Revenant Themed Warframe "Vlad" Feedback and Discussion

[VisionAndVoice]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I don't think they're releasing new frames just to have MORE frames, though.  Seems like, since the community as a whole has acknowledged "FashionFrame is TRUE Endgame", DE is putting out more "options" for us to play.  Not so much revolutionizing what they do, so much as the THEME of how and why they can do it.

Which is something I'm cool with. 

Wukong is using what DBZ fans would know as "nimbus", more or less, and so it wouldn't make sense to give it attack power.  If anything, it'd be more like Rhino's 1, or Hydroid's wave mechanic.  Regardless, it fits the THEME of Sun Wukong.  This frame fits the theme, more or less, of Dracula, not so much the newer action-movie versions, but very close to the original novel.

I do think it needs some retooling, but they acknowledged as much, and this is only a first glance.

As for Gara, I quite like her 🙂  She's fun and looks cool, too!  Very samurai-esque.  But then again, to me the numbers aren't as important as the fun I have getting into the character.  

You're overstressing the details while missing the main point.

[(PSN)KiDTooN504]

KAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      

Click the purple heart to upvote!

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

You're overstressing the details while missing the main point.

No, u  😛

[peterc3]

17 minutes ago, Raspberry said:

It's quite noticeable if you look at a name like Valkyr, which was shortened from Valkyrie, to fit that 7 character limit.

Was this to fit this imagined limit, or was it to give her an actual name/identity beyond the vague theme?

[Pizzarugi]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)KiDTooN504 said:

KAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      

Click the purple heart to upvote!

#TeamRaziel

Become my soul reaver, my angel of death.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[peterc3]

So what?

29 minutes ago, Besaird said:

obviously other frames have repititive skills like Loki and Ash invincible or Rhino skin and Nezha halo 

but here we have almost copy of Nyx 

Here are other examples where two frames have the same overall ability, but different applications. Despite them existing, this unreleased frame should be completely different, because.

31 minutes ago, Besaird said:

Yeap "Vlad" have unique feature but main skills features we already have in other frames 

Why is it bad in this case and not every other case?

[VentiGlondi]

Yeah, just like Inaros was a "better Nekros"

[Darkvramp]

1 hour ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Because you arent guaranteed to be able to kill enemies as quickly as an mass AoE CC can prevent enemies from attacking and thus make killing far easier of a task? The Meta is set by the players, DE can always alter the game and the Meta be forced to adjust to it. Hell they have been doing that quite heavily this past year.

that is not quite right. Meta is defined  by set parameters (mission obj's) that DE gives us and then we use the tools DE gives us to craft favorable strategies around the parameters. We as the community only take advantage of the meta opportunity that DE provides. we dont make the powers work, they have to work first so we can use them in the meta.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

bad idea to criticize a Warframe before it's even released. there's still plenty of time for changes to be made. have to say an Eidolon frame is somewhat interesting, I'm hoping that we might see some more Sentient weapons in the future. aside from War/Broken War and that new Odachi, there's nothing else; no sentient guns, even though they use ranged weapons as heavily as the other factions.

something like a rifle version of the Hystrix would be pretty sweet IMO.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

3 hours ago, Corvid said:

Because he's based specifically on Sentients in the Eidolon state.

I reiterate; he does not feel like a Sentient at all. Or an Eidolon for that matter.

I have not seen any Eidolon, taking control of enemy units, turning into smoke/mist, or making enemies fall asleep. I see Eidolons creating huge lightning storms, light beams and seeking missiles. Vlad has none of that.

3 hours ago, KubrowTamer said:

steve wants to make the powers feel more eidolony as what reb said on twitter so its kit may feel more sentient once final

The only way to make the powers feel more Eidolon is to remove them entirely and out new ones in. Eidolons are not vampires. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

bad idea to criticize a Warframe before it's even released

I saw the same sentiment on pro-Damage 2.5 threads.

If something doesn’t look/sound right, we need to call it out. I’d argue critcising Warframes we have actually seen in actuon before they are out, is better as DE can still make a lot of changes early in the development.

I’d love to see an Eidolon frame, but right now all we have is this Eidolon theme mixed with vampire powers, which is like mixing jam with pus.

[Darkvramp]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

bad idea to criticize a Warframe before it's even released. there's still plenty of time for changes to be made.

It is absolutely OK to criticize what we see, especially with what we got on the last frame. The criticism will hopefully make it better. We dont want the wrong changes to be made on something in progress.

If it comes out looking like @#$% and we the community did not take the time to tell the devs what we saw as problems EARLY in the development cycle, well than that is our fault.

[Firetempest]

They sit there and talk about how hes CC centric. They even mention a lot of their content meta is damage based. Am I the only one who heard them already acknowledge this? Maybe they will add some more CC based fun as all those frames that are out of style...

Edited June 1, 2018 by Firetempest

[Koldraxon-732]

Name-wise:
Is the following: A| related to Sentients somehow, B| A Tenno term for leeching/siphoning. C| Involves the term 'Revenant', 'Vlad', and the Sentient suffix of 'lyst'. Put together in a manner that works for him.

Visually:
I expected something more samurai-oriented, with Sentient parts adorned as armour.

Gameplay-wise:

From the way it played in the Devstream, as long as DE keep it's 1, 2, and 3, [PH]Vlad will be set for a health-oriented 'Super'-Rage build.
Mods:

Spoiler

 

Primed: Vigor, Flow, Continuity.
Rage, Vitality, Gladiator Resolve, Intensify, Hunter Adrenaline.
Exilus: Power Drift.
Aura: Energy Siphon or Corrosive Projection.

Install order:
Health mods first, or else the Warframe will not survive. Then fit Rage in as soon as possible.

 

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

I saw the same sentiment on pro-Damage 2.5 threads.

If something doesn’t look/sound right, we need to call it out. I’d argue critcising Warframes we have actually seen in actuon before they are out, is better as DE can still make a lot of changes early in the development.

I’d love to see an Eidolon frame, but right now all we have is this Eidolon theme mixed with vampire powers, which is like mixing jam with pus.

 

2 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

It is absolutely OK to criticize what we see, especially with what we got on the last frame. The criticism will hopefully make it better. We dont want the wrong changes to be made on something in progress.

If it comes out looking like @#$% and we the community did not take the time to tell the devs what we saw as problems EARLY in the development cycle, well than that is our fault.

I suppose. but let's just keep it constructive, because otherwise that's where problems can arise.

[Darkvramp]

5 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

They sit there and talk about how hes CC centric. They even mention a lot of their content meta is damage based. Am I the only one who heard them already acknowledge this? Maybe they will add some more CC based fun as all those frames that are out of style...

Like a raid possibly sure. When that content is going to come is uncertain (LIKE REALLY UNCERTAIN). So I'm not looking at what could be, I'm looking at what is. AND. HE. DOES. NOT. fit in the game RIGHT. NOW.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, it's important to bear in mind that DE can and likely will change Vlad's kit either before or after release. his powers don't even have names yet, so he's a very, very new frame. personally though i would've expected an Eidolon frame to be a large tank with considerable CC powers, rather than a version of Nyx with sleep abilities. still, I look forward to seeing what we get with him.

[Saturmorn_Carvilli]

I don't know have anything specific, but I think it has a good chance of beginning with the letter: D, J, P, Q, U or Y.

[Firetempest]

2 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

Like a raid possibly sure. When that content is going to come is uncertain (LIKE REALLY UNCERTAIN). So I'm not looking at what could be, I'm looking at what is. AND. HE. DOES. NOT. fit in the game RIGHT. NOW.

BUT. FUTURE. CONTENT. WILL. COME. AND. HE. WILL. STILL. WORK. FOR. DEFENSE. SO. WHAT. IF. HES. NOT. META. Is this how we get points across today?

[LSG501]

My biggest concern with vlad at the moment is kind of the fact that DE took no notice of the feedback from ash rework regarding the marking system on bladestorm.... considering the issues it has with ash, using it on another frame kind of raises questions to me. 

Ash had issues with other players killing target before the mark too hold, gave some people 'motion sickness' and people just went for the 'wiggle to mark' because it wasn't suited to the speed that the game is played.  So they 'reintroduce' it with vlad where we now need to hit the same target up to two times in a swarm of other enemies....

If I'm understanding the devstream right I can also see it being as troll worthy as limbo, max range, long duration on the sleep ability when doing defence will drag out a mission.... also not sure I like the 'lay down' aspect of the ability either, would rather they stay 'standing up'

Oh and no idea how this is eidolon/sentient based either

 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by LSG501

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Firstly DE, I want to say thank you for all the hard work on Venus and The Sacrifice. Really looking forward to these two and see what awesome stuff you’ve made for us.

That being said, the new Warframe “Vlad” is in an odd place. He’s Eidolon themed, yet his power kit has absolutely nothing to do with Eidolons, but with vampires. Why?

Eidolons are probably some of the most visually interesting (and visually stressful) enemies in the game. They have a variety of powers that are amazing to look at, my personal favourite being the lightning storm. But they are not vampires. 

My question is, why base the look of a frame on an Eidolon, then give it the powers of something else entirely?

Its really disappointing to see the potential of a Senient themed frame kind of being wasted. Couldn’t his powers have been based on the Eidolons as well? And what about his passive? Couldn’t that have been the signature damage adaption trait that the Sentients have? That would have been both awesome and interesting.

His powers are also far too similar to a bunch of other frames who are far better at their roles than Vlad is.

Please DE, give Vlad a set of abilities that actually fits his theme, not just update the animations/visual effects. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, Darkvramp said:

we are most definitely not in that frame of mind anymore.

What? The player decides how they want to tackle the situation and killing things takes more effort most the time. If you are talking public matches then its always been random because a damage frame pick is going to want to damage no matter how much a CC frame wants to just chill. But that doesn't make the better option alone. Honestly the easiest sitting missions are done with a Limbo just sitting around (with the exception of onslaught because you need to kill). Sitting on Mobile def? Limbo. Sitting in Interception? Limbo Squad. Excavation? Limbo. Defection (at least it was at one time)? Limbo. If anything CC has lost some of its edge because DE has made deliberate attempts to disrupt it (Mirage/Excalibur LoS, Hydroid range reduction, Vauban enemy limits, etc; probably Limbo eventually).

21 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

that is not quite right. Meta is defined  by set parameters (mission obj's) that DE gives us and then we use the tools DE gives us to craft favorable strategies around the parameters. We as the community only take advantage of the meta opportunity that DE provides. we dont make the powers work, they have to work first so we can use them in the meta.

I think this is a definition discrepancy. Yes, the devs set the parameters but "metas" tend to be player driven not dev driven. They also tend to encompass oversights in design that the devs come in later to control after the fact, to which the players just find another way to do it. Self-damage Trinity is a meta of sorts that is completely unintended by the devs that emerged from power creep and faulty calculations. Eidolon Farming squads have stricter requirements because they are set by the players. Whenever I've seen DE do eidolons it was Nezha, Inaros, Zephyr and Valkyr.

Another game meta that really sticks out is Destiny 1 raid Vault of Glass. Completely player driven. Persistent grenades focus (mostly warlock) and pushing Bosses off ledges. Completely unintended by devs but exploited by players. Was so bad they stopped the AI from running out of damage fields and put up invisible walls almost everywhere after. Really they became a lot more like set pieces.

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

How is giving feedback based on what they have provided a problem? 

I was implying that making judgements on things don't have the full information on is pointless. I also said, "You can advise DE to avoid situations" but that is about it. Some of those issues are probably very obvious to DE others might already solved in the kit itself. Some of your responses illustrate why I think it is pointless because you are making inferences off information you don't actually have.

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

Does the infection have a duration? Who knows they didn't bother covering that angle. 

Does it only transfer through Melee? Who knows cause they only tried it on Butchers probably because they wanted to show it as super great against super high level enemies and anything else would have melted their faces before they could have gotten a single cast off.

Does it have a cap? Doesn't really matter because if it does what is going to happen is that it will stabalize at whatever the cap is and as the infected die/explode the remaining will infect new targets. Even with a cap it creates a system that effectively self regulates.

Do they actively seek out targets? Yes they do..... did you not watch the devstream? They literally did that. 

Does the damage skill block ranged attakcs? Who knows but it would be kinda lame if it didn't cause out side of the infested only a very small percentage of the games enemies exclusively use melee. So if it doesn't do something with ranges its practically a dead ability. 

As for the Myst, eh it would probably be better as a toggle but it appeared to be a dash like ability. And I'm pretty sure they flat said that Sleep has no cap on the maximum number of entities that it can effect within it's range. Sooo I'm assuming no restrictions yet.

If it has a set duration isn't going to self regulate.

If it can only transfer via melee then you start dealing with melee pathing AI and increasing the window of danger.

But can they kill each other? If you need to kill to circulate the inflection it isn't self regulated, its going to hit the wall and stop until you act.

I did watch the dev stream and it was a super controlled preview. They didn't have to run across a whole tile and she never strayed far from them. They could very well be linked to follow close to him. If they don't have to follow him there could be a range where the effect just releases. And if they can only spread by melee they will actually need to wander but how far will they aggro? Like I said the preview already had them close to each other, that's not what I call seeking.

The cast of his 2 looked to give him 8 charges which will get decimated by range attacks it could very well be a dead ability anyway. Part of the reason another question being a window and moddable came up.

It did look like a dash, yes.

I'm not talking about the number of enemies. I am talking about waking them. It looked to have a duration. Will they wake up at 50% health loss?

My point is we know a handful of surface level interactions but as you illustrated we don't know a lot of specifics. It makes it harder to give useful feedback without some of this information.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

how about Stoker, after the  man who put Dracula at the forefront of modern pop culture?

I reckon it'll be something ending in -lyst, to keep with the sentient theme.

[Tain_OSkoom]

 

[--F--NerevarCM]

That would break the lore. One thing is to be adorned in Sentient bones and energy. Other thing is use Sentient powers that only Sentients can use, especially if the Tenno needs to use Void Energy to use Sentient Powers. And that doesn't make sense.