Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, Vanille said:

But the ironic thing is, stalker mode is designed for it.
Stalker is a low-mid challenge RNG miniboss (if you're new-ish to the game, otherwise it's no challenge at all) implemented after lore as a new mechanic of them visiting you for some rarity instead of you farming their planet node for rewards. It's manageable with its AI and players don't usually mind him because he's just a loot piñata not much different than other mission enemies. The purpose of the exclusive stalker mode is to troll and disrupt other players in any way you can (which currently includes being able to destroy objetives that can result the mission in a failure), but it's a rare troll mode that only developers use sometimes on devstreams, not something people would have to deal daily at all times.

The mode results in a couple of scenarios:
A) You spawn and you're hopeless as the current stalker is, unless you hit jackpot and get to disrupt a newbie who can't properly deal with the stalker, which is unfair. So why would anyone, pro-pvper or not, to have a mode in which you can't do anything? Conclave is basically dead, why bother adding even more PvP-sided features that are even worse?
B) You balance the stalker to survive and not be hopeless, then you just changed and forced PvP on players that are not looking for PvP with chances to most likely succeed on disrupting them, so obviously people would want to opt-out of it, or be unhappy with the game.

As much as I try to come up with a reason of why stalker mode would be fun, I can't. PvP doesn't work in Warframe, Conclave is there to prove it.

this is probably the first solid post on here. and you have changed my mind Lol

[Firetempest]

Well this has been as constructive as every other post about player stalker past page 1.

DE gets it. They know the majority of their players are clinically pvp adverse because they caved on the opt-out. But now some bored people have one more tool in the shed to try between night cycles or arbitrations.

Maybe some morbidly curious people will opt-in for a taste no matter what they say here. Maybe it will be everything they soap boxed about. Maybe it wont.

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, Lanadra said:

Very well, I'm sure you can excuse me for thinking someone ''has an attitude'' when their solution to not wanting to face a player stalker is to simply, and now I will quote you exactly as you said it:

Your solution is essentially, and do excuse me summarizing again.. ''stop killing bosses'', in a game where if you want to farm and acquire just about anything that isn't prime gear.. you have to kill bosses. It's a rather frequent and tiring argument that also isn't a solution at all. It's just a flippant ''stop getting in the way of something I want'' response.

The only reason people are arguing against an opt-out is because they know Stalker mode will be DOA otherwise. So the conclusion is basically this: ''Argue against it and force the majority of this game's playerbase into it.. just so that a function I want isn't DOA.''

There is no reason not to include an opt-out, it will avoid a massive backlash and headache for DE having to deal with said backlash. You're not dealing with a ''vocal minority'' standing in your way, even the devs have admitted that they believe Stalker mode will be DOA if we are able to opt-out of it. I have several times already emphasized how much of this game's community must really not want it then.

thats just a fact. stalker does not show up when you aren't marked. nothing more. it IS a viable option for some. 

an other thing is stalker doesn't really spawn that often anyway. and once it does your marker is gone. i mean i see him maybe twice a week? any more and i consider it "lucky"

Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo

[Lanadra]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

I'm not a big fan of PvP. But I do like the sound of this stalker mode.

I keep seeing people say "forced PvP" and I'm sat here thinking it's not. Like, TECHNICALLY it is because it's person versus person but it's not what I'd consider PvP.

So I'm wondering why my PvP isn't someone else's PvP. And I think the answer lies in competitive.

And this ain't competitive PvP. I think that makes a big difference. To me, at least.

''it's person vs person but it's not what I'd consider PvP.'' PvP is short for.. Player vs Player/Person vs Person. It's the literal definition, the act of engaging an enemy that is controlled by another human.

[White_Matter]

Coz people don't want to experience the pain of getting invaded, slain, and told to "git gud."

 

 

[Tsukinoki]

2 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

thats just a fact. stalker does not show up when you aren't marked. nothing more. it IS a viable option for some. 

Except that its not.

You're basically saying "Hey you don't want to be ganked by vets playing stalker mode?  Well how about you: never progress in the starchart and buy every single frame in the game!  You don't wnat forced PvP?  Enjoy a massive paywall and never being able to progress!"

Telling players to just avoid marks doesn't work in Warframe, unless you know some way to farm for frames and progress through the starchart without ever fighting a boss....

Even games in the SoulsBorne series have ways to avoid being invaded that don't involve locking yourself out of a majority of the game or farming anything...

The only people that this is a "viable" option for is people who already have everything and have completed the starchart.  For pretty much everyone else, especially new players?  this is in no way viable.

[Makunogo]

3 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Except that its not.

You're basically saying "Hey you don't want to be ganked by vets playing stalker mode?  Well how about you: never progress in the starchart and buy every single frame in the game!  You don't wnat forced PvP?  Enjoy a massive paywall and never being able to progress!"

Telling players to just avoid marks doesn't work in Warframe, unless you know some way to farm for frames and progress through the starchart without ever fighting a boss....

Even games in the SoulsBorne series have ways to avoid being invaded that don't involve locking yourself out of a majority of the game or farming anything...

The only people that this is a "viable" option for is people who already have everything and have completed the starchart.  For pretty much everyone else, especially new players?  this is in no way viable.

thats pretty reaching. nowhere did i imply or say that. also not all bosses trigger a stalker mark. stalker is nowhere near disruptive enough for it to become such a huge issue that everyone needs to shut it off. 

were also forgetting the stalker shows up in a relative level to the map its spawning in. its really not that strong..

again until this stalker mode comes out with its rules per say. it's hard to know if its even worth discussion over. 

but for the most part DE has said they dont want an opt out option if i recall correctly. the fear mongering about making missions fail is a bit farfetched and implies that players cant handle a stalker that essentially isn't chasing them.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

37 minutes ago, Lanadra said:

That's because the reasons are the same. People want an opt-out because they don't want to PvP. And if no opt-out, then people don't want this entire mode to begin with.. because they don't want to PvP.

You're trying to pretend like my points are invalid because it ''sounds'' like I'm not trying to argue for an opt-out, bur rather against the mode entirely. Which, frankly, is not the case, I've said in multiple of these threats that DE can do whatever they want with this as long as they let me opt-out entirely, to the point where I never have to deal with it.

At the same time, when even the devs think that this will be so vehemently disliked that it'll be dead on arrival if they give us an option. Then to some degree it does sound to me like perhaps they should indeed not even bother, unless their conclusion is ''We know the majority of our player base doesn't want it. But we'll still implement it with an opt-out'', in which case Player Stalker becomes a niche function for those who appreciate it, much like Conclave, while the rest of us don't have to worry about it. Which, again, would be fine by me.

I find the very notion of PvPers, or even just fellow PvE folks who are fine with this, thinking that it's okay to just force something like this, for me to basically just have my entire experience playing Warframe ruined, and that I should supposedly just learn to deal with it. To be absolutely ludicrous. I do not want any human controlled entity, Stalker or otherwise, to stand in opposition to me and my team as we cooperatively try to accomplish a mission. I do not want it. I should not have to present any other reason then that as to why I want the option to opt-out.

There is a reason I don't play Conclave, why I don't play Dark Souls. Because I don't want any sort of PvP, I don't enjoy it, I don't want it. Period.

Your original point was that Stalker Mode would inevitably see Stalker buffed, right? I don't see how an opt-out would solve this problem (if it is in fact a problem). To me it seems to be about what Stalker Mode should be. Once that is decided disscusion of an opt-out may then be relevant. As is an opt-out seems to make implementing the mode pointless.

I don't understand how pvp Stalker ruins your gameplay experince. It doesn't seem to be based on consequences of Stalker killing you as they are the same wherther he is player or ai controlled. It doesn't seem to be about fears of him being overly powerful. AI Stalker could be given massive damge and full invulnerbility and it would have the same effect. Player trolling would be a concern. Though you never mentioned this and personnaly I think it would be a non issue. I suppose my question is "why do you dislike pvp and how is it relevant to Stalker Mode". Sorry if you feel I am being belligerent or bullying in requesting reasons.

[LSG501]

It really is simple for me personally, the PvP in this games sucks, it really is incredibly bad compared with dedicated PvP games (I grew up with UT, quake etc).  If PvP was any good in this game more people would play conclave... strangely enough not many people do.

Any sort of attempt to 'balance' a conclave 'lifer' against a non conclave player will make the game mode completely pointless and all we'll see is complaints from both sides.... the first thing to go to appease the 'stalker' side would be the use of operators and as much as I hate the operator it's part of our kit now. 

Not to mention if DE put 'game changing' items behind stalker mode with no other way to get them then there will be complaints too because it would be 'forcing us' to play it.

 

Having said that in all honesty I have no reason to even bother with stalker, zanuka (that could do with a buff in all honesty), g3 or syndicate squad full stop.... I have EVERYTHING they have on offer, I've maxed all 6 syndicates and bought everything they have (except maybe a captura or 2), I've got all the stalker goodies, done the side missions for zanuka and g3 and gained their weapons.  Their arrival is little more than a short 'time sink' during a mission.  Making the stalker controlled by another player isn't all of a sudden going to make me want to fight it more. 

Personally I see adding the game mode as wasting resources which could be better utilised somewhere else, it's simply put not something I've seen the majority asking for and the fact that a lot of people are simply saying we want to be able to 'turn it off' says more to me about how 'popular' it will be than anything else.  Think about it this way... how often have you played the street fighter mini game since it was released... I know I only gave it a couple of goes when it was released and haven't touched it since.

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

15 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Coz people don't want to experience the pain of getting invaded, slain, and told to "git gud."

 

 

How is this playerbase such knuckle dragging Groogs? This game is already easy, now you want to "opt-out" of a barely difficult mechanic? Why not "opt-out" of any enemy spawns at all and just walk to the extraction point? I hope Steve-o and the bois don't cave to these hordes of brain drained fortnight players. It'll leave Warframe devoid of story, challenge, and anything that isn't Overwatch-esk bland interchangeable swill. 

To add: How would you "opt-out" of a murderous acolyte chasing you as a Tenno? That makes no sense story wise. "Oh gee, pee-wee here isn't ready to face me! Best be on my way then, don't wanna make this Tenno sad faced"! Maybe I'll accept opting out if it makes the operator and frame wear a baby bib and all their weapons sound like cartoon slapstick effects.

Edited December 12, 2018 by (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999

[Tsukinoki]

13 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

also not all bosses trigger a stalker mark

I have yet to find a boss that doesn't trigger stalker...the only one that comes to mind isn't really a boss and that is corrupted Vor.

I've been marked by:
Vor, Vay Hek, Sargas Ruk, Kela De Thaym, Lech Kril, Tyl Reggor, Alad V, Ambulas, Hyena Pack, Jackal, Raptors, The Sergeant, Lephantis, Phorid, and Jordas Golem
Which nearly all of them have frames locked behind them.

13 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

thats pretty reaching. nowhere did i imply or say that.

Except for one thing:
The only way to not get marks is to not kill bosses.
Not killing bosses means that you can't farm for frames (the majority of which come from bosses) or progress through the starchart (because most planets and junctions require you to go through the boss node)

And your suggestion was "Just don't get stalker marks"
Which as just pointed out means that you can't farm for frames (so if you wan't frames and don't want PvP you are now forced into buying all frames), and it also means that you can't complete the starchart, which also locks you out of arbitrations...

You may not have said or implied that...but that's the only possible outcome from your suggestion, and I'm explaining why your suggestion is in no way, shape, or form "viable" as a way to avoid forced PvP stalker encounters...

Edited December 12, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[Sace]

They could implement Stalker-Mode with Opt-Out as well.

As an incentive, DE should give that Stalker a few unique, ever-changing untradable drops people can only get by activating Stalker-Mode. That way, people can opt-out of it and never see a Stalker in their life. Problem solved. 🙂

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, Sace said:

As an incentive, DE should give that Stalker a few unique, ever-changing untradable drops people can only get by activating Stalker-Mode.🙂

As long as those drops aren't items which give xp or game changing mods... that will not go down well.

[Gabbynaru]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

How is this playerbase such knuckle dragging Groogs? This game is already easy, now you want to "opt-out" of a barely difficult mechanic? Why not "opt-out" of any enemy spawns at all and just walk to the extraction point? I hope Steve-o and the bois don't cave to these hordes of brain drained fortnight players. It'll leave Warframe devoid of story, challenge, and anything that isn't Overwatch-esk bland interchangeable swill. 

Prime example why we hate PvP right here.

[LascarCapable]

il y a 4 minutes, Sace a dit :

They could implement Stalker-Mode with Opt-Out as well.

As an incentive, DE should give that Stalker a few unique, ever-changing untradable drops people can only get by activating Stalker-Mode. That way, people can opt-out of it and never see a Stalker in their life. Problem solved. 🙂

That loot should probably be limited to conclave items. Be it skins, conclave mods, or whatever.

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Prime example why we hate PvP right here.

Do elaborate please.

[rapt0rman]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

How is this playerbase such knuckle dragging Groogs? This game is already easy, now you want to "opt-out" of a barely difficult mechanic? Why not "opt-out" of any enemy spawns at all and just walk to the extraction point? I hope Steve-o and the bois don't cave to these hordes of brain drained fortnight players. It'll leave Warframe devoid of story, challenge, and anything that isn't Overwatch-esk bland interchangeable swill. 

Errr... people want to opt out of PVP... y'know... PVP, like the two games you mentioned... Fortnight and Overwatch... one more time PVP.

[ZesiMuerte]

Warframe is a braindead game. You get home from work, you turn PC on, open Warframe, switch off brain, bullet jump and shoot. When I don't feel like using my brain, I play Warframe. If I want to challenge myself against other players, I play PUBG or CS:GO.

I don't know how this "Stalker mode" will be implemented but surely, it's not something majority would enjoy since it is a form of PVP. PVP requires you to turn on your brain.

Also, I would like to say something about some of the posters here:

(a) Developers won't give 2 s*** about you if you threaten to leave the game just because you don't like certain mode. It's quite annoying to see such arrogance coming from some of you.

(b) Understand why some people don't want to be forced into a mode they do not wish to play. As I said, I play Warframe because it is easy. I am sure many others as well. The whole game is built around PVE it. I am sure if this game mode is optional, there won't be so many threads on it. If you can't see the problem with a forced game mode (pvp), I question your intelligence.

/offtopic: Actually, DE should just jump on the PUBG trend. Make a Warframe PUBG, lol.

Edited December 12, 2018 by ZesiMuerte

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

3 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Errr... people want to opt out of PVP... y'know... PVP, like the two games you mentioned... Fortnight and Overwatch... one more time PVP.

I'm talking about Stalker. Its an AI, not a player. Who is also a part of the story. So essentially you're saying "disable a boss, DE". Might as well throw Grustragg 3, Syndicate Invasions, and Juggernaut spawns in that basket too.

EDIT: If you're talking about the human player addition for a later time, then I can see the issue.

Edited December 12, 2018 by (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999

[Makunogo]

10 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

I have yet to find a boss that doesn't trigger stalker...the only one that comes to mind isn't really a boss and that is corrupted Vor.

I've been marked by:
Vor, Vay Hek, Sargas Ruk, Kela De Thaym, Lech Kril, Tyl Reggor, Alad V, Ambulas, Hyena Pack, Jackal, Raptors, The Sergeant, Lephantis, Phorid, and Jordas Golem
Which nearly all of them have frames locked behind them.

Except for one thing:
The only way to not get marks is to not kill bosses.
Not killing bosses means that you can't farm for frames (the majority of which come from bosses) or progress through the starchart (because most planets and junctions require you to go through the boss node)

And you're suggestion was "Just don't get stalker marks"
Which as just pointed out means that you can't farm for frames (so if you wan't frames and don't want PvP you are now forced into buying all frames), and it also means that you can't complete the starchart, which also locks you out of arbitrations...

 soon as u kill a boss some player is gonna spawn and ruin (not likely) ONE mission.. this is hardly a problem. 

in fact i can see people bossing MORE in order to try and bring them out if anything now that i think about it..

im constantly marked and as i've said ill see maybe at most 3 stalkers a week.

i can admit it can be hard to avoid getting marks. but also as i stated stalker barely appears enough for it to become some widespread game breaking issue. that is "gonna make me quit" as some have said.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Makunogo

[rapt0rman]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

I'm talking about Stalker. Its an AI, not a player. Who is also a part of the story. So essentially you're saying "disable a boss, DE". Might as well throw Grustragg 3, Syndicate Invasions, and Juggernaut spawns in that basket too.

I think you're HEAVILY misunderstanding something, this entire debate is about the future player controlled stalker mode.

[Lanadra]

10 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Think about it this way... how often have you played the street fighter mini game since it was released... I know I only gave it a couple of goes when it was released and haven't touched it since.

Frame fighter? Not even a single time. I get the ''coolness'' factor of it, but ultimately if I want a fighting game.. I'll go play Tekken.

[Sace]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb LSG501:

As long as those drops aren't items which give xp or game changing mods... that will not go down well.

 

vor 6 Minuten schrieb D20:

That loot should probably be limited to conclave items. Be it skins, conclave mods, or whatever.

I was thinking about weapons, warframe parts and unique mods actually. Basically stuff people would really look forward to. That ensures that as many as possible play with stalker-mode enabled.

I mean the mode has barely been shown and next to nobody experienced it but they are already crying how bad it is. I thought for a second I am in a german message board.

But give them their opt-out if they can't live without it. Just lock them out of some cool stuff as exchange.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Sace

[FlusteredFerret]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

 soon as u kill a boss some player is gonna spawn and ruin (not likely) ONE mission.. this is hardly a problem. 

im constantly marked and as ive said ill see maybe at most 3 stalkers a week.

i can admit it can be hard to avoid getting marks. but also as i stated stalker barely appears enough for it to become some widespread game breaking issue. that is "gonna make me quit" as some have said.

But you're assuming Player Stalker will be the same as AI Stalker. Which would make it a rather limited mode...therefore likely not popular.

What a lot of people are afraid of is that in order to make it popular and widely played, they would have to make it game-breaking for PvE players, by allowing it to happen frequently.

 

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

2 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

I think you're HEAVILY misunderstanding something, this entire debate is about the future player controlled stalker mode.

Ahhhh damn now I'm the groog. I thought they meant ALL stalkers as a concept, not the currently non implemented player stalker. I could care less about that then. That's not crying for game nerfs.

Edited December 12, 2018 by (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999