[spoiler] Should we win the New War ?

[Umbriellan]

Hello everyone,
I know that this question seems silly : we are in a game, it's just a new event, or the start of a new story-arc, whatever, blablabla... so there is no question about that: " we shall prevail lol as always ".

I came a bit before the introduction of the Plains of Eidolons, I did all the quests & missions, eager to know more about the lore, trying to make my character doing something in & for the Sol-system.
Sadly I don't have this feeling; we're killing clones & robots by tons; with the secondary quests we receives SOS transmissions from a lost warframe & AI, try to influence the culture of an unknown tribes, or the way of thinking of our Eco-socialist party... Nothing changes in the end, or to speak as the Lotus said: "we keep the balance".

At least I enjoyed the Operator finaly having some feelings, emotions & communicating them in the last chapter ! It's great to not see an actor playing as an amoeba 😄

But the New War, what it supposes to bring; relics of the Old War, or new creatures coming right from Tau; the community already divided on what to do, or not do, to the Lotus...

Many things will happens, and if we "win" - what would change ?
Doesn't it sound better to finaly have a true loss ?

Think of it - the Sentients taking a strong foot in the Solar system; making the Tennos in search of an escape, an exit, maybe with the void, maybe with the runway which should have been made & complete be the Sentients between Sol & Tau. It sounds more... interesting to me, more promising too.

What is your opinion ?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Umbriellan

[peterc3]

The Sentients blow up our Orbiters and then it's a total game over. Sounds like fun.

Short of literally vaporizing our entire arsenal, there is no way for us to really lose.

[Gabbynaru]

Lore-wise or gameplay-wise? Cause I'm not sure if a lore-wise loss will matter all that much. "Oh yeah, we lost, now let's go back to genociding and looking fabulous." But if it affects us gameplay-wise, and we're suddenly not this godlike force, instead having to scrap for ourselves and feel like scurrying rodents in the face of apocalypse...then I'm definitely in for it, as long as it's executed properly. I'll take a good dark science fantasy story every day of the week.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Gabbynaru

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

i have excalibur umbra and my skijiati 

think i can take a few out at least

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

5 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

Doesn't it sound better to finally have a true loss ?

Not at all.

We the Tenno are the only things standing in the way of the Sentients' total annihilation of the system. We lose, EVERYONE loses.

[Umbriellan]

il y a 1 minute, peterc3 a dit :

Short of literally vaporizing our entire arsenal, there is no way for us to really lose.

 

il y a 1 minute, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako a dit :

i think i can take a few out at least

You, as a soldier, can win every battles you're in.
But you can't be on every battlefield in this case: you got a Invasion

[Umbriellan]

il y a 1 minute, (XB1)Skippy575 a dit :

Not at all.
We the Tenno are the only things standing in the way of the Sentients' total annihilation of the system. We lose, EVERYONE loses.

Except that (1) we don't know exactly what the Sentients are coming for : killing all humans (so a true extermination); the orokin (so only the tennos); or to take back "home" (maybe a try to socialise with other existing life form, as they protected Tau... while keeping the enemy away) + (2) the corpus and the grineer are a great threat, we have an equal power with them after all (if that wasn't the case, one group would have reckt the others to dust long time ago: we're in war for centuries according to some).

So we (Tennos) could see defeat, while the System continues to work...

Nota - I also forgot about the infestation going wild here & there...

[peterc3]

7 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

 

You, as a soldier, can win every battles you're in.
But you can't be on every battlefield in this case: you got a Invasion

We, at this point in the overall story arc, probably have access to most of the institutional knowledge "lost" to time with the fall of the Orokin. We have the ability to counter Sentient resistances, we have the ability to travel in the Void, in open space, in atmosphere, in bodies of liquid. We can repair and rebuild the frames. Build anything from pointy sticks to weaponry probably derived from the main cannons on space vessels.

A true loss can only happen if we are cut off from our Orbiter.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

5 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

 

You, as a soldier, can win every battles you're in.
But you can't be on every battlefield in this case: you got a Invasion

maybe if i hive mind link and control many umbra exacls >? or control my other 30+ frames in arsenal simultaneously

but i mean there are million + tenno and frames that can simultaneously be used 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

6 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

So we (Tennos) could see defeat, while the System continues to work.

Doubtful. In some shape or form the Grineer and Corpus have their roots in the Orokin Empire, as does the rest of the citizens in the system. The Sentients will go after everyone.

[HugintheCrow]

13 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

Except that (1) we don't know exactly what the Sentients are coming for : killing all humans (so a true extermination); the orokin (so only the tennos); or to take back "home" (maybe a try to socialise with other existing life form, as they protected Tau... while keeping the enemy away) + (2) the corpus and the grineer are a great threat, we have an equal power with them after all (if that wasn't the case, one group would have reckt the others to dust long time ago: we're in war for centuries according to some).

So we (Tennos) could see defeat, while the System continues to work...

Nota - I also forgot about the infestation going wild here & there...

We DO know. Hunhow says: "I am Hunhow, sentient DESTROYER OF WORLDS".

The idea behind Sentients is simple:

They were robots programmed to make Tau a living heaven... but a problem arose, they realised that if they worked for the Ororkin, the Orokin would ruin that heaven the Sentients built.

So, how to solve that? Kill everyone, the world is now perfect and undestructibly beautiful.

Edited January 8, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[stormy505]

This thread was made by the sentient gang. Support our cause and lose this war tenno.

[Umbriellan]

il y a 2 minutes, peterc3 a dit :

A true loss can only happen if we are cut off from our Orbiter.

I thought more about "getting kicked out of the Sol system" & also being in divided Tenno side (for/against Mom + a whatever I don't care & it's not a phase)

 

il y a 2 minutes, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako a dit :

maybe if i hive mind link and control many umbra exacls >? or control my other 30+ frames in arsenal simultaneously

but i mean there are million + tenno and frames that can simultaneously be used 

I could agree, but we don't know how many warframe an Operator could make "alive/sentient", if it's the time passing by while you possessed it that it gives the warframe a sort of "free will" (and it could be a great things)
About the "many tennos out there" - I don't believe we got any numbers about that, if we should take into account the current number of player registered, or else...

il y a 4 minutes, (XB1)Skippy575 a dit :

Doubtful. In some shape or form the Grineer and Corpus have their roots in the Orokin Empire, as does the rest of the citizens in the system. The Sentients will go after everyone.

 

il y a 12 minutes, HugintheCrow a dit :

[...] So, how to solve that? Kill everyone, the world is now perfect and undestructibly beautiful.

Grandma seems in the trailer more against the Tennos; which are orokins - the Grineers could be seen as slave (just like the Sentients) as they were the builders/workers for the Orokin... For the Corpus, yeah... we could expect them to be targeted, if they don't trade together (the idea of "profit" is similar to what the Orokins did, but a "profit" could be made while protecting life (and doing a commerce about that...) so we could imagine a variant of the Corpus which could live with the Sentients).

Well, without a true speak of Grandma' - which completly overlooked grandpa Hunhow (poor guy) - we don't know exactly their objectives (Hunhow kept his position from the Old War [kill the Tenno and overtake the Sol-System], but Asteroid-mommy doesn't appear yet in connection with "the destroyer of the worlds", just as if Grand-Mother has a different agenda...).

[Umbriellan]

il y a 50 minutes, Gabbynaru a dit :

Lore-wise or gameplay-wise? Cause I'm not sure if a lore-wise loss will matter all that much. "Oh yeah, we lost, now let's go back to genociding and looking fabulous." But if it affects us gameplay-wise, and we're suddenly not this godlike force, instead having to scrap for ourselves and feel like scurrying rodents in the face of apocalypse...then I'm definitely in for it, as long as it's executed properly. I'll take a good dark science fantasy story every day of the week.

I didn't think about the "after" as it's a specific topic, but a defeat would make us take some step back, to rethink about ourself, and force us to adapt, to evolve, just like the Sentients we're fighting.

Thinking of it... it would be one good reason to have the Adult-operator, with a very different gameplay; modified warframes with whatever void-tech or sentient-tech.
But the main issue I have with our current Game is that you can play with MR1 while playing Harrow ... there is no walls betweens players - so if you implement radical changes in gameplay, in power if you reach a specific chapter in the story... it bothers.

A mechanism should be implemented to allow players to choose to play in the Star-chart "Before" & "After" the New War. Like that any end-game player could go back in the "star-chart n°1" to play casually the events, missions, Eidolons, Profit taker, or whatever, while keeping the stuff from the "star-chart n°2" locked away.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Umbriellan
typo

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

some valid points. 

i mean if we have how many active wfs with umbra or paracysis setups 

then id have to wonder at enemy forces and the grandma(sentient base) and force size and if thats not just one but many outposts

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, Umbriellan said:

I didn't think about the "after" as it's a specific topic, but a defeat would make us take some step back, to rethink about ourself, and force us to adapt, to evolve, just like the Sentients we're fighting.

Thinking of it... it would be one good reason to have the Adult-operator, with a very different gameplay; modified warframes with whatever void-tech or sentient-tech.
But the main issue I have with our current Game is that you can play with MR1 while playing Harrow ... there is no walls betweens players - so if you implement radical changes in gameplay, in power if you reach a specific chapter in the story... it bothers.

A mechanism should be implemented to allow players to choose to play in the Star-chart "Before" & "After" the New War. Like that any end-game player could go back in the "star-chart n°1" to play casually the events, missions, Eidolons, Profit take, or whatever, while keeping the stuff from the "star-chart n°2" locked away.

Well, a common suggestion people have about NG+ or higher difficulty or whatever is the Tau System.  So, you know, just like how the Stalker turned into and remained the Shadow Stalker after Second Dream, so could the New War turn the solar system into a corrupted version of itself, or just lock us into the Tau System until DE creates a new quest that would allow us to return. I know it would be a much grander scale to just turning Stalker into Shadow Stalker, but it would definitely work gameplay-wise as a way to make us understand that WE are the ones who have lost the war, and it would have a much more lasting impact on the players, just like all the changes Second Dream brought had in the past.

Problem is, as you said, that would require a serious gameplay overhaul. But, if they were bringing in a new system and all the tilesets that come with it, they could also bring in enemies with new gameplay rules and equipment with more grounded and limited mechanics (or still just as wacky, but just not as impactful). They would also have to lock down trading between Tau players and Sol players in order to maintain this revelation, but I think that would be one of the easier things to implement.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

What would Tenno “losing” the New War entail? Collapse of all factions within the Origin System? The loss of all advanced life in the Origin System? The destruction of the Origin System itself? Even one Tenno can be a threat to hundreds of Sentients (see: Mirage lore), and even the massive Sentient that threatened the Unum tower hid from Gara during the day (apparently Sentients are stronger at night? Maybe this trait applies to that specific Sentient? Lore is unclear here). The Orokin themselves were on the brink of defeat, and turned to utilizing Warframes and Tenno out of desperation; a gamble that seemingly paid off as Sentient presence was essentially wiped out of the Origin System following their usage.

My take on it is that if the Sentients truly want to obtain victory, they must ensure all Tenno are wiped out. Otherwise there will always be an opportunity for a turnaround. A Sentient victory in this manner would be ultimately boring though: “Game Over, your Tenno is dead! Your account has been deleted, thanks for playing!” *cue credits*

I could imagine a scenario where the Tenno are forced to abandon the Origin System and perform a suicide strike on whatever Hive Mind leads the Sentient forces from within Tau, but succeeding would still ultimately result in a victory for the Tenno rather then a loss.

It would be neat if the Tenno somehow lost the Origin System completely, and the remainder of the story took place in the Tau system with all the factions adjusting to life in an alien realm terraformed by the Sentients. But practically I imagine the New War will probably follow this chain of events: 

• Sentients invade the Origin System from the Sentient outpost, starting the New War.
• Tenno drive them back with some effort, then utilize Railjack to track down the outpost and destroy it.
• Tenno use Railjack to enter the Tau System and defeat the Sentients once and for all, ending the New War and opening the Tau System up for all factions to enter.

Im hoping for a Ballas boss fight where we use the very blade he gave us to end his suffering at the very least. Maybe a bout with Natah would be interesting as well.

There is also Hunhow, obviously very much alive, despite his main body lying at the bottom of the Uranus oceans. As we now know Kuva makes it possible for Sentients to re-gain the ability to regenerate, perhaps his full revival may be more likely then initially assumed. 

There’s also the matter of the original Eidolon. On the edge of the plains along the coast, one can observe a huge wreckage resembling Sentient arches. Said wreckage glows and animated at night, and is obviously huge in scale. I wonder if we’ll ever get a closer look at what lies across the ocean? Or at least gain a clearer picture of the nature of said original Eidolon, whose consciousness is supposedly still underneath the plains with no Warden to prevent its revival.

I'm looking forward to the events of the New War regardless, since Sentients are pretty darn cool in my opinion!

Edited January 8, 2019 by OmegaZero633

[Aldain]

Kinda hard to make the story go to "we lose" when losing is pretty much the end of the...well everything as we know it.

Its like writing a mystery novel but suddenly a building collapses and everyone related to the mystery dies and that's where the novel ends.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Should We win? Yes. We have to.

If we lose...every non-animal species in The Origin System will be exterminated.

Corpus are direct descendants of The Orokin, Grineer are all Clones from an Orokin Construction Grunt.

Humanity are the precursors to the Orokin. Hence why Hunhow & the Sentients were trying to kill everyone & everything Orokin/Human.

[__S0ck__]

By this point, we basically have a whole sentient extermination kit. Umbra and his Umbral mods, the Paracesis, Sacrificial mods, and our Tenno powers run on the void which is poison to them. There's no real way we're gonna lose unless they bring in the giant sentient motherships.

Edited January 8, 2019 by --Nob0dy--

[trst]

The way I see Warframe's story thus far is that it can all be interpreted as a "coming of age" type of story. Each story about our operators have ended with them "maturing" and realizing (or remembering) more about themselves. Especially with Apostasy, Sacrifice, and Chimera (and some of War Within) we've been acting independent instead of doing what Lotus (or anyone else) has been telling us to do.

If we have a sort of "reality check" with the forces that are really in play here I'd suspect it to actually come after New War, or at least until after we've established what's going on with Lotus/Natha and what it means going forward (just because she's gone "full Sentient" and abandoned us doesn't mean we have the full picture of what's actually going on with her).

Edited January 9, 2019 by trst

[(PSN)robotwars7]

if we lose the new war, we'll probably die, or at the very least the Sentients will take over the system and we'll only have one faction to fight. would be kinda bland IMO.

obviously we'll win, but the real question here is what will happen with Natah? and this begs more questions; will we finally learn why she abandoned us? why she turned Ballas into the Chimera? will she come around, or try to kill us? will we have no choice but to kill her, and if so, who replaces her as our guide, if anyone? that's the main thing here. If I had to guess, I'd say that maybe she'd sacrifice herself to prevent her sentient Mother from killing us, and we'll be left to make our own way in the system (a story that would resonate with anyone who lost a parent while they were young). ofc it would be done a certain way, but that's what i'd guess at. I could be way off the mark, but I don't think we're gonna get a straight up sunshine-and-rainbows ending to all this, where Lotus comes around, Ballas dies, the Sentients are defeated and we all go out for milkshakes as some credits roll.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, trst said:

The way I see Warframe's story thus far is that it can all be interpreted as a "coming of age" type of story. Each story about our operators have ended with them "maturing" and realizing (or remembering) more about themselves. Especially with Apostasy, Sacrifice, and Chimera (and some of War Within) we've been acting independent instead of doing what Lotus (or anyone else) has been telling us to do.

If we have a sort of "reality check" with the forces that are really in play here I'd suspect it to actually come after New War, or at least until after we've established what's going on with Lotus/Natha and what it means going forward (just because she's gone "full Sentient" and abandoned us doesn't mean we have the full picture of what's actually going on with her).

^^^

People are talking about the New War as a very literal war - which it is admittedly likely to involve but I think the story will continue to be more personal. The Operator has, at this point, become pretty damn independent, mature and empathic _{(even if their in-mission dialogue hasn't changed to reflect this...)} and DE advertised the Sacrifice as the end to a trilogy of sorts, most likely the 'coming of age' part of the story. So I'd probably say the most likely thing for it to really be about at the New War's core is the Operator realising their newfound maturity. Maturity isn't something you just... get. You don't get a 'level up maturity' moment so It's quite possible the Operator hasn't even quite twigged that they don't actually NEED the Lotus anymore.

I'd probably predict the New War going something like this:

Spoiler

 

Ballas contacts us, either directly or thanks to Wally's shenanigans, and informs us of where Lotus is.

We go there in Railjack.

We realise an army is building. Hunhow and/or Natah/Natah's mother is involved.

We determine that Lotus is secretly on our side/brainwashed/blackmailed/a separate entity to Natah/mentally disturbed due to the events of the previous quests and making self-destructive choices.

Ballas probably dies at some point. If we bring Umbra along, its possible he does the deed.

We awaken some kind of new self, some kind of great ascension of the Operator only accessible with their newfound maturity. Most likely accompanied by some kind of callback to the Second Dream. And, of course, a power up of some kind.

We wind up fighting Hunhow and/or Natah and/or Natah's mother, probably using Railjack.

If fighting Natah/Lotus, the fight ends Undertale style - with us sparing Lotus and convincing her not to fight.

If fighting any of the others - including Natah as a separate entity, we manage to postpone the invasion by injuring them - if Hunhow and another is present, we may finally get to kill Hunhow.

Either way, we reach Lotus and turn her back to our side.

We assume things are going to go back to normal, but Lotus refuses in an emotionally rising moment, stating that we don't need her as a guide anymore. That we have grown up.  She then stays on our side, but takes on a new role - probably involving us fighting in the Tau system as part of the actual New War.

As an alternate outcome - if Natah is being brainwashed/abused then Hunhow may actually ally with us as we both at the end of the day want Lotus safe - this alliance may wind up sticking if Hunhow is listening to Lotus 'letting us go' and realising that he has been too possessive of his daughter and too consumed by his rage. Sentients might be angry, but they can feel emotions if Lotus is anything to go by, so it's possible that Hunhows fury might be able to be assuaged. In which case, the New War may be a civil war between the Sentients that want to coexist with the Tenno and the Origin system and those that wish to destroy it.

 

Of course, I've been wrong before. DE has completely thrown me for a loop in the past, so take this with a pinch of salt.

[Leyers_of_facade]

Considering what we got from our last 2 quest....

Umbra mods (tau resistance)

Sacrificial mods (+dmg to sentients)

Paracesis (+dmg to sentients, resets their damage immunity)

 

I honestly don't think we will lose, as these things above require quite a bit of resources (endo mainly), and its not a good game design to have players spend a lot of resources to prepare for a fight that they are guarantee to lose.

[SirTobe]

There will always be war, or else there is no game, obviously. It would be a huge waste to expand this faction of enemies along with the Tau system just to have it disappear again after some story missions.

I believe we'll likely just kill off some key characters, but the conflict will remain on a more balanced level, just as with all other factions. Tau may be an incredible place of evolution which don't necessarily deserve to be nuked to ashes. We don't know much about the current sentients yet either, maybe they have become a split faction? Maybe there are sentients that can be reasoned with? Who knows.

I expect some epic twists, but not a true ending to anything.