Considering Mesa prime is most likely the next prime, let's talk about changes to her.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

14 hours ago, DenoDagor said:

Her 4 is the only fun AND useful ability.

Completely subjective AND wrong.

1st of all she's been my go to "main" for 4 years now. I have a speed build for Mesa that utilizes max range for her 2. And a PM build. Depends on what I'm doing. 

Abilities don't have to be interactive to be useful. Mesa's 2, and 3 are vary useful. 

Her 2 buffs the team and jams weapons as well as stops melee attackers.

Her 3 reflects/defelects damage/projectiles back to the enemies. 

Her kit is plenty useful. Mesa is good just the way she is. The only change she needs is to her 1. 

DEs energy would be better spent on other frames, like Vauban, Wukong, Nyx, even Chroma. 

The only reason that DE makes changes to frames that are about to be primed is to help them bring more hype. Mesa doesn't need more hype because her 1 needs a tweek. She's hype enough. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)RPColten]

On 2018-11-17 at 11:27 AM, DenoDagor said:

And DE has been giving frames a little touch up when their prime comes out.

No they have not.

[Pizzarugi]

Why? Mesa's a broken press-4-to-win frame that deletes everything in front of you by pressing 4 and holding down the mouse button. What she needs, more than anything, is a nerf.

[Marthrym]

Well, her 1 is kinda useless, I agree. Her 2 should stay on her in my opinion, and aiming at teammates to put one on them should be how it works, it's not great that it jumps from teammate to teammate the way it does right now. Her 3 is basically a bulletproof vest, very useful, although it kinda overlaps with her 2 jamming weapons. Her 4 is one of the best in the game as far as I'm concerned, I don't believe it needs a nerf, seeing how it doesn't work at all on some enemies/bosses, and turns you into an immobile target in a game where mobility is paramount. I think that's why her 3 exists honestly.

I'd replace her 1 with something actually useful and make her 2 stay on her and castable on teammates. Other than that... maybe touch up her passive. They tend to suck on most frames.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

No they have not.

Actually, aside from Chroma, the last... let's see, Limbo got an adjustment, Zephyr got a rework, Mirage got a little adjustment, Hydroid and Oberon got reworks, Banshee had her Resonating Quake Augment changed, Saryn had just had a rework before, and a few more before that.

People were actually a little surprised that Chroma got nothing after the last year of releases and more had been given at least minor reworks.

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

Nothing, she is in a great place where she is

[DenoDagor]

11 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Completely subjective AND wrong.

Subjective and wrong...I don't think that's how things work, subjective implies there is no wrong option, just opinions...

Still it's the only ability that's different from normal gameplay, if you find it fun or not is subjective. But objectively impossible to find her 1 and 3 MORE FUN than her 4, because they differ nothing from normal gameplay, they don't change how you play, 1 is just extra damage and 3 is just extra resistance (the reflecting part deals negligible damage)

A case could be made for her 2 though.

11 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Abilities don't have to be interactive to be useful. Mesa's 2, and 3 are vary useful. 

When did I ever say that? I said her 4 is the only one that's both of those things, which is what all abilities should be. Why would her 3 need to exist if she could just have tons of armor instead? Abilities should do something that can't be passive, for example her 4, you couldn't make a frame that can't walk but has aimbot, so it needs to have a toggle button.

 

12 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Her kit is plenty useful. Mesa is good just the way she is. The only change she needs is to her 1. 

Exactly my opinion and why I made this thread (Also to see if anyone thinks something else could be changed and what, but my only real problem is her 1)

[Gunslinger]

Remove the damage cap from her 1 and change the passive to faster reload (+30%) on ALL weapons.

[ljmadruga]

On 2018-11-17 at 6:37 PM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Her 2 isn't a bad ability but could be improved, but its biggest flaw is that it's pretty redundant with her 3. Why have an ability to resist gunfire if you have an ability to turn enemy gunfire completely off? And vice versa. 

Shooting gallery doesn’t just counter gunfire; it also stops melee enemies in their tracks. Shattershield does not protect against melee attacks.

Personally, I’d like to see Ballistic Battery become an instant reload/team ammo generation while giving peacemakers a finite magazine. Ballistic battery would be free to cast while peacemakers are active.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 minutes ago, ljmadruga said:

Shooting gallery doesn’t just counter gunfire; it also stops melee enemies in their tracks. Shattershield does not protect against melee attacks.

The point still stands. Why have a move to resist gunfire damage if you have a move that stops melee and gunfire damage completely? The ability slots are redundant and could be used better so people don't have to rely 100% on her Peacemaker to claim she's a good frame. She's a half-decent frame with 1 great move, at best (same could be said about Chroma for that matter, as well a few others hehe).

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

30 minutes ago, DenoDagor said:

Subjective and wrong...I don't think that's how things work, subjective implies there is no wrong option, just opinions...

 

13 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Her 4 is the only fun AND useful ability.

Fun is subjective, AND useful is wrong. And I followed that with examples of why your opinion is subjective and wrong. Because her 4 is not the only ability that is fun and useful. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Why have a move to resist gunfire damage if you have a move that stops melee and gunfire damage completely?

Because her 2 is a team buff and helps the team.. Her 2, and 3 is for her while locked in place when in PM. However I see your point, and her 2 and 3 could be combined and she could get a whole new ability.  That said so could every other frame in the game. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[ljmadruga]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

The point still stands. Why have a move to resist gunfire damage if you have a move that stops melee and gunfire damage completely?

The difference between the two is consistency. Shooting gallery stuns a small AOE about once every second if enemies are around. It also only works in a very limited range. The end result is effective but inconsistent as a primary source of defense.

Shattershield, on the other hand is more consistent and does not require any sort of range to operate properly. However, it only defends against projectile damage, so explosions and melee attacks will still go right through.

Using the two in conjunction with one another eliminates the downsides of each ability and provides a solid defense for an otherwise squishy frame.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

5 minutes ago, ljmadruga said:

Using the two in conjunction with one another eliminates the downsides of each ability and provides a solid defense for an otherwise squishy frame.

It's still the same problem of having to waste twice as many slots and energy to accomplish the same goal.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On 2018-11-17 at 4:27 PM, DenoDagor said:

For me it'd be mostly just her 1, just get rid of it. I'd say she could have something close to Excal's 1, but with the Regulators.

A quick dodge or dash in the direction you're moving, during it she automatically shoots the closest enemies, 3 of them at most(?).

Something very quick, usable while moving without stopping your control for too long.

That’s what I’d like to see implemented as a change for her 1. It’ll be like Skyforge’s Outlaw with its Dash Shot. What I’d want is a guaranteed Blast or Impact proc that ragdolls enemies away to give Mesa breathing room.

This change would definitely synergize with Shooting Gallery, since you’ll force zone her aura to CC enemy firearms or stun melee units.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

Steps on the toes of the Waltz augment a bit, but I'd like it if her Ballistic Battery were swapped with a dash type attack.

 

Move to the spot you are aiming at (not limited to the ground), and instantly shoot everything in a radius around the path she takes with the Regulators. Make it usable with Peacemaker for re-positioning. Quick, simple, and gives her a mobility skill.

[EinheriarJudith]

id give peacemaker the artemis bow touch. remove the drain from it and make it drain energy per shot.

[crashapple12]

the only thing i would change about mesa is i would make her ballistic battery a toggle that gives say... +50% damage and scales up over time of not shooting, shatter shield adding to this effect based on incoming damage

it keeps the ability concept, but lets it be used in more circumstances

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

id give peacemaker the artemis bow touch. remove the drain from it and make it drain energy per shot.

Not to put too fine-a point on this, but can't Mesa fire up to around Grakata speed with the increase over time? So instead of getting the constant drain and an increasing fire rate that rewards us for being able to stay in there long enough to achieve it, we're instead literally drained completely by the time we hit max fire rate.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Not to put too fine-a point on this, but can't Mesa fire up to around Grakata speed with the increase over time? So instead of getting the constant drain and an increasing fire rate that rewards us for being able to stay in there long enough to achieve it, we're instead literally drained completely by the time we hit max fire rate.

there is always a way they could balance it like energy return in some manner. or just not have it use alot of energy per shot

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

there is always a way they could balance it like energy return in some manner. or just not have it use alot of energy per shot

I don't know, even if it only cost 1 energy per shot and you can then mod it down to 0.25, if you're firing 30 per second with good modding, then you're still making it more expensive.

Why put in additional functions like energy return to complicate the matter when simply adjusting the energy drain by one or two points would have a much more proportional benefit?

[EinheriarJudith]

27 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

I don't know, even if it only cost 1 energy per shot and you can then mod it down to 0.25, if you're firing 30 per second with good modding, then you're still making it more expensive.

Why put in additional functions like energy return to complicate the matter when simply adjusting the energy drain by one or two points would have a much more proportional benefit?

there is also the option to limit it to energy per kill. exalted modes are just another weapon. energy drain on just having that weapon out is bad which is why artemis bow is good in that regard.

Edit: im still waiting for them to lift the limitation of power usage while using peacemaker. mesa is the only exalted mode frame that has this limitation.

Edited November 20, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Draknas]

On 2018-11-17 at 10:27 PM, DenoDagor said:

For me it'd be mostly just her 1, just get rid of it.

Yeah, it's could be some kind of buff ability, for example reload speed, firerate, increased pistol dmg...etc. Replacing with a buff is more easily than giving to her 1st ability a new animation...

[skadoushe]

Her 1 should be changed to a teleport 30m in direction of reticle

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 2018-11-18 at 10:29 PM, Pizzarugi said:

Why? Mesa's a broken press-4-to-win frame that deletes everything in front of you by pressing 4 and holding down the mouse button. What she needs, more than anything, is a nerf.

Her down side is she isn’t that engaging to play, which is slightly compensated by bullet jumping and engaging 4 mid air.

Her 4 takes a longish time to engage. Invoking it and then immediately hitting fire, she always pops off a round of her current equipped weapon. When peacemaker has no target, pulling the trigger is simply dead. It’s a discouraging feedback. At times peacemaker doesn’t target enemies right in front of her, like a common lancer. Engaging and Disengaging gets dull quickly.

if peacemaker marked its active targets it might feel a bit better.