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Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!


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3 minutes ago, CpTKugelHagel said:

ye a pinpoint accuracy hitscan sniper rifle compared to a travel time sniperrifle without pinpoint accuarcy i guess its harder to hit with the warframe one (sarcasm)

Especially given that Warframe snipers don't have full pinpoint accuracy. Take some consecutive rapid-succession shots looking at an AI disabled enemy at 100m, tell me how many of the shots actually hit, do this with a normal Vulkar, or even a Vectis model.

Edited by DarkDullahan-Prime
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Just now, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Especially given that Warframe snipers don't have full pinpoint accuracy. Take some consecutive rapid-succession shots looking at an AI disabled enemy at 100m, tell me how many of the shots actually hit. 

the original shot of the hitscan snipers has pinpoint accuracy the multishot-shot not always has pinpoint accuracy

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2 minutes ago, CpTKugelHagel said:

the original shot of the hitscan snipers has pinpoint accuracy the multishot-shot not always has pinpoint accuracy

On top of the fact that Vectis and Vulkar models both have base accuracy ratings of less than 15% (this is without multishot), makes complete sense. Absolutely.

Edited by DarkDullahan-Prime
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22 hours ago, GhostJak1 said:

That moment when you realize real bullets have flight speed and ppl have shot other ppl at over 1.5 miles away + at those distances they even have to take into account how much the earth is going to rotate durring that time of flight which is about 4-6 seconds 😱 and that's not even taking into account humidity, wind drift, spin drift, barometric pressure, elevation to target all things needed to know to make long shots. Gotta git gud and just compensate for enemy movement 

That moment when you realize there is no ballistics for other snipers in WF so no one's bothering with slow projectiles when all other snipers are perfect hitscan

Lanka need projectile speed buff or it will be irrelevant

 

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On 9/27/2017 at 3:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:


General Sniper Changes:
 

  • Reticle sway removed from all zoom levels!

  • 1 meter punch through added to all snipers without any to start with (snipers with innate punch through unchanged).

  • 1 combo count removed at a time when duration runs out instead of all of them (decay vs. cooldown).

  • 1 combo count removed on miss instead of all of them

  • Additional bullets from multishot will each count as their own hits and misses in the combo counter

  • Combo duration reduced to 2 seconds for all snipers apart from Lanka which is reduced to 6

  • Damage fall off begins at 400 meters and ends at 600 meters with damage reduced to 50% past 600 meters.

 

Specific Sniper Weapon Changes:

 

 

Vectis

 

  • First level zoom +10% Damage replaced with +30% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +50% Head Shot Damage

  • Next round is chambered immediately after firing instead of waiting for fire rate to cycle

 

Vectis Prime

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2.67

  • First level zoom +15% Damage replaced with +35% Head Shot Damage

  • First level zoom reduced from 4x to 3.5x

  • Second level zoom 20% Damage replaced with +55% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom reduced from 10x to 6x

 

Snipetron

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2

  • First level zoom +10% Damage replaced with +30% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +50% Head Shot Damage

 

Snipetron Vandal

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2

  • First level zoom +10% Damage replaced with +30% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +50% Head Shot Damage

 

Rubico

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2.67

  • First level zoom reduced from 5x to 3.5x

  • Second level zoom reduced from 12x to 6x

 

Vulkar

 

  • First level zoom +15% Damage replaced with +35% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +55% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom reduced from 6x to 4x

  • Third level zoom 20% Damage replaced with +70% Head Shot Damage

  • Third level zoom reduced from 12x to 8x

 

Vulkar Wraith

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2

  • First level zoom +15% Damage replaced with +35% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +55% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom reduced from 6x to 4x

  • Third level zoom 20% Damage replaced with +70% Head Shot Damage

  • Third level zoom reduced from 12x to 8x

 

Lanka

 

  • Charge rate decreased from 1.5 to 1

  • Second level zoom reduced from 7x to 5x

  • Third level zoom reduced from 12x to 8x


So there you have it for now - the Update notes will contain the final details, and if you have comments or discussion points please use this thread!

Thank You for removing scope sway. Would love if hip fire accuracy nerf was reverted to pre sniper "buff" where listed arsenal accuracy was the same aiming down sights and not aiming down sites.

Thank you for adding innate punch through to all snipers. Though I would like 3 meters I can happily live with 1 meter.

I find it strange that zoom levels are being reduced when we are getting an update that will make them useful. But I guess since you guys have been in the play space maybe you all realize those levels aren't needed....maybe. I am guessing combo counter bonuses are still staying the same.

Thank you for the combo counter changes. I would like a higher bases though. Like 4 or 5 seconds would be nice...

It would be really great to see Sniper Rifles either get a Critical Chance buff or maybe guaranteed crits on head shots.

Either way, I appreciate the work.

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2 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

@DatDarkOneyou use the fast mode to cover the distance then slow down for the kill. I do know what your build is but I can travel some serious distances with navigator and still have plenty of energy left.

My point was that you're using energy to boost weapon range.  Which makes it a fair trade off as a counter-argument for those who might be thinking that Navigator would need to be nerfed.  :D

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4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

My point was that you're using energy to boost weapon range.  Which makes it a fair trade off as a counter-argument for those who might be thinking that Navigator would need to be nerfed.  :D

Lol! The scary one is volt ivara mix.

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4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Oooohhh.  You just gave me an idea.  Volt + Ember's Flash Accelerant buff + Cloak Arrow and just let him Speed burst into enemies giving them all Rad procs.  LOL

Oh I was thinking ivara fire 1 round through a bunch of shields gaining 200% crit damage and as much bonus electric damage as you want. Just fly it back though the shields again.

Edited by ADDgamer45
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So we get the scope bonuses converted to "headshot damage"... and then we get less zoom. Well, explain me why 600m range, when you can barely hit a head at 200m with 12x zoom. Sounds like nobody actually tried this ingame before adding it to the plans.

 

D876Dz1.jpg

Edited by -CM-TotallyNotLimbo
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6 minutes ago, -CM-TotallyNotLimbo said:

Sounds like nobody actually tried this ingame before adding it to the plans.

That's a bold statement there given the two topic posts that explained the reasons for the changes.  I don't actually agree with the reduced zoom, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't play their game.  

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2 hours ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

You may personally view it as "balanced" but there are leagues of other players that would disagree, one of the best things about the Rubico was its x12 zoom, even in close quarters. There are times even in normal gameplay where that x12 zoom was useful/needed, there's no point to remove it now that a large open-world sandbox is being added.

It works both ways. There are plenty of other players (arguably just as many with the how little snipers are really used, lets not kid ourselves) have seen the ridiculous zoom as a hindrance in normal gameplay. As Rubico is one of my most used weapons, one of my biggest criticisms with it was solely how unnecessarily zoomed in it gets.

Also the fact alone when it comes to Rivens, a -zoom stat is considerably more valued and sought out for than not having it at all.


Again it works both ways. Though lets be honest, you and I have no idea or have any validity on "how many players" there actually is that feel one way or another. So there's nothing we can really say about that outside of conjecture.

The only thing I can argue though is nothing is "needed" as you proposed. Useful? Sure absolutely, I was never necessarily against it despite my distaste for it. But for majority of the game with not that many tiles exceeding 100m, I'd much rather have this and use Eagle Eye to increase it's zoom capabilities than to have it permanently at x12. Or just have an adjustable zoom using the scroll-wheel, but I don't think I see that happening to be honest.
(If Eagle Eye doesn't increase it to that much, than I sure hope they buff the mod then.)

Edited by HalfDarkShadow
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13 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

That's a bold statement there given the two topic posts that explained the reasons for the changes.  I don't actually agree with the reduced zoom, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't play their game.  

Yeah it's a bold statement. But when you see the head of someone at 200m with x6 scope is basically the same size as the aiming dot, and you realize the double distance for snipers is just to make them feel "shpeshial" and has no practical value, you have to decide, they either didn't try it beforehand or just don't care about them.

As of now, the change to the scope buffs is a nerf hidden in plain sight. For example, the Vulkar would give you extra damage on all the body (making the bonus apply no matter where you hit, even with it being a smaller 20%), but now it will only work with a headshot, which past 250m will be nigh impossible and just luck based. I don't want to lose mod slots just to regain that scope, same as I don't want to be forced to use harkonar scope to use the combo system.

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1 hour ago, HalfDarkShadow said:

It works both ways. There are plenty of other players (arguably just as many with the how little snipers are really used, lets not kid ourselves) have seen the ridiculous zoom as a hindrance in normal gameplay. As Rubico is one of my most used weapons, one of my biggest criticisms with it was solely how unnecessarily zoomed in it gets.

Also the fact alone when it comes to Rivens, a -zoom stat is considerably more valued and sought out for than not having it at all.


Again it works both ways. Though lets be honest, you and I have no idea or have any validity on "how many players" there actually is that feel one way or another. So there's nothing we can really say about that outside of conjecture.

The only thing I can argue though is nothing is "needed" as you proposed. Useful? Sure absolutely, I was never necessarily against it despite my distaste for it. But for majority of the game with not that many tiles exceeding 100m, I'd much rather have this and use Eagle Eye to increase it's zoom capabilities than to have it permanently at x12. Or just have an adjustable zoom using the scroll-wheel, but I don't think I see that happening to be honest.
(If Eagle Eye doesn't increase it to that much, than I sure hope they buff the mod then.)

Eagle eye gets an 8x zoom to 11.2x so 6x would be around the mid to high 8's

Edited by ADDgamer45
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5 hours ago, Brasten said:

Scope sway did not add any significant skillfulness, was entirely random, and basically just lead to unneeded strain from the finicky small mouse adjustments. Scope sway as the same regardless of action, standing, crouching, sliding, jump, gliding, latched (which looks like your sniping one handed), all had the same sway. Also you clearly don't use Sniper enough in this game or you'd know there is another limit to quickscoping Hip-fire penalty. The Hip-fire penalty (which was not removed) still requires about 0.4 seconds to fully decay while zooming in. Firing before that time still brings on the accuracy penalty.

Skipping any arguments about realism jumping right to Game Systems. Scope Sway is not, an still does not even with the changes coming, a justifiable counter balance to the sniper rifle class of weapons. The limited targeting and ability to deal with massed hordes of very quickly randomly moving enemies was more than enough.

Also say it with me, space magic super suits. If the Warframes can swing Fragors like helicopters blades, and hip fire rocket launchers (ogris) without issue, keeping a high power rifle steady should be no issue.

All combined with the zoom level changes, combo, and scoped headshot bonuses and there still being a Hip-fire penalty, its even more encouragement to stay scoped in as much as possible. Quickscoping would actually be harmful because of the delay in the decay of the hip-fire penalty, which works against the 2 second combo timer.

  • Um... I almost always snipe, and have easily over 1K hours logged... I think I snipe enough. I never have an issue with accuracy when I snipe. Perhaps you're just not used to them???
  • But you can deal with hordes effectively... punch through is kinda amazing that way. The amount of circumstances you find where enemies aren't even a bit lined up, or you cannot move to make it so, and there's a lot of them at the same time, are minuscule.
  • What "limited targeting"? Not sure what you mean by that.
  • Again, you can claim anything is possible with magic, but that doesn't make it balanced, fair, etc.
  • The zoom level changes are horrid. Have you seen 8x zoom at 300+m? It's not enough for a decent shot. Should've kept most of em as they were (I posted my thoughts per weapon earlier if anyone gives a ****).
  • Even if quickscoping is "less effective" or "discouraged", that's not a bad thing... Snipers aren't meant for that anyways. If you want that, use a shotgun, semi-auto rifle like the latrons, etc. There are options for that style of gameplay. Including snipers, if you want to use them against what they're really meant for and compensate for that with skill and practice.
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16 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:
  • Um... I almost always snipe, and have easily over 1K hours logged... I think I snipe enough. I never have an issue with accuracy when I snipe. Perhaps you're just not used to them???
  • But you can deal with hordes effectively... punch through is kinda amazing that way. The amount of circumstances you find where enemies aren't even a bit lined up, or you cannot move to make it so, and there's a lot of them at the same time, are minuscule.
  • What "limited targeting"? Not sure what you mean by that.
  • Again, you can claim anything is possible with magic, but that doesn't make it balanced, fair, etc.
  • The zoom level changes are horrid. Have you seen 8x zoom at 300+m? It's not enough for a decent shot. Should've kept most of em as they were (I posted my thoughts per weapon earlier if anyone gives a ****).
  • Even if quickscoping is "less effective" or "discouraged", that's not a bad thing... Snipers aren't meant for that anyways. If you want that, use a shotgun, semi-auto rifle like the latrons, etc. There are options for that style of gameplay. Including snipers, if you want to use them against what they're really meant for and compensate for that with skill and practice.

Back again to defend the rights of sniper rifles to actually be sniper rifles and I'd like to say amen to that brother.

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