GreyEnneract Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Can't complain. DE refuses to add an auction house inside of the game. Trade chat will always be a mess until the game eventually dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AoN-CanoLathra- Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I mostly use it as a price-check, so as long as I can still sort by price to see the highest buy offers and lowest sell offers, I'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintaro Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I knew that website is owned by the Corpus! I said it before and now look at it. Free Market Seriously though that is an iffy way to go yes need money to keep it up but don't think this quite right direction for website owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIREEK Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Well, considering i use warframe market to find buyers or sellers that agree with a pricing i have, let's say i only sell something for 100, i often search to see if anyone is buying for 100, it doesn't really matter if they are flashy or not, the only thing it matters is that the buyer and the seller agree on a price. So the changes to warframe market mean nothing to me, it's still the same thing, i will sell things for a fixed price and i will buy things in a specific budget that i on my own establish before going to the market, colored names and rep mean nothing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) I don't really concern about it coz most of the time I'm a buyer. Certainly I won't pay to it and my bigger concern lies within the reputation system which can be easily abused (which always happen when there's one) And now the website is slow AF and has a lot of connectivity issue and it's the priority currently. Edited October 30, 2017 by Marvelous_A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Sean said: Even though it's free it already has ads, so an additional payment service that gives actual benefits to those paying customers is where it becomes an issue. If it didn't have ads then the payment system would be more tolerable, it sill shouldn't actually give benefits, but it'd at least make more sense. In its current form, it's the equivalent of double-dipping. So a site uses ads you can negate with ad block, then allows for donations... to provide a completely free service and he's "double dipping"... Not only is the site free, but the reputation system adds nothing of real value to a player, but it's the dev that should be shot down because he's been working full time to provide a service a lot of people use? This mentality is sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungawunga Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said: I understand Warframe.Market is a 3rd party side that is not tied to Digital Extremes. I am making this topic as it is very concerning the route it takes. They introduced a reputation system, as well as extra features who pay the website using Patreon. This is quite annoying as trading should not have advantages to being a paying customer, and also list based on your reputation. Reputation can be earned from bonuses for being a Patreon, as well as reviews. I want to know everyone's thoughts on where this site is going as it is concerning that the largest 3rd party trading site for this game is Pay2Win and gives an advantage for people who pay to the website. I also trade mostly in chat, so this does not affect me too much. I am thinking about those that will miss sales because someone has higher reputation from paying to the site and being prioritized higher on the list. Let me know your thoughts and opinions. Simply put by @-dicht.Goko-: Here is an image if you are not familiar with the recent changes the website has undergone: 3 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said: It is more flashy. It would be like a Chat Moderator selling wares in trade chat and having their purple text on. Sure their prices might not beat some players, but some players "window shop" and see the flashy name and buy from said distributor. Warframe.market gives players who pay the site more advertisement using custom profiles, more reputation and flashy "Veteran tags": Compared to: I don't see what the problem is here. The profile linked within the post needn't be redacted as that is in fact mine. Here's links to both profiles publically available for those interested: https://warframe.market/profile/--Q--Voltage/reviews/ https://warframe.market/profile/bungawunga/reviews/ You complaining about having lesser precidence on the site since you hadn't chosen to support their work? You can put effort in and trade with the individuals who've appreciated your time and those that have left legitimate reviews on your profile to build your reputation through such means. You free to trade using the platform and trade chat as you see fit without choosing to support neither DE nor the developers of warframe.market; I've chosen to support both DE and warframe.market on several occasions. 90%+ of my platinum I've accrued over time has been through trades and I've seen the value in this platform for Warframe players in general: both those who choose to not spend a dime on this game and those like myself who've made some form of contribution: directly to Digital Extremes or to third parties who've developed player assistive tools to work around inherent tedium like for example in spamming trade chat every two minutes while trying to filter through the walls of text. 4 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said: Requiring to undercut prices because someone else is selling faster due to spending real life money to trade is quite ironic and not an excuse. Why should I spend 30 dollars to be more visible when I can just buy platinum from Digital Extremes? No matter how the reputation system plays a role within players' mind, it is up to their choosing who they wish to make their purchases from. I appreciate how my support for the market has been valued through this reputation system just as it was with the original players who took up the Founders Program and reaped some form of benefit. The benefits of the market are not coercive: in the case that I am a fraudulent trader and my reputation is not justified, individuals are free to downvote or disavow my actions. That allows for those traders who've benefited their buyers to rise up in popularity if it is so the case. Think of it as being some form of 'controlled' advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Well it's not a game, it's a market. It's common for people to spend more money for more profits. Is it considered pay to win if some shops pays for advertisement while the other shops didn't? And there is actually no guarantee they'll gain more trades, so paying also puts you at risk of loss. The cost basically also cuts their platinum gain. Free users might gain less but they definitely lose nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madway7 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 hours ago, -dicht.Goko- said: content creators technically profit from DE's work. Yes, but contect creators work under guidelines and rules in order to get what they get, in my understanding the devs of that site do not work directly with DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Sean said: "reputation system adds nothing of real value to a player" Other than give the illusion of actual reputation and make paying members more visually appealing which is part of the whole issue. This update does nothing to actually fix the underlying issues that have been with WFM since Day 1, instead it creates more problems with its unintuitive design, advertisements, and systems that only benefit and favor paying users. They've chosen "flash" over "substance" now. "an illusion"... which is entirely subjective... that's what you have as visually more appealing and adds value? Which also can be built up by other players... ridiculous... Who the hell looks at the reputation over the plat cost? WF has a build in system to stop ppl getting screwed over, the chance you'll get a "bad trader" is incredibly low already, it's basically the same chance getting a good trader with high rep and a good trader with low rep, the plat cost is what the deciding factor will be when choosing who you'll go with. Making the assumption that a hypothetical illusion of appeal will influence a person to chose more plat over less plat for the same item they are buying is absurd... And the site has more substance than ever, have you bothered to even look? The tracking statistics on items are awesome, the ability to pre-create an in-game message for the player you want to contact, altering an item you have for shows current pricing, not having to see PS4/Xbox sales... claiming less substance is wilful ignorance at best, the site is distinctly better than the old site, in both depth and flash. And ads? every site has ads, you don't like ads, get ad block, weak as hell argument... This is one pretty big cry over a rep system, based entirely on assumption and ignorance, it's pretty pathetic, you don;t even bother to state your "underlying issues"... Edited October 31, 2017 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broodmoe Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Glad i never used that website to make my Sells/Buys. I feel sorry for the one who did use it they are just adding paranoia with the whole ranks system so they can cash in some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzVei Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 hours ago, GreyEnneract said: Can't complain. DE refuses to add an auction house inside of the game. Trade chat will always be a mess until the game eventually dies. Agree. Let see if DE gonna implements auction on Cetus. At least its safe to put auction on Cetus (it's trading places anyway), and hopefully put Maroo on EARTH. She's way too long in orbit ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiphoton Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) I stopped using that site for advertising my stuff when I realized that a random riven for a random weapon can be sold for more than most prime sets anyway. Edited October 31, 2017 by Antiphoton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sean said: The reputation system is a key example of all flash and no substance. The illusion of it being useful applies to taking advantage of newer players that think it actually means something and thus could spend money since they would think it gives them a "boost" when that same money could be spent on platinum that they would see far more gains with. That is poor as hell, so it's gone from giving other users an advantage of some kind to it taking advantage of the average gullible idiot because it has the 'appearance of an advantage'... This is the most asinine argument I've seen on this topic... 3 hours ago, Sean said: The major points of this update were the visuals and Patreon/Ads, again, choosing "flash". Cool so ignore any additions call it "without substance", refer to it all as flash because it looks nicer... Love how no1 has provided any indication of what "substance" means to them... Ambiguous terms tossed around with meaning but lacking substance themselves... This is really really weak. 3 hours ago, Sean said: A website shouldn't be designed with the intention of requiring AdBlock. Ads are a necessity, but they stop being so when the site puts Patreon front and center with "perks" that benefit the paying users. If the Patreon they have was just a tip jar with nothing that gave preference from one user to the next, then that'd be great, but that is not the case. I doubt any website is... No, there is no "patreon therefore no ads" the 2 are not mutually exclusive, ads might be frowned upon for a site making 10s of thousands in donations, but this entire concept of 1 or the other is an entire fabrication you created. And then we're back to patreons getting an advantage... is it an advantage or the illusion of an advantage? Make up your mind... 1. In a months time the rep points will be all over the place, you will not be able to tell a good seller from a patreon because +15 rep point is nothing, it only stands out right now because everyone else is at zero. 2. Take a giant games support site like the Nexus, it takes in donations and has ads which you can not see if you are a supporter... Or you can just use ad block... the 'issue' you have created is the norm for most other sites in general... The Devs of WFM get less in patreon donations than I do living off my government as a student, which is not a lot, so I see no issues with them having ads on the site if they are working on it full time, which I'm led to believe they are. Even Youtube has Youtube Red... It's normality to pay to not see ads, and you act like the WFM devs are picking the pinnies from pockets devoid of coin, it's a stingy as hell attitude. 3 hours ago, Sean said: Will end up repeating myself a bit here, but it isn't so much of the rep system actually being useful, it's back to the illusion of it and there will be those that think that ones with some rep are actually more trustworthy than those that do not. The rep system should really just be removed, it serves no real purpose other than to push Patreon. And back to it being an illusion... You flip flop more than my flipflops... The ads are the push to patreon, and they are pretty light tbh. The rep system will end up the same for everyone in a month or so and it will mean less than it does now as you do not need to visit a profile to contact them and in that case you'll never know they paid anything. 3 hours ago, Sean said: Often ads on that site sit for months or even years and are thus no longer relevant, Jesus.. you mean item listings? or ads? using "ads" for both a thing on the site that gains revenue and also the item listing that ppl put up for their item is stupefying... And how do you know it's not been addressed? have you been reading the dev posts? I highly doubt it... and there has not been enough time to see if the issue has been fixed... making this assertion a presumption on your part, and therefore an irrelevant issue created to further a weak agenda... 3 hours ago, Sean said: opinions are a helluva thing. Opinions based on poor deduction, presumption and ignorance are meaningless. Edited October 31, 2017 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 As far as I'm concerned, they've screwed themselves by doing what other software people often do - try to fix something that ain't broke. The site seems incomprehensible and unusable to me now and I haven't the slightest interest in whatever added silly "features" they've put in. I'm now going to be less inclined to use the website. And get off my lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)psycofang Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The true question everyone is missing Why does that bronze 3$ icon look better than the gold 30$ icon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said: The true question everyone is missing Why does that bronze 3$ icon look better than the gold 30$ icon? Incentive to join the cool kids club... No noobies allowed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.Goko- Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, nms. said: Ever heard of ebay and amazon sponsored listings, ever heard of <insert retailer name>, <insert electronic/newspaper classifieds> preferred listings? Ever heard of google adsense? Advertising? marketing? ... The sh*tshow of the warframe forums. The economist wannabes talking about free markets now. Do you Mr. Economist think that digital extremes runs a platinum free market in warframe? Like no artificial scarcity, like at all. Right. Just... stop throwing a term you read on a blog just to make some buzz. If you think a logo in a profile and a number next to a smiley face, that anyone else can obtain, is some sort of insane market regulation hyper capitalistic sponsorship, then it's clear this is not even high school economics elective. So cool, he mentioned "free market trade", what a buzzword. The listings do not even look differently, what a waste of a thread I would like to reply to you, but to be honest the amount of ad hominum and salt in your reply makes me think it would not be productive of me to do so. So if you'd like to have a civilised discussion without name calling, then let me know. I'll respond in kind. If not, have a good rest of the day. Edited October 31, 2017 by -dicht.Goko- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJLP Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Never heard anything about the new pay system effecting anything on the market. Really to me all it does is remove ads and add more "trade slots" which is no big deal to me (max slots are 100 btw, more with the "rankings"). Though I haven't got a clue what reputation boost is and really I honestly don't care to find out.... I would still like warframe.market to be a thing, It would change too much about warframe if it was removed, I mean so far the trade chat is not so reasonable (You say something costs 40 and then the buyer says make it 20 etc and I hate the WTS> Example PM, Doesn't show platinum cost), warframe.market seems more reasonable. Especially the new copy feature makes it incredibly annoying for scammers as they would rather send a text that says are you selling this for 30p (instead of 40p), But now they can't, since I could ask them why didn't they use the copy to clipboard feature. And no I don't scam anyone when trading. The rep boost will not really effect much, people rather the cheaper traders than the ones that may be a little more expensive with reputation boosts. Edited October 31, 2017 by CaptainJLP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nms. Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 34 minutes ago, -dicht.Goko- said: I would like to reply to you, but to be honest the amount of ad hominum and salt in your reply makes me think it would not be productive of me to do so. So if you'd like to have a civilised discussion without name calling, then let me know. I'll respond in kind. If not, have a good rest of the day. I'm sure you would. Solid words from the one who jumped into the high horse and dissed with the reason: paid visibility (which there even isnt) = not free market. So aside from having no clue as to what you were criticizing, there wasn't even a proper conceptual pairing. Warframe.market is a privately owned classifieds/listings website funded by volunteers. It's not an economy, it's not an economic system, it's not a stock exchange. It aids a game with a completely controlled economy by an entity called Digital Extremes (the completely authoritarian entity), ruled by random number generator and a strictly predefined set of rules changeable on a whim by a small number of people. There are no means of production, anything that happens inside is a complete byproduct of the rules digital extremes has implemented. Rare items are rare because DE wields it, common items are common because DE wields it, uncommon items are uncommon because DE wields it. Whatever supply and demand, surplus and scarcity exists in the game, it is, in it's totality, an artificial creation of Digital Extremes. That 50K plat primed chamber, you know why it's that price? The initials are DE. What free market is not, "i price it any way i want", that's just freedom of choice really. There really is no discussion because what you criticized is not there, warframe.market is not an economy and what you initially tried to argue is not even valid. By the way, "ad hominem", you call it that if you want, or whatever other fallacy you pulled from the info-graphic. It doesn't change anything regarding warframe.market, can't really undermine an argument that flat-lined. In the spirit of the free market, no one is stopping anyone from creating a competitor to warframe.market straight out of their own pocket. Create away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.Goko- Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, nms. said: I'm sure you would. Solid words from the one who jumped into the high horse and dissed with the reason: paid visibility (which there even isnt) = not free market. So aside from having no clue as to what you were criticizing, there wasn't even a proper conceptual pairing. Warframe.market is a privately owned classifieds/listings website funded by volunteers. It's not an economy, it's not an economic system, it's not a stock exchange. It aids a game with a completely controlled economy by an entity called Digital Extremes (the completely authoritarian entity), ruled by random number generator and a strictly predefined set of rules changeable on a whim by a small number of people. There are no means of production, anything that happens inside is a complete byproduct of the rules digital extremes has implemented. Rare items are rare because DE wields it, common items are common because DE wields it, uncommon items are uncommon because DE wields it. Whatever supply and demand, surplus and scarcity exists in the game, it is, in it's totality, an artificial creation of Digital Extremes. That 50K plat primed chamber, you know why it's that price? The initials are DE. What free market is not, "i price it any way i want", that's just freedom of choice really. There really is no discussion because what you criticized is not there, warframe.market is not an economy and what you initially tried to argue is not even valid. By the way, "ad hominem", you call it that if you want, or whatever other fallacy you pulled from the info-graphic. It doesn't change anything regarding warframe.market, can't really undermine an argument that flat-lined. In the spirit of the free market, no one is stopping anyone from creating a competitor to warframe.market straight out of their own pocket. Create away. Thank you for proving you are incapable of making a case without being uncivilised. Allow me to show you an alternative. You see, I happen to think you have a good point and I was wrong. You're right that I wasn't an economist, I'm a physicist by trade. By the way, there IS paid visibility on the site. The impact of this on trading is yet to be determined, but it does exist. So you're wrong on that front. BTW just curious...did you mean "wields " or "wills"? The latter would make sense in the context of your sentence. And I'm not sure what the last sentence of your second paragraph is meant to state. You see, THAT is the definition of free market economics...laissez faire capitalism. Only private transactions who's value is agreed upon at the point of sale, with no obstruction. Warframe.market isn't an economy but it drives one, albeit a digital one. Remember where I said "no obstruction"? Enter @--Q--Voltage and his arguments. Need I elaborate? I hope I've shown you that it's possible to conduct a discussion without descending to primitive levels of communication. If you'd like to follow suit in the same manner, feel free. Else, let's just call it a day. Life is far too short to be upset, especially over something inconsequential over the Internet! Edited October 31, 2017 by -dicht.Goko- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelshark Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) I think it's kinda sleezy. Edited October 31, 2017 by nickelshark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--Animan8000 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Trading is fun and rewarding like bounties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazaf Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just create an in-game auction house and BOOM, problem solved. Have no idea why DE is refusing to take that step even after 7+ years of development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.Goko- Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Kazaf said: Just create an in-game auction house and BOOM, problem solved. Have no idea why DE is refusing to take that step even after 7+ years of development Because it would drive the plat price of items down significantly, thus devaluing the real world value of plat (if a set amount of plat buys more items than it once did, you won't need to buy as much plat to have everything) This will impact new players more than vets, since they'll have to grind much harder to get to the same point if they want to...or they can pay for it. Hence why DE is reluctant to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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