'Accidental Sale of Item' - Is DE giving preferential treatment to players?

[MagPrime]

46 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Well after a lengthy chat with support and constantly having the door slammed in my face, I'm here to say thanks for all the fish. This wasn't even about getting the Azima back it was about the principal the support actually sticking to what they've told everyone else. Making claims that it's been too long despite it's being less time that this case on reddit was over 372 log in days.

Good job, keep it up.

Sorry to see this. 😞

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

My friends and I were talking about one time things, and honestly don't see what would be bad about having their blueprints available from the market after you've gotten them the normal way.  Things like Chroma, Gara, etc that are quest rewards, and thus only available one time in game.  After you get them, and master them, their blueprints appear in the market.  That way if you don't like the character, you can sell it off to make room for another one, without worrying about "what if they change them in the future?"  Just make them cost enough that trying to make a profit off them is pointless.  250,000 credits to rebuy the Gara overall blueprint or something.  Same for one time weapons.  Sold your Azima because you were unimpressed with it?  They made changes 6 months later that made you change your mind?  150,000 credits for a blueprint so you can try it again.  Oh, and these market blueprints are untradable.

Edited January 29, 2019 by (PS4)Lollybomb

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Well after a lengthy chat with support and constantly having the door slammed in my face, I'm here to say thanks for all the fish. This wasn't even about getting the Azima back it was about the principal the support actually sticking to what they've told everyone else. Making claims that it's been too long despite it's being less time that this case on reddit was over 372 log in days.

Good job, keep it up.

"No" as an answer is often easier than "Yes" (unless it's Amazon) to give especially if the agent is risk averse, working without specific/updated guidance or lazy.

The point is, "No" was going to be the most likely response initially anyway if there was no obvious conflicting guidance on the matter.

It's also possible that what you got for a response was the consistent response and what you linked was the inconsistency.

Either is possible as one case doesn't make a general rule.

I would suggest posting it in feedback, link the example you have and note the reply you received without naming and shaming.

Alternately... Ask the support agent to escalate it to the next level.   

[Joe_Barbarian]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

My friends and I were talking about one time things, and honestly don't see what would be bad about having their blueprints available from the market after you've gotten them the normal way.  Things like Chroma, Gara, etc that are quest rewards, and thus only available one time in game.  After you get them, and master them, their blueprints appear in the market.  That way if you don't like the character, you can sell it off to make room for another one, without worrying about "what if they change them in the future?"  Just make them cost enough that trying to make a profit off them is pointless.  250,000 credits to rebuy the Gara overall blueprint or something.  Same for one time weapons.  Sold your Azima because you were unimpressed with it?  They made changes 6 months later that made you change your mind?  150,000 credits for a blueprint so you can try it again.

About 4 months ago someone made the suggestion to put the item / blueprint in with Cephalon Simaris offerings for 50,000 or 100,000 reputation.

16 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

"No" as an answer is often easier than "Yes" (unless it's Amazon) to give especially if the agent is risk averse, working without specific/updated guidance or lazy.

The point is, "No" was going to be the most likely response initially anyway if there was no obvious conflicting guidance on the matter.

It's also possible that what you got for a response was the consistent response and what you linked was the inconsistency.

Either is possible as one case doesn't make a general rule.

I would suggest posting it in feedback, link the example you have and note the reply you received without naming and shaming.

Alternately... Ask the support agent to escalate it to the next level.   

I asked them to escalate it or to pass it directly to a certain [DE] Support Agent so another [DE] Staff member replied with the same recycled reply of:
- You're not eligible for reversal because too much time has passed.
- Please understand that in order for us to reverse a sale you need to inform us as soon as possible.
- We are sorry we couldn't be of more help
- Thanks for contacting us, see you in game Tenno

The irony in all of this is that the person in question said this on reddit: 
I acquired the azima on my 100 day of play (currently 471 days), and not knowing much about the game I stupidly sold it off for some creds. Now, is there anyway I could get this back? I have a riven for it and would like to put it to some use.

There are also reports on reddit that multiple people have made a request to get their Azima back but are being told no and that all cases are different

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

About 4 months ago someone made the suggestion to put the item / blueprint in with Cephalon Simaris offerings for 50,000 or 100,000 reputation. 

Even better.  Simaris is already all about cataloging everything, so him having it would make more sense.  Plus it's harder to get 100,000 rep with him than it is to get 2,000,000 credits.  Still should require that you already mastered the item already, but that shouldn't be a difficult condition to include.  Some things would have to be slightly modified, like Octavia.  She requires a one time item to craft, so either it'd be a modified blueprint that uses Orokin cells instead or the Mandachord is another blueprint to buy.

[-AiLuoLi-]

Watch as this thread gets derailed or buried alive. 

[Joe_Barbarian]

Just now, -AiLuoLi- said:

Watch as this thread gets derailed or buried alive. 

I think it'll either get locked or deleted to hide today's actions. I'm getting people involved that will hopefully approach DE on a more professional level to get answers and address this as people want their Azima's back, there is even a couple of stories of people selling their Zenistar, yes I thought the same thing when I heard that too.

[Joe_Barbarian]

After speaking with a Warframe discord moderator and a Warframe Partner about this matter and after giving support a chance at an explanation, it's been suggested I try support once more and post here in feedback.

From here on out to avoid moderator actions & to comply with forums rules I will refer to the reddit user as "John Doe"

This isn’t even about getting the Azima back anymore it’s about the principle of a player getting preferential treatment. So John Doe posted on reddit:
- Ok, so as per title. I acquired the azima on my 100 day of play (currently 471 days), and not knowing much about the game I stupidly sold it off for some creds. Now, is there anyway I could get this back? I have a riven for it and would like to put it to some use

After 48 minutes a [DE] staff member responded to his ticket:
- As a one-time only courtesy of DE, I’ve added an Unranked version of this item to your inventory. Know that in the future, if you sell this item again, we will not be able to restore it a second time.

As clearly stated in DE’s Common Support thread:
- "I sold an item by mistake, is there any way I can have it back?"
Absolutely. Any item you've sold within the last 7 days, preferably within 24-48 hours) can be restored back to it's original state.

Myself and many players made the exact same mistake and time and time again every single one of us was rejected for the same reasoning and getting the same robotic reply:
- You're not eligible for reversal because too much time has passed.
- Please understand that in order for us to reverse a sale you need to inform us as soon as possible.
- We are sorry we couldn't be of more help

So our outrage that a player taking 371 log in days, which is 364 days (Assuming he played every day) over “restored back to it’s original state” In John Doe case he had an unranked version restored to him so he can use his new Azima riven. The reasoning that “all cases are different” can not be deemed acceptable when the clearly stated the reasoning on reddit. I don’t have the numbers but going by reddit and the forums support has had a fair few tickets regarding their sold Azima.

It’s been 14 months since [DE] Steve said in DevStream #100 that they will introduce a way for players to re-obtain sold login weapons, there have been some good suggestions such as selling the blueprint on the market once you’ve unlocked them to having them as a Cephalon Simaris offering.

[GinKenshin]

It’s also been 14 months since they said that they wanna do solo extraction in endless missions and they know it’s a problem...look where we are now, brought up after 14 months and the guy that discussed it even forgot about it (no shame though, people forget and being a game dev is taxing). 

 

I just dont understand why such an important QoL is being delayed. I’m no dev but I don’t see how hard it is to add the bp in the market after you’ve done the quest 

[More-L]

Unlike quest frames, login weapons cannot be re-obtained by any means. DE should simply give a blueprint for the weapon when you get it from the login. I honestly don't see how it would take more than a few minutes of time or effort to add in something that simple. This way in the unbelievably unlikely situation someone looses both the weapon and blueprint support can just add a blueprint to your account which I really cant see being that difficult because you essentially have infinite blueprint storage.

[VanFanel1980mx]

What if certain login reward weapon blueprints were made available from the market but only restricted by the amount of consecutive days logged in? that is, once you reach 100, 200, 300, etc. you are able to purchase them? that of course means no potato installed or free slot.

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

I just dont understand why such an important QoL is being delayed.

Perhaps DE doesn't see it as important. The modes without individual extraction have been the same way for years. Do you really think it is easy to change it?

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I think it'll either get locked or deleted to hide today's actions. I'm getting people involved that will hopefully approach DE on a more professional level to get answers and address this as people want their Azima's back, there is even a couple of stories of people selling their Zenistar, yes I thought the same thing when I heard that too.

Taking your issue to the forums and going the conspiracy route is probably not going to help you.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

So our outrage that a player taking 371 log in days, which is 364 days (Assuming he played every day) over “restored back to it’s original state” In John Doe case he had an unranked version restored to him so he can use his new Azima riven. The reasoning that “all cases are different” can not be deemed acceptable when the clearly stated the reasoning on reddit.

It would appear that you have your answer then...

You have no cause for outrage if the answer you are getting is consistent

What you are outraged about is the single deviation from that consistent rule you know of...That doesn't entitle you to special considerations for your own case insomuch as it does give DE a reason to backtrack on the deviant scenario

Should DE have come up with an agreeable solution for all parties instead? In my opinion...Yes.

But they haven't at this point and peddling outrage likely won't make it happen any faster.

Add it to feedback here and plan to bring it up in the next devstream list of questions.

[trst]

This all seems less like "DE giving preferential treatment to players" and more "one DE employee gave preferential treatment to a player".

 

Unless there is documented proof of this exception being made multiple times then there is nothing here to cause any outrage over. Just keep pushing DE to make the market addition they talked about.

However if there are multiple instanced of this occurring only then is there reason to have concerns over support consistency.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Is that your first “mistake”?

[GinKenshin]

5 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Perhaps DE doesn't see it as important. The modes without individual extraction have been the same way for years. Do you really think it is easy to change it?

Not talking about that, pretty sure that is hard to do, I’m talking about the bod being in the market or how you can reaquire 1-time items 

[Joe_Barbarian]

7 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

What if certain login reward weapon blueprints were made available from the market but only restricted by the amount of consecutive days logged in? that is, once you reach 100, 200, 300, etc. you are able to purchase them? that of course means no potato installed or free slot.

As mentioned that was already a suggestion made my DE Steve 14 months ago.

4 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

It would appear that you have your answer then...

You have no cause for outrage if the answer you are getting is consistent

What you are outraged about is the single deviation from that consistent rule you know of...That doesn't entitle you to special considerations for your own case insomuch as it does give DE a reason to backtrack on the deviant scenario

Should DE have come up with an agreeable solution for all parties instead? In my opinion...Yes.

But they haven't at this point and peddling outrage likely won't make it happen any faster.

Add it to feedback here and plan to bring it up in the next devstream list of questions.

That lengthy post was in fact in feedback but got moved here. Moderators, I have asked for it to be brought up at previous devstreams nothing. 

1 hour ago, trst said:

This all seems less like "DE giving preferential treatment to players" and more "one DE employee gave preferential treatment to a player".

 

Unless there is documented proof of this exception being made multiple times then there is nothing here to cause any outrage over. Just keep pushing DE to make the market addition they talked about.

However if there are multiple instanced of this occurring only then is there reason to have concerns over support consistency.

It's been 14 months I've done my fair share of pushing in the past with nothing to show for it. And okay, so out of all the people that have asked for their Log in weapons back and got rejected just have to put up with someone getting theirs back despite them being in the exact same boat as everyone else? Smart.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Is that your first “mistake”?

The only other time I've asked for something was when an extraction failed after an hour long Kuva Survival and I requested the Kuva to be returned.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Joe_Barbarian

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

That lengthy post was in fact in feedback but got moved here. Moderators, I have asked for it to be brought up at previous devstreams nothing. 

I can tell that the issue is annoying you greatly and you are working to keep it classy....I understand the first and applaud the second.

It's a shame that they haven't come up with a mutually acceptable remedy for the issue by now and I hope they do implement one in the future.

I would personally prefer that the log-in rewards be indestructible, non-tradeable, and unsalable (I hate trying to remember how to spell that word)....in other words, provided it's the only copy of the item, it's not able to be gotten rid of by any means.

Best thing to do now is accept that it is what it is and allow their stance to help guide your future decisions with the game...Whatever that decision might be.

[Dabnician]

17 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Some staff answering tickets do things by the book, everything else be damned.  You're 8 days after accidently selling a weapon?  Well you don't get it back.
Some staff are much more lenient.  You sold an item you can't get back?  Well no harm in giving it back to you... 

Really the most you can do is resubmit your ticket with this as evidence.  But from what it looks like the other guy just got a more lenient support member.

One of my buddies noticed his Excalibur Prime was missing after getting umbra, i was like no you dont use your non prime to craft it....contact support....

support stated that he sold it back in feb and restored it to him, infact he only waited i think 2 or 3 days for support to contact him back.

 

really depends on who you get and in that case i guess how much you already spent cause hes a grand master

[Joe_Barbarian]

Just now, Dabnician said:

One of my buddies noticed his Excalibur Prime was missing after getting umbra, i was like no you dont use your non prime to craft it....contact support....

support stated that he sold it back in feb and restored it to him, infact he only waited i think 2 or 3 days for support to contact him back.

 

really depends on who you get and in that case i guess how much you already spent cause hes a grand master

See it's that kind of preferential treatment by support has to stop, you can't have 1 rule for one person and then another for others. Not saying it does but it will leave a extreme sour taste in my mouth if it depends how much money you've thrown at the game to get these so called one-time only exceptions.

I'll be interested to hear more about your friends interaction with support as I've been asked to forward any similar behaviour to some people that have bigger drums than I do.

[Dabnician]

10 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

See it's that kind of preferential treatment by support has to stop, you can't have 1 rule for one person and then another for others. Not saying it does but it will leave a extreme sour taste in my mouth if it depends how much money you've thrown at the game to get these so called one-time only exceptions.

I'll be interested to hear more about your friends interaction with support as I've been asked to forward any similar behaviour to some people that have bigger drums than I do.

If you makes you feel better im a founder too and i didnt get a response for 3 weeks until i said "im good cancel my request" after which i got a immediate response with in 24 hours.

[carbman95]

Like someone said, it probably depends on who reads your ticket. I accidentally sold one of regular chroma bp back when only chroma existed. I was selling a bunch of stuff so I didnt see it. After a few months when I wanted to build chroma I figured out that I have sold bp for one part of him, this is the reply: 

Support December 18, 2017 06:53

Hello carbman95,

Thank you for contacting us! I have reviewed your account and I can confirm that you sold the item(s) mentioned. Due to the difference in time between the sale and you reporting this, we will be unable to reverse this transaction. 
However, as a one time courtesy to you, I have manually given you the mentioned item(s) and you should see the item(s) back in your inventory! Please be more careful in the future as we may not always be able to restore lost or sold item(s).

Happy Hunting Tenno!

I didn't expect this, and I was pleasantly surprised, hope you get a similar solution in the future.

[Marvelous_A]

Sorry to hear that but honestly I don't see much of a problem here.

Some staff might just try to be nice and make an exception according to their standard. If you are lucky, it's cool, if you don't, you are just getting the reply you're supposed to get. It's still your mistake and DE don't have the obligation to fix it. But they don't want to make it a written rule coz a lot of unreasonable request will come afterwards and increase their workload further.

Personally I'd just let it slip.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

5 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

The only other time I've asked for something was when an extraction failed after an hour long Kuva Survival and I requested the Kuva to be returned.

And you got it? It could be the reason because system is based on: One-time only courtesy of DE and the system simply doesn’t make difference between refunds.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Sorry to hear that but honestly I don't see much of a problem here.

Some staff might just try to be nice and make an exception according to their standard. If you are lucky, it's cool, if you don't, you are just getting the reply you're supposed to get. It's still your mistake and DE don't have the obligation to fix it. But they don't want to make it a written rule coz a lot of unreasonable request will come afterwards and increase their workload further.

Personally I'd just let it slip.

Is it a mistake though? Is the item flagged or noted as unobtainable anywhere in-game? Why should the player be solely responsible for knowing which items and blueprints cannot be replicated?

In the end this is just another example of bad game design. You can white knight it all you want but this has been a problem far too long for DE to not have a way to replace these items, either in-game or from support.

What's sad is that other persistent online games have policies in place to ensure that the customer is protected and that items like these can be restored. Why is DE exempted from this?