So word has it a Nerf to Saryn is coming. Surprise...

[AuroraSonicBoom]

1 hour ago, MattM01 said:

If that really is D.E.'s logic, then there are going to be a lot of frames that are going to be getting re worked then nerfed after the re work. I hope that does not have a bad outcome for D.E.. I honestly like the game and I posted this not to bash D.E. at all.

They said it time and time again. Low or repetitive input playstyles(if they're effective) are not something hey want, for obvious reasons. One doesn't make you play the game, the other burns out out just like doing the same mission type over and over.

[RogueVoxel]

10 hours ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

Wow, if you probably wouldn't have sodium problems you would have understood what I meant.

I think I'll check back tomorrow waiting that you pull your head out of your sphincter to read again what I typed once you have cleared all the feces in your eyes.

Whats with all these toxic ps4 players lately? 

Also :

Edited May 20, 2018 by RogueVoxel

[GinKenshin]

2 minutes ago, RogueVoxel said:

Whats with all these toxic ps4 players lately? 

Also :

glad I'm not the only one that noticed xd

[CupcakesMoo]

3 minutes ago, RogueVoxel said:

Whats with all these toxic ps4 players lately? 

Also :

Welcome to GD. Also stop asking for both nerfs and buffs. 

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, MattM01 said:

If that really is D.E.'s logic, then there are going to be a lot of frames that are going to be getting re worked then nerfed after the re work. I hope that does not have a bad outcome for D.E.. I honestly like the game and I posted this not to bash D.E. at all.

Yes, DE is going to look at every frame with this playstyle. Better this than being forced to account for these broken builds when designing future content, new players being forced to use those builds to play future content, reinforcing a bad feedback loop.

[CupcakesMoo]

Nerf players not frames. 

[Ventura_Highway]

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one to notice just how fickle the forums are.  You hit it right on the head with this post PeterC3.  

I'm going to point out that pure direct democracies are very rare as far as governments go. Mobs are not very constrctively productive, I believe.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Until DE gives in to the fact that the current mission levels are too low, or that their enemies are too weak, things will get buffed and nerfed endlessly, yet never complete. It's the whack-a-mole effect. I talk about it all the time.

Anything with more than 10m range and a sneeze for damage can "cheese" warframe. What is cheese really though? Is it the most powerful tactic used against enemies far below its station? Well, there will always be a "most powerful tactic" in game and as long as enemies remain far below our station, nothing will be removed, merely the "cheese" will change form. Until this high kill potential tactic is challenged by a hard to kill enemy EHp-wise, where these tactics are no longer cheesy, but rather they are balanced to their level, nothing will change.

Cheese in any other game has a far different meaning and i feel like that meaning is lost here. Cheesing a mission involves using OP glitches and bugs like Jordas Verdict's map hole that allowed you to skip whole sections of the raid/trial, or the old exploit of Rage+Quick Thinking, which granted immortality way back in the day. Correct the terminology. Meta is popular, cheese is exploit, too strong is OP, and a powerful tactic used well below its station is out of place.

Edited May 20, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Word has it players will move to another cheese tactic

[CupcakesMoo]

Just now, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Word has it players will move to another cheese tactic

Exactly. May as well nerf everything into a JRPG. 

[trst]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Until DE gives in to the fact that the current mission levels are too low, or that their enemies are too weak, things will get buffed and nerfed endlessly, yet never complete. It's the whack-a-mole effect. I talk about it all the time.

Anything with more than 10m range and a sneeze for damage can "cheese" warframe. What is cheese really though? Is it the most powerful tactic used against enemies far below its station? Well, there will always be a "most powerful tactic" in game and as long as enemies remain far below our station, nothing will be removed, merely the "cheese" will change form. Until this high kill potential tactic is challenged by a hard to kill enemy EHp-wise, where these tactics are no longer cheesy, but rather they are balanced to their level, nothing will change.

Cheese in any other game has a far different meaning and i feel like that meaning is lost here. Cheesing a mission involves using OP glitches and bugs like Jordas Verdict's map hole that allowed you to skip whole sections of the raid/trial, or the old exploit of Rage+Quick Thinking, which granted immortality way back in the day. Correct the terminology. Meta is popular, cheese is exploit, too strong is OP, and a powerful tactic used well below its station is out of place.

The meaning isn't lost here, "cheese tactics" refer to anything that is very efficient while requiring very little input from the player OR things that are outright exploits. Even more so if the method is so efficient that it removes the gameplay from other players.

If DE hadn't been removing/reworking/nerfing these tactics then we would still see nothing but Simulor Mirage, AFK Mesa/Ember, Tonkor as the only primary, etc in every mission.

[Knight_Ex]

They shoulda just left Saryn alone in the first place, she was fine the way she was, except the molt turret, Im glad for that change but you could have easily just made a patch for that, this entire rework was unnecessary on the grounds Saryn was too "difficult" a frame to learn for new players....awww...muffin was learning to string 3 skills together too hard for you?

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, trst said:

The meaning isn't lost here, "cheese tactics" refer to anything that is very efficient while requiring very little input from the player OR things that are outright exploits.

I thought it referred to how you applied grated cheese on your spaghetti.

[CupcakesMoo]

Cheese Tactics is the method of smoking mozerella with hay to then sell it back for twice the price. 

[Knight_Ex]

monterey jack for me pls

[(PSN)Crixus044]

18 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Cheese Tactics is the method of smoking mozerella with hay to then sell it back for twice the price. 

That's OP. Must nerf.

U25 Patch Note- Hay Rework 5.0: totally not related to use with cheese, we've reworked hay for better user experience. Hay now becomes nerf noodles when ignited. GG players.

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Can't nerf Spores. It's already useless as it is. ANYTHING they do to Spores would be an improvement. Up to and including removing the ability, heh.

Toxic Lash nerf? Not unless I missed some meta to make it OP. Decent addition to all weapons, but limited time to require recast constantly. In my opinion, still not a "valued" ability, except in certain tactical situations (like all melee in OS ESO).

 

You explained really well here why you think spores are useless. You simply have no clue how to work with spores+lash. Spores+lash makes for a really strong combo in any type of mission. It isnt a "certain tactical situations" skill. It is the bread and butter of spore spreading since the rework. No lash means you need to aim at the spores to make them spread, with lash you just shoot wherever at a target and each hit makes a spore spread.

Also regarding the topic in general, it will just be a rebalance of how spores work so Saryn doesnt stay as an afk turret in onslaught. It wont be a nerf.

Saryn is currently pretty spot on in any content except ESO.

[DrakoKnight48]

5 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Her kit encouraged standing in a spot and repeating the same button presses.

Now her kit encourages standing in a spot and not even doing anything anymore.

🤔

Correction, you can spread your spores and kill stuff while your spores are doing damage all around you. It's up to the person on whether they wanna stand in one spot anymore. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

3 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

Correction, you can spread your spores and kill stuff while your spores are doing damage all around you. It's up to the person on whether they wanna stand in one spot anymore. 

Didn't say you couldn't. It's about the possibility of doing the mission while being afk/not having to do any inputs. Nobody needed to use coptering, but it quickly spread to the point where it was ab/used by a large percentage of the player base. That's still an issue.

[rune_me]

19 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Didn't say you couldn't. It's about the possibility of doing the mission while being afk/not having to do any inputs. Nobody needed to use coptering, but it quickly spread to the point where it was ab/used by a large percentage of the player base. That's still an issue.

Not even close to as much as before, because now at least you have to kill some enemies with toxic lash to pop spores to spread them effectively. You can't just rely on your molt to do it and cast spores over and over. You cast it once, then you have to focus on spreading the spores "manually" by killing enemies or targeting the spores with your weapon.

[Corvid]

7 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Jackipanda said:

She wasn't overpowered, ding dong.

Evidently, the devs disagree, and I'm more willing to trust their word over that of a gaggle of forumgoers.

[seprent]

7 hours ago, trst said:

I honestly don't understand the "nerfed to the ground" idea people have. A lot of changes meant to nerf things have ended up not actually being that big of a deal or ended up buffing it.

Simulor: ended up doing more damage but less over-time "passive" damage.

Chroma: functioned almost 100% identical in Eidolon hunting post-nerf and due to recasting being added you can retain the buffs without needing to self-damage again. He only really lost his insane armor rating.

Unairu's Stone Skin: everyone assumed the % to flat change was a nerf to high armor frames when the ONLY frame nerfed in EHP was Valkyr Prime (non Prime was unchanged) while every single other frame gains EHP from it.

Yes there are examples of things that were made almost useless but it most certainly isn't the case that a nerf always ruins something.

Far as univac goes DE seems to be outright against the idea and just don't want to add it at all. And making changes to Rivens that make them easier to get/roll just adds to the power creep issues we currently have.

skimmed though i saw the no nerf only buff picture but yea You just kinda summed up alot of the warframe community at-least on the forums and people in region chat clearly there are exceptions to it but alot of it is 

• Change=Nerf and over react
• Balance=Nerf and over react
• Revamp=Nerf and over react
• Rework=Nerf and over react 
• Nerf=Nerf and over react 
• Someone game thinks a weapon might be too strong=Nerf and over react
• Buff=Over react and want a Nerf then see related bullet to its outcome
• This is why we have warframe Bingo

Literally changing anything in the game = Nerf and over react. People are more likely to remember something negative then something positive But in the case of this game negative is some peoples ONLY mindset and way of thinking and will throw any method of argument actual or not to shut you up if you think against them so that negativity echo chambers and it becomes majority norm. We begin this cycle again more times then people replayed any of the dark souls games now if you been here since 2013 or before till now seeing that cycle over and over again is more annoying then um uh what could i find that is fitting? a fly buzzing around your head and wont leave you the #*!% alone?

the layers of S#&$ people complain about sometimes makes you wonder how do they do some basic humans needs like today i had to deal with a MR 20 in just a basic mission going off on a tantrum infused shout fest about how DE is worse then EA in that they release go out of the way to make broken stuff wait a few days then make it bat S#&$ useless mr fodder i swear if i saw the guy i would swear on the cross (not even religious) that he was foaming at the mouth also made me remember warframe has voice comms and made me now turn them off. What set this off you may ask? Some pub tenno with us asked me if the Corinth is good that's it.

 

[MattM01]

1 hour ago, seprent said:

skimmed though i saw the no nerf only buff picture but yea You just kinda summed up alot of the warframe community at-least on the forums and people in region chat clearly there are exceptions to it but alot of it is 

• Change=Nerf and over react
• Balance=Nerf and over react
• Revamp=Nerf and over react
• Rework=Nerf and over react 
• Nerf=Nerf and over react 
• Someone game thinks a weapon might be too strong=Nerf and over react
• Buff=Over react and want a Nerf then see related bullet to its outcome
• This is why we have warframe Bingo

Literally changing anything in the game = Nerf and over react. People are more likely to remember something negative then something positive But in the case of this game negative is some peoples ONLY mindset and way of thinking and will throw any method of argument actual or not to shut you up if you think against them so that negativity echo chambers and it becomes majority norm. We begin this cycle again more times then people replayed any of the dark souls games now if you been here since 2013 or before till now seeing that cycle over and over again is more annoying then um uh what could i find that is fitting? a fly buzzing around your head and wont leave you the #*!% alone?

the layers of S#&$ people complain about sometimes makes you wonder how do they do some basic humans needs like today i had to deal with a MR 20 in just a basic mission going off on a tantrum infused shout fest about how DE is worse then EA in that they release go out of the way to make broken stuff wait a few days then make it bat S#&$ useless mr fodder i swear if i saw the guy i would swear on the cross (not even religious) that he was foaming at the mouth also made me remember warframe has voice comms and made me now turn them off. What set this off you may ask? Some pub tenno with us asked me if the Corinth is good that's it.

 

I feel that her previous set up was fine. From what I have taken in from this thread is that D.E. is going to re work frames so players play the game in the style on how D.E. wants them to play. I see the logic from D.E.'s stand point, change the choices that players can make in the game by changing how the frames work. A loyal player that understands this will enjoy adapting to the continually changing styles and continue you to play and a less than loyal player will cut down their time in playing or quit the game altogether and play another game. D.E. has made such strides with Warframe and it is an amazing game for it being free so I honestly hope this kind of logic works for them.

Edited May 20, 2018 by MattM01

[Meneliki]

My opinion is this:

As veteran players, we have a certain 'feel' for the game, a good sense of what is. We are so attuned to this game that we can 'feel' when something is off, even if we enjoy it temporarily.

I am thoroughly enjoying the Saryn Rework... but does it 'feel' right? No. It feels too strong. I haven't actually seen any DE posts about a nerf, but I'm not surprised to hear it. My initial feeling when testing the new Saryn was that a nerf would be incoming. Again, I haven't actually seen any dev posts to suggest that a nerf is inbound but if one is, I'm not surprised. I honestly think that no veteran Warframe player should be surprised. Yeah she's fun, but it's too much.

Just my 0.02

[Dreadwire]

Yeah its so DE to nerf everything.

Im not surprise if they nerf it in the next patch.