Revenant Themed Warframe "Vlad" Feedback and Discussion

[Schoy]

"Vlad" looks great but his abilities are a little awkward for me.

I don't really know how to explain this, but It's probably his 4th ability which puts enemies to sleep.
It almost feels like I have to go out of my way to kill things effected by his fourth ability, like in defense you have to hunt
down things suspended in the air by a max range vauban, sometimes getting stuck in spawn and forcing you to move 
an extra 20-30 meters ( Extra, I know. But it does get tiring after a while ). 

Or maybe a max range khora, I feel like she doesnt kill them instantly and they're just left hanging there for someone to eventually
take out. 

there are other warframes like this, but is it possible to spread damage throughout every marked enemy? Or something of the sort? 
I just don't want to go out of my way and take extra time to kill something because my teamate wanted to play vlad.

Other than his 4th the rest of his kit looks good. 

[Vulharr]

chocula

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 hours ago, Darkvramp said:

1. Yes we are, because what we have seen is insufficient to what the game IS NOW. Could they introduce content that that frame does well in, sure, but there is nothing he would fit into as an option or meta pick NOW.

2. no not every frame has to appeal to everyone, but the frame has to work, it has to DO something in order for people to WANT to use the new frame for other than anything other than novelty. Novelty wears off fast, and it is more profitable to make the frame something people want to buy instead of farm.

3. KILLING ENEMIES IS THE META. Many game modes are driven by the act of killing enemies, if you are not killing enemies, your not being a benefit to your squad. A dead enemy is better than a cc'd enemy, because a dead enemy cannot have a chance of hitting you back. CC wears off, death does not. Warframe is a HOARD SHOOTER, if your not killing enemies and being fast at that, you in the wrong mode/game.

4. She changed many times, and she still has no place. She doesn't DO anything that another frame either cannot do better, or simply AOE clear cannot do better. Shes Meh.

5. If what we see is @#$%, well guess what, were gonna call it that, because no one likes to handle @#$%.

Horde*  not Hoard.   Also, Killing enemies is not the only game in Warframe.

First off, I think he'd be FANTASTIC at Spy missions!  Almost as much fun as Ivara!  Survival and Defense/MD too!  Think about it....Enemies can't set off alarms if they're unconscious, AND in modes where lots of enemies exist, like Survival, you can get the enemies to fight FOR you!  The fact that they're invincible is probably so you can hack'n'slash your way through the HORDES* without killing your newly brainwashed rensfie- Allies...

He's not a BEST option for anything, no....He's -AN- option, and one which I welcome for the sake of fun, and yes, novelty, as well.

I like 'im.  He ain't perfect, but this was only the first taste of concept.  That's all.

[Tyreaus]

2 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Well from the preview he has a power that seems to completely negate damage (he is more like an eidolon than the average sentient) for perhaps a set amount of hits or windows of damage. And at this point we only know it works for melee attacks. While not adaptability (which Chroma already does some what with Vex), he is possibly pretty tanky especially with all his lifesteal.

That's true. I suppose my main issue with it is that it feels like the Sentient theme is tacked on. When have Sentients ever gone the mind-control route or acted like vampires in just about any respect? Maybe Octavia's Anthem, kind-of sort-of. But if you took away the Sentient theming and just dressed this frame up like Vlad the Impaler, would it really feel any different? Might it even fit better? The Sentient / Eidolon theme just doesn't feel necessary or like it especially jives with the powers, particularly when compared to the theming of frames like Hydroid or Equinox or Mesa.

And sure it's just a theming thing but what about more Sentient-themed abilities they could use instead? What about something like an adaptation field that gives allies in range a 95% damage reduction to whatever damage type is accumulated after 3 hits, or a self-buffing ability that adds missing health as armour and missing shields as extra shield capacity with a little bit of regen? Those would probably fit the Sentient theme a lot better, but clearly don't fit as well with a vampire theme (compared to what they've got going now, at least), y'know?

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

4 minutes ago, Tain_OSkoom said:

 

I still don’t see how anything beyond “it comes out at night” can really link an Eidolon to a vampire. That also still does not address why Vlad has no actual Eidolon based powers.

7 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

That would break the lore.

DE have bent their own lore before. They could do it again if they wanted too.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

DE have bent their own lore before. They could do it again if they wanted too.

Not this one. Retcon this mean retcon the entire lore.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Just now, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Not this one. Retcon this mean retcon the entire lore.

The lore is a very big grey area. DE can easily make exceptions for things if they want too.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

The lore is a very big grey area. DE can easily make exceptions for things if they want too.

Again, not this one. The lore is clear. Void energy is poison to Sentients.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

16 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

My biggest concern with vlad at the moment is kind of the fact that DE took no notice of the feedback from ash rework regarding the marking system on bladestorm.... considering the issues it has with ash, using it on another frame kind of raises questions to me. 

Ash had issues with other players killing target before the mark too hold, gave some people 'motion sickness' and people just went for the 'wiggle to mark' because it wasn't suited to the speed that the game is played.  So they 'reintroduce' it with vlad where we now need to hit the same target up to two times in a swarm of other enemies....

If I'm understanding the devstream right I can also see it being as troll worthy as limbo, max range, long duration on the sleep ability when doing defence will drag out a mission.... also not sure I like the 'lay down' aspect of the ability either, would rather they stay 'standing up'

Oh and no idea how this is eidolon/sentient based either

 

 

Regarding use of Bladestorm marking system...When you're building a proof-of-concept, you tend to use what you already have at your disposal in the brainstorming process.  Doesn't mean it's what's sticking around.  Houses aren't built out of tongue depressers and toothpicks, but the concepts for their design initially might be.  That's all that's happening here.

The immortality to his mind-slaves is probably so you don't kill them while mowing down hordes.  Thus allowing you to build an army.  That's the fun of it. He will excel in higher level large enemy count maps.  That being said, yes, much like with long duration Nidus using his Parasitic Link on an enemy during a Defense and thus holding the whole Wave progression up, I could see this being an issue there.  I'm sure that's easy enough to bypass, however, with simple code changing the enemy into what the code essentially recognizes as a spectre.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

"Trash Prime." "The Unused Avenger." "MR Fodder."

Also seriously how do you give a frame a name like VLAD and not give it a 4 that basically does what Nezha's 4 does. 

Because Nezha already does it.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Was this to fit this imagined limit, or was it to give her an actual name/identity beyond the vague theme?

This actually was due to legal reasons, not character limitations. Dunno why the OP would think differently. 

[Urlan]

Since we Tenno are supposed to be heroic, or at least appear so and be inspiring while being fearsome; vampires are a toughy as they are usually pretty steeped in evil and selfish natures. I can only think of one famous noble vampire of value in myth personally, that of a Kresnik a counter for the evil Kudlak vampires. Think Blade basically.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

All I'mma say is my Mesa's loadout is already called "Wynonna" so I'm ready to go! lol   Seriously, I'm excited for this super creepy and awesome frame!  Will be my new Spy/Fishing/Mining frame!  Great for Defense/MD too!

 

[Tyreaus]

Based on what I know of the lore, the vulnerability to void energy was part of the design on purpose, so it doesn't seem completely unfathomable for the Orokin to make a new, less capable, but void-accepting 'model' as a Warframe during the war. Fight fire with fire, especially if you're desperate.

That said, I'll put it like I said in another thread: I don't like how you could dress up the frame in something themed around Vlad the Impaler and it would fit the vampire idea better than the Eidolon / Sentient theme. It's simply not the best fit.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Tyreaus

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

how about Stoker, after the  man who put Dracula at the forefront of modern pop culture?

I reckon it'll be something ending in -lyst, to keep with the sentient theme.

Great movie. Francis Ford Coppola was the director/producer of that movie. Bram Stoker is the book author. Anthony Hopkins played Van Helsing. 

Helsing? 

Vencard (Alucard/Van Helsing)?

 

[-QUILL_PETER-]

He's not supposed to have Eidolons powers, he's just supposed to be powered by the same energy. Even the Eidolons don't share other Eidolons' powers so again not an issue.

[--F--NerevarCM]

10 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Based on what I know of the lore, the vulnerability to void energy was part of the design on purpose, so it doesn't seem completely unfathomable for the Orokin to make a new, less capable, but void-accepting 'model' as a Warframe during the war. Fight fire with fire, especially if you're desperate.

Sentients were abominations to the Orokin. They hated the idea of sentient machines. They would never use that thing again, even for war, because that would mean violate the "code".

They did once and everything failed. They even had fear of sentinels because it looked like Sentients.

And DE said "Vlad" was bathed in Eidolon energy, that means the Warframe uses parts from an normal Sentient, not an "void invulnerable" version.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

32 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Not this one. Retcon this mean retcon the entire lore.

No it doesn't.  You're assuming Tenno can't use Sentient energy because Void is poison to Sentients.  That's a false equivalence.  A sentient will die (or end up barren) from Void exposure - you have no evidence whatsoever that a Warframe can't harness Sentient energy safely - just that sentients can't handle void energy.  

There's a big difference.  

And the statement that he's bathed in Eidolon Energy does not in any way confirm that he's made by sentient components... he could just be cursed by their energy... I don't know how you can clearly stated "sentient energy" and then "parts from an normal sentient" in the same sentence.  You literally made the second part up to fit your argument. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Hieropha. I know it's already the name of a Tennogen helmet, but eh.

[Tyreaus]

7 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Sentients were abominations to the Orokin. They hated the idea of sentient machines. They would never use that thing again, even for war, because that would mean violate the "code".

They did once and everything failed. They even had fear of sentinels because it looked like Sentients.

And DE said "Vlad" was bathed in Eidolon energy, that means the Warframe uses parts from an normal Sentient, not an "void invulnerable" version.

First, all it takes is a few desperate, possibly lunatic Orokin to design a Warframe like that.

Second, I'm pretty sure their fear over the sentinels is because they were living machines, not because they looked like Sentients (which is arguable in a few cases anyhow).

Third, if it is made of ordinary Sentient parts, then the frame should already be running into the "void is poison" issue. So already, there has to be some kind of workaround or caveat to keep things coherent.

Fourth, considering that the frame isn't released yet, what DE says isn't written in stone and they're able to change those sorts of things.

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

No it doesn't.  You're assuming Tenno can't use Sentient energy because Void is poison to Sentients. 

And I never said that. I said that Void Energy can't be used to power Sentient powers. Because Void Energy is poison to Sentients. So Sentients powers come from a different source of power than the Void Powers of the Tenno,

If "Vlad" use an external source of energy to create Sentient powers, then I'm good.

But "Vlad" use classic Void/Tenno Powers, only his appearence is affected by Sentient energy. Thats why his powers doesn't look like Eidolon power. And I'm ok with that too

5 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

And the statement that he's bathed in Eidolon Energy does not in any way confirm that he's made by sentient components... he could just be cursed by their energy... I don't know how you can clearly stated "sentient energy" and then "parts from an normal sentient" in the same sentence.  You literally made the second part up to fit your argument. 

And doesn't matter if he is "cursed" by Sentient Energy or made Sentient parts. if that doesn't affect his powers, then its OK. Because Void Energy can't fuel Sentient Powers.

If this exists, then Hunhow could enter the Void and become more powerful. Or a Sentient after crossing the gap would be more powerful instead of weakened.

 

The entire discussion is: "Vlad" can't use Sentient powers because this would break the lore. Thats why he uses "vampiric" powers and only the visual theme is Sentient.

 

[LSG501]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Regarding use of Bladestorm marking system...When you're building a proof-of-concept, you tend to use what you already have at your disposal in the brainstorming process.  Doesn't mean it's what's sticking around.  Houses aren't built out of tongue depressers and toothpicks, but the concepts for their design initially might be.  That's all that's happening here.

 

I know the 'artistic side' is likely to change, I didn't even mention the marker in my post so no idea why you are referencing that.... it's the mechanics of marking that was the issue with ash, not the symbol above the enemy....

[--F--NerevarCM]

7 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Third, if it is made of ordinary Sentient parts, then the frame should already be running into the "void is poison" issue. So already, there has to be some kind of workaround or caveat to keep things coherent.

The Eidolon have Temple Kuva. If he decays, he regenerate.

The problem isn't Void powers over Sentient parts. The problem is Void Energy powering Sentient powers. Thats why "Vlad" doesn't use conventional Sentient powers.

The way he is now doesn't break the lore, the way OP wants breaks the lore.

 

TL:DR= A Warframe using Sentient Energy to make Tenno powers = OK, there's nothing in the lore showing that this isn't possible

             A Warframe using Void Energy to make Sentient Powers  = Not OK, because Void Energy is bad for Sentients.

Edited June 2, 2018 by -SDM-NerevarCM

[Tyreaus]

2 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

The Eidolon have Temple Kuva. If he decays, he regenerate.

The problem isn't Void powers over Sentient parts. The problem is Void Energy powering Sentient powers. Thats why "Vlad" doesn't use conventional Sentient powers.

The way he is now doesn't break the lore, the way OP wants breaks the lore.

Yet I proposed a manner by which it doesn't break the lore, which is only one spit-ball of an idea. Another is that it could be a frame that uses reverse-engineered Sentient-like abilities powered by void energy in lieu of Sentient energy, or that has an in-built energy translation device (since void energy already is translated in some way, seeing as how Warframe abilities don't generally affect Sentients), which makes it less effective but allows them to work with a source of void energy.

By the sole fact that they were designed with the vulnerability means there are probably hundreds of workarounds that could be devised to keep the "void is poison to the Sentients" plot aspect in line yet give Sentient-like abilities to a frame.

[Raqyia]

Like if we wanna have an eidolon styled vampire frame, I’d want to say that giving him those light pillars and “wet spots” that make your bones hurt would probably be a step in the right direction. Probs just need to restyle them as huge screw-off crosses and pools of blood. As far as justifying other eidolon aspects, there’s that whole thing where drinking the temple kuva helped repair itself for a time, right? Perhaps that’s gonna be some kind of weird tie in.