Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Cytobel]

Volt is and will continue to be terrible until he has slightly less broad build requirements.  As long as he REQUIRES Strength, Range, AND Duration, he's screwed.  Buffing damage on Discharge doesn't help at all.

The main problem Volt faces is that you cannot make a generally good build without EXTREME measures.  You REQUIRE Primed Vigor, Capacitance, Augur Message, and 2 FULL stacks of Arcane Barrier to overcome his lack of durability.  You have to stack Duration for his Speed, whether you want to or not.  You MUST run Strength for Speed, and Rush as well.  Efficiency isn't optional.  Also, if you're not stacking Range, give up!  Oh, and base Volt's fragile as hell, both versions are slow as balls, and base Volt has no energy.

That's the issues with Volt.  He needs everything, his abilities need more duration, higher range, and greater effect at base strength.  He is the epitome of "underpowered", and I'm not even asking for DAMAGE to fix this.  I'm asking for something more intensive and with lower damage numbers than a terrible nuke.

[Maka.Bones]

 I'm really excited for the changes to Atlas, and Ash!!! Also, happy for other Gara users, that their wall will now work better :D

 

Sad about ember though. I do agree that her WoF needed a change though, and I think that's a step in the right direction. But a reduction of the range by 75% might have been better, based on squares meters affected. Also the increased energy cost, when range is already being reduced, seems unfair/overkill. 

I made a suggestion post, for ember rework ideas. I hope someone takes a look at them!

 

 

[MuscleBeach]

15 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Don't bring in the TDC into that, they already have way too much undeserved heat from the community.

Just curious, what is the TDC exactly? 

[(PSN)Tenudin]

Nerf Octavia.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, MuscleBeach said:

Just curious, what is the TDC exactly? 

Tenno Design Council.

I would totally link you a wiki entry or a topic for it, but they seem to be moving weekly =.=

[PatternistSlave]

31 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

Mirage has to aim.

Ember had a build that was all about gunplay.  You used her augment for WoF as CC.  It wasn't as good as other frames, but was fun if you didn't really want to cast abilities and just wanted to run around shooting everything.  This change will kill that build entirely and still doesn't do much for the "issue" of her running around nuking everything at low levels.

[BansheePrime]

Litteraly all they’re doing is fixing the math for vex armor damage. They’re not nerfing anything and not touching the armor half of it. Chill.

[Trichouette]

il y a 4 minutes, Bladefeather a dit :

I'm not going to complain about the damage nerf

First of all, the damage part of vex armor isn't being nerfed, but FIXED.

And second, they're not touching the armor part of vex armor UNLESS that they're making it work on overshield (taking damage into your overshield means you get armor).

 

And on top of it, they're buffing it by making it an aura.

 

You should better read the dev workshop post before posting...

[Miser_able]

Where did they say they would nerf the armor part? 

[UncaIroh]

For the sake of clarity. the adjusted vex armor damage buff will now function like serration/hornet strike/pressure point/point blank?

the whole math thing went over my head. I only know 500% damage buff gives insane damage right now. I wasn't even aware the math was different.

Edit:

Can we give Ash a visual when releasing his bladestorm? like his clones leaping out of him just before they start wrecking enemies?

Edited February 4, 2018 by UncaIroh

[jiminatorx]

It seems to me that the real solution to these problems is to introduce MR Gating of activities. A MR2 player running a lith defense mission is probably going to have a different goal than a MR22 player in the same mission. It is easy to call out Ember and Banshee but there are melee weapons that allow ANY frame to do exactly the same thing.

Change the match making system for low and mid tier worlds to give priority to other players of similar ranks. No doubt there will be plenty of people who can still nuke entire levels with a low MR but I believe it should help toward the problem of continual "power creep" ruining early game experiences.

[Ryjeon]

Fair points about the change simply amounting to a decrease in energy efficiency. Which for me will probably translate to being more reliant on energy restores in high level content. Otherwise this is my take on the changes as long-time Ember player:

Nerfing WoF's Range and Efficiency is a nerf to Ember's survivability, forcing her to rely more heavily on pre-emptive Accelerant stunlocks. WoF is nice for cc-ing incoming enemies that you might not be aware of. World on Fire's burn procs might not be a supreme CC, but they're still a massive decrease in incoming enemy damage for the entire squad.

Overall I think this change is interesting. But they need to compensate by giving Ember better tools to augment her survivability, mobility, efficiency, or all of the above. Flash Accelerant is already an amazing dps tool, so a hotter World on Fire isn't terribly exciting.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Ryjeon

[(PSN)Tenudin]

3 minutes ago, jiminatorx said:

It seems to me that the real solution to these problems is to introduce MR Gating of activities. A MR2 player running a lith defense mission is probably going to have a different goal than a MR22 player in the same mission. It is easy to call out Ember and Banshee but there are melee weapons that allow ANY frame to do exactly the same thing.

Change the match making system for low and mid tier worlds to give priority to other players of similar ranks. No doubt there will be plenty of people who can still nuke entire levels with a low MR but I believe it should help toward the problem of continual "power creep" ruining early game experiences.

That's too much work. They'd rather kill a frame.

[Shockwave-]

46 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

Mirage has to aim.

with 5 clones and a wide angle ignis... .. barely.

I melee killed with ember mostly and at the end of ANY defense to say wave 20... my melee kills are > half my total kills. meaning I killed more with melee than WOF, every  time. WOF was simply there to stun enemies (and not all them only 5 at a time within the range) so you could actually do damage without getting killed. Only on the very very low level maps could you bullet jump through the map and kill everything.

Guess i'll just bullet jump with equinox now... at least my arcane Energize sayandana goes with equinox better so i'll never run out of energy with her and do pretty much the same thing.

[(XBOX)DrivableKarma3]

So after trying out different things and thinking them through I am just going to go through the changes here that i see as negative. Overall most of these are amazing and will add a lot of diversity to our frame roster. The ones i don't see as good or helping to fix anything are chroma ember and slightly zephyr and atlas. 

I am going to save chroma for last as i have the most to say about him. 

Atlas:

Over all great changes.

4 I think his rumblers should sightly petrify enemies when get hit or hit someone. 

I think his 4's augment should make it so it has a aoe attack as well as a bit more health since right now the augment is mostly just a negative compared to not using the augment. 

Ember:

Embers changes seem counter productive. First off for lower level missions i can run with an overextended build and this will decrease my range but will in turn increase my power (at 100%) and since i'll be killing the lower level enemies so quick the efficiency will matter far less. While it is true that now she can run through missions fast it's not like I can't do that with many other frames. For higher level content over 60's the damage increase will have little effect as by that point armored enemies wont die though her 4 at all.End game for her comes from crowd control that her 4 offers and this change hurts that greatly. 

Changes:

My suggestion is possibly even worse but i'll have to see what people say. i think that instead they should reduce her 4's damage to around 1/4 of what it was previously but increase the number  of targets it can hit to around 8. As well as this i think they should add a synergy where when you cast three and it hits a target that is effect by her 4 it will leave a pool of lava that will catch enemies in it on fire. Then if you cast your 2 on the lava pools will refresh duration and grow larger to a max set range. Probably 4 meters initially 6 after her 2 with duration of 10 seconds with only duration being effected by mods. 

Zephyr:

So for her it is less that they aren't good changes and more that i think her 3 will be mostly irrelevant with her 4 if there isn't more reason to use it other then cc. As long as her 4 is good at keeping her enemies trapped then that is vastly improved as that was almost a negative in many cases using her 4 and not being able to hit enemies. 

Changes:

Overall i think she'll be fine and her three being another cc ability isn't really a problem and it could still be used in more panic situations. Maybe just a cost reduction,some extra utility, or forced slash proc. 

Chroma. 

As i said earlier i have a lot say about this change so hold on.

i'm going to come right out and say it. Personally I am against this change very much. They claim that they are fixing him but as i see it they are just nerfing his damage. He has been this way since the beginning and him being different doesn't make sense as he was made different. Unlike many frames that gain damage he has to pay for it and he may and depending on the level may never get it. Getting past that here are my thoughts.

At the most basic his first doesn't really add anything other then fun. Even though that is okay it still doesn't fit into the kit and there is little reason to use it over a weapon. 

His change to his 3 makes the least sense for several reasons. 

Build wise almost every chroma player has negative range and high strength for the simply reason that is the most reasonable way to get the most out of his 2 and 3. You want duration so if you can obtain and use your buff and strength so it's as strong as possible before it goes away. Due to this in order to have decent range you'll either have to sacrifice narrow minded and the massive duration that comes with that making him have have far less tie to obtain the buff and use it. This will create a problem he already has with consistency. If he decides to keep narrow minded he'll lose out on the range making the new change at the 10m base range far less impactful. 

I wished to see a change to effigy as its kinda meh but still really cool.

Changes:

For his 1 i think if you hold it should change elements. Next would be a synergy for effigy. Using your 1 on enemies should buff effigy's strength and range and give it a damaging aura. This should all increase based on damage done to enemies through your one. 

I have two solutions to the fix his 3..

1) Return his damage to where it was and take away the ability to self damage for the buffs. This makes it so that you have to truly earn your buffs and would keep eidolon hunter more equal across the various frames as they have abilities that can grant the damage instantly. 

2) Go all in with the team buff feel. This approach is more of a rework but works better with your ideas. First off increase the range to 15 m. This will make it a bit more generous and still is fair. in comparison rhino's roar is 25 m. Next make it so the people that are in his aura increase his buffs from taking damage. This will give him reason to build for range. Finally add a little bit of duration to make up for the massive "fix" to his damage maybe put it at 30-35 seconds. This will increase his consistency and give him a little more wiggly room to not need max duration. 

Lastly for his 4 i think the cost should be reduced. I think 5 / sec. This along with the changes to his one could make a viable rewarding and fun play style that wouldn't be reliant on his 2 or 3 but could still gain from it. 

[LSG501]

29 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Don't bring in the TDC into that, they already have way too much undeserved heat from the community.

I don't see how giving feedback or asking for suggestions based around dev thinking prior to doing a thread for everyone would gain any additional heat from the community.  It might however stop getting reworks that go too far and/or don't actually fix the underlying issues.

[.LeiA._]

Thank you guys for making Zephyr, Atlas, Mag and Volt better ! Can't wait to play Zeph and Atlas more 

[SSI_Seraph]

Gara Changes:

- We need a way to know how healthy the walls are. Maybe show the %hp of the lowest wall so that people can recast if they want to. The whole section thing is absolutely useless with how the AI just swarms in when 1-2 section are broken but if you guys don't wanna change that, let people at least know when their wall is gonna break in advance. 

- Sperorage is still absolutly undertuned and barely holds ennemies above 40 for 3sec. that CC ability feels horrible to use just because of how bad it scales with ennemy levels. Maybe give it a immunity perod where is absorbse damage and gains it as hp like snowglobe or just lower the duration and make it immune to damage. 

Zephyr Changes:

- Air burst making the tonadoes grow bigger vertically, if that's the case as showcased on the stream, is absolutely useless, it should be wider to be useful. (unless it does grow wider and the change was just visual)

- The tornado's speed at which it follows the cursor need to be higher to make that gimmick useful. 

Ember Changes:

- These changes, while starting from a good intention, are increadibly bad and leave the frame in the mud. 200% damage for doubling the drain and having your range is whorthless and will not help her scale better. You're asking one of the squishiest frames to go in mid-low range, with 0 damage reduction and no hard cc to deal negligeable damage.

- Her passive is still one of the worst in the game. 

Chroma Changes: 

- As long as spectral scream has that mediocre base range and low damage, it'll still be not worth using. 

- You guys should buff some of the underwhelming elemental ward buffs to make all 4 options competitive and not just cold winning it by a landslide. 

Atlas changes: 

- What the wall needs is more hp and height/width if petrified not damage and velocity. 

- The general enegy comsumption might be too high if you want him to spam petrify and his one. 

- The visual cluther cause by petrify on brither color needs to be tuned down a bit if possible if you can combo it with other stuff now. 

Mag changes: 

- The duration to excute cruch is still way too high.

- Personal opinion: I would prefer if polarize worked more like oberon armor stripping combo while making it less spammable to offset the buff. 400 armor at higher levels is laughable at best and the option to strip armor with polirize reliably would open up more options for comps with make on the aura slot. 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by SSI_Seraph

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I don't see how giving feedback or asking for suggestions based around dev thinking prior to doing a thread for everyone would gain any additional heat from the community.  It might however stop getting reworks that go too far and/or don't actually fix the underlying issues.

I am sorry to say, but it simply does not work like that.
The very fact that it is pain the in the backside to find up to date information about TDC, how to enter it, who is in there and how they interact with DE speaks volumes. By sheer luck I know 2 people in there, and they simply can't share around information for upcoming changes.

[ZAXNIGHTMARE]

En 2/2/2018 a las 14:03, [DE]Connor dijo:

EMBER

World On Fire - 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.
 

Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense. Her ultimate, World on Fire, is unmatched in terms of widespread lethality - while many Warframes specialize in certain mission types, Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”. By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt. These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range.

World on Fire will continue working similarly to how it does now, but with changing effects over time. The gradually increasing energy cost should encourage most players to toggle the ability when needed, instead of the current “set and forget” approach. Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies.  World on Fire is still very capable of clearing rooms and sweeping hallways, but should now be applied more deliberately!

NOOOOO, bae will be reworked nerfed

[escapereal1ty]

Atlas is my favourite warframe, so I was excited (and scared) when they said they're gonna revisit him.

So far, "changes" described in this thread seem...boring?

First, Atlas will have to channel his 3rd on Tectonics to make this ability decent, rolling boulder alone still won't do anything - that is called forced synergy.

Second, yes rubble mechanic will probably help him, but if you just change his 3 into something like "heals Atlas and adds armor if on full hp" it would be same thing.

Honestly, I expected some more signifactant changes to his 2 and 3, if not full reworks.

 

Here's my 2 cents:

If DE still thinks Rubble is intersting mechanic, let's change rolling boulder (which is launched wall form 2) to CC. Let it do little damage but petrify everything it touches, so, when Atlas finds himself on low hp, he pops the wall, launches it into enemies and then punch'em with Landslide, grabbing rubbles along the way (i.e. healing).

And introduce something new as his 3rd ability! I mean cmon, they said that Res Quake Banshee being locked down during cast is not fun, but Atlas forced to maintain a channeling ability which slows him down and limits his possibilities somehow considered as fun...

 

Let me repeat myself: Petrify ability as it is now (and as it is supposed to be in opening post here) is just boring and slowing ability.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. With suggested changes it might be better for Atlas to cast his 4th if he needs heal. Just pop 4, get everyone around you petrified, punch, get rubbles. Why would one use this annoying channeling petrify? To increase Landslide's damage? Like it does not deal enough without any forced mechanics, ffs...

Edited February 4, 2018 by escapereal1ty

[Harbinger_Of_OwO]

24 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

Where did they say they would nerf the armor part? 

People who play him call it a nerf because it fixes the math instead of breaking it. in reality it's just fixing the numbers not a nerf

[Trichouette]

il y a 2 minutes, harbingerofdawn a dit :

People who play him call it a nerf because it fixes the math instead of breaking it. in reality it's just fixing the numbers not a nerf

But they're fixing the numbers for the damage part, the armor part of vex armor isn't bugged.

[AcceptYourDeath]

vor einer Stunde schrieb VRKestrel:

Mag:

- make it impossible for enemies to leave a magnetize bubble (even with pull; maybe remove/decrease suction outside of bubble for balancing?)

I really don`t know why Mag has to deal with this! When you see enemys walk into a bubble and leave on the other side! 

It isn`t such a big problem on very high power range, still to frequent and shouldn`t be in the first place.

[AFluffyPunda]

Not only is Chroma getting nerfed but nerfin Ember`s 4th as well?! lower range, consumes more energy for double damage?! thats a real S#&$ nerf to one of my most used frames! Sacrificing Range with more energy consumption for more damage is a real S#&$ trade and Ember cant even kill lv60 mobs and above easy with the current stats that she has so why is DE even wanting to nerf her?!?! They had almost ruined the game with damage 2.5 and now this?!?!