven't completed the war within

What? Is it even possible to get in a Kuva mission without that quest? I assumed not since it unlocks the only way to do Kuva syphon missions.

[Knight_Ex]

3 minutes ago, Urlan said:

For me, going farther on the starchart isn't progression as it doesn't present a difference in enemies outside their levels - not better rewards; affinity; or drops - outside those levels the enemy have they might as well be the same place. Levels in an rpg or similar are progression as the term refers to the player getting more tools or abilities to deal with increased threats in the game. Mods for Warframe are progression. This progression further limited and a level of customization represented in the particular progression the player has by mod slots, mod points, mod polarities and upgrades of this kind that interact with mods. It could be that players that rushed through the quests, which represent tutorials basically could have missed their concepts or that particularly with Kuva Siphons, as in the quest, they need to beat the braids up as Lotus' dialog in the encounter reinforces. If you encounter players that don't know how to do the task, try to reach out to them as you have, and see if you can direct them to the proper tactics, often this will help others in time as they teach more.

Exactly, but at the same time, you won't always have someone as understanding in the mission, you might have someone that will outright attack or belittle their squadmate or even make fun of them for not knowing what to do, this could be seen as bullying I know but lets be honest here not everything is friendly when farming kuva, most want to get in and get out as soon as possible so they can start the next node,  perhaps if DE better regulated the level of content in the star chart or even put restrictions not MR restrictions, maybe progression restrictions on certain elements then this wouldn't be an issue, like an RPG people will hit a gear wall and know that they need to continue with the story to unlock more of the games content.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

This situation has created more saltiness into the community than anything else.  i am glad I'm not the only one observing this.  But this isn't just about kuva or Taxi'ing , but it's about everything.  I am the type who likes to help out random players i meet new to the game.  I take the time to answer questions, but the moment the answer is a long definition they skip what i was saying like i was an idiot talking to myself.  Eventually they become very rude and devalue my help.  The amount of new players coming to the games has increased massively in 2017.  Skill up just had to review and stream warframe to get player base to 2k new players a day. Skill up only.  So the more these issues take time to get solved the more we are plunging in this chaos, it is chaos when you look at this wonderful game with so much to learn and appreciate.  

Edited August 12, 2017 by (PS4)fullblast35

[TruthArbiter]

To me it sounds like instead of getting rid of progression it should be enforced better. Get rid of taxi'ing and that should solve most problems.

[Miser_able]

14 minutes ago, Xardis said:

What? Is it even possible to get in a Kuva mission without that quest? I assumed not since it unlocks the only way to do Kuva syphon missions.

I thought so too. If you can't taxi to sorties then how do people taxi Kuva missions, surely they would be locked just the same. 

[Ferah_Frithu]

1 hour ago, Miser_able said:

I thought so too. If you can't taxi to sorties then how do people taxi Kuva missions, surely they would be locked just the same. 

Unfortunately not. I've been taxi'd into a Kuva flood once, before I've finished the War Within, so it's definitely possible.

[Knight_Ex]

6 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

I thought so too. If you can't taxi to sorties then how do people taxi Kuva missions, surely they would be locked just the same. 

They aren't, or its a bug, we taxi'd someone earlier to the kuva mission and he just stood there and looked at the syphon cause he couldn't help :/

[Xekrin]

54 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Honestly if DE wants the players to experience the story then why drop these easily exploitable shortcuts in the game?  Making it casually friendly? When does the hand holding stop? 

Because people whine and complain when something is locked behind MR or progression so basically everything in the game must be available right away or people freak out and cry about it until its changed.

That player was correct, there is absolutely no reason to progress through the startchart other than personal preference and enjoyment.  A few things remain behind junctions or certain nodes, but considering the vastness of planets/nodes to complete, there is very little reason to do them all beyond the bare minimum to unlock what you need.

Most doesn't even require that much.  Once you get a frame you like, which is easily obtained via platinum, so no need to do bosses or quests, then its just grind grind grind with no reason at all to do much else.  I mean, personally that'd be pretty boring but if that's what the player enjoys, well they have that option I guess.

Every planet has exterms, most have survivals and so on, but they are essentially the same throughout.  Why bother doing defense and mobile defense on one planet when you've done it on another already.

38 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

You have way too much free time to spend buddy.

Or he cares enough or is simply curious enough to get to know another player.  Taking the time to involve oneself isn't exactly a waste of time.  Would that time have been better spent doing something else?  Perhaps but suggesting someone has too much free time just because they decide to make an effort is just plain rude.

Clearly your free time is up there as well if you can waste it making pointless replies and contributing nothing to a discussion.

[Knight_Ex]

I really am trying to think on what could be a less time or resource dependent solution for this, but the more I think about it the more I realize that the progression in this game contains too many flaws.  which is a shame because the story content is some of the best Ive seen in a free to play game in a long time, the taxi'ing system is not only robbing new players the chance to experience this but also making it difficult for them to function in the game as a whole since as someone mentioned the content also serves as a tutorial. Its nice to play with friends and do the same high level content as them, but really the focus should be vice versa, if friends were really keen on you playing with them they can help you get through the star chart, maybe complete the nodes or objectives that would otherwise be difficult to finish on their own?  I think its more of an issue of convience, I mean why go through the nodes individually when I can just skip right to the one I want with little to no consequence?

[Hypernaut1]

I'm sorry, but this seems so dramatic and exaggerated. You held an interview?

[-Temp0-]

19 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Or he cares enough or is simply curious enough to get to know another player.  Taking the time to involve oneself isn't exactly a waste of time.  Would that time have been better spent doing something else?  Perhaps but suggesting someone has too much free time just because they decide to make an effort is just plain rude.

He has no reasons to do either.

There's lots of people that don't do x, don't or simply can't play spy for example and whine on the forums asking for it to be removed from the game or at least sorties as well as players that don't do raids/sorties or don't hunt kuva clouds during those missions. And Kuva missions is like Lua spy/rescue or Kuva rescue - rarely done by the players and new. There's lots of people who just hate them and would rather skip but they 'need' kuva so they participate by dragging themselves through it, it's not likely they will try to catch 'the clouds' it's not something that only low mr players are doing and has little to do with the taxi system. It's one thing completing the war within, it's another dealing with lv 80 or whatever it is 2 to 5 at once kuva guardians and other lv 80 enemies surrounding them in kuva siphon. Lots of people even at mr20-24 don't even know the basics (constantly you see player having no idea what gives nova range for example), marveling that someone isn't taking a huge part in missions like Kuva farming or archwing is like. Seriously.

The op is making a chicken out of a feather. There's lots of new(er) players but that kind you see once in a blue moon. And unless there's an alert or unless you have a clanmate 'friend' that also have nothing better to do than driving you around, no one will taxi them anywhere because why the heck.

Quote

Clearly your free time is up there as well if you can waste it making pointless replies and contributing nothing to a discussion.

Look who's talking lmao. Also clicking two letters on the forums isn't equivalent to asking someone to join discord and interrogating them there just because thery were standing still in some mission instead of doing x.

[Knight_Ex]

18 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

He has no reasons to do either.

There's lots of people that don't do x, don't or simply can't play spy for example and whine on the forums asking for it to be removed from the game or at least sorties as well as players that don't do raids/sorties or don't hunt kuva clouds during those missions. And Kuva missions is like Lua spy/rescue or Kuva rescue - rarely done by the players and new. There's lots of people who just hate them and would rather skip but they 'need' kuva so they participate by dragging themselves through it, it's not likely they will try to catch 'the clouds' it's not something that only low mr players are doing and has little to do with the taxi system. It's one thing completing the war within, it's another dealing with lv 80 or whatever it is 2 to 5 at once kuva guardians and other lv 80 enemies surrounding them in kuva siphon. Lots of people even at mr20-24 don't even know the basics (constantly you see player having no idea what gives nova range for example), marveling that someone isn't taking a huge part in missions like Kuva farming or archwing is like. Seriously.

The op is making a chicken out of a feather. There's lots of new(er) players but that kind you see once in a blue moon. And unless there's an alert or unless you have a clanmate 'friend' that also have nothing better to do than driving you around, no one will taxi them anywhere because why the heck.

Look who's talking lmao. Also clicking two letters on the forums isn't equivalent to asking someone to join discord and interrogating them there just because thery were standing still in some mission instead of doing x.

Yup I held a gun to this guys head on discord while I asked him a question, makes total sense why Id go out of my way to ask a few questions to a new player, I didn't politely ask if he had a few minutes to spare on discord while I asked him a few stuff about the game, not like I took the time to explain the mission objective to him while a guardian was wacking me to death with a big stick, and OMG who uses discord anymore, geeze that thing is ancient....I mean Its not like he didn't already have it and was part of a clan that uses it...my god your right chicken out of a feather, it makes total sense!  I totally see your ummmm....logic?  Common sense aside the underlining issue is that new players can ignore progression altogether when a taxi system like we have exsist and then run into a situation where players alienate them for not understanding mechanics or bringing nothing to the table during a mission,   OH but what you said was good too, the nova thing I mean...totally relevant to the conversation.....its ok I understand I have a friend who likes to hear himself talk too. :)

[ShenzaiBird]

1 hour ago, PoisonHD said:

I personally just want Taxiing to not be a thing in the game. If you want to access a node, unlock it yourself.

Yeah, agreed. It's not even that much effort unlocking everything, especially when you're new and you just wanna play more and more and more.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

So Ive been doing quite a bit of farming as of late with randoms and clanmates, mostly Kuva, and Ive run into many many many cases where people have no idea how to deal with guardians since they haven't completed the war within, so I was like huh ok, couple more hours Ive seen more and more people, they will just stand aside and watch as people do the syphon or they will try and repeatedly attack the guardians or the syphon itself, my first thought is  to why the person who taxi'd them didn't explain, but then again Ive seen the recruitment chat on warframe.  Anyway I actually asked one of these people to come into a discord chat and asked a few questions just to see a few things,  first question was obviously where are you currently in the game,  They said as soon as they were able to play co-op the started to co-op, I asked if they finished any of the junctions, they have not, hell they don't even have their relic station unlocked, I asked how long they have been playing, 4 months....apparently their clanmates were taxi'ing them to everything, he was mastery rank 8 and apparently spent allot of plat on the game but felt no need to progress in the actual star chart, and this is only one individuals case out of god knows how many.   I know people will argue that you can just play with friends so you avoid the players that haven't progressed but I think thats only ignoring the elephant in the room,  DE has said before that they were going to take a hard look at the taxi'ing system in warframe, content that should otherwise be unavailable is open to players extremely new to the game,  we can't just flat out say that the kuva missions contain no spoilers to the story, I mean you see the players jumping out of their warframe as the tenno.  And usually when asked you'll have someone in the squad just ruin the whole story by telling them.  Honestly if DE wants the players to experience the story then why drop these easily exploitable shortcuts in the game?  Making it casually friendly? When does the hand holding stop? 

Everyone's experience and commitment level in Warframe is different.

It's both smart and beneficial to not just talk to these players, but mentor them as to what Warframe truly offers.  Attempt to expand the possibilities for them.  Be kind.

I remember first trying to use my Operator to fight the Grineer fatties and I was a mess.  Now it's almost a science.

Coat-tailers will either become more engaged or fade away.  I'm just glad they spent money and enjoy the game so Warframe continues to live on and grow...

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[SenorClipClop]

As much as it sucks that situations happen like how OP says, I disagree with the simple solution of outright doing away with the taxi function because of the impact it would have on new players and Alerts. When I was a new player and large parts of the Starchart were still locked to me, the continuous stream of Alerts were a huge boon to my early game -- rare mods, extra Credits, rare rseources and, my favourite thing, blueprints for Alt Helmet (cosmetics I didn't have to pay for). Thing was, since these alerts never lasted longer than an hour, sometimes I was physically unable to get to the node in time to catch the alert. Even if the mission was well within my means of accomplishing, the amount of time to get through the other missions on the way would be too much. That's when taxi came in and really made me appreciate the co-operative community of Warframe. Later on in the game (after rare resources became less lucrative for me and I'd found all the alt helmets) I started paying it forward and helping connect those new players to the Alerts that made such a big early-game difference for me.

[MagPrime]

17 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

As much as it sucks that situations happen like how OP says, I disagree with the simple solution of outright doing away with the taxi function because of the impact it would have on new players and Alerts. When I was a new player and large parts of the Starchart were still locked to me, the continuous stream of Alerts were a huge boon to my early game -- rare mods, extra Credits, rare rseources and, my favourite thing, blueprints for Alt Helmet (cosmetics I didn't have to pay for). Thing was, since these alerts never lasted longer than an hour, sometimes I was physically unable to get to the node in time to catch the alert. Even if the mission was well within my means of accomplishing, the amount of time to get through the other missions on the way would be too much. That's when taxi came in and really made me appreciate the co-operative community of Warframe. Later on in the game (after rare resources became less lucrative for me and I'd found all the alt helmets) I started paying it forward and helping connect those new players to the Alerts that made such a big early-game difference for me.

Agreed.

Being able to taxi people is a valuable tool for Warframe.  I've met a lot of newer players that were discouraged by seeing alerts for things they wanted or felt they needed, but were unable to find teams to clear their way to the alert.

They were willing to get there on their own, but lacked the experience, equipment and support to get there. 

imo, the benefits of the taxi feature outweigh the downsides.

However, OP does a point about players being in Kuva Siphon missions when they haven't completed the quest line.  Those missions should be locked just like Sorties.

[SenorClipClop]

20 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

OP does a point about players being in Kuva Siphon missions when they haven't completed the quest line.  Those missions should be locked just like Sorties.

This is a better fix for OP's specific example.It makes sense that if a player has never encountered the Kuva Guardians, Worm Queen etc. from the quest, the player shouldn't be allowed to play Siphon missions. For one there are story/lore gaps left unaddressed by not playing TWW, and furthermore they don't have full Operator mode unlocked yet.

Edited August 13, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[MagPrime]

23 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

This is a better fix for OP's specific example.It makes sense that if a player has never encountered the Kuva Guardians, Worm Queen etc., the player shouldn't be allowed to play Siphon missions. For one there are story/lore gaps left, and furthermore they don't have full Operator mode unlocked yet.

It makes the most sense.  There is no reason they should have access to a mission that requires an ability they don't have yet. 

[(XBOX)Ubern00ber88]

Text wall aside...if they haven't completed war within then they couldn't have done anything anyways as operator powers are locked until after.

Simple splution is pull a sortie with kuva missions and quest lock them.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

They made taxi'ing to relays with high mr caps imposible, why can't they do the same with kuva's?

One can only wonder

 

 

Also, unrelated, i dunno why but i felt my replies these past few threads are a bit salty..