Revenant Themed Warframe "Vlad" Feedback and Discussion

[ZodiacShinryu]

53 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

My personal gripe is that the frame seems to be sentient-based but doesn't make use of the sentients' signature adaptability.

Well from the preview he has a power that seems to completely negate damage (he is more like an eidolon than the average sentient) for perhaps a set amount of hits or windows of damage. And at this point we only know it works for melee attacks. While not adaptability (which Chroma already does some what with Vex), he is possibly pretty tanky especially with all his lifesteal.

20 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

3. KILLING ENEMIES IS THE META. Many game modes are driven by the act of killing enemies, if you are not killing enemies, your not being a benefit to your squad. A dead enemy is better than a cc'd enemy, because a dead enemy cannot have a chance of hitting you back. CC wears off, death does not. Warframe is a HOARD SHOOTER, if your not killing enemies and being fast at that, you in the wrong mode/game.

Except when it is not. In the game modes where you are required to kill, sure. In other game modes it is not so simple. Depending on the frame composition in the mission it can be better just to leave them alone. Back in the days of Blind Mirage killing enemies was bad. There is a limit to the number of active enemies in the map if you CC them all and you have abilities that can refresh that CC easily and continuously you can just remove the enemies that way and only have to deal with the objective timer.

In Mirages case on interception or mobile def in particular killing the enemies meant a new one would respawn somewhere that could be stronger unit and able to strike, forcing another Prism (not that it was a particular problem overall because it was simple). At worst, the spawn was at an unattended point that they retake costing you time. CC Banshee worked similar. And the concept was partially exploited during the defector event.

15 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I wouldn't say counter to so much as perplexing because he really seems to be built around the same type of set and forget mechanic that they have been desperately trying to patch out of Saryn. 

Cause from the look of things you cast your thing like twice and then the game pretty much plays itself from that point onward. I mean I guess they don't actually technically kill each other outright but on any mission where you are essentially just waiting out the clock the new frame is pretty much double tap 1 to win. 

This is the problem with having such early feedback. You can advise DE to avoid situations but we don't actually know what going on entirely. We don't know how his powers interact at all with the rest of the game.

Does this "inflection" have a duration? Does it only transfer through melee? Is the transfer limited to so many times? How big is the "taunt" effect of the inflected? Do they actively seek out targets? Is there a range? Does his damage negation skill block and stun ranged attacks? Is the negation counter moddable? Is it hit based or windowed? Is it recastable? Is the mist a toggle? Can you control the movement? Is it stealthed? Does his sleep AoE have any other restrictions like Equinox or Ivara?

None of that was shown. And there are likely more questions than that. As for relations to Saryn I don't know. I mean there is a potential for a CC like version of Spores though honestly I think hell have the Nidus problem where the rest of his squad can/will make the mechanic useless.

[Klokwerkaos]

Super love the notion of fractional bonus from enemy kills in range.  Even if it's like 20% that's amaze.

[paul5473]

I feel the name should be Darius which means he possesses 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, ---UMBRA--- said:

Yeah, because limbo is for skilled players. But according to the first look of VLAD it would require the same skills from players but it is not worth for it

Limbo isn't that hard to play 😕. And as seen with the others you're basing judgment on what?

Edited June 1, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[Vilemyre]

1 hour ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Short version - Its Nyx killer. Well Nyx, join Valkyr in "forgoten frames" club

Valkyr? Forgotten?

Nobody forgets those assests, Tenno.

[Darkvramp]

30 minutes ago, NullSaint said:

1. So which of his powers, specifically, do you find inadequate? 

2. Not every player plays in a squad.

3. Spy missions exist. And you don't have to kill hundreds of enemies at once. There are bows and rifles with single-round magazines that are clearly not wiping out a ton of enemies.

4 "She has no place" and yet hundreds of people play her every day. 

 

1. his one requires not one cast but 2 casts to make the ability spread. his 2 runs on charges they showed him having 5 changes, in a game with 100 enemies on screen, thats way too low. his 3 seem so completely average, and it does not deal any damage. his 4 looks like great cc, but i smell the bug stink on it already,  i foretell a lot of t poseing, falling through the map, and not exploding on death.

2. the argument applies, a dead enemy cannot HIT YOU. CC'd enemies have the potential to.

3. i said " you in the wrong mode/game. " spy missions are an exception to the kill everything rule, but there are frames for that game mode, and he is not one of them.

4. Yea not as many as you may think, because she is a new frame, from a endgame mode, that many people agree is not worth the effort to get at this time. also will you see her in use in the game in the future anywhere? what does she do that makes her valuable that other frames cannot do better or faster, or more efficiently? she has novelty ill give her that. Not much else to bring to the table though.

 

[Morgana_Arcana]

Baal would be pretty neat actually.

[nullvortex]

Sava, after the most well known vampire in Serbia, Sava Savanovic.

Reason being with the Balkans being the birthplace of vampires as a concept I think it's a nice fit.

Edited June 1, 2018 by nullvortex
Clarification

[Vilemyre]

The only question I have is how will he fit into Lore? And whats his interaction with Gara like in that lore? Gara was a eidolon killer and he was a frame build from eidolons.

I'm sure there has to be a slight dislike between them both despite being tenno and all tenno fight together.

Was he made from defeated sentients to make a superweapon of sorts to take down eidolons before Gara? Or was he an afterthought?

 

[Wolfdoggie]

He got small but decent upper body muscles. Dunno why DE likes to carve out male Warframe's ab muscles though. I hope he has enough core strength to survive combat.

[Raqyia]

Just when I think I’ve finally thought of enough, got a couple more things to throw

-naming him after the Europa Nodes because those are all spooky scary demons n stuff

-Ghast

-Willo (Wisp)

-(Insert clever usage of Hitodama here because I’m drawing blanks)

[Oreades]

42 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

It really would be trivial I think.  3 sec is longer than it takes most people to get on top of your downed body, and if you are a tank and cc frame like this is, the chances of getting downed with your allies close by will be next to none of you are Mr high enough to farm the frame.  It's mostly trivial but makes the frame unique from nyx a little as well as offsets potential health Regen and siphon buff.  It just gives them a little tiny bloodlust, I don't think it needs to be anything crazy and really it shouldn't matter in reality being that there are many frames that can clear rooms in the push of a button.  I think it works w oth the theme of the frame too.  It's something that really only few people would encounter and additionally would be able to be overcome... consider how easy it is to down a regular mob, and additionally, if they habe already been having their health drained.  

See theres the thing if it's trivial then there isn't really a risk is there? If it's trivial there really isn't any reason to add it. 

The other issue is it isn't normal mobs that are going to be a potential problem it's the Sortie+ mobs that suddenly decide to have supercharged melee weapons. And yes they might have killed someone with bullets just the same but that isn't how the person being killed is going to see it. They are going to see "That stupid frame and it's stupid power got me killed". So all having something akin to the whole "lose control of your minions and they gain a melee damage buff for a few seconds" does is draw a giant target on the frame for people to hate on.

[Darkvramp]

7 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Except when it is not. In the game modes where you are required to kill, sure. In other game modes it is not so simple. Depending on the frame composition in the mission it can be better just to leave them alone. Back in the days of Blind Mirage killing enemies was bad. There is a limit to the number of active enemies in the map if you CC them all and you have abilities that can refresh that CC easily and continuously you can just remove the enemies that way and only have to deal with the objective timer.

In Mirages case on interception or mobile def in particular killing the enemies meant a new one would respawn somewhere that could be stronger unit and able to strike, forcing another Prism (not that it was a particular problem overall because it was simple). At worst, the spawn was at an unattended point that they retake costing you time. CC Banshee worked similar. And the concept was partially exploited during the defector event.

we are most definitely not in that frame of mind anymore. CC used to be king because a warframe's damage was so low. Now that's not the case. Also what I dont think  people are getting is that the game is going to continue in this killing is the meta direction. So when frames come out that dont easily facilitate, or even impend that meta, than they are going to fall flat, or outright fail. Besides, a dead enemy is the ultimate CC, it cant hurt you or your team, and its permanent. Why do I need to actually CC an enemy if its just dead?

[nullvortex]

Seibatsu: Meaning subjegation and conquest in japanese.

[Wolfdoggie]

Indalecio 

[Raqyia]

1 minute ago, nullvortex said:

Seibatsu: Meaning subjegation and conquest in japanese.

>implying they won’t do 

“Konku(esto)” the Japanese pronunciation of Conquest

[Mr.SpookSpook]

Patchwork
Cuz he is a patchwork of other frames we already have...

[Synpai]

2 hours ago, seprent said:

-snip-

2 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

-snip-

2 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:

-snip-

To Those It May Concern: While Vlad did contribute to my concerns about Pseudo-cooperation in Warframe, he is by far not the center of it hence:

1. The rest of the title outside of "Vlad"

2. Some of the other warframes listed (Nidus, Valkyr and Harrow)

3. The point that as a team, we shouldn't be competing with one another to maintain our buffs. Would Nekros be usable if he could only Desecrate enemies HE killed?

Not to mention I did a video pseudo-cooperation in Warframe in September of last year.

Spoiler

 

 

 

1 hour ago, NullSaint said:

And as I pointed out to someone else: not everyone plays on a team, and not every frame has to be the keeper of Real Ultimate Power.

Last I checked Warframe is a Coop-third person shooter. To say a frame should be designed around solo play is just kind of...confusing. I'm not expecting every warframe to nuke the map, I'm expecting them to have a role that they can fulfill without butting heads with their teammates.

This wasn't about whether or not I liked the frame. I'm aware of what it means to be W.I.P. which is why the point I was trying to discuss wasn't hinging on "Vlad" but of what I saw in the style of abilities. (Honestly, I WANT to play him from aesthetics alone but as Khora has shown, that's only half the battle.) I'm not driving 20 extra minutes to shop at a brand new store when there's already grocery store nearby that already has everything I need (it's an incredibly relevant metaphor).

 

Limbo is on par with that ability design. He can screw people over (through no fault of his own) just as much as people can screw him over (because bullet capacity). I can't say honestly that I'm not _{a little} bothered when the team starts running all over the place to melee enemies 60m away (or whatever max range Limbo gets to; granted I'm Valkyr 9/10 and have no issue killing them). In some cases it just feels like it's making the game slower; heaven forbid someone just doesn't want to melee for the entire mission; However, I'm also able to find myself as being apart of the team and just watching my Hulu show as Limbo makes my life easy. 

I'm content with doing nothing the same way I'm content with having to do everything. Nonchalant is probably a better way to describe it, but I understand where abilities (like Limbo's Cataclysm) are not necessarily the best designed for cooperative play.

 

Hopefully I don't come off poorly, ensure I mean to reply with respect in mind.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Synpai

[Klokwerkaos]

9 minutes ago, Oreades said:

See theres the thing if it's trivial then there isn't really a risk is there? If it's trivial there really isn't any reason to add it. 

The other issue is it isn't normal mobs that are going to be a potential problem it's the Sortie+ mobs that suddenly decide to have supercharged melee weapons. And yes they might have killed someone with bullets just the same but that isn't how the person being killed is going to see it. They are going to see "That stupid frame and it's stupid power got me killed". So all having something akin to the whole "lose control of your minions and they gain a melee damage buff for a few seconds" does is draw a giant target on the frame for people to hate on.

First, bringing 5his frame to a sortie is dumb.  Use nyx instead, this takes micromanagement, and nobody has time for that in a sortie.  Sorties consist of bullet jumping past everything you don't absolutely have to kill, this frame is not destined for sorties.

Second, if player hate was a factor limbo wouldn't be a thing.  As it stands there are ways to play as a responsible limbo (ie minimum range, don't banish allies unless they ask, etc) and there are ways to play around bad limbo players, which is am essential skill if anyone intends to be any good at the game but the short of it is that it's not the frames fault, it's the player.  Additionally tho has a built in fix, wait three seconds before jumping into that group of mobs, or even gun them down since they are using melee for 3 sec rather than range.  Super easy fix and all it requires is a little player awareness.  That's it.

I can say I see your complaint as valid, I just don't agree with it. Not that it's up to us what goes in the game anyway.

[Korusagi]

33 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

He got small but decent upper body muscles. Dunno why DE likes to carve out male Warframe's ab muscles though. I hope he has enough core strength to survive combat.

Don't know why, but I think that Harrow and Nidus found a pair of Potara Earrings

 

35 minutes ago, Vilemyre said:

The only question I have is how will he fit into Lore? And whats his interaction with Gara like in that lore? Gara was a eidolon killer and he was a frame build from eidolons.

I'm sure there has to be a slight dislike between them both despite being tenno and all tenno fight together.

Was he made from defeated sentients to make a superweapon of sorts to take down eidolons before Gara? Or was he an afterthought?

Spoiler

It will probably explain what effect Kuva (human consciousness / individuality) had in sentients. Eidolons were severed from their hivemind connection because of it and sought to become "something more", according to Gara's legend.

This can also explain helminth (as an experiment with kuva + infested) that was used to create Nidus and make its prime possible, and possibly every frame, if "infested puppet" is taken literally and not just as offense by the queens.

But hey, The Sacrifice will probably explain... I hope... who knows.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Korusagi
spoilery-roo

[Klokwerkaos]

30 minutes ago, Vilemyre said:

The only question I have is how will he fit into Lore? And whats his interaction with Gara like in that lore? Gara was a eidolon killer and he was a frame build from eidolons.

I'm sure there has to be a slight dislike between them both despite being tenno and all tenno fight together.

Was he made from defeated sentients to make a superweapon of sorts to take down eidolons before Gara? Or was he an afterthought?

 

My guess is thst they arent thibking much on it because they are trying to rush out the frame and not build content around it.  Your questions are great thoughts though.

[BloodKitten]

i hear vlad, i think.

1, vodka shot, heal per damage taken while having your vision act up.

2, vodka molotov.

3. comrad, throw vodka at non robotic enemy and have it fight everything near it simular to rediation, but dos reduced damage to players and increased damage to enemies by 300%

4, drop a stolen nuke that some clowns stole from a PMC wearhouse (wonder who can get that one)

[Oreades]

30 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

This is the problem with having such early feedback. You can advise DE to avoid situations but we don't actually know what going on entirely. We don't know how his powers interact at all with the rest of the game.

Does this "inflection" have a duration? Does it only transfer through melee? Is the transfer limited to so many times? How big is the "taunt" effect of the inflected? Do they actively seek out targets? Is there a range? Does his damage negation skill block and stun ranged attacks? Is the negation counter moddable? Is it hit based or windowed? Is it recastable? Is the mist a toggle? Can you control the movement? Is it stealthed? Does his sleep AoE have any other restrictions like Equinox or Ivara?

None of that was shown. And there are likely more questions than that. As for relations to Saryn I don't know. I mean there is a potential for a CC like version of Spores though honestly I think hell have the Nidus problem where the rest of his squad can/will make the mechanic useless.

How is giving feedback based on what they have provided a problem? 

Does the infection have a duration? Who knows they didn't bother covering that angle. 

Does it only transfer through Melee? Who knows cause they only tried it on Butchers probably because they wanted to show it as super great against super high level enemies and anything else would have melted their faces before they could have gotten a single cast off.

Does it have a cap? Doesn't really matter because if it does what is going to happen is that it will stabalize at whatever the cap is and as the infected die/explode the remaining will infect new targets. Even with a cap it creates a system that effectively self regulates.

Do they actively seek out targets? Yes they do..... did you not watch the devstream? They literally did that. 

Does the damage skill block ranged attakcs? Who knows but it would be kinda lame if it didn't cause out side of the infested only a very small percentage of the games enemies exclusively use melee. So if it doesn't do something with ranges its practically a dead ability. 

As for the Myst, eh it would probably be better as a toggle but it appeared to be a dash like ability. And I'm pretty sure they flat said that Sleep has no cap on the maximum number of entities that it can effect within it's range. Sooo I'm assuming no restrictions yet.

I'll give you that squadmates could potentially mess with the ability especially since they seem to take "friendly" fire from Warframes, which if it essentially shuts down the ability you're going to be looking at thread after thread after thread where people complain that the whole skillset that the frame is centered around is all but useless in co-op. Which is it's own kettle of problems. 

[LupisV0lk]

Tepes. Because if his code name is Vlad, might as well finish the name.

[NeithanDiniem]

37 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

we are most definitely not in that frame of mind anymore. CC used to be king because a warframe's damage was so low. Now that's not the case. Also what I dont think  people are getting is that the game is going to continue in this killing is the meta direction. So when frames come out that dont easily facilitate, or even impend that meta, than they are going to fall flat, or outright fail. Besides, a dead enemy is the ultimate CC, it cant hurt you or your team, and its permanent. Why do I need to actually CC an enemy if its just dead?

Because you arent guaranteed to be able to kill enemies as quickly as an mass AoE CC can prevent enemies from attacking and thus make killing far easier of a task? The Meta is set by the players, DE can always alter the game and the Meta be forced to adjust to it. Hell they have been doing that quite heavily this past year.