Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[DreisterDino]

Just one thing:

People were asking for "Endgame" all the time even before this 2 Youtubers made a Video about the Content drought.

People who played the game a little longer already stated that they are either "just logging in for daily reward" or "Do the Sortie and log out" or "just run around in their ships for no reason" before this Youtubers made the Videos about the drought.

 

Plz dont get hooked on the Term Endgame. But take it as a sign that there has always been a lack of content you do for another reason than farming and getting a certain item.

There is mostly no longevity in the things you do, once you are done you are done. Releasing a Prime Frame does not provide a longlasting gameplay experience. If you get it in 1 day or 1 week, it doesnt really matter, once you are done you are done. Releasing Tennogen does not provide anything meaningful to the game.

 

So, you are right if you say it got a little more with the complaints now.

And you might be right that many of them forget about this in a week or so again.

But maybe this "outrage" was good in some way so that DE can see that there needs to be a little more.

 

And i also agree that if you play for example Fortuna for 8 hours a day for 2 weeks and then complain that there is nothing to do, maybe the game cant deliver as much as you consume. And thats not the games fault. The funny thing is, i made a topic about "rewards" a week or two ago, and about what is more important: Gameplay or Rewards.

Maybe half of the people who commented on that post were focussing mainly on rewards and said that if there are no good rewards, they are not gonna play it. The problem, if you only focus on rewards, a game can never provide longevity. So if you are complaining about the lack of content but still only focus on rewards, you make a big mistake.

[(PSN)nating51]

38 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

People were asking for "Endgame" all the time even before this 2 Youtubers made a Video about the Content drought.

^ absolutely true, and this is the major point, put in a down-to-earth perspective. Now that the thing has been amplified by those two youtubers, this has become istantly the new "major issue in warframe" and the majority of the community (even those who played maybe 3 months...) are debating about complete nonsense stuff ("warframe is dying"...LMAO)...

Edited October 6, 2018 by (PS4)nating51

[Wind_Blade]

Both, we are in a game where we are ninja space who can kill entire army alone but we can't beat a #*!%ing robot with a shield without getting down, jordas verdict was a good start, at lot of ennemy witth a "powerful lol" boss that you need to kill down with cooperation between teno (rip)

Edited October 6, 2018 by Wind_Blade

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 hours ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

you don't need to know how to sing to know that a person sings bad
you don't need to be a mechanic to understand something is wrong with your car
you don't need to make movies to understand how bad a movie is
you don't need to write books to recognize a bad book...
...list keeps going.... 
...at last you dont need to be a game designer or developer in order to judge or to find problems in a game

Great, I'll just tell the local Judge to retire because "you don't need to have a law degree and years of experience to know when an innocent dude is innocent".
Also, I'll let my local restaurant chef take the week off because I'm sure I can cook some complex dishes.  I mean, don't need to be a chef to know that good food tastes good.
etc.
/s obviously..

Experience is not a factor that should be overlooked.    Also, most of what you list is subjective.  My father-in-law thinks Carrie Underwood is a terrible singer...but she's got plenty of success and awards.  My dad spent a solid hour explaining to me what he "thought" he needed to get fixed on his car to save money.  He's WRONG, because the issue is an expensive fix, but he doesn't want to admit that truth.  Some people think The Godfather is an awful movie.  Some people LOVE the Twilight series....  

None of these rely on objective facts to judge from a good/bad perspective, but if you want to talk about perfect tonality, proper engine work, cinematograpy and lighting, proper story structure....these things DO all benefit from professional insight, and you would gain no benefit from the wisdom of amateurs and fools.

1 hour ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

you're like the best most recent exemple of white knight around this community, you make no sense at all in anything that you're saying and you don't understand that

i think you got lost on the whole talk, so lets try to be REALLY CLEAR
what people are complaining are things that the Devs themself acknowledged during recent devstream, that warfarme is having lack of new content for a while
Don't get me wrong here, warframe has plenty of content if you're still a somewhat new player, but there's players which have everything, farmed everything.
It's even a bigger problem that more and more players sooner or later are also reaching that wall of "what there's left to do?"  
Steve and Rebecca said that "it's not a problem to go play other things for a while" a company should never say something like that to clients
So we get back here, around the forums divided into
1- people wanting to discuss ideas of changes in order to make the game better
2- people who keep saying that everything is fine, that people should learn to wait, that the game doesnt need changes

You absolutely SHOULD say this to a client if it's true!   Warframe was never designed to be your one-and-only go-to game.  It wasn't.  The devs have said as much numerous times, in fact.  It's -an- option, and it's free, so you still have the $60 in pocket to buy that other game and play it while you wait.  Why is that a bad thing to tell your customer?

I run a business, too.  If I can't help my customer in the way they want, I see it as my responsibility to tell them as much and offer them a referral to someone or something else that can.  There's -zero- shame in doing so.

When I was a kid, and we got to the part of the game wherein there was a sudden lack of "things to do', aka "content", because we'd done everything and mastered all the "stuff", it was called "beating the game".   That was it.  The game was over, there was nothing else to do....save for maybe speed runs or other self-imposed challenges.

The fact that you now have further updates, which used to be entirely different game cartridges for a full new-game price, too, now available for FREE, and on a regular basis, be that annual or sooner, is nothing short of amazing.

THAT is why some of us "defend DE".  It's not so much that we're blindly loyal or whatever other bullcrap people try to peddle.  It's simply that we maybe have a different perspective on these so-called "problems".   I mean, I used to only get one game a year, MAYBE I got to rent one once in a while if we could afford it.   Now, I can play a top-tier game, for FREE, without a monthly subscription fee online, for FREE, and even get regular updates, some of them worthy of being sequels in-and-of-themselves, again for FREE.....Even if I only get one MAJOR update (because we need to be honest, there HAVE been numerous updates over the past few months.  Can't ignore that truth) per year, that's still huge to me!

I just think people are spoiled and want their steakhouse quality burgers with McDonald's turnaround times, and that just isn't practical.

Edited October 6, 2018 by (PS4)Taishin_Ishu

[Tsardova]

Power

 

Cause no matter what kinda challenge gets cooked up we'll find a way to ghetto it up and it'll just be a perpetual cycle of "I want more challenge" to the point where the only semblance of said challenge is through artificial difficulty....

[(PSN)robotwars7]

8 hours ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

BL2 stalker  or sniper Hyperion units

ahh memories. they were't that challenging IMO, challenging was was dealing with those bloody Surveyors and their constant hit and run BS, or fighting a Super Bada$$ Loader with it's 6 cannons and waiting about 5 hours for it to stop firing.

personally I could go either way, though if I want real challenge, there's games like Bloodborne and Nioh that provide. Warframe seems to work best as a full-on power fantasy IMO, and wiping out mobs in an instant brings me enjoyment. this is one of those things where there's no easy answer, because we're always gonna be divided on this.

[Zeclem]

while i do agree de has plenty of whiteknigts especially on this forum, they also has plenty of people who only bash on them without giving proper criticism at all. there are plenty of things that are very much excuseable. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

..and this whole thing is why I stay away from YouTubers. nothing but doomsaying and exaggerations. they are the internet equivalent of the mad person in your local town Square screaming about how "the end is nigh" and everybody must repent for their sins. all they do is spread hype or panic, depending on how the game is performing. droughts will happen from time to time, no tool with a camera setup and a voice that makes you want to self-harm is ever going to stop this from happening. 

just deal with it people, it will be over soon.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

XB1 players stop making meta-complaints threads 

it's fine, even though there's been like 9453748500 threads telling people to stop complaining, THIS one will be the one that gets the message through, I just know it! /s.

[Goodwill]

I consider myself a blue knight. It helps so the tears of my enemies don't stain the armor.

I will defend DE but I will not always defend their ideas. It's one thing to criticize an idea but then to take that criticism and leverage it into an unfounded criticism of an entity where we have no place or business in is another thing. Yes, we as players have the right to criticize the product and the game but where we start blurring that line is when people are trying to tell DE how to run THEIR company. I can assure you that if we simply stick to criticisms of the product, then if need be, DE themselves will adjust their structure internally IF need be.

[Loza03]

Hmm... I'd prefer they slightly up the challenge, just enough to make individual fights interesting. It's not a power fantasy if my foes aren't able to fight back.

[Goodwill]

While people are taking notes from Borderlands, I'm here thinking about taking notes from Tenchu.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. Then power to overcome it. Then Challenge. ............

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

Challenge.

Like others have said: Without it power is meaningless, and the game solely revolves around amassing more power.

From the perspective of an "endgame" player (or "vet" if you will, whatever that even means in this game): Even just a bit more of it would be so much more satisfying. We powercrept into a corner where it doesn't even matter if they throw lvl 99, 999 or even 9999 enemies at us. There are frames that can solo endless missions ad infinitum, only challenge is overcoming boredom and avoiding bedsores. Properly geared the game isn't even easy, it's hardly a(n action) game anymore. You simply push buttons and get stuff, going through motions, again and again. More like a IDDQD/IDKFA-fantasy rather than a mere power fantasy. The game is still enjoyable but quite honestly braindead beyond belief.

Given our status quo of infinite energy and the perma- room clearing / invisibility skills at our disposal no challenging game design is even possible anymore besides artificially bereaving us of said powers... But then what's even the point of that in a progression based game.

If we do want some actual challenge and engaging, dynamic (as opposed to completely binary) gameplay we totally need some toning down on both fronts, no way around it. Many of our enemies are equally broken but we hardly notice just for the fact we mostly only ever see em as some numbers popping up on the horizon.

I think DE is underestimating their playbase and are too easily impressed by its loud part frowning at even the tiniest nerf on the forums. To them seemingly Warframe really is nothing but a glorified slot machine and getting to pull the arm the fastest way possible the only priority. I'd argue even the grind would become alot more bearable (not that it's even that bad compared to other titles) subjectively if we were actually on our toes during missions, having to actually cooperate besides entering operator now and then and reviving mates who got randomly one shot while being completely invincible...

I wouldn't mind if they introduced a new "balanced" mode completely detached from the main game so the nuke happy crowd can go on spamming their win buttons all day.

I bet even they would switch before long, tho...

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

None of these rely on objective facts to judge from a good/bad perspective, but if you want to talk about perfect tonality, proper engine work, cinematograpy and lighting, proper story structure....these things DO all benefit from professional insight, and you would gain no benefit from the wisdom of amateurs and fools.

That doesn't have to be true. 

Remember Clerks? A complete amateur with no experience but lots of interest sold his comic book collection to make a movie, and revolutionized the small, indie scene in cinema by doing so. Undertale was made by an amateur player with a background in music and environmental science, but it was still one of (if not the) most critically acclaimed game the year it was released.

Sometimes amateurs and fools can create much better results than the professionals, if given an opportunity to do so.

[Kyoresh]

why do so many people feel the need to protect DE? No one hates them. People are giving Feedback, True many are annoyed/frustrated, but can you blame them? the last "real" Content was almost 10 months ago

[Medeucea]

Our individual Warframe' have mechanics that can make us feel powerful. The game play just doesn't support that level of play.

 

I.e Max range/duration Rhino Stomp for instance can freeze entire rooms for 20 seconds, but no one uses it because its easier to just shoot everything

Edited October 6, 2018 by Medeucea

[Atherlay]

I have played warframe for the past 2 years. In those 2 years of playing warframe I have grinded my way to a mastery rank of 19 and I have built up my weapons and warframes to a stage where I consider myself at a comfortable position of capability to play whatever mission I want to and at most difficulties. Excluding endurance runs.

With this in mind, I know the pain of waiting for new content and the arguments arising about update times and content development, disappointment in reworks and bug fixes, the list goes on. With all this arguing and complaining, I can't help but notice that people complain about warframe becoming "mainstream" or gaining "toxic players" that will "ruin the community". These same people have pushed me towards playing many other games which I am partially thankful for but still cause me great annoyance due to the overall result of this behaviour.

I believe LifeOf Rio Put it best in his video on the warframe community describing these people as a negative impact on the games development. The players referring to potential players creating a "Toxic community" are creating one themselves. Pushing other players away from warframe when they point out reasons for concern in the game will only lower the player base and cause less reason and resource for more content and more quality updates. Tying in with the players who complain about warframe becoming mainstream; I ask you, What is worse? Mainstream warframe, or no warframe?

Now that I have addressed that issue, allow me to address DE themselves (should they read this of course). I recall moments in time where you have admitted either on stream or in interview with content creators to taking your time for granted. Leaving some things to the last minute and rushing it out the door in overdrive. I don't claim to know what it's like in your shoes or what your workplace environment is like and therefore have no issue towards your area. But work ethic is still in need to be addressed. take the quest chains of harrow and the sacrifice for an example, where bugs or errors were encountered by hundreds, maybe thousands of players. and required fixing. content gets released "perfectly functioning" maybe not smooth but functioning. i'm not meaning to be aggressive if I sound that way. I mean to say that if it's possible to put more time and effort into these content updates when you HAVE the time, they will receive better praise and you may find them coming out sooner. furthermore, if you already find yourself under pressure from not HAVING time at all. I believe having small events and projects on the side to implement and occupy players and satisfy content hungry players may help relieve some of the stress and allow for ease of mind when working on the larger updates.

with that out of the way i'd like to be completely honest with you, As much as I do enjoy each update you push out and have my complaints in the share of hotfixes and reworks. Keeping the balance of warframe and the scaling of levels is pointless. You focus so much on keeping the capabilities of warframes below "over powered" so that not everyone uses the same frame and to prevent players from just highway gunning for the best frame in the game and blowing through the games content in an instant. when you do this, the hype built up on those warframes dies down and disappoints. I personally would like to see a change in the balancing system in warframes as some warframes are hit when they don't need to be. Chroma as an example, YES he is easier to access now that his prime is available and a Mastery 6 requirement frame but his survivability was hit with a "rework" earlier on just before word of the prime had reached our ears of being confirmed. this derailed a lot of interest held in his ability to tank and has reduced the warframe I could easily run endurance with to a frame I struggle to run endurance with. "small" reworks make a huge difference and I feel it takes away the enjoyment I get from having warframes and weapons that can demonstrate the effort I put into playing warframe. Please think more about how you want warframe to work as you release more content, because as you do so, it shapes the path players follow.

I apologise for any sinister comments made, I needed to vent and I really wanted to share a little input on warframe's development. there is more to be said but I feel this has gone long enough and I hope you all at DE will read this and understand what I am trying to say. INSTEAD OF BALANCING THE WARFRAMES SO ALL PLAYERS CAN USE ALL CONTENT, LET THERE BE A DIFFERENCE, IT WILL CREATE A GOAL FOR LOWER PLAYERS TO AIM FOR. A REASON FOR THE GRIND.

Thankyou for your time and let me know your thoughts, I understand some of these points have flaws and some values are estimated.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I prefer the game stay as a power fantasy.

There is endless grind, and I don't want to be rationing my energy usage for each encounter, or ducking behind cover between every shot. Enemies that take multiple head shots, or emptying a full clip into their body are not fun to fight (they're bullet sponges). Do you even know how slow and boring that gameplay would be? (I've seen this sort of balancing, and it's horrid... it's called Destiny1 & moreso D2)

Challenge = slow and careful, or die... at least that's what most people's suggestions would make happen. That's not fun.

The weaker individual players are, or the stronger the enemies are, the less fun THIS game is. (obviously, In My Opinion)

Maybe I'm just not "overpowered" yet... I don't delete rooms in the blink of an eye... I play solo. I wade into battle with my Orthos, slashing through grunts easily, but have to rely on finishers for the stronger units or it just gets annoying (especially with knockdown punches, I mean really?) I don't like using guns, so maybe it's the guns that are really strong, or maybe it's some frames that I don't have yet, or don't have the right mods for, that do all these things that people think make the game "too easy"... I just use my Inaros and Orthos. In higher level missions, I have to Sand-to-face a tough room and pick them off with blade-to-face, sometimes a few slow-as-molasses blade-to-faces. (I've only had enough enemies around to use his self-revive twice in 7 months) (I will say I haven't forma'd anything yet, and only have 1 maxed Prime Mod, Primed Pressure Point)

Now, if DE decides they want a paradigm shift in the "endgame" challenge of this game to cater to the "vets" who want "challenge", they run a very strong risk of changing the identity of Warframe. It may seem like a "good thing" to people who want challenge, but IF they fall into the trap of making certain rewards only available from this new "challenging" content, that new "challenging" content becomes Warframe. You  HAVE to do that content if you want to keep progressing (this game is all about collecting stuff and making new frames/equipment, so the moment you stop progressing because there's nothing left to get except the stuff behind the new "challenging" content, the game is over for you if you don't like "challenging" content.)

Currently, Eidolons are in this category for me, since I play solo, and just don't find the Eidolon fights entertaining from the video's I've watched. That gameplay doesn't appeal to me one bit (maybe because it's all guns and no melee) But everything locked behind Eidolon gameplay is essentially off-limits for me, and isn't even in the game.

So, yeah... I'd rather have a game to play, than a brick wall to smash my face into, oh, I mean "challenging gameplay"...

(oh, and the second I'm required to get into a group for some "team gameplay" - which is also heralded as super great challenging gameplay, is the second I go play another game... or write my book, or draw, or read)

This trap can be avoided if they provide these new "challenging" activities, but provide alternative methods of acquisition of their rewards (these methods could be less efficient, but still possible, and it wouldn't force people to engage with content they want no part of.)

 

Edit: Well that was disorienting... threads merged.
On this thread's topic, I wouldn't have posted at all...

Edited October 7, 2018 by (PS4)AyinDygra
stupid thread merge

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

9 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

why do so many people feel the need to protect DE? No one hates them. People are giving Feedback, True many are annoyed/frustrated, but can you blame them? the last "real" Content was almost 10 months ago

I think you are confusing pointless whining with constructive criticism. Majority of the threads I've seen about content or lack there of was not constructive in any way. 

[FollowTheFaceless]

There is no mainstream. You're imagining 😛

[Atherlay]

Just now, FollowTheFaceless said:

There is no mainstream. You're imagining 😛

I'm not saying there is, and i'm not stating that warframe is becoming mainstream. I am simply referring the the so called "Mainstream" and how players worry about warframe becoming part of it. which is ridiculous considering warframe is quite literally unique in a sense regarding gameplay as a Third person over the shoulder Melee shooter game with a randomly generated tileset map system and RNG based loot reward scheme to boot.

[Loza03]

Just enough challenge to make things interesting.

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

You need to remove the megathread tag. That's just for DE. There is no such thing as mainstream. Toxic players exist in every game and warframe is no different. 

[FollowTheFaceless]

8 minutes ago, Qwirkz said:

I'm not saying there is, and i'm not stating that warframe is becoming mainstream. I am simply referring the the so called "Mainstream" and how players worry about warframe becoming part of it. which is ridiculous considering warframe is quite literally unique in a sense regarding gameplay as a Third person over the shoulder Melee shooter game with a randomly generated tileset map system and RNG based loot reward scheme to boot.

It's just that period when devs trying to "bite" a lot (Fortuna and Railjack) and it's taking a huge amount of time to "chew" it. They will get over it and stop eventually. 

PS: I hope at least.

Edited October 6, 2018 by FollowTheFaceless