[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: Sanctuary Onslaught Feedback Megathread

[Kalvorax]

I REALLY hate the scaling changes (Normal Onslaught)

this was today:



This was 4 days ago before the "fix" to scaling



that is a MASSIVE difference between a mere 2 zones...over 3k kills difference, with no changes to my saryn spore build.

its pathetic when most of my kills are actually done doing boring as hek slide attacks :|

[Schmiddy]

I May have found a fix for the "Efficiency Problem".

First off, you need to get different ammounts of Efficiency depending on HOW you kill enemies:
Steatlth kills, Finishers, Headshots etc should all have different modifiers. 
This way, it is not just a meatgrinder that at some point will stop working because of lack of enemy spawn; instead it messures individual efficiency.
This is done so, by rewarding "skillful" gameplay and essentially putting more frames on an even level. 

I am not gonna lie, i have cheesed this to the absoloute limit... at the best setup i found myself nuking the map every 3-4 seconds. 
Depending on the Tileset it would just be over after some time, not because we weren´t killing fast enough, but because it just wasnt enough there to kill;
this is immensly frustrating. 

But getting back to the earlier point; this needs to be done in order to make more endgame viable frames, viable for this mode. 
Its a gigantic problem at the moment, that you literally can only use the most burnout enducing setups possible. 
If DE ever wonders why vets get Burnout; and by this i mean the majority of it (ofcourse there is other reasons too) - its this. 
There is alot of good mechanics in the game, alot of things that are fun and can be exploited. This is one good thing about Warframe,
while also being a curse to it. It FORCES you to cheese consistantly enough the most "efficient" way possible in order to continue, this game mode is the archetype of this problem. 

Pls fix the Efficiency drop; it needs to be relative to the enemies that are present- if the room is empty, efficiency is at 100% since there is nothing that hinders your performance.
Then add Modifiers to different types of kills; that this is possible is already shown with Harrow for example that also has a headshot modifier for example. 
That way Efficiency is based on individual efficiency, aka using all your avialabe tools to get the job done. if you die, the job has not been done. Its that simple. 
 

Maybe even use the efficiency as a multiplier for the score, so if you only onespam your nuke ability you only get 10% efficiency and thus 10% the points per kill.
If you´re flying around all over the place using all your abilites and headshotting left and right, then you should be able to get even higher than 100%, blowing over Simaris´s calculations... i think it would have been a cool take on it. Of course Rewards must be linked to points then, so its actually encouraged to play actively and find the actual BEST way to handle things. 

Modifiers i could think of:
-Headshots x2 efficiency
-Stealth Melee Kills (not on unalerted, since all are alerted) 1,5x
-Ability  Usage; Activation abilites (like lokis invis) 1,5x multipliers during the kills with it. 
-Ability Usage; Nuking/Dmg Ability-> the more Monsters killed through one ability, the less Efficiency multipler you get; after some point you´ll start recieving -Multipliers. (simaris wants his testresults)
-Teamwork multipliers Stack; Banshee uses Sonar, if ppl shoot that they get 1,5x multiplier on kill. If this is also enhanced by an rhino Roar for example, this moves up to a 2x for example and so on.

Possible Reward Fixes:
-Addition of Milestones to not inflate the market instead of just AABC Rotations

Please feel free to debate.
Thanks for reading,

Schmiddy. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Schmiddy

[DeMonkey]

I'd suggest posting this somewhere the Devs will actually read it. 

Wanting debate regarding your solution is grand, but your thread becomes ultimately pointless because it's highly unlikely to be read by anyone who matters.

[(PSN)OvalNova]

11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'd suggest posting this somewhere the Devs will actually read it. 

Wanting debate regarding your solution is grand, but your thread becomes ultimately pointless because it's highly unlikely to be read by anyone who matters.

Agreed. Highly unlikely that the Devs even read General Discussion regularly.

[ShinTechG]

I absolutely 100% agree with your concept @Schmiddy

I posted a few topics about removing this efficiency thing but ultimately came to the conclusion based on feedback I got that maybe it's a rework that is needed. From what you've said, this sounds like it will not only resolve all the various efficiency complaints, but it would also stop this cheesing and one attack moves that just make the game boring in the end.

Hopefully something like this is implemented in the future

Edited April 28, 2018 by ShinTechG

[ShinTechG]

Also, @Schmiddy If I were you I would copy and paste your contents of this post into Feedback > Missions and levels instead of general discussion and then maybe remove this current one.

[Schmiddy]

il y a 1 minute, ShinTechG a dit :

Also, @Schmiddy If I were you I would copy and paste your contents of this post into Feedback > Missions and levels instead of general discussion and then maybe remove this current one.

I Will still keep this one as a place for discussion and feedback to this Idea; i just copied the contents of this in the Feedback section. I will edit the feedback i gave further upon results sprouting from this discussion. 

[Vanille]

The thing is, you can't fix Onslaught by touching efficiency. Efficiency itself is the problem. DE wants Onslaught to be a short arcade challenge game (which was known since the first concepts were shown) but ended up implementing a survival mechanic on a mode they don't want players to stay for as long as they can survive. The efficiency drain mechanic contradicts the point of the mode and how long DE wants it to be. The only "fix" is to replace efficiency with a fixed countdown timer and letting players work their way through zones, to reach as far as they can within that time frame, being able to alter the pace of progress from zone to zone.

[Schmiddy]

il y a 9 minutes, Kiwinille a dit :

The thing is, you can't fix Onslaught by touching efficiency. Efficiency itself is the problem. DE wants Onslaught to be a short arcade challenge game (which was known since the first concepts were shown) but ended up implementing a survival mechanic on a mode they don't want players to stay for as long as they can survive. The efficiency drain mechanic contradicts the point of the mode and how long DE wants it to be. The only "fix" is to replace efficiency with a fixed countdown timer and letting players work their way through zones, to reach as far as they can within that time frame, being able to alter the pace of progress from zone to zone.

I understand the point you´re coming from; although i have to disagree. 
It would make sense to put his mode out there as a strength test; as a "Test you might" version of Survival. 
This mode doesnt need to be arcady or short for that. As i´ve referred to, time is not an issue in the solution i propose. 
If efficiency would scale the way i discribed it, then you could potentially make this mode very quick, if you manage play to your best. 
 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Schmiddy

[Vanille]

12 minutes ago, Schmiddy said:

This mode doesnt need to be arcady or short for that. As i´ve referred to, time is not an issue in the solution i propose. 
If efficiency would scale the way i discribed it, then you could potentially make this mode very quick, if you manage play to your best. 

But that's the thing. It doesn't need to be, but DE wants it to be. They want a quick mode which forces the players out of it eventually. If they followed your effiency changes suggestion, and made efficiency rewards differently depending on how you get the kill, it would only end up affecting how long players would stay in Onslaught (longer), and it's exactly what DE doesn't want. And this is my point, they made a survival mechanic making players think they control how they progress, but it's not, because they want to "kick" you out of the mode after some zones, so it's like you're running towards a cliff hoping that if you keep running, you won't fall but you can't avoid it.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Kiwinille

[Schmiddy]

il y a 8 minutes, Kiwinille a dit :

But that's the thing. It doesn't need to be, but DE wants it to be. They want a quick mode which forces the players out of it eventually. If they followed your effiency changes suggestion, and made efficiency rewards differently depending on how you get the kill, it would only end up affecting how long players would stay in Onslaught (longer), and it's exactly what DE doesn't want. And this is my point, they made a survival mechanic making players think they control how they progress, but it's not, because they want to "kick" you out of the mode after some zones, so it's like you're running against a cliff hoping that if you keep running, you won't fall but you can't avoid it.

But why ? Why would they want that ?  This seems very coutnerproductive to me; since keeping players has been Warframes biggest problem for a long time now. Having a consistent Gamemode that actually gives a reason for all the min maxing makes sense. 

Maybe even Adding Milestones would make this more reasonable since it doesnt inflate the market, if they are afraid of that. 
So just make milestones... reward a unique mod at 10million points for example. this could even lead to more plat being bought. There is alot of options to make this profitable and fun for everyone. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Schmiddy

[Vanille]

Just now, Schmiddy said:

But why ? Why would they want that ? 

Idk. It's their game. They probably didn't want people to stay hours on it like regular survivals. They've been changing the mode concept several times since they first showed on stream. The point on it was competition in leaderboards, in which they didn't want you to be able to stay in forever I guess.

[MobyTheDuck]

Armor/health scaling and lack of extra efficiency makes solo/duo elite basically impossible.

Please revise the armor/health scaling or add a scaling efficiency gain like in Infested Salvage.

[MobyTheDuck]

Even with a massive cheese build or meme strike build, its basically impossible to get past wave 7 or complete wave 8.

- Maps are way too big for one player (like Kuva Fortress on zone 6, where enemies get lost on all the corridors and cant find the player)
- One player is expected to kill the same as 4 players to keep efficiency
- Due the health/armor scaling fix, armor makes grineer and corrupted zones become an effiency black hole. While you can kill Corpus (Unless its an osprey zone) and Infested by the dozens, grineer and corrupted get massive damage reduction, corrupted are even worse due the high numbers of heavies, bombards and ancients.

I'd suggest revisiting the whole armor/health scaling system. Maybe making it like in Diablo 3, where more players = enemies have more health.
Efficiency gain also needs a boost with less players, like Infested Salvage gives a speed boost to the decryption.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

The mode is simply not solo friendly - which sucks in my opinion.

If they want "bite sized" game modes they should

• hard cap how long you stay  - 24 waves or whatever.
• get rid of the efficiency
• get rid of revives  - you die, you're out. (you may be revived by teammates, sacrifice etc)
• leaderboard based on #kills

Elite should have very rapidly escalating enemy scaling.

This would allow people who want to actually use something other than meta cheese AOE warframe builds to enjoy the game using non maiming strike melee, guns, cc frames etc.  They might not get on the leaderboard, but they could actually play it.

No matter how they try to slice it, with this efficiency mechanic, only the cheese aoe will be viable.

[moge-kov]

hi, so this literally passed like 10 min ago

so my squad and i where farming the sanctuary onslaught for the khora parts (especifically the warframe blueprint ) and whe get to the 8 zone, we get the blue print and start the next zone but the host migration happens and everyone get dropped from the mission, i saw my reward and instead of the khora blueprint i found her systems blueprint, this threw my off a little, when i asked my companions of the squad the had the same thing happened, just the host remains with the reward that we were looking for, so why this happens, could anyone explain?

P.S: sorry this is my first post

P.S.2 :Sorry if my writing is bad im latinoamerican and im not so used to write in english

p.s.3 : DE if you read this can i please have mi khora BP back ?

Edited April 29, 2018 by moge-kov

[Kyoresh]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

The mode is simply not solo friendly - which sucks in my opinion.

If they want "bite sized" game modes they should

• hard cap how long you stay  - 24 waves or whatever.
• get rid of the efficiency
• get rid of revives  - you die, you're out. (you may be revived by teammates, sacrifice etc)
• leaderboard based on #kills

Elite should have very rapidly escalating enemy scaling.

This would allow people who want to actually use something other than meta cheese AOE warframe builds to enjoy the game using non maiming strike melee, guns, cc frames etc.  They might not get on the leaderboard, but they could actually play it.

No matter how they try to slice it, with this efficiency mechanic, only the cheese aoe will be viable.

This sounds like a dream....

[StopherSylvia]

While I doubt they will revisit armor scaling because they haven't changed that mechanic in years, I do hope they adjust onslaught for a solo squad. I usually run a 2 man squad with my brother and found the elite onslaught proved to difficult to maintain efficiency for a full AABC rotation with a casual 2 man squad, i.e. using what we want, not what is meta.

 

We can handle any of the missions that are thrown at us, except elite onslaught. It's not that we are having hard time killing enemies, we chew through them like any other mode. The hard part is maintaining efficiency once we get to a non-infested tile. We spend 3x the time to kill a Heavy gunner than a lancer, but get no extra efficiency. Don't get me wrong, I spend like 2 seconds killing a lancer so killing a heavy gunner takes like 6 seconds, but each time we come across a heavy unit, we lose a little efficiency. Eventually we run out around zone 6-7.

 

One public this mode is a walk in the park, but without a full squad it is needlessly difficult. I don't want to see the enemy number reduce, but I would like to see us getting more efficiency per kill when in small squads.

[smokednin]

Have nothing much to add other than I agree 100% with you OP (and Tucker D Dawg), and hope DE takes another look at balancing this thing. I like the speed and pacing of the mode, but no matter how fast I'm killing, I generally can't complete a single full reward cycle. If the efficiency mechanic can't be salvaged, I'm all for removing it entirely. As it is right now, it just doesn't work.

A counter-argument I've been getting is that the mission isn't meant for most, and that it's to give people who can cheese missons with teams something to do, but I dunno if I buy that either.

DE have shown before that they do want all players to enjoy the game, they want all of their frames to be viable, and that they don't actually like cheese builds. The part that confuses me though is why they even made it this way to begin with...

[Jaded-Shadow]

Too Many Sealabs!

I've only had one real issue at the moment, and it has to do with the rewards. I currently have 4 of the grineer sealab captura scenes and they are...useless? I don't know what to call it, but I only need one and I can't sell the extras. Is there any way to either let us sell the extras or something?

[dudefaceguy]

I think ESO and SO are good for what they are. Tweaking them to make solo play possible is fine, but I don't think they should change the core gameplay because people like it.

Personally, I would like to see another different mode that is more focused on fighting difficult enemies, rather than blowing through cannon fodder. When the "new dark sectors" were first announced, this is what I hoped they would be:

20 minute time limit

Fixed amount of enemies spawn in each tile, and they are all very challenging, weighted towards heavies rather than trash mobs

Once you kill all of the enemies, you can advance

Rewards based on how far you get in the time allotted

[taiiat]

i would suggest pairing whatever Weapon(s) you plan to Kill with something to weaken them. a good mixture could be Trinity. you have Blessing and Link together, and if you pair that with Abating Link, you will be able to Kill Enemies much easier.

that should make Solo Onslaught much easier.

2 hours ago, smokednin said:

DE have shown before that they do want all players to enjoy the game, they want all of their frames to be viable, and that they don't actually like cheese builds. The part that confuses me though is why they even made it this way to begin with...

well, they've said that repeatedly, however the game has always and forever encouraged the exact opposite.

Edited April 29, 2018 by taiiat

[Pitiful]

Problem: There is no incentive for progressing as far as you can in onslaught.

Solution 1:The easiest solution for this is to add ascetic rewards for those based on your score in relation to all who have attempted it that week or season (this must reset regularly). Everyone should get an ascetic item (illustrating "rank" achieved) but the better you preform relative to the community will yield a rare thing i.e. top 1% get Plat, 10%- gold, 25%-silver, 50%, 80%, 100%.

Solution 2: A better solution would be to allow the player to get more rewards for staying longer, this can be done in three ways.
-Removing the less wanted rewards, this may not be good though coz you never know what reward the player is trying to farm.
-Double the drops the higher you go. A, A, B, C then AA, AA, BB, CC then AAA, AAA, BBB, CCC
-My Fave:You will get more drops over time and reduce the total time needed (it becomes a test of skill not endurance). To do this the time taken to proceed to the next level should be significantly reduced as the levels get harder. This means over time a player can experience harder content and will receive rewards at a faster rate as he will pass through the AABC rotations faster at latter levels. It will no longer be worth him resetting the instance(restarting mission) because he will need to wait out the time taken at low difficulties again.

(maybe both solutions can be implemented)

Edited April 29, 2018 by Pitiful

[nexus25]

The reward tables in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught needs to be more adjusted, especially in rotation C. the common drop table rewards are totally not balanced with the uncommon and the rare rewards at all. 
Reduce the Common drop rewards by 1%
Increase the Uncommon drop rewards by 2%
Increase the Rare drop rewards by 1.2%

Edited April 29, 2018 by nexus25

[LepraSK]

Happened to me just now, the reward was Khora BP, and after host migration, which looked like the game was stuck in loading and kicked me to the menus, i got only chassis. I have Khora already built, so no harm done, but this sucks anyway.