Revenant Themed Warframe "Vlad" Feedback and Discussion

[Nendos]

ZERO criativity, all skills already exist in others warframe.

[Klokwerkaos]

After dev stream today we got a first look at the next warframe.

I have some thoughts to help prevent another primed disappointment like we got with khora.

First is a name suggestion "Vlados" pronounced vlay-dose.  Pays tribute to the notion of Vlad while also sounding vampiric and vaguely tenno-esque.

Next is cosmetics: not a fan of the beard, feels weird to have bearded tenno children, but ok.  Not a huge fan of the super Sayan hair eother, but this is what tennogen is for I suppose.  Get me a glad mask similar to 1990s Bram stokers Dracula and I'll be happy.

More importantly though, the nikana and the warframe energy don't match and it makes it look like crap as it clashes directly.  I might strongly suggest getting these two things to synch up.

Next is some thoughts on the kit.  I like the vampire idea and is like to throw out some suggestions.

Right now this frame seems to have a strong danger of turning into nyx and seeing about as much use from what I can see.  Since it isn't a damage frame it's already out for eso, so the only thing left for it besides solo play is team synergy so I'm going to male some vampire like suggestions that help this along.

First up is that the number of dudes marked is 3 per level of ability (up to 12 max) because realistically it's not practical to have more than that given the pace of warframe.

Next is that when marked in final stage of affliction they also lose 1% of total health per second (bypass armor and shield, true damage) and for every 3 dudes marked this gives 1 health per second regen.  Release with an augment that extends this to players within range, thereby giving him a team buff.

Marked dudes still need to be able to be killed but switch their color on the mini map to Orange to differentiate them from typical mobs on the map as well as with warframe energy color on the mob itself.

When dudes explode instead of giving health or energy, have them drop additonal health or energy (on top of usual drop) to make for synergy with nekros.  This makes the character a good candidate for endless kuva and thus gives them a reason for being.

Additionally, I suggest he be able to mark a kuva siphon to increase the timer by 30% rate as this would mean he can help suck kuva faster, which makes him additionally super useful there, and again gives him a game mode to excell at. 

This has the side benefit of opening up the riven market a little making refills a little more accessible to newer players.

Also would be good of not only is affliction immediately ended if vlados is downed, but also give all enemies a 3 sec melee only damage buff, this way there is a risk reward mechanic and while the frame is super survivable, it could make reviving them a little harder.

These are my first thoughts based on what I've seen.

 

Who else has ideas on how to male this frame super cool?  What are they?

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[NullSaint]

1 minute ago, Darkvramp said:

1. Yes we are, because what we have seen is insufficient to what the game IS NOW. Could they introduce content that that frame does well in, sure, but there is nothing he would fit into as an option or meta pick NOW.

2. no not every frame has to appeal to everyone, but the frame has to work, it has to DO something in order for people to WANT to use the new frame for other than anything other than novelty. Novelty wears off fast, and it is more profitable to make the frame something people want to buy instead of farm.

3. KILLING ENEMIES IS THE META. Many game modes are driven by the act of killing enemies, if you are not killing enemies, your not being a benefit to your squad. A dead enemy is better than a cc'd enemy, because a dead enemy cannot have a chance of hitting you back. CC wears off, death does not. Warframe is a HOARD SHOOTER, if your not killing enemies and being fast at that, you in the wrong mode/game.

4. She changed many times, and she still has no place. She doesn't DO anything that another frame either cannot do better, or simply AOE clear cannot do better. Shes Meh.

5. If what we see is @#$%, well guess what, were gonna call it that, because no one likes to handle @#$%.

1. So which of his powers, specifically, do you find inadequate? 

2. Not every player plays in a squad.

3. Spy missions exist. And you don't have to kill hundreds of enemies at once. There are bows and rifles with single-round magazines that are clearly not wiping out a ton of enemies.

4 "She has no place" and yet hundreds of people play her every day. 

 

[Oreades]

I wouldn't say counter to so much as perplexing because he really seems to be built around the same type of set and forget mechanic that they have been desperately trying to patch out of Saryn. 

Cause from the look of things you cast your thing like twice and then the game pretty much plays itself from that point onward. I mean I guess they don't actually technically kill each other outright but on any mission where you are essentially just waiting out the clock the new frame is pretty much double tap 1 to win. 

[TotallyLagging]

just my 2 cents

1 definitely won't be ideal for random groups where things generally dies too quickly. Also would be nice for it to have a small AoE instead of single target like Limbo's Banish. Also hoping that the damage won't be utter garbage because that's the only thing that sets it apart from Nyx's Mind Control/Chaos.

2 this could be either a really solid survivability tool or complete garbage. Hoping it has some i-frame for each stack so your average lancer can't just eat all the stacks with their Hinds. Also how will it interact with procs like bleed, heat and toxin? Will it eat a stack per damage tick?

3 looks clunky to use with the cast animation and it only going straight forward. Is basically there to enable your 1 because you don't want to wait out the affliction. Honestly this should also inflict the mark on its own, so you have the option of casting 1->3, or casting 3 twice. Shield/HP regen is neat.

4 expecting this to be spammed as a CC tool, basically Rhino stomp on a different frame. Unless you can't recast it in which case it's old Rhino Stomp. Feels rather uninspired but I guess it works so I'll take it. Would be nice if it inflicts the mark on everything too.

 

I'm honestly a little bit skeptical about it but... I guess I'll have to see how the entire thing works since it's WIP. This honestly feels like Limbo on release where it's too focused on one particular mechanic (Limbo with his rift, and 'Vlad' with his mark) without really thinking about how it works with Warframe's everyday gameplay and they end up being too clunky (or in 'Vlad's case - not even able to use his abilities because it relies on enemies living) to play. If the current design is to be kept, he'll need a more reliable and faster way to spread his mark. Definitely agree with Steve wanting it to be more Eidolon-y and less vampire-y.

 

But f**k it, I'm getting him anyway. Energy beards man. Just give me a greatsword and a large cape, paint them red and I can cosplay Gael.

EDIT : 

LASERS CONFIRMED. MAYBE. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by TotallyLagging

[NullSaint]

2 minutes ago, XxXNob0dyXxX said:

His point is that frames that are supposed to be teamwork-oriented actually make you work against your teammates and try to get more kills than them instead of going through together. For example, Harrow's thurible requires you to get the kills to restore energy. This becomes difficult with many nuke frames such as Equinox on the team, so you have to split away from the other people in the team to get the kills necessary for the ability to work. 

And my point with that question is that no one can explain his abilities because we don't know them yet. We have seen an animated model and heard vague things about what Reb wanted.

And as I pointed out to someone else: not everyone plays on a team, and not every frame has to be the keeper of Real Ultimate Power.

[Oreades]

Not sure what to do but I certainly wouldn't add any sort of risk/reward mechanic that could negatively effect the rest of your team. That's a sure fire way to put the frame in the running for most hated Warframes, right out of the gate. 

[Klokwerkaos]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Not sure what to do but I certainly wouldn't add any sort of risk/reward mechanic that could negatively effect the rest of your team. That's a sure fire way to put the frame in the running for most hated Warframes, right out of the gate. 

It really would be trivial I think.  3 sec is longer than it takes most people to get on top of your downed body, and if you are a tank and cc frame like this is, the chances of getting downed with your allies close by will be next to none of you are Mr high enough to farm the frame.  It's mostly trivial but makes the frame unique from nyx a little as well as offsets potential health Regen and siphon buff.  It just gives them a little tiny bloodlust, I don't think it needs to be anything crazy and really it shouldn't matter in reality being that there are many frames that can clear rooms in the push of a button.  I think it works w oth the theme of the frame too.  It's something that really only few people would encounter and additionally would be able to be overcome... consider how easy it is to down a regular mob, and additionally, if they habe already been having their health drained.  

Edited June 1, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[NeithanDiniem]

22 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

1. Yes we are, because what we have seen is insufficient to what the game IS NOW. Could they introduce content that that frame does well in, sure, but there is nothing he would fit into as an option or meta pick NOW.

2. no not every frame has to appeal to everyone, but the frame has to work, it has to DO something in order for people to WANT to use the new frame for other than anything other than novelty. Novelty wears off fast, and it is more profitable to make the frame something people want to buy instead of farm.

3. KILLING ENEMIES IS THE META. Many game modes are driven by the act of killing enemies, if you are not killing enemies, your not being a benefit to your squad. A dead enemy is better than a cc'd enemy, because a dead enemy cannot have a chance of hitting you back. CC wears off, death does not. Warframe is a HOARD SHOOTER, if your not killing enemies and being fast at that, you in the wrong mode/game.

4. She changed many times, and she still has no place. She doesn't DO anything that another frame either cannot do better, or simply AOE clear cannot do better. Shes Meh.

5. If what we see is @#$%, well guess what, were gonna call it that, because no one likes to handle @#$%.

1: Except your view of the abilities was highly WIP, already decided to be changing before they even posted the playback of the stream, and very well could entirely change how he plays. They have done this several times before recently with new frame concepts.

2: See above

3: See above. Also hard CC maintained is just as good as death particularly when you have AoE weapons or teammates around killing them while they cant do anything in response. This is particularly useful at higher level where you simply aren't able to kill enemies as quickly so CC gives you that time. Applying a universal argument of "Killing is better than CC" is absurd when killing isn't always going to be something you'll be able to easily continue. Locking enemies down instead of killing them is in fact a better alternative for some gameplay styles because killing is simply not required for everything. Hell, LoR played better if you CC'd enemies instead of killing.

4: Not every frame needs to do something completely and utterly unique to them. Trying to go that route will end you up in a dead end very quickly. Having just a few frames that particularly excel over all others at a broad aspect of the game is very much why those frames tend to get nerfs and other frames buffs to make their capability more balanced.

5: DE themselves already aren't happy with it, calling it out with that much vigor is frankly yelling at a wall.

Edited June 1, 2018 by NeithanDiniem

[Karixolu]

Animarium - Latin for Soul, and Control

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

1 hour ago, Genoscythe said:

inaros' devour marking is too slow, there's a lot of other examples for this kind of set-up requirement.

 

Devour isn't meant to be fast, that's his 1's job. Devour is a single target hard stun, for almost a minute, that can also be used to heal yourself or any other team member.

Sorry, had to defend mummy frame...

[(XBOX)The Dracoknight]

How about Fragment in Latin? Fragmentum or Excerptum. Considering Eidolon’s are fragments of a greater sentient. And he’s based on eidolon’s.

[Hixlysss]

I like the look of Vlad, he looks cool, he BLINKS, HE HAS A BEARD! All in all, awesome lookin'. His powers aren't exactly unique, his power 1 is basically mind control that can spread if you cast it enough times on the target...At least I donno if that's only how it works as some things the dev's said it would grow over time? If it does grow over time which it honestly should, there should be...some indication as to the 'stage' the enemy is in, as marked enemies do have a little thing over their head, that should change depending on their affliction stage so you know if they are a mindless wanderer, or if they are going to attack enemies to spread it, or if they will explode on death for health/energy.

His power 2...actually is unique, it stops damage and stuns the target that attacked you pretty awesome, but stunned enemies can have power 1 cast on them for free...I feel like we could skip this step and just have it auto cast affliction on them because during the devstream it was kinda hard to spot/hit the 1 stunned enemy among the horde...but all in all, I like this power and it should stay as is, for balance I'd say split the charges between duration/strength affecting them rather than being all strength or all duration.

Power 3 seems...neat? But from how it looked like it worked it just instantly escalated a marked target's affliction state from 1 to 2 or ect, it didn't actually 'mass afflict'. It's press 3, surge forward through enemies(Like tidal surge) and marked targets get bumped up an affliction stage...which leads me to think that affliction doesn't grow over time that we need to recast the power to make the affliction progress. I really hope the affliction is a "grow over time" status, that way power 3 can be a "mass afflict + affliction growth boost", or at least it should do...something besides just "progress affliction" cause then it's only worth using on a target you've afflicted, which...why would you use power 3 when you would just use power 1 on the target again to boost them from farther away? Honestly I feel like this power should work more like cloud walker, toggle it on and you become mist, enemies that wander into the mist get afflicted, afflicted enemies get their affliction growth rate boosted or increase Vlad's health regen.

And now power 4...which seems really out of place. I mean his power 1 is his go to power, affliction. Power 2 stuns and lets you cast affliction for free. Power 3 charge through enemies and progress affliction. Each one has something to do with affliction...except power 4. Now his power 4 looks...amazing. It's a fantastic power in it's own right, but as someone pointed out...why does he have all these other powers then? Press 4 and done. You press 4, enemies are asleep, run around with finisher damage to kill the enemies, if you need health you got rejuvenation or life strike, his power 4 is...well it has nothing to do with the rest of his powers and lets you completely ignore them.

I have a couple ideas on how to fix that. First and the easiest solution...Afflicted enemies aren't affected by his 4. Simple as that. This way your stage 2 affliction guys can run around and just spread the affliction among the sleeping targets and/or the stage 3 guys(Assuming the affliction stages 'stack' as in a stage 3 can do the things a stage 2 does and spread the affliction) can be killed and explode doing aoe damage to sleeping buddies.

Second idea, afflicting a sleeping enemy causes it to auto progress to stage 3. Another simple fix, it keeps the power in line with doing something with affliction rather than being it's own little thing. This also means players can at least use his power 1 instead of being "Oh, i'll just use rejuve or life strike, why bother with his other powers?". So, yeah.

Third idea, rework the entire power. His power 2 kinda stands in as "You shot me, now you sleep.", so his power 4 could be revamped(Ha, vamp, like vampire, get it? Ah...you can murder me now.) into what I call a "Stance". His 4 would be a duration power, with bonus duration on the number of afflicted enemies(Up to a cap perhaps), and it would boost...well everything. Turn his power 1 into a AOE instead of single target, Power 2 has more charges/stuns longer/auto cast affliction on them, power 3 could inflict slash procs on enemies caught in it. Something like that...while giving him passive life regen/armor while near afflicted enemies. Basically it super charges him and gets boosted based on the number of afflicted you have, giving kind of a purpose to his other powers, to boost his 4, rather than his 4 being able to bypass his entire other set of powers. 

What do you guys think? And yes, I know the frame isn't even out yet, but still feedback is critical at ALL stages. His only real big issues is I donno if affliction grows over time or if I have to manually boost it, and his power 4 can completely ignore the rest of his tool kit and is awesome in it's own right.

 

Edit: So...heard from twitter Reb want's to go more eidolon themed and the word "LASERS" is getting spread around along with his 4 getting the most changes, so another idea for improving his power 4~ ARM BEAM CANNON! Press and hold to charge it up by draining/killing afflicted enemies, the more you kill/drain boosts the power, depending on if it's going to be a single powerful laser like the opticor(Damage/Range for AOE Boom), or more like the arm laser where you sweep with it(Duration/Damage).

Edited June 1, 2018 by Hixlysss
New info

[Zedasfogueiras]

EDUARD

[---UMBRA---]

I think VLAD will face same destiny as Khora ( useless warframe ). He will be pure CC. But.... there will be no need for him because we have god of CC named as limbo. Unfortunately I noticed that the last warframes is a kind of useless beings because we already have more effective alternatives.

[Lakais]

Draugr could be an interesting base. Some parts of their folklore matches up like rising from the grave with wisps of smoke and being able to glide or move through rock. However a glance at the wiki does not say anything about mind-control but then again it does mention being able to appear and influence dreams. So, some variation of that might fit. 

[Klokwerkaos]

I put my suggestions here already:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/962544-first-look-at-vlad/?tab=comments#comment-9814923

[NullSaint]

His powers don't exist yet, so any discussion of them is fairly pointless. Reb already said that they are going to try to make him more "eidolon-y", so he has been seen for a grand total of 2-3 minutes and is already due for changes. Remember, this is also the first time Steve had even seen the frame.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

Khora only turned out like that because DE jumped the gun on damage rework and players wouldn't stfu and wait for her. And not everyone wants to run limbo and he does cause some altercations due to some of his abilities.

Edited June 1, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[Hixlysss]

1 minute ago, NullSaint said:

His powers don't exist yet, so any discussion of them is fairly pointless. Reb already said that they are going to try to make him more "eidolon-y", so he has been seen for a grand total of 2-3 minutes and is already due for changes. Remember, this is also the first time Steve had even seen the frame.

They do exist, we saw them in use. And as I pointed out, feed back is critical at ALL stages of development, even if the frame isn't released yet we should still work to provide constructive feedback on what we have seen and from there the dev's can choose to ignore it and be like "Well, they are just seeing it in use, it will feel different." or "Yeah, that's what we thought, we just weren't sure, let's see what we can do to improve."

[Raqyia]

Okay, so after getting that fate joke out of my system, I gotta go exorcise some more dumb references so let’s do it:

Baal

Sanguinius

Nostromo

Geist

[---UMBRA---]

9 минут назад, ShadowExodus сказал:

Khora only turned out like that because DE jumped the gun on damage rework and players wouldn't stfu and wait for her. And not everyone wants to run limbo and he does cause some altercations due to some of his abilities.

Yeah, because limbo is for skilled players. But according to the first look of VLAD it would require the same skills from players but it is not worth for it

Edited June 1, 2018 by ---UMBRA---

[---UMBRA---]

Putin

[Azvalk]

Some of these suggestions may seem too strong, but given its lack of direct damage, to be a good crowd control warframe we must not deprive ourselves of more control 😄
Also, all these ideas could as well serve to his future Syndicates mod.

His 1, it is intended single-target, I would suggest that it becomes a cone zone, like the 1 of limbo, if it is maintained, and that its cost is adjusted according to the number of target.
For example if it costs 25, the first affected target will consume 25, and the following will consume 12 each, but it will not affect more than 5 targets in this cone.

His 2, seems perfect in the state, but I would suggest a significant duration of stunning, and a drain of the health of the enemy, like a bleeding proc.
A drain that will stop if we "charm" the enemy by any means.

His 3, it is beautiful, frankly bravo, but I would like to suggest more maneuverability.
Being able to direct it if it is maintained, with a small additional energy drain depending on the distance traveled.
The speed does not need to be increased, it is above all a power whose function is to convert the enemy in stage 2 of control, I understood correctly, so to move with, is not the principal, but imagine 1 second the prestige he will have to move to an upper floor on a map of the void for example, moving in fog.
Another idea would be to make it able to cross the security laser, without damage, and without triggering alarm. Oh, and don't forget the invincibilty please ^^
( like tidal surge, of hydroid )

His 4. It seems very good to me, but I would like to suggest that the range is boosted by the number of enemies under our control around us when we use it.
Also, it is a circular area, but I would like to propose that we can send it right in front of us if we maintain the 4. This could be a very useful power to play stealth.

Sorry if there are mistakes in english, I'm french helped by google trad.
I have absolutely no idea if there is any chance that these ideas will be heard, considered, or inspiring, I propose them simply because I have long awaited a warframe on this theme, with this kind of aesthetic and that I would not want him to miss the little detail that would make it perfect.
Even without these ideas, I know it will be a very good warframe that will need to manage well what we do, and that's what I like.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Azvalk

[Klokwerkaos]

Vlados, pronounced "Vlay-dose"