What if Warframe abilities have skill tree?

[Genesix6]

The title says it, now not like the skill tree when it was years ago. A skill tree that allow you to upgrade your abilities into offensive/survival/support skill.

For example

Frost 3rd ability snowglobe

Offensive, turn the snowglobe into bowling ball that deals are damage and proc cold on enemies when hit. Enemies that is frozen will deal damage aoe to surrounding enemies when kill

Support, turn the snowglobe into an ice armor that can applied to ally as well. Granting 500 armor. As well giving them health regenation.

Survival, turn the snowglobe into moveable snowglobe, the snowglobes moves along with the base frame. Enemies that is touched by snowglobe will be frozen

Now I know there is gonna be power creep when this is implented, however I might ok, I MIGHT have a solution to this 

Any abilities will downside, 

Upgrade to offensive decrease your maximum health

Upgrade to survival decrease your maximum shield 

Upgrade to support decrease your maximum energy

1st ability decrease 10%

2nd ability decrease 20% 

3rd ability decrease 30%

4th abilities decrease 40%

So what is your thought about this idea?^-^

Edited January 27, 2019 by Genesix6

[MBaldelli]

17 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

The title says it, now not like the skill tree when it was years ago. A skill tree that allow you to upgrade your abilities into offensive/survival/support skill.

Do we really want to be taking a step backwards to go forward?  I'm glad it was phased out during closed beta, and my return to another game which uses Skill trees remind me too keenly I of how much I don't like them.  They're limiting, they don't allow for any flexibility and don't allow balancing based on need nor necessity.  

And the information you've provided makes me wonder if you've worked on the three configurations based on this idea?  

Some of the ideas you're positing here would be definitely unbalanced and would cause further reworking in a way that more players would not be happy with.  

Edited January 27, 2019 by MBaldelli
Changed my mind on some of it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Sounds like a good way to delay every frame release by 4-6 months.

[Genesix6]

11 minutes ago, MBaldelli said:

And the information you've provided makes me wonder if you've worked on the three configurations based on this idea?  

If it's based on the past skill tree, no. Back then in order to progress in frame you need orokin calayst in order to unlock slot. This doesn't have that kind of progression

 

[ManoloAchede]

Mods (especially augment mods) already work as a "skill tree". 

 

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

I'd just like Good Augments for each Ability. The Augments for Abilities range from GOD (Chromatic Blade) to WHY THO? (Perpetual Vortex)

[Genesix6]

2 hours ago, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

Mods (especially augment mods) already work as a "skill tree". 

 

Mods doesn't really change the skill of how they work, they changed the damage, duration and other thing

Augment, I agree, but only some of them are good, while other augment are straight up minor buff or useless (shocking speed is a good example of a minor buff)

 

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Genesix6

[Stormwylf]

I personally don't have a dog in this fight.  But I am fairly confident that this will not happen.  I can't imagine the amount of work it would take to put that mechanic into the game, but am willing to bet it is far too much.

[marcovchb]

This idea was born dead!

[stormy505]

Instead of a full skill tree imo expanding the augment mod collection would be better. Like introducing a mod space for augments and not limiting themselves to one augment per ability. Also this wouldn't slow down Warframe production because augments are made post Warframe release.

[JackHargreav]

Mods do the exact same thing as skill trees just in a different way. Also implementing them now would be untoughtful. It would require a New interface, mód rebalancing etc. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

Augment mods are supposed to do this but offer little in the way of viable trade-offs which is why they are as lackluster as they often are.

 

I don't dislike the idea overall but would rather they dramatically fleshed out the augment mod system and actually add slots for it that only augments could fit into.

[kgabor]

16 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

Upgrade to support decrease your maximum energy

Health, shields ok, if you're a good player, you don't need tanking and you can avoid being hit, but decreasing your max energy is always a direct nerf, especially for a support-caster.

If it had an RPG style stat and skill system and progression where you can choose the weaknesses and negative stats and it was properly balanced, then maybe it could work.

[Loza03]

Two problems.

1: it would take a crapload of time to make and have limited value as it'd make identifying the skillset of teammates in pubs even more of a nightmare than it is.

2: How would this work for frames with very precisely tuned powers? Limbo, Harrow and Nidus for example rely on their full kit. Chopping and changing powers screws with that.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

19 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

Mods doesn't really change the skill of how they work, they changed the damage, duration and other thing

Speed Nova / Slowva disagrees with you. 

Because there's a fairly big difference in how they work. All based on just changing one of those stats using mods. 

 

[Eivy]

I think some more options would be cool towards abilities, instead of augments. I don't like the augment idea as is. Maybe if it was something you plugged into your warframe, and only got 1 or 2 slots for like Exilus mod slot. But I'd say to only make it available to a Mastery 15 or maybe even 20. Make the higher levels a little more desirable, and make you feel more powerful because of mastery. Skill trees themselves though, no.. Too much.. Maybe if the Focus Trees or Tennos eventually have more effects on frames as well, that could be interesting.

[Genesix6]

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Speed Nova / Slowva disagrees with you. 

Because there's a fairly big difference in how they work. All based on just changing one of those stats using mods. 

 

Well abilities have 4 things: duration, power, range, and effiency. 

The frame skill still work the same, but the result is different. 

The skill tree works differently than putting mods, it's more similar to augment (concentrated arrow is a good example)

 

[Yxivi]

No, I'd like it more if they just fix all the useless skills in some warframes kit

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

Well abilities have 4 things: duration, power, range, and effiency. 

The frame skill still work the same, but the result is different. 

The skill tree works differently than putting mods, it's more similar to augment (concentrated arrow is a good example)

 

We all know what a skill tree is and how they work. Most of us probably even know how abilities work in Warframe. Many of us even realise that you are trying to copy and paste content from another game you like into warframe, regardless of if that makes sense. 

What lots of people are trying to tell you, and what I demonstrated with Nova, is that using mods can redefine the ability, producing the same effect that you are trying to produce, ie switching from defensive to offensive play. 

 

The idea as presented, isn't a great one. 

[Veridian]

This would take a lot of time and resources. Effectively slowing down everything else.

A much simpler solution is to add more augments.

In the end all of this will be a one day wonder, before the most OP options are discovered and then used by 95% of the players.

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

Well abilities have 4 things: duration, power, range, and effiency. 

The frame skill still work the same, but the result is different. 

The skill tree works differently than putting mods, it's more similar to augment (concentrated arrow is a good example)

 

This system cannot be universally applied because many frames have utility powers, or powers that aren't properly affected by these stats.

Any ability that works by changing the state of a target - invisibility, stasis, harrow's chains - does not have power strength affect it. Self-buffs or self-effects do not get affected by range. One-and-done abilities do not get affected by duration. For mods this is OK since it affects the entire frame, but on a power-by-power basis it does not.

[Genesix6]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We all know what a skill tree is and how they work. Most of us probably even know how abilities work in Warframe. Many of us even realise that you are trying to copy and paste content from another game you like into warframe, regardless of if that makes sense. 

Where do you get the idea of me copy and paste content from another game to warframe, where Warframe already have a skill tree to begin with.

44 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What lots of people are trying to tell you, and what I demonstrated with Nova, is that using mods can redefine the ability, producing the same effect that you are trying to produce, ie switching from defensive to offensive play. 

 

I only seen people said thing such as this

A. We don't need this, we have augment, all we need is an augment slot

B. That will take a lot of development, so it not gonna not happen

C. Are okay with the idea, but not okay with the nerf (only 1)

D. Wouldn't work well with many frame because of unbalance issue

E. Mods is like a skill tree but works differently

Also

There's 2 frame that only benefit themselves from  -negative 

Nova which negative power for enemies going faster

Hydroid which negative range for corridor camping

Switching to defensive to offensive, not a lot of frame can't even do this to begin with

Let's see here can we build Vauban as a number instead of being focus cc, no

Can we build volt as nuker toward high level enemies instead of cc, no

Can we build limbo as nuker as instead of being cc, no 

Can we build Loki as nuker with his 4th since it can damage,no. 

Some mods don't even benefits for certain frames, power donation is a mod that can only be benefit by 1 frame (obviously it's nova)

 

[SneakyErvin]

I'm kinda baffled by the people that say mods do the same as skill trees. Have you people ever played a game with skill trees?

Mods are simply equipment, nothing even near skill trees. 

Increased/reduced range/area stat? Check

Increased/reduced damage stat? Check

Increased/reduced duration stat? Check

Increased/reduced cost stat? Check

Those are 4 very common stats on gear in most every single game and often have nothing to do with actual skill trees. A few games combine them into skill trees aswell, but those are often in skill trees that give no particular active skill, or they are given as individual advancements to single skills.

A skill tree in WF could open up so much. Right now the simple stat stick mods impact all skill too much. Want extra range on your Avalanche, well tough luck because we'll force a massive Ice Globe on you aswell. Want negative strength for a speed Nova, too bad for you because we also force range upon you so your defensive skill wastes charges. Want a long lasting Enthrall? Sorry buddy but now your reave takes you to the moon in one click aswell.

Even a simple thing like being able lock out what stat(s) you dont want a skill to be effected by would be great. Simply let us keep skills at 100% even when positive modifiers are in the mix. Obviously all negative stats that would bring skills below 100% would still apply.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

29 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

Where do you get the idea of me copy and paste content from another game to warframe, where Warframe already have a skill tree to begin with.

Your post history. 

29 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

 I only seen people said thing such as this

=snip=

Perhaps you should slow down, put yourself apart from the part of you that likes your suggestion, and then read and think about what people have said. 

 

29 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

There's 2 frame that only benefit themselves from  -negative 

Nova which negative power for enemies going faster

Hydroid which negative range for corridor camping

Switching to defensive to offensive, not a lot of frame can't even do this to begin with

Trinity becomes Nuke Trinity, Rhino swaps from Ironclad-Reinforcing Stomp, to Ironclad-Shrapnel. I've seen a Loki go from having to sneak around backstabbing mobs to wtfpwnbbq-ing Hydron with his irradiating disarm. 

Those are effects you're asking for a skill tree to create, but they're already there. And you can't see them because you are too focused on what you have in mind. 

Also Limbo wants to know why you say that he can't Nuke? 

 

TL DR : are you sure that you have been playing Warframe or have you gotten us confused with your other game again? 

 

[Tsukinoki]

On 2019-01-26 at 8:02 PM, Genesix6 said:

So what is your thought about this idea?^-^

So how would this work with frames that pretty much rely on their entire kit, such as Nidus or Harrow or even Limbo?  They kinda rely on their whole kit working together and this would seriously screw with it...

Further there are some abilities that make no sense.  What would an "offensive" bless be?  Or a "defensive" bless?  Let alone a "support" bless...
Or what about a "defensive" exalted blade?  Or a "support" exalted blade?
Sure your idea works great on one of frosts abilities...but you have to consider the 30+ frames that are out there each with 4 abilities.

And how would Equinox work at all?  Day form is offensive and night form is defensive...so how would this skill tree even begin to approach her?

On 2019-01-26 at 8:02 PM, Genesix6 said:

Upgrade to offensive decrease your maximum health

Upgrade to survival decrease your maximum shield 

Upgrade to support decrease your maximum energy

1st ability decrease 10%

2nd ability decrease 20% 

3rd ability decrease 30%

4th abilities decrease 40%

So basically "If you want to play support, dont!  It'll sap you of all of your energy!  And with practically no upside!", because please remember penalties like this are applied after mods are taken into consideration...so -100% energy means you have zero energy, not just +175% if you have primed flow equipped.  Same with health and shields...meaning if you go full offensive you will have literally 0 health and will die upon spawning into a mission.
This is an extremely harsh punishment to support players...and for absolutely no reason.  Especially because support casters kinda...you know...need energy more than health or shields?