Dev Workshop: Weapons, Mastery Ranks, and Stats!

[LucMakai]

5 minutes ago, paul5473 said:

Why no melee weapon revisions ?

Because they're not ready for the backlash they'll receive when they nerf the Atterax.

 

On a serious note, they probably just need more time. And they still need to revisit the beam weapons too.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, Darkduprey said:

Honnestly, my personnal experience with the beginning was limited to "okay let's buy this Boltor Prime for some plats", which was somewhere around 30 plats at this time, then destroy all the game with this weapon only until MR14.

Was it necessary to have fun?

No, definitely not, this was the optimal choice but if I look at my situation again, the best word would be "ridiculous", I SHOULD have been forced to use weaker weapons IMO, it's the whole point of a progression based game.

If you think that newcomers have to use a end game viable weapon at the very start of the game to have fun and to keep playing, I'm not sure that you get the concept of this game right.

THIS is exactly what keep someone motivated to play: Having a target to reach.

And the boltor prime could easily have taken u to the end. Now with less dmg and crit/status i cant wait to see how much further it can go. 

[iNullias]

Zarr, Tiberon, Attica Buffs sound realy interesting in my opinion!

[Guest]

[DroopingPuppy]

Just now, Nastumi said:

Actually, why is it toxic ? MR isn't so hard to get, you get gears, level them, upgrade your MR, it's a common prgression you see in nearly every game, and a newcomer should not get overpowered stuff right off the bat (plus you already have many powerfull weapons at a decent MR).

Warframe have MR requirement, but if you compare it to other games, it's quite friendly to begginers that actually want to dedicate a bit to the game. I've played Final Fantasy XI and XIV for years (and it's probably the same for other MMOs) but the amount of time, grind, motivation to get the good stuff was so high, not even counting what you had to invest to reach the best gears, between leveling, farming, rng. Here you just need to enjoy the game, unlocking the starchart, playing around with what you get at your MR, as most stuff is aquired from the shop or the dojo. Plus aiming for mastery is a goal youngers players should aim for, and I see these changes as an added motivation for them to stay.

Of course, if you take players exping ONLY in Hydron, yeah, that won't make the game funnier, but maybe people will realise one day that grinding at a single place isn't the solution, and the game is vast enough.

It is indeed toxic, because MR requirement is too high. Even Braton Prime, one of the Prime weapon that is most easy to get, requires MR 8 to use. On Primary Rifles group, only Prisma Tetra is usable and accessible gear on MR 6 or below, but still it requires MR 6(no one can access for Braton Vandal unless you bought it already, you know). Consider MR 5 is the requirement for hunt for Vay Hek and Sortie(because of the requirement for The War Within), that is too extreme. The others are, sadly, needs to be throw away at some point because there is the simply better gear, with the same name but superior.

MR requirement cap for some weapon is actually fine, as for now. MR requirements of 2 or 3 for some upgraded weapons is fine. But, tiering the weapons is not connected to Warframe, where you need to put the potato and Forma individually in order to make the weapon usable.

[DroopingPuppy]

13 minutes ago, Darkduprey said:

Honnestly, my personnal experience with the beginning was limited to "okay let's buy this Boltor Prime for some plats", which was somewhere around 30 plats at this time, then destroy all the game with this weapon only until MR14.

Was it necessary to have fun?

No, definitely not, this was the optimal choice but if I look at my situation again, the best word would be "ridiculous", I SHOULD have been forced to use weaker weapons IMO, it's the whole point of a progression based game.

If you think that newcomers have to use a end game viable weapon at the very start of the game to have fun and to keep playing, I'm not sure that you get the concept of this game right.

THIS is exactly what keep someone motivated to play: Having a target to reach.

But, at least, they should able to access for at least some of them it on MR 4 or 5, because the MR is same for Sortie viable. They don't need to be access for every single endgame weapons at the beginning, but not even single one for the players that is able to play The Second Dream and The War Within(and Sortie) is not an option.

 

You know, the game is not easy enough to stick with only one weapon. So there is no problem to let the newbies to use some of the cheap but endgame viable weapons. They will use it on the mid-late game, and after that they can attempt to get more good weapons. Just cap the all the good weapons at high MR, instead, no more than block the chance to do that.

 

Simply put, why we need to be so narrow minded for the beginners, in the game that already not newbie friendly?

[kingdomeTHEMADcthulhu]

Some of these are nice most dont affect me as are tho the noobies me and a clan mate take in help are kinda screwed on some them to be honest changeing mr on syndicate weapons seems kind odd unless your making all them the same to buy and trade well im here side note can we piz have trade rework for stacks and removeing mr to get things why cant i stash gear for when i hit mr ...ps #stopnezhasuicde  recastable 3 

[CorruptedDesire]

Please for Clem's sake, DE please don't change Pandero :c

[Darkuhn]

I like the Changes 😁 MR now functions as an Indicator for the Potential of a Weapon 😊 

I really love the updates of the Despair and the Supra's as it turns the Despair into a useable weapon once again and the Supra's are turned into really nice status weapons 😊 

[(PSN)OrphanFromdabloc]

2 minutes ago, papagal321 said:

Please for Clem's sake, DE please don't change Pandero :c

 This. Seriously this.

[Masterdenk]

16 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Dex Furis

Mastery Rank increased from 5 to 10

Why.. The Dex Furis isn´t that good.

[spirit_of_76]

I am still worried about the MR changes.  I think that one more warframe slot would be enough to solve some of the MR problems

[Myscho]

Finally Tiberon got some love, now i need Prime version

[Nishi13]

Dear DE, Why nerf pandero in a patch that is supposed to increased used on not main stream weapons?

I agree with you guys that the pandero is quite easy to acquire, its only mastery rank 7, and its not that hard to build (despite the 2 argon crystals and 5500 cryotic). And it has a neutral riven disposition (but i dont think that is considered since you guys say that it wont be changing). This weapon is quite powerful when paired with a strong riven.

According to my calculations its about a 17.7% decrease on total DPS, disregarding the decreased in status chance, because it depends on the enemy and kill time, that would make a circular dependency on excel, and i was after a quick math.

i would like to propose some changes to the other than nerfing this weapon. Make it MR 9 - 10 (the lex is going to be mr 8) and make it harder to build by using a forma in the construction so players have to at least do some relic cracking and farm everything that is needed to build the forma plus the time needed to build it.

I beg of you guys, please dont nerf the pandero, i`ve spent 5 forma on it and i spent alot of time rolling the riven for it (but i wound`t mind if you guys made the riven disposition weaker).

PS: I love the tiberon buffs, i used to love that weapon and used it to do everything with it until i started doing sorties where it was impossible to kill enemies.

[atogg]

Il y a 16 heures, Oranji a dit :

I'm ready.

i feel like the damage decrease is kind of a nerf...or is it just me? (but holy thanks for the rest of the buff, its amazing you no longer have to spend 2 mod slots for decent fire rate)

[(PSN)OrphanFromdabloc]

4 minutes ago, Nishi13 said:

Dear DE, Why nerf pandero in a patch that is supposed to increased used on not main stream weapons?

I agree with you guys that the pandero is quite easy to acquire, its only mastery rank 7, and its not that hard to build (despite the 2 argon crystals and 5500 cryotic). And it has a neutral riven disposition (but i dont think that is considered since you guys say that it wont be changing). This weapon is quite powerful when paired with a strong riven.

According to my calculations its about a 17.7% decrease on total DPS, disregarding the decreased in status chance, because it depends on the enemy and kill time, that would make a circular dependency on excel, and i was after a quick math.

i would like to propose some changes to the other than nerfing this weapon. Make it MR 9 - 10 (the lex is going to be mr 8) and make it harder to build by using a forma in the construction so players have to at least do some relic cracking and farm everything that is needed to build the forma plus the time needed to build it.

I beg of you guys, please dont nerf the pandero, i`ve spent 5 forma on it and i spent alot of time rolling the riven for it (but i wound`t mind if you guys made the riven disposition weaker).

PS: I love the tiberon buffs, i used to love that weapon and used it to do everything with it until i started doing sorties where it was impossible to kill enemies.

7 Forma's for me, and I'm well over 50 rerolled on my Riven.

[JerosLime]

16 часов назад, [DE]Rebecca сказал:

Dual Toxocyst

Mastery Rank increased from 8 to 11

Damage increased from 70 to 75

Status chance increased from 35% to 37%

Frenzy buff on headshot can now be refreshed while it’s active

Frenzy buff duration decreased from 6 to 2 secs

R.I.P.

 

[HellVOps]

Unless i missed it but where are the Rakta weapons?

[shoopypit]

Some changes make no sense. Daikyu lower damage, higher crit, faster draw. Should have just increased the damage a lot instead of making it more like other bows.

Gave the Dera recoil? Why not just use the Supra now, since you reduced the recoil on it.

Nerf pandero? Ugh. I formad that thing like 3 times. Oh well.

All in all though, lots of buffs, and actually makes guns more useable in more content and opens up more builds

[BlockBadger]

16 hours ago, Giantconch said:

Oh more changes? Great to hear...maybe?

 

After reading this over for the most part is mostly buffs going around, with only a few things getting negatives added in. Looks good.

 

Reading over this list a few MORE times, I'm actually really liking the looks of these changes if they go through as-is. Sobek buff, Supra/Vandal buffs, Boltor, Tiberon, the Gorgons, Daikyu..

 

I want to say something here about syndicate secondaries all having a higher MR requirement and how I feel they shouldnt since most are seriously outclassed by other secondaries but those other secondaries that outclass them all had their MR pushed up a lot higher too so meh...

 

***How do the MR lock changes effect "awarded weapons" that are fully built?

 

Some things after lengthy consideration;

 

Pandero, it seems like just a small nerf but is this nerf really necessary? I do see it from time to time in missions but it was hardly OP or overused to the point where people would ignore ther secondaries in favor of it.

 

Lex Prime, this weapon was great for lower MR players to have a slow firing but high damage secondary they could use to help them at least keep up with the pros. Aklex same deal. Though these weapons are powerful they helped the lower rank players. Aklex prime as well shouldnt be locked as high as it is considering how Aklex P is a bit of a joke compared to other Akimbo secondaries like Akstiletto for one example.

 

Braton Prime was babies first prime for a lot of people. MR should be low enough for a player just starting out to be able to use it immediately after the MK1 and base version. It could also use a reserve ammo increase so it has at least as many bullets as a base Braton.

 

Grakata and Prisma Grakta, regular Grakata has a higher CD multiplier than Prisma, making me wonder why use the Prisma version since the base has the same base damage, same crit chance, and 1% more status chance than the Prisma variant. Ammo max? Not really an issue when running a Carrier sentinel.

 

Burston Prime, even with the buffs that weapon is a bit of a joke. Its utter garbage in its current state, and the buffs don't look like they justify an MR12 lock.

 

Supra/Vandal, are basically the same weapon now except one requires a higher MR and cant be obtained through invasion rewards. The only difference being ammo max which like with Grakata can be easily worked around with a Carrier. There is nothing that justifies Supra Vandals existence at this point. Maybe consider a slightly higher status chance?

 

The launcher secondaries already have an extremely bad time with ammo economy, especially when you start factoring in enemy armor scaling. Please reconsider the ammo max reductions and leave that aspect of them alone.

 

Akmagnus, the reload speed is going to be even longer??? Why? Its already so sluggish that even with a CC+CD+SC riven I cant stand using it simply because im stuck trying to reload while getting my face kicked in. Slower fire rate too? This poor weapon need fire rate and reload buffs, not nerfs.

 

Spira and Spira Prime, why, oh why, is the regular Spira getting such a massive damage increase while Spira Prime is not? Prime: Damage increased from 47 to 60  while regular: Damage increased from 55 to 82. That doesnt seem right at all even if Prime has a higher CD multiplier.

 

Paris Prime, as with the Braton Prime, is "babies second prime" essentially (though one might get paris p before braton p you know what I mean) and though it is a damn fine weapon it's one of those weapons that helps newer players a lot in terms of keeping up with pros on damage dealing and helps new players get a better understanding of modding and how certain game mechanics work. Please reconsider the MR on this weapon.

Your numbers are all over the place, as are your arguments. I'd carm those %$# and look as they as new weapons instead of for-filling the same role. Prime is not as important if non prime weapons don't suck.

[MisterFiddles]

I'd love to see someone put these in a nice big chart so we can eyeball the MR groupings/progression more easily while discussing the newbie experience, but overall this looks pretty good.

I'm liking nearly all of these changes, but there are a few points I'm not keen on.
In no particular order:

1. As a general note, I'm not a fan of ammo pool or mag cuts on weapons that are already prone to running dry and/or have questionable bang for buck. The rebalance might well deal with the latter problem, but the mag size on - for example - the Tysis already felt really restricting. Dropping it further does not appeal.

Like, I can see why this would be done with something like the Kulstar (bang for buck working both ways), but I remember Tysis being a pain when I levelled it, and ditto the Talons and Castanas (Sancti and vanilla both) due to what already felt like a short ammo supply.
If a weapon is easy to miss with but has an interesting mechanic, low ammo really kills the fun for me. Yes, we can mod to lightly mitigate these issues, but it means dropping slots that could be used for damage or other QoL issues.
I have to reserve judgement until the changes are in-game and this can be tested, but on paper, ammo cuts = plsno.

2. On a related point, the Fusilai; cutting the ammo pool from 210 to 75, and yet keeping that super tiny mag?
It may be a matter of personal preference (and it's not a hill I care to die on), but I felt rather let down by the Fusilai due to that short mag. I didn't have fun using them because I'd throw a few single blades out and then not have enough left for the alt-fire nine out of ten times I reached for it. I've read they can be modded to hit like a truck, but they weren't enjoyable enough to use in the short-term that I felt like doing that. I'd like to see a bit more leeway on the mag rather than cutting the pool. Maybe leave the pool as-is and make the mag a 12? The alt-fire wouldn't feel so restricted then.

Really, the only thing distinguishing these from the other knives is the alt-fire, which IMO is being hampered by the mag. 
Again, we can mod to ease it, and modding is all about compromise and balancing various qualities to suit our playstyle, but I don't feel like *fun* belongs on those scales.

3. "Dual Toxocyst
Mastery Rank increased from 8 to 11
Damage increased from 70 to 75
Status chance increased from 35% to 37%
Frenzy buff on headshot can now be refreshed while it’s active
Frenzy buff duration decreased from 6 to 2 secs"

Yay, the buff can be refreshed, something I'm delighted by as I *love* those guns but always found the stop/start on the buff unrewarding. Refreshing the buff is great, because it means making the most of it is a matter of skill, but I think the duration has been slashed a bit too far.
2 seconds to find another target and headshot it is a bit... look, I'm not Deadpool, alright? I would appreciate the leeway to ruin several perfectly good walls, doors and floors before landing another headshot. :P

4. Pandero nerf - it seems minor on paper, but it gives me a queasy feeling. I want to see this in-game but my first reaction is that I'd prefer it be left alone or having its MR bumped.

5. AkVasto and AkMagnus firerate and reload nerfs - they were pretty slow to start with. =/ 
Half the reason I don't use them is they felt too sluggish in the first place. This looks like it could make them virtually glacial... that won't be a fun wall to run into, given their sibs in their MR brackets are things like the Cestra and Spira variants. Again, of course, this is very lightly informed opinion; perhaps the new stats are monstrous in practice, but from here they look a bit frustrating. 

...and that's it! Overall this rework looks like it will put some life back into a lot of gear and finally make some sense of the MR progression, and those are very fine things indeed. Good job. ^^

Of the points above I'm only personally invested in the Toxocyst and - to a lesser degree - Pandero changes. I expect sharper minds in the community will correct me on anything I'm off base on. =]

[KittySkin]

Just now, shoopypit said:

Some changes make no sense. Daikyu lower damage, higher crit, faster draw. Should have just increased the damage a lot instead of making it more like other bows.

Gave the Dera recoil? Why not just use the Supra now, since you reduced the recoil on it.

Nerf pandero? Ugh. I formad that thing like 3 times. Oh well.

All in all though, lots of buffs, and actually makes guns more useable in more content and opens up more builds

On the daikyu thing I can add some info to make it sound more logic. The way critical damage scales its impossible to catch up with flat damage, that holds true specially once an argon scope its on the weapon. And since bows are heavy hitter one shot weapons, its logic to give the daikyu some light in order to streamline the way they work, on a side note, the daikyu its still the bow with most damage per shot, and the only one that cant release uncharged arrows, so it holds its identity now, but also remains on the same design lines as other bows do.

[Ham_Grenabe]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Its easy to lvl up. Less whining, more playin. Plus this hasnt been implemented yet... So..... Get to work:)

I'm MR 18 on Xbox and 16 on PC. I don't need to worry about any of this. I'm not personally worried about it. In fact, one of the things that made it fun to get those ranks was that I could obtain some reasonably solid weapons early on, and feel like I was able to take on tougher content with a backup plan.

What I don't like is suddenly jacking the requirements another 5+ ranks away for players who might have been looking forward to something. 

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

8 hours ago, SolarDwagon said:

Well, for one, making more base/status weapons and then pure crit weapons as two different playstyles (crit being very headshot oriented, base/status being much better for bodyshot play)
Making weapons with low base crit chance having HIGHER modded DPS on bodyshots than crit weapons.
Maybe even do more to differentiate the two playstyles.
With these changes, it's basically crit AND status on most high MR weapons.

So before i share my thoughts i just want to point out something, I mentioned base damage as a seperate playstyle not as a property of status weapons.

 

See heres what i think is the problem. We have to high end types, crit and status. Now since i don't know what damage 3.0 will bring I am going to pretend like we arent getting it in my thoughts. The reason being is that Damage 3.0 may do almost nothing for the different status types. As of right now there is no versatility with weapons. If you have 5 crit shotguns one of them is going to stand above the rest. If you have 100 status rifles, one of them is going to stand above the rest. I would like to see the creation of another separate playstyle. Possibly mechanically based. If I do action A then weapon B gets 3x damage or something like that. Also I should note that if drastic changes occur to status and I would hope that means the elements too then we may see branching playstyles from status as opposed to just status as one.

[(XBOX)JxAxYxSxIxN]

Pandero getting a nerf to make room for pandero prime. You heard it here first folks ;)