Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[(PSN)SirLongJonBremne]

On 03/02/2018 at 2:11 PM, Terrornaut said:

Building Ember 'tanky' accomplishing nothing and actually hurts her survivability.  Her survivability comes in the form of Wof fire procs constantly panicking enemies so she really only has to worry about 1 shot every 3-5 seconds from an enemy, if she's built for heat procs and accelerant.  When I run Ember on level 100 content, I generally don't use defensive mods, because in Ember's extreme case, offense seriously is your defense.  Sometimes I might need to pull out an ancient healer if I have no allies to cover (I don't need a frost/gara/zeph, just people taking aggro or offering some debuffs), but otherwise, on sortie 2-3, even in eximus strongholds, I will still come out on top for damage in most cases.

I almost never build characters for pure offense in games, but Ember is one case where it pays off and she relies on her offense and CC.  I didn't use any augs for a long time, but once I came back and Flash Accel applied to Ember, it was worth taking. FQ generally isn't worth taking because the time enemies get back up is only slightly longer than with just having power str, which Ember should have, and guaranteed panic procs.  Enemies stop freaking out as fast as theyget up from FQ in a lot of cases anyway. HOWEVER, I now run both augments because I can boost melee damage up to 12x with my build, (8x between accel and flash accel) and 4x because of guaranteed ground finishers. Ground finishers are what make FQ worth taking.  And this basically turns her into a heavy assassin even when you can't strip armor. 

There are so many ways to strip armor fast though that there really isn't an excuse of armor=no ember anymore.  I can take a pure jat kusar, which I don't run normally, and shred through level 100+ heavies with just heat damage alone (but almost always I run heat+corrosive status.  Corrosive+heat on Ember will pretty much always beat out any other combination besides viral procs).

Anyway I will go on and on but I'll point you to this thread where I'll post build later: 

I'll link you to my build later today if I can. I would show you tomorrow if you had a pc account.  Her choice of weapons and companion matters as much as the frame's build and a lot of people don't realize that.

Just to clear up my post, I wasn't advocating for building her tanky I was trying to say that even if you did, she wouldn't do well up close to high level enemies without wof. And I agree with what you wrote, I run fq for ground finishers as well. People seem to down play the cc of fq pretty harshly and yeah I agree they get back up pretty quickly but if they're not dead they'll get hit again and get knocked back down so they usually stay put in my experience.

I would love to see any builds you have. The more I think about these changes the more I think theyll be more annoying then game changing if you run max effeciancy on ember wof costs 13 energy to cast and .75 to run continuesly so basically I can either toggle every so often or just run it like normal. The range part will be interesting to me as it puts enemys quite close so cc from wof may no longer save our bacon. But I manly use her to lazy farm credits solo, so I may just not be a very good ember when it comes to high level stuff. I'm impressed with people who bring her to sorties and do well. Though I've never personally seen anyone do it on console.  

[Razgris05]

Really appreciate all the efforts that the dev have put into these frames and make them more interesting/interactive.

well after watching the Dev Workshop and some other youtubers point of view, here is my 2 cent  on this topic

Ash - finally i can escape from the bladestorm cutscenes

Altas - Nice!! Finally there some synergy to his skills. Whoohooo

Banshee - Kinda sad about the augment change but at the same time i kinda like the new change it brings. It kinda becomes boring after a while when keep using it for focus farming although it is one of the few efficient farming method, in my opinion. At least Banshee can have some action now.

Chroma - Not a heavy chroma user but really appreciate the team buff it gives now for Vex Armour. would appreciate if the buff is an instant buff than a self-damage buff (if you get what i mean) and is a sticky buff like how its 2nd skill augment works or at least have a high range (maybe?).

Ember - kinda on the fence on this for me as i like how i can be more active when using WOF but given the health and armour the frame have, i kinda wondering if that is the best.... If there is some buff to the health and armour to the frame, it might be good? Also for the x2 dmg and energy cost + half range, can on give a proper feedback when it is available.

Gara - Same as Ember, on the fence for this change... will need to have a feel of this when available

Mag - Really nice!! Love it. Now with her 4 providing the shield/overshield gain, the augment for 3 really need to change. my suggestion to it is that the 3rd skill augment should make the enemies stay in place for a period of time (like they have been polarized, making them to be come + or - charged and stuck in place due to magnetism). and their weapon fail to work.

Volt - Whoo hoo!!!!! no further comment is needed 

Zephyr - Merger of Tailwind and Divebomb (nice~~) ||  Air Burst (hmmmmm.... might be great? would be better if it increase the width than the height of the tornado) || Tornado (finally goodbye to the randomness!! Regarding the closest tornado following the aimpoint, how about do it the same way as Chroma 4th skill augment, click and hold the skill button, select an area and the tornadoes slowly proceed to the targeted area? I find it that is better than the closest one moves to aimpoint)

 

 

 

[atejas]

4 hours ago, Sebith said:

Using teleport to join shadows is unnecessary "synergy". I think it should be done by pressing 4 again, because what if i want teleport to the enemy that run-in among marked enemies and i accidentally join the animation?

 

I assume you can use 4 to mark more enemies while your clones are active, which honestly sounds preferable.

[(PSN)ACiDiC_SiNz]

Awesome! Thank you DE

[Primed.Kyserbrig]

Hi DE,

is there a tentative schedule when these changes apply or the updates was already applied on live server? 

[Derethevil]

Just to get a better understanding on this now..
Chroma. 

Reading it on the Vex Armor thingy...
It does sound heavily like a real heavy nerf for him. And if so... you are aware that you take away the one thing Chroma is actually really good at?
Yeah. The new first ability rework sounds nice but... Chroma already is energy hungry. So it fall short in that term. Now taking away that one thing he can do well... That kills him as a Warframe. 
Maybe i do misunderstand things on it. But to me he always worked like he should. Going for maximum Ability Strength you are supposed to deal a lot of damage while being able to facetank bosses should you be able to manage the energy consumption. 
Now? 
You can go for max Strength but aren't even durable enough anymore to even get tickled by them?

Everyone were telling you DE that the only two abilities who are in dire need of a rework are his 1 and his 4.
Touching his 2 and 3, which are the only two abilities you can play Chroma with... 

Please... Think of what you are doing to him there. You could kill once again an entire Frame by not listening properly to your Community here.

[Xaero]

4 hours ago, (PS4)TEAISHENNON said:

THIS TEXT IS SO BIG I DON'T WANNA QUOTE IT

Who takes Ember to 6hr defence? Does she kill anyone there with her ult while some noobs (don't even know what they are doing at 6hr defence) cry they don't get enough kills?

Or maybe you're talking about Banshee? Just take out the augment mod and afk all you want.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Ksaero

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

@[DE]Rebecca / @[DE]Connor

 

Chroma 2nd and this new aura thing for buffing allies needs to have a fixed range of 20 meters eventually not affected by range mod for the trade off, so it makes the buffing and team utility part more viable, i'm not saying a fixed 50m affinity range but the way it is now most setups will still be going with high duration ( max narrow minded ) and strenght so the range buff will be kind of a non factor due to the actual small range

Same goes for smoke screen augment, it's a pitiful 5 meters un affected by range mod although that second of stun is when u activate it.

Consider making the travel time of Mag's polarize wave faster and eventually improve the base casting speed of crush ?

Are the new boosted shards going to buff polarize as well ? Can't remember if it's only going to boost further magnetize and crush, if they're not, consider this option for polarize as well so the 2nd, 3rd and so on casts are going to inherit some dmg/armor stripping boost and be more effective too....

PS: can the scorn & fury boost be affected by 2 separated formulas ?

it's ok about fixing and bringing in line with other dmg boosting abilities the fury bonus with the new calculations, but the scorn buff should remain as it is or it's going to negatively impact chroma's survivability

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by arm4geddon-117

[RobWasHere]

Make Chroma non-ice elements useful.

Fire could regenerate health.

Toxic could increase fire rate along with reload (like Harrow)

Electric zaps could guarantee electric proc.

[(XBOX)ShoulderCliff66]

I thought it was so sneaky that it went from Atlas and Zephyr to.... Ash, then added Ember, plus Chroma, Volt, Gara tweaks, and even a touch up for Mag!  
 

These changes are some of the things I've hoped for for a LONG time.  I really want to like Zephyr, but her kit has felt so outdated and clunky other than her 3. The added 1+2, new 2nd, and tweaks to her 4 are probably going to be exactly what I needed in my life.  

As someone who considers Banshee in his top 3, the Resonating Quake changes are more than welcome.  The constant boring burnout when helping others was miserable, and the ability itself never felt worth rooting oneself in place.  

Ember is 1 of 2 frames I've been praying for a change to (the other being Mesa - make her pistols a true Exalted Weapon and not an aim-bot turret please!).  Whole maps won't be nuked anymore, but I did my best to mimick the stats after 15 seconds and Ember was still able to do what I need her to do.  

Atlas, will be interesting to see if the changes are felt.  I love the Rubble mechanic though!

Ash, finally getting the changes we've all wanted since forever.  With the Teleport opt-in to get the invulnerability, that's deffo appreciated. 

Mag, don't really know how much these tweaks will change her.  The Shield restore on her 4 will be nice though.

Volt, another thing coming we've all wanted.  As he's another one of my top 3, I really really appreciate the changes to Discharge.

Gara, a new frame being tweaked, and I like seeing the progress and balance to her ability.

Chroma.  Sweet sweet Chroma.  I know many people don't like the fixes to the damage calculations, but I don't mind fixing the consistency.  Though, being made an aura might be moot since range is usually a dump stat.  The movement restrictions lifted on the first ability are ohmehgerd awesome, and I totes can't wait to play him again.

 

All in all, a lot of hard work on stuff we get to try out.  I can't wait for it to hit consoles!  XD

[Renzo]

After seeing how the "resonating quake" was on the stream, I would even go a step further by finetuning it. I don't think the ability should have any duration, but it would be a single big hit that deals more damage and knocks the enemies down from their feet, a bit like Rhino's stomp does but without duration. From what I saw on the stream, the augment there looked a bit stupid doing it's few seconds of damaging on it's own.

[Renzo]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ShoulderCliff66 said:

Chroma.  Sweet sweet Chroma.  I know many people don't like the fixes to the damage calculations, but I don't mind fixing the consistency.

The buff is completely out of place and definitely needs to be fixed. A 4600 damage hit from euphona that would become a 112k hit on the eidolon with just 280% or so power strength when it should deal ~30k at best.

[(PSN)Rasmus_ep88]

3 minutes ago, runx0 said:

The buff is completely out of place and definitely needs to be fixed. A 4600 damage hit from euphona that would become a 112k hit on the eidolon with just 280% or so power strength when it should deal ~30k at best.

Most of the feedback regarding Chromas isn't aimed at his damage, which prob need a toning down, but more how much this 'fix' will negatively affect his survivability

[-ZeroStar-]

I'm sorry, but as a whale, if you keep these Ember WoF changes, I'm leaving the game for good.  You already can't use her in high level content damage wise because of scaling armor, CC wise because near everyone has an equally good if not better CC without even having to use an augment... So you're taking Ember from not being able to do nearly any end-game content to not being able to do any end-game content at all... For what reason?  I won't even go into how squishy she already is and you're just taking away her only defenses?  And you expect people to play that?  Really?  In what context is Ember useful with those current changes... I SERIOUSLY want to know, because I see none...

IMO, Ember is fine as she is, her 1 and 3 do need tweaking or new abilities, and her passive needs to be, well, something beyond completely useless at all times.  People use WoF for the same reasons they use Banshee's Quake... It's efficient.  Now, let's say you nerf both of them so that they're no longer the most efficient... So then nearly everyone switches to Maim Equinox builds, because why? EFFICIENCY!!  I'm sorry DE, but your game is about farming, your players are going to find the MOST efficient way to do something and do it that way, you can keep nerfing and nerfing it, until people say F it and no longer play or you can find some sort of balance.  Now, nerfing a frame like Ember into the ground is NOT balance in any shape or form.  Same with Banshee, ALL you're doing is making it so people toss out the augment for more range... That doesn't solve the problem in the least and only infuriates paying customers...  I mean if it's too overpowered, yes it deserves a nerf, but these changes are just too drastic!!

People are playing this frame because it's the most efficient, so you nerf it.  They'll go to the next most efficient...

At the VERY LEAST all I'm asking here is that you DO NOT put a horrible HORRIBLE system in like Rivens currently are to COMPLETELY AVOID balance of ANY kind instead of ACTUALLY tweaking numbers to make weapons viable.  Yes, no matter what there IS going to be a best and worst weapon, that's unavoidable.  However, NO ONE is using good rivens on 'bad' weapons... They just aren't, the math even says it's not worth it...

And lastly, the amount of farming that needs to be done for things like focus... You took a LOT off of that grind because it would have taken literal years to finish (with the most efficient frames farming EVERY DAY), yet you don't see why nerfing the most efficient farming frames will have the EXACT same effect on players, playstyle, and your bottom line???  Really guys?  C'mon now!! 

I understand balance needs to be achieved, but you're not buffing anything, you're just nerfing frames and worsening playablility while keeping the rest of the content the same... That's not a game people are going to enjoy playing!!

PS, AMAZING that the Ember nerfs are coming RIGHT as Ember is being unvaulted, when her price before you announced it was around 800 Plat... Now she's near worthless (IF you keep these changes), GG... I can't think of a better way to piss off customers, unless you're EA that is!
 

[Cornelius.EE]

@[DE]Rebecca@[DE]Connor

I did more testing of Ember against lvl 95 enemies. I also tried to emulate the proposed changes by switching around a few mods, and I'd like to provide feedback. This is a followup to a previous post I made. I'll first summarize a few things I've already covered. If you've seen my previous post(s), please feel free to skip the next paragraph.

I'm focusing on high-power-strength builds for sortie-level content. Here is why: Ember is great at low levels, but so are many other frames. After the changes, she will still be great at low levels; people will just have to work a bit harder and that is good. High-level builds for Ember can be divided roughly into low-strength and high-strength versions. Low-strength builds focus on CC (using Firequake). They are easy to build and use and are certainly viable in sorties. They are nothing special though: any dedicated CC frame like Nyx or Vauban can do much better. This is one of the reasons why we see so few Embers in sorties. High-strength builds are what make Ember special. They are more expensive to build and harder to use, but they allow her to greatly boost team DPS (with Flash Accelerant and Fireball Frenzy) while still doing good CC. High-strength Ember has a niche: compared to frames like Rhino and Nova, her CC is less reliable, but she gives a much bigger effective team DPS buff (if running 4xCP and Viral + Heat against Grineer or Corrupted, or Corrosive + Heat against Infested). On the other hand, she finds it hard to compete with a high-strength Octavia for team DPS and can't even come close to a Sonar+Resonance Banshee, but she has better CC than either. High strength builds also already require a very active playstyle to work, which happens to be one of the goals of the proposed changes.

Here is Ember fighting 20 lvl 95 heavy gunners. For this run, I'm trying to keep WoF up as much as possible. I swapped Fireball Frenzy for Redirection because I'm running solo and want to be able to take a stray bullet or two.

Notes:
- Running WoF with high strength is not sustainable indefinitely even before the proposed changes
- Using it this way is still viable in a team though, because teammates can pick up the slack while Ember recoves her energy
- Ember still has to be really active. No issues with passive, mindless, boring gameplay

Here is a run where I try to use WoF more judiciously and use Flash Accelerant more:

Notes:
- Doing this is usually sustainable throughout a mission, but requires careful timing of abilities
- Again no problems with passive, mindless, boring gameplay
- I got killed a bunch during these tests, regardless of how I used WoF, so I wanted to show that. CC with this build is not perfect and requires care when running solo or as the only CC provider on the team

Here is an attempt to replicate some of the WoF changes by using mods. The relevant stats are:
My typical build:
- Range: 21.75
- Status 85%
- Activation energy: 33
- Energy/second = 2.17
Altered build:
- Range: 13.65 (a bit more than 50% of initial range)
- Status 100%
- Activation energy: 78 (I know this won't be increased, so I compensated by starting WoF at "base" while standing on energy orbs, and used pancakes during the fight)
- Energy/second = 3.03 (Actually less than the proposed drain after 10s of use)

In practice:

Notes:
- Serious energy problems despite using orbs and pancakes to offset artifically inflated activation costs
- CC is much less reliable even while WoF is up. I got shot at way more than in the previous videos and had to dodge and control line of sight much more to stay alive (unsuccessfully)
- I got killed way more often than with my usual build

Conclusion:
The proposed changes will improve Ember's balance at low levels. I like that. High-level, low-strength CC builds will stay viable, but will be weaker. This is because Firequake does not require strength, so players can build for very high range and efficiency to offset the nerfs _{(*but see note at bottom)}. Given that Ember CC builds are less than stellar compared to the competition from other frames, and that low-strength CC Embers can offer nothing but CC, this isn't great.

The changes will hurt high-strength builds the most. Players using high-strength buff builds will have to avoid using WoF almost entirely and concentrate on buffing, with much less CC to offer. Embers in high-level content will be reduced to either (1) mediocre CC frames or (2) decent DPS buffers that still have to work much harder than other frames that can give a comparable buff. Right now, I can use 3 of my abilities (Fireball Frenzy, Flash Accelerant, WoF) effectively and synergistically with a single build. If these changes are implemented, I'll have to choose between either using Firequake OR using Fireball Frenzy + Flash Accelerant. In other words: the changes result in a weaker Ember and in less complex, less interesting gameplay, which is the exact opposite of their intended goal.

Suggestions:
(1) To preserve WoF's viablity for high-level CC, its range has to be left intact. As I've suggested before, introducing damage falloff or simply making WoF deal no damage beyond half-range will solve the low-level OPness but keep the ability good at high levels.
(2) If energy drain over time has to be increased to encourage players to turn the ability on and off when needed, please consider greatly reducing activation energy cost to encourage this further, especially at high levels where energy requirements are steeper. Otherwise, consider introducing another mechanic to reward players for skillful play. For example, keep the proposed counter  that increases energy drain and decreases range, but make the counter go down when the player scores kills with their weapons.

Finally, please do not take my criticism/suggetions badly. I just really enjoy your game and want to contribute to making it better.

 

_{*Currently, extreme range does not benefit WoF at high levels much because WoF can only target so many things at a time. With high range, there will be more possible targets, but since they don't die from the blasts, WoF will mostly hit the nearest enemies. This results in effective CC range being smaller than theoretical max range. In other words: WoF already has a mechanic that prevents it from being OP with high-range builds. The problem is that this penalty only kicks in at high levels.}

Edited February 8, 2018 by Cornelius.EE

[Nez-Kal]

20 minutes ago, -ZeroStar- said:

I'm sorry, but as a whale, if you keep these Ember WoF changes, I'm leaving the game for good.

Alrighty then. See ya. Have a nice day.

[CaptainJLP]

Your not going to tweak Limbo? A lot of players don't like how the new limbo can't bring enemies into the rift with his 1st ability while in the rift. How can this be bypassed so easily?

Limbo used to have a play-style that used the ability to bring enemies into the rift while in the rift. So he could deal with enemies much more easily, but now its not possible.

Edited February 5, 2018 by CaptainJLP

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, CaptainJLP said:

Your not going to tweak Limbo? A lot of players don't like how the new limbo can't bring enemies into the rift with his 1st ability while in the rift. How can this be bypassed so easily?

Limbo used to have a play-style that used the ability to bring enemies into the rift while in the rift. So he could deal with enemies much more easily, but now its not possible.

I would love the old banish back as well, but then limbos would permanently stay in the Rift and keep banishing.

Or even turn on stasis, stay in rift, banish and banish as they use melee. Which is probably not what the devs want.

Although isn't that actually a legit playstyle that doesn't annoy team mates and gives more build diversity?

[Himenoinu]

39 minutes ago, Cornelius.EE said:

@[DE]Rebecca@[DE]Connor

I did more testing of Ember against lvl 95 enemies. I also tried to emulate the proposed changes by switching around a few mods, and I'd like to provide feedback. This is a followup to a previous post I made. I'll first summarize a few things I've already covered. If you've seen my previous post(s), please feel free to skip the next paragraph.

I'm focusing on high-power-strength builds for sortie-level content. Here is why: Ember is great at low levels, but so are many other frames. After the changes, she will still be great at low levels; people will just have to work a bit harder and that is good. High-level builds for Ember can be divided roughly into low-strength and high-strength versions. Low-strength builds focus on CC (using Firequake). They are easy to build and use and are certainly viable in sorties. They are nothing special though: any dedicated CC frame like Nyx or Vauban can do much better. This is one of the reasons why we see so few Embers in sorties. High-strength builds are what make Ember special. They are more expensive to build and harder to use, but they allow her to greatly boost team DPS (with Flash Accelerant and Fireball Frenzy) while still doing good CC. High-strength Ember has a niche: compared to frames like Rhino and Nova, her CC is less reliable, but she gives a much bigger effective team DPS buff (if running 4xCP and Viral + Heat against Grineer or Corrupted, or Corrosive + Heat against Infested). On the other hand, she finds it hard to compete with a high-strength Octavia for team DPS and can't even come close to a Sonar+Resonance Banshee, but she has better CC than either. High strength builds also already require a very active playstyle to work, which happens to be one of the goals of the proposed changes.

Here is Ember fighting 20 lvl 95 heavy gunners. For this run, I'm trying to keep WoF up as much as possible. I swapped Fireball Frenzy for Redirection because I'm running solo and want to be able to take a stray bullet or two.

Notes:
- Running WoF with high strength is not sustainable indefinitely even before the proposed changes
- Using it this way is still viable in a team though, because teammates can pick up the slack while Ember recoves her energy
- Ember still has to be really active. No issues with passive, mindless, boring gameplay

Here is a run where I try to use WoF more judiciously and use Flash Accelerant more:

Notes:
- Doing this is usually sustainable throughout a mission, but requires careful timing of abilities
- Again no problems with passive, mindless, boring gameplay
- I got killed a bunch during these tests, regardless of how I used WoF, so I wanted to show that. CC with this build is not perfect and requires care when running solo or as the only CC provider on the team

Here is an attempt to replicate some of the WoF changes by using mods. The relevant stats are:
My typical build:
- Range: 21.75
- Status 85%
- Activation energy: 33
- Energy/second = 2.17
Altered build:
- Range: 13.65 (a bit more than 50% of initial range)
- Status 100%
- Activation energy: 78 (I know this won't be increased, so I compensated by starting WoF at "base" while standing on energy orbs, and used pancakes during the fight)
- Energy/second = 3.03 (Actually less than the proposed drain after 10s of use)

In practice:

Notes:
- Serious energy problems despite using orbs and pancakes to offset artifically inflated activation costs
- CC is much less reliable even while WoF is up. I got shot way more than in the previous videos and had to control line of sight much more to stay alive as well
- I got killed way more often than with my usual build

Conclusion:
The proposed changes will improve Ember's balance at low levels. I like that. High-level, low-strength CC builds will stay viable, but will be weaker. This is because Firequake does not require strength, so players can build for very high range and efficiency to offset the nerfs _{(*but see note at bottom)}. Given that Ember CC builds are less than stellar compared to the competition from other frames, and that low-strength CC Embers can offer nothing but CC, this isn't great.

The changes will hurt high-strength builds the most. Players using high-strength buff builds will have to avoid using WoF almost entirely and concentrate on buffing, with much less CC to offer. Embers in high-level content will be reduced to either (1) mediocre CC frames or (2) decent DPS buffers that still have to work much harder than other frames that can give a comparable buff. Right now, I can use 3 of my abilities (Fireball Frenzy, Flash Accelerant, WoF) effectively and synergistically with a single build. If these changes are implemented, I'll have to choose between either using Firequake OR using Fireball Frenzy + Flash Accelerant. In other words: the changes result in a weaker Ember and in less complex, less interesting gameplay, which is the exact opposite of their intended goal.

Suggestions:
(1) To preserve WoF's viablity for high-level CC, its range has to be left intact. As I've suggested before, introducing damage falloff or simply making WoF deal no damage beyond half-range will solve the low-level OPness but keep the ability good at high levels.
(2) If energy drain over time has to be increased to encourage players to turn the ability on and off when needed, please consider greatly reducing activation energy cost to encourage this further, especially at high levels where energy requirements are steeper. Otherwise, consider introducing another mechanic to reward players for skillful play. For example, keep the proposed counter  that increases energy drain and decreases range, but make the counter go down when the player scores kills.

Finally, please do not take my criticism/suggetions badly. I just really enjoy your game and want to contribute to making it better.

 

_{*Currently, extreme range does not benefit WoF at high levels much because WoF can only target so many things at a time. With high range, there will be more possible targets, but since they don't die from the blasts, WoF will mostly hit the nearest enemies. This results in effective CC range being smaller than theoretical max range. In other words: WoF already has a mechanic that prevents it from being OP with high-range builds. The problem is that this penalty only kicks in at high levels.}

Now that's much better argumented than most posts I've seen on this thread regarding the changes to Ember's WoF. It gives a different perspective on the whole topic and while I do want to see low level ember actually using at least half the brain while traversing the map or defending an objective, I have no choice but to agree with your suggestion. The limited targets WoF can hit in a given time-frame would make the 2nd suggestion viable too.

[FelanGrey]

About Chroma.
I agree with change of damage calculation, that's overpowered for now, but I'm afraid for his survivability because with change of calculation he would get much less armor.

For examle with only Steel Fiber and 200% stenth:

- Now -  [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor] =(350*2,1)*7=5145

- Would be - [Base * (Vex + Mods)] = 350*(7+1,1)=2835 (this is 55% of what he could now)

with Steel Fiber, Armored Agility and 200% stenth:

- Now -  [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor] =(350*2,55)*7=6247.5

- Would be - [Base * (Vex + Mods)] = 350*(7+1,55)=2992.5 (this is 47.9% of what he could now)

It's almost half than he can now, and with more mods/bufs the difference will grow.

Maybe would be good if formula for armor would be - [(Base * armor Mods) * Vex Armor + other bufs]?

[(PSN)DredgenYor_Jr]

On 2/2/2018 at 7:16 PM, Raven212Cz said:

I'm not massively knowledgeable about chroma so simple question for people which knows ins and outs. How large nerf is this? 

Pretty huge

[Nauruin]

Changes like these is what the game needs, keeps it fresh, keeps it fun!

Really surprised me with Zephyr, thought you forgot about her entirely.

I approve of those changes, although I do have one small suggestion for Zyphyrs Tornado:

Make it bigger, and only one tornado at a time that you can move around (by hitting the abillity key again perhaps, holding to cancel/recast Tornado? Food for thought.)

Also might need to touch up on the effects for it a bit, make it more imposing perhaps.

 

I rate this tenno out of ten, good job o3ob

[Zybeer]

Excellent changes, can't wait! Needed for Chroma/Ember/Banshee and really nice to get to play with Zephyr/Atlas again. Those two have been sorely lacking for a long time.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

For Chroma, I wouldn' mind a range increase in his Spectral Scream. :3

[DtHouse]

They can make it more easy, just let all the melee weapons do 1000 damage at all, primary weapon deal 1500 and  secondary weapon deal 800 damage. Oh and remove all the buff or toggle skill from warframe, since all the time they are going to nerf them to the sand. Now i can free almost 2-3 warframe slot, thx DE for taking my money and change everythings again. Thx a lot -.-