Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

[Rakosta_Kai]

12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

None of the above? I'm simply keeping an open mind and wish to encourage others to do the same thing.

Yes, I'm suggesting that people don't get so defensive, I don't see how there's any need for it.

Oh, you're comments here and elsewhere would definitely peg you as one of the above imo bud... And there's no shame in that.

I understand that you choose to identify as "none of the above" though and I respect your stance. 

That said, please understand that when I say, "I don't care"...I'm not being endeavoring to be dismissive.

I, honestly, don't care.

I'm telling you, and others of like mind, to not get so defensive about the response you see here....It's natural given the venue and each of those company's track records.

10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes, I've already stated as much, GD is not the place for this.

But I wholly expect similar comments to appear even if it were in feedback.

It wouldn't be attached to Anthem as cause of the request in the Feedback/Bug Forums so where would the need for these comments be?

I haven't made any secret of the fact that I find this thread divisive...Even if there are relevant take-a-ways they will get mired under by partisan jockeying in either direction just given the venue the thread is located in.

11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I... don't count that as a skin at all to be honest with you.

I hear ya and respectfully disagree since it covers the entire body.

12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Ignoring the fact that it appears slightly buggy with Garuda and seems to apply differently to her, on it's own it's barely noticeable unless you take an unrealistic amount of damage.

And doesn't work at all with some frames it seems and could get fixed with a much needed toggle for sigils and regalia in the arsenal imo. 

That said, it is a step in the right direction though toward generic skins/vinyls 

The direction simply needs to be encouraged instead of the amount of suing for cause evident in this thread.

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Garuda is ofc not the only example, what about Baruuk? Additional cosmetics for new frames would sell.

Doesn't change the fact that DE have continued to make them, and could easily monetise it.

They release bundles with each frame and they contain cosmetics. Since they still do so, people are clearly buying bundles.

 If you are saying "add vinyls" or "add generic skins" to them that's, again, province for Feedback.

Attaching it to "...'Cuz Anthem" seems like it would have the opposite effect to me.(...Not saying you are doing this directly, but it is the sentiment evident in this thread).

  

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Given EA and Bioware's reputations for being predatory, it had better be the first thing on their mind... Because it's the first thing on almost everyone else's.

People tend to think of EA and Bioware as 2 different entities. Or rather as Bioware being the poor shackled slave of EA. Truth is there's few developers out there that have as much respect and love from gamers as Bioware. Certainly DE don't even come close, if we look at the big picture. For every person who refuses to buy Anthem regardless of reviews because it's a EA game, there'll be one person who'll buy it regardless of reviews because it's a Bioware game.

[DeMonkey]

20 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Oh, you're comments here and elsewhere would definitely peg you as one of the above imo bud... And there's no shame in that.

Because I've focused my efforts on arguing against those who are defensive?

I have issues with each game, but I'm giving Anthem as fair a shot as I have Warframe. I want both games to succeed, as that creates competition. I want people to be able to have an open mind, instead of making ridiculous assertions like, "I will always side with Warframe".

21 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

And doesn't work at all with some frames it seems and could get fixed with a much needed toggle for sigils and regalia in the arsenal imo. 

That said, it is a step in the right direction though toward generic skins/vinyls 

The direction simply needs to be encouraged instead of the amount of suing for cause evident in this thread.

Perhaps, but that doesn't change the point imo. Immortal skin work has continued regardless of profitability.

Given it's continued regardless, why not slap a price on it so that it can actually be profitable.

22 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Attaching it to "...'Cuz Anthem" seems like it would have the opposite effect to me.(...Not saying you are doing this directly, but it is the sentiment evident in this thread).

Again, perhaps, but I don't see why that should change anything. It's fine to say, "I'd like this", but it's better (again, imo) to say, "I'd like this, and this is an example of it done right".

Material selection, wear and tear etc is done right by Anthem.

[Arcira]

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

So Warframe fans shouldn't be Warframe fans on a Warframe forum now? K.

A fanatic and a fan are two different things. I like warframe but I see the problems as well. Therefore I might connive flaws but I´m not going to sugarcoat them if someone asks me about a neutral evaluation.

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

How do you "expose hate and fake arguments" with no basis to do so to begin with? That sounds a bit disingenuous to me.

If you want to explain certain "arguments" to me fine maybe I change my mind. But most of the time people don´t even want talk about it or simply try to change subject. I´m sorry what are we talking about again?

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Again, you are on the Warframe Forum...You can hope for objective and reasonable discussion regarding another game...But you shouldn't necessarily expect it....That's Sociology 101.

Regrettably, This is a concept that appears to be eluding you and a number of others.

The fact something is as it is doesn´t mean to it has to or even should be this way. Obviously there are people with different opinions and I agree a lot of people are biased. Nonetheless this isn´t a reason for me to deny them another perspective.

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

As to context...

What we do know is that Warframe has been around for 5 years, been constantly iterated, and has remained profitable in a F2P setting.

But, as you noted, you disagree that this (even though it's objective fact) is actually the operatively important question.

Ok that´s definitively not what I said. You should probably read again or maybe the last point about humility clarify things? On a personal note I think it is a least as important to ask why something fails because this question is far more easy to answer and understand in most cases.

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Given EA and Bioware's reputations for being predatory, it had better be the first thing on their mind... Because it's the first thing on almost everyone else's.

Do I trust them not to royally screw me over this time around? Is the largest question Anthem has around it...but you and others are on "What Warframe can learn from it".

DE had to figure out a way to do it with a F2P model while maintaining profitability

Arenanet had to do the same thing.

Bioware's only live service endeavor does none of these things and asks that you either pay 140 bucks a year in a sub or enjoy very limited access and pay 40 bucks a year instead to keep up with the narrative. 

You seem to expect a different outcome even though it's being managed by the same group.

Nothing of this is relevant for the discussion in any way. DE has to decide for themself whether a mechanic it´s reasonable to implement or not. "I´d like to have such a system in warframe" is feedback. "EA sucks" is not. At least I think so but maybe you can clarify. On the other hand if I´d say: "don´t waste time on that and improve xy"... it´s unfriendly yes, but at least it´s feedback.

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

-It's been tested and still is...Where's the discussion? Specious.

So.. apparently you agree we don´t need people suggesting the opposite? Which brings me back to people not actually giving feedback...

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

-"Worth" assigns motive... In this case profit. They've had skins and they don't make them often now for market...Why do we think that is? Had it proved profitable they'd continue doing it...Instead, they implemented tennogen which gets increased regularly... Obvious profit channel. Specious.

This doesn´t answer the question. If people are interested in something doesn´t this mean they are willing to pay for it? At least I think that´s how supply and demand works. Of cause there is a risk and of cause you need enought customer but that´s probably a known fact. You have to evaluate whether something is worth it or not, always. Which brings me back to people not actually giving feedback...

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

-Since there is no evidence of that having happened...Why bring it up? Specious.

Ever heard of humility? People who think about themself as perfect tend to reject advice or ideas from others. I probably don´t need to tell you why this can be problematic.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Arcira

[Rakosta_Kai]

48 minutes ago, rune_me said:

People tend to think of EA and Bioware as 2 different entities. Or rather as Bioware being the poor shackled slave of EA. Truth is there's few developers out there that have as much respect and love from gamers as Bioware. Certainly DE don't even come close, if we look at the big picture. For every person who refuses to buy Anthem regardless of reviews because it's a EA game, there'll be one person who'll buy it regardless of reviews because it's a Bioware game.

There's certainly truth to this and it was an opinion I shared, for the most part, as well until Andromeda launched.

The question isn't how many people they are going to get purchasing the game or pre-orders, in my mind, but on how good their quality of service and business practices are.

Those are the things that retains customers and allows communities to flourish long term.

I completely agree with your assessment and am positive they'll get a bunch of players at launch...But will they keep them for 3-6 months? Playing the demos has left me with questions about what the game will look like in 3-6 months down the road which is why I hold a different opinion on what an important comparison looks like.

Let's just say that my questions are big enough to me that I have cancelled my purchase option and told my friends that I am sitting out a while until I know a bit more..Fortunately the tiered launch will speak volumes to much of this early.

 

[birdobash]

1. I don't think a combo system would work too well in a game like warframe, since that would entail having to switch weapons on the fly to maximize value which seems clunky(something anthem doesn't have a problem with because each javelin has different damage types associated with them or different abilities with synergistic damage types) anyway, warframes damage system is still kind of broken and weird, seeing as some enemies we can 1 shot 100x over, while some can take 100 shots.

2. I would love some sort of texture customization to frames, although I think we do kiiiind of have something like this in the form of alternate skins, we don't have the level of customization that anthem currently has (plus I'm assuming all of it would cost plat). What I personally would like more is a color wheel instead of a palette for each color palette, because sometimes you want an in between of a color, but the palette is like naw dude.

3. This is something that I WISH they had from the start, I find it super weird that all frames have not just one but TWO idle animations, yet they ALL have the exact same movement animations, super weird for frames like Titania who have idle animations where she flies, and decides to reeeee back to the ground and jog. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Because I've focused my efforts on arguing against those who are defensive?

I have issues with each game, but I'm giving Anthem as fair a shot as I have Warframe. I want both games to succeed, as that creates competition. I want people to be able to have an open mind, instead of making ridiculous assertions like, "I will always side with Warframe".

No, Because you already cited being disgruntled with powercreep, balance and difficulty in Warframe in this and numerous other threads.

As to the rest, I completely agree on all counts save one...

Asking people to be open minded is fine...Bashing them for choosing not to be, in their own forum, is not.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Perhaps, but that doesn't change the point imo. Immortal skin work has continued regardless of profitability.

Given it's continued regardless, why not slap a price on it so that it can actually be profitable.

Given that the point is "Vinyls in Warframe"...I think it does actually.

On Immortal Skins... I don't think it is profitable...Admittedly I don't know for certain aside from the fact that DE doesn't choose to monetize them now.

The fact that they use subsequent iterations as enticement to play as opposed to pay seem to support this as well.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Again, perhaps, but I don't see why that should change anything. It's fine to say, "I'd like this", but it's better (again, imo) to say, "I'd like this, and this is an example of it done right".

Material selection, wear and tear etc is done right by Anthem.

Depends doesn't it?

Because, imo, just by arguing that people are giving push-back on ideas related to Anthem features should be enough to tell anyone that tying the two together won't net adoption any faster.

For example, you saying,"Material selection, wear and tear,etc is done right by Anthem" is a perfectly acceptable opinion.

So what about the player who says, "I think material selection, wear, and tear, etc is a cheap gimmick... Warframe should choose to remain distinctive and choose it's own path.".

Both are opinion with equal weight, with stances I understand, using examples I can readily identify with.

Why is one acceptable and the other not?

Why is one open minded and the other not?

[DeMonkey]

19 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Bashing them for choosing not to be, in their own forum, is not.

Well, to that I disagree on principle.

19 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Given that the point is "Vinyls in Warframe"...I think it does actually.

On Immortal Skins... I don't think it is profitable...Admittedly I don't know for certain aside from the fact that DE doesn't choose to monetize them now.

The fact that they use subsequent iterations as enticement to play as opposed to pay seem to support this as well.

Fair, I don't necessarily agree because I feel they can easily be monetised, but I guess we'll never know.

19 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

So what about the player who says, "I think material selection, wear, and tear, etc is a cheap gimmick... Warframe should choose to remain distinctive and choose it's own path.".

Both are opinion with equal weight, with stances I understand, using examples I can readily identify with.

Why is one acceptable and the other not?

Why is one open minded and the other not?

That's not what I'm arguing against.

I'm arguing against those who say no just because it's from Anthem. If the above argument is provided, then I can retort that Warframe has already started down this path with the Bloodshed sigil. A debate can take place.

Jumping into a thread and exclaiming that "Warframe needs nothing from Anthem" is what I'm against.

Edited February 5, 2019 by DeMonkey

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Arcira said:

A fanatic and a fan are two different things. I like warframe but I see the problems as well. Therefore I might connive flaws but I´m not going to sugarcoat them if someone asks me about a neutral evaluation.

Actually they aren't...Fan is the shortened form of the word Fanatic.

Regardless, the attempt at imagery was amusing though.

What you have is an opinion...It has no more or less weight than another person's opinion.

1 hour ago, Arcira said:

If you want to explain certain "arguments" to me fine maybe I change my mind. But most of the time people don´t even want talk about it or simply try to change subject. I´m sorry what are we talking about again?

Given that you are the one questing to "expose hate and fake arguments" you should probably remember why.

Do recall...I quoted you directly.

1 hour ago, Arcira said:

The fact something is as it is doesn´t mean to it has to or even should be this way. Obviously there are people with different opinions and I agree a lot of people are biased. Nonetheless this isn´t a reason for me to deny them another perspective

But that's exactly what you did by deriding them...You don't realize that?

Did you forget that too? Don't worry, just look up ↑ ...'cuz you did it with your fan comments too.

1 hour ago, Arcira said:

Ok that´s definitively not what I said. You should probably read again or maybe the last point about humility clarify things? On a personal note I think it is a least as important to ask why something fails because this question is far more easy to answer and understand in most cases.

Actually, Now I've answered it twice..

Once before you ever commented to it(it's what caused you to spout about being humble, etc) and again in the post you cited regarding context.

But, let me spell it out for you much more clearly...

Warframe has absolutely nothing to learn from Bioware about profitably and successfully running a live service.

...Do take a moment and let that notion sink in.

Facts, are plain and simple, they don't have to be humble.

Both have had live services for that period but only one has been year over year profitable.

You can continue to say" Warframe can learn something from Anthem" and I am going to continue to inform you that it won't be anything important.

• Skins...We already do them.
• Vinyls? Do/Did/and Do them again
• Flight? Eh? Flight in Anthem looks nifty but sucks on PC...It's actually pretty awesome on consoles though.

So what is Anthem going to teach? Animations? @DeMonkey said animations, you like that one too?

How is that Anthem teaching something though?  Put simply, it isn't.

...Which take us back to my very first reply to you.

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

So.. apparently you agree we don´t need people suggesting the opposite? Which brings me back to people not actually giving feedback...

Incorrect...

I am saying people asking for things to be tried out that actually already exist is specious... Because saying something that already exists needs to be added is always specious.

Likewise, the way you chose to phrase that was also specious which appears to be the beginning of a trend.

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

This doesn´t answer the question.

Actually, it does in the vein of  "If it don't make dollars...It don't make sense".

ROI is important.

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

If people are interested in something doesn´t this mean they are willing to pay for it?

No... It merely suggests they might be if they see enough value in it.

How many immortal skins did you purchase?

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

Ever heard of humility? People who think about themself as perfect tend to reject advice or ideas from others. I probably don´t need to tell you why this can be problematic.

Ever heard of a mirror?

• You seem to be under the impression that your opinion is the only correct one even in the face of having had it proved false...twice.
• You appear to assume that some delightful idea someone else pulled from Anthem should be a CTA for Warframe...Even when the bulk of the ideas are obviously redundant.
• You treat, with derision, dissenting opinions as you don't agree with them. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Well, to that I disagree on principle.

So do I.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Fair, I don't necessarily agree because I feel they can easily be monetised, but I guess we'll never know.

We know that they once were and subsequent versions aren't now.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

That's not what I'm arguing against.

I'm arguing against those who say no just because it's from Anthem. If the above argument is provided, then I can retort that Warframe has already started down this path with the Bloodshed sigil. A debate can take place.

Jumping into a thread and exclaiming that "Warframe needs nothing from Anthem" is what I'm against.

Naysayers say Nay...It's what they do.

The problem in the Anthem case is that most of the stuff being asked for is redundant.

Granted, some stuff is not though.

I don't know why that stuff needs to be prefaced with Anthem though if it's just a good idea for Warframe or has been asked for before.

To me, that seems like a knock against innate diversity.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

I don't know why that stuff needs to be prefaced with Anthem though if it's just a good idea for Warframe or has been asked for before.

To me, that seems like a knock against innate diversity.

Like I said, it's one thing to say "I like this" and give a vague description, but quite another to say "I like this" and actually show something.

Same goes for everything, asking for K-Drive races is one thing, holding up SSX on Tour and going "This is the bomb, give me this with hoverboards" is somewhat more enlightening and sounds a tad more interesting if I'm honest. Such comparisons are made relatively often, and generally don't result in the blow back on display here.

Would K-Drive races be redundant? Absolutely, they'd serve no purpose and would be forgotten about within weeks. But at the same time, would such a thread be wrong? Would such a comparison be wrong to make? Would you expect to see the same blow back?

It's disproportionate.

[Arcira]

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Actually they aren't...Fan is the shortened form of the word Fanatic.

Regardless, the attempt at imagery was amusing though.

What you have is an opinion...It has no more or less weight than another person's opinion.

Yep that seems correct. I´m not very good in english nonetheless I think you are quite aware what I´m actually talking about beyond my phrasing. Fanatism is probably one of the bigger problems in this world.

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Given that you are the one questing to "expose hate and fake arguments" you should probably remember why.

Do recall...I quoted you directly.

Not sure if I get that but I think you are asking me an example? Fine, here is one:

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Actually, Now I've answered it twice..

Once before you ever commented to it(it's what caused you to spout about being humble, etc) and again in the post you cited regarding context.

But, let me spell it out for you much more clearly...

Warframe has absolutely nothing to learn from Bioware about profitably and successfully running a live service. 

...Do take a moment and let that notion sink in.

Facts, are plain and simple, they don't have to be humble.

Both have had live services for that period but only one has been year over year profitable.

You can continue to say" Warframe can learn something from Anthem" and I am going to continue to inform you that it won't be anything important.

• Skins...We already do them.
• Vinyls? Do/Did/and Do them again 
• Flight? Eh? Flight in Anthem looks nifty but sucks on PC...It's actually pretty awesome on consoles though.

So what is Anthem going to teach? Animations? @DeMonkey said animations, you like that one too?

How is that Anthem teaching something though?  Put simply, it isn't. 

...Which take us back to my very first reply to you. 

Especially this part: "Warframe has absolutely nothing to learn from Bioware about profitably and successfully running a live service"

That´s the arrogant behaviour I´m talking about. Maybe this is the case maybe not you simply can´t know it. You are just telling everyone "don´t even bother looking" it´s not warframe and literally everything they do is inferior.

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

But that's exactly what you did by deriding them...You don't realize that?

Did you forget that too? Don't worry, just look up ↑ ...'cuz you did it with your fan comments too.

I did what? I´m struggling to understand what you want to tell me here.

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Incorrect...

I am saying people asking for things to be tried out that actually already exist is specious... Because saying something that already exists needs to be added is always specious.

Likewise, the way you chose to phrase that was also specious which appears to be the beginning of a trend.

The way I choose the phrasing is to bring you back on track with the actual topic. I don´t know what you are replying to but it isn´t what you are quoting for some reason. 

It doesn´t even make sense either. Why would someone want something they already have? Or is this some kind of distraction again?

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

No... It merely suggests they might be if they see enough value in it.

How many immortal skins did you purchase?

1.) Is there a specific reason you are cutting my sentences so that your comments looks different from what I said? That´s what supply and demand means as far as I know.

2.) I think two why does it matter though? Do you think opinions and taste stagnate and things that are true now will be for all eternity?

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Ever heard of a mirror?

• You seem to be under the impression that your opinion is the only correct one even in the face of having had it proved false...twice.
• You appear to assume that some delightful idea someone else pulled from Anthem should be a CTA for Warframe...Even when the bulk of the ideas are obviously redundant.
• You treat, with derision, dissenting opinions as you don't agree with them. 

"I´m constantly asking you to explain what are the logical flaws in your opinion. Why do you think I´m under the impression my opinion is the only one?"

"I´m saying we need to have a discussion about suggestions not bury them without recognition. Even if we have to do it over and over again opinions and knowledge change and so do possibilities"

That´s probably what I could answer if it had anything to do with what you quoted. I simply stated I think arrogance is harmful nothing more nothing less. Let´s keep it simple: Do you really think that warframe does everything right and other games everything wrong? Because that´s how you make it sound like.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Arcira

[Olphalarepth]

6 hours ago, rune_me said:

People tend to think of EA and Bioware as 2 different entities. Or rather as Bioware being the poor shackled slave of EA. Truth is there's few developers out there that have as much respect and love from gamers as Bioware. Certainly DE don't even come close, if we look at the big picture. For every person who refuses to buy Anthem regardless of reviews because it's a EA game, there'll be one person who'll buy it regardless of reviews because it's a Bioware game.

EA stock market and very poor BFV sales  strongly disagree with you. I don't want to derail the topic but EA has basically committed a suicide pr campaign for reasons I will not explain here and the players really punished them HARD. They doubled down several times proving they learned nothing and now they are treated as of consequence since they proved quality games and player satisfaction are NOT their objectives. Bioware is appreciated for some of the games they developed but EA has already been pushing for an early release despite the bugs and a not so bright demo that felt more like a beta, couple it with fierce competition of other games (and I'm not even counting warframe since it's a free to play) and their very well known greed and predatory practices.....

Simply put, if I had a 60 bucks to spend on a game of my choice I would not even consider anthem right now. There are better games around (IMHO)

 

EDIT

OH yeah, EA and Bioware are two different entities but it's EA that is in charge. They don't hesitate in slightest closing studios they bought if they don't earn millions. They have done it multiple times without regards for player base of that game. Bioware is owned by EA and they have the saying in how the game is shaped.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Zeclem said:

exactly my point. things in wf doesnt change either. only thing that changes are, just like anthem, numbers. enemies hit harder and so will you. only difference is in anthem you get progression from doing that, in warframe de actively avoids that to keep content "bite sized" for some reason. 

Wow! You really do not understand the differences. Enemies hitting harder, us hitting harder etc. is not the issue. I'll try and explain it really slowly this time ok.

In WF and most other games things get harder, or as I said maybe not so much in WF because it is a power fantasy. There is nothing wrong with either of that, it is simply how games are made, or how games become different from eachother. Now onto the bad apple kinda system that Anthem is part of.

In Anthem, you are always matched to the level of enemies. This is what is refered to as a PL-gated game, which is very unlike your regular level-gated games. PL and LvL is not even near the same thing. In a PL-gated game you pretty much never progress, you may think that you progress but you never do. You fight your PL175 enemies in your PL150 gear, they always have the same damage output. You get a set of PL200 gear and you start fighting PL225 enemies. Those same enenmies hit for the exact same amount as the PL175 mobs did when you had PL150 gear.

In short, no progression, just an illusion to keep you grinding. And when you finaly hit "end-game" it will likely be hardcoded to say PL500 and the highest gear you obtain from there is PL400. The the next end-game comes which sits at PL600 and the best you can get is PL500. In the end, the new end-game is exactly the same difficulty as the previous, with an illusionary progression in the gear hunt. The game never gets harder or easier, it is simply the same. You just grind the same gear over and over to face the same difficulty in mobs. The system often also compltely neglects build variety or min-maxing because too much weight is put on the illusionary PL progression.

 

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, rune_me said:

The thing about looters is, that 95% of the progression is not in the lvl of the character, but in the gear you collect and equip, and the abilities you have avilable. So even when enemies scales with your level, you should still become progressively more powerful if the game is well designed, because your gear becomes better. With access to new skills and better gear, you begin to feel stronger as you have more options available to you. Yeah sure you may technically do the same percentage of damage to the enemy, but if you used to hit one enemy every time you clicked the mouse, when you suddenly have access to an attack that hits one enemy ten times with a fire attack, and a skill that doubles your fire damage, you are still much better off than before. 

And the key part being if. Many of the games that do scale to you dont have those itemization options. And we've already heard here about how lackluster the Anthem gear is aside from some special effects. Which is the most common type of lazy itemization in the PL restricted games. Even D3 falls into this category buy it is slightly better balanced.

There just comes a point in those games where the scaling simply overshadows your progression, because leveling and skill gains stop at one point and then you are at the mercy of the gear progression and how well or poorly made that is. Most often it is poor and limited aswell. This becomes a massive issue in end-game at that point because every "tier" will be the same as the previous and a new grind for the exact same gear.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

19 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

We have FIXES

https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/5/18205886/anthem-biggest-changes-demo-full-game

Good stuff here I think. Thought I'd share with you. 

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/5/18205886/anthem-biggest-changes-demo-full-game

Good stuff here I think. Thought I'd share with you. 

Interesting, I like the confirmation that nothing is locked behind actual money.

I initially assumed that, as with Rainbox Six Siege (also a buy to play game), there might be different tiers of cosmetics with some being premium currency only. As long as a single skin doesn't take 40 hours to unlock and they pull a "sense of pride and accomplishment" type deal, I'm quite happy with this.

[3rdpig]

18 hours ago, rune_me said:

People tend to think of EA and Bioware as 2 different entities. Or rather as Bioware being the poor shackled slave of EA. Truth is there's few developers out there that have as much respect and love from gamers as Bioware. Certainly DE don't even come close, if we look at the big picture. For every person who refuses to buy Anthem regardless of reviews because it's a EA game, there'll be one person who'll buy it regardless of reviews because it's a Bioware game.

I've been playing Bioware games since their first game, Shattered Steel and I used to communicate directly with the founders. In those days Bioware could do no wrong, I'd defend them vehemently to anyone who criticized them.

But the only thing Bioware of those days has in common with today's Bioware is the name. Everything else is gone and any goodwill they built up with me, and it was a lot, was diminished during ME3 and killed off with Andromeda. They have to earn that back again. 

Now they're just another developer under the EA umbrella. To me that means rushed development, poor execution, little to no real interaction with their customers, absurd and invasive monetization and lies about the quality and game play prior to release.

I played the Anthem demo. I was underwhelmed. The movement was slow and klunky IMO and some of my biggest pet peeves with games these days were present in the first 5 minutes of game play. It's Andromeda with a better jetpack, different stories and enemies. After 15-20 minutes I turned it off and uninstalled it. But I guess if you loved Andromeda, which I did not, you may love Anthem. Nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with thinking that Andromeda was a total mess, because it was.

Maybe after it gets 3-4 good reviews, they follow through with support and promised DLC's I'll buy Anthem on a half off sale. And then again, maybe not.

Edited February 5, 2019 by 3rdpig

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

I would have been more interested if anthem was set in the Mass Effect universe but instead we get this just another game for EA..

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

1 hour ago, 3rdpig said:

I've been playing Bioware games since their first game, Shattered Steel and I used to communicate directly with the founders. In those days Bioware could do no wrong, I'd defend them vehemently to anyone who criticized them.

But the only thing Bioware of those days has in common with today's Bioware is the name. Everything else is gone and any goodwill they built up with me, and it was a lot, was diminished during ME3 and killed off with Andromeda. They have to earn that back again. 

Now they're just another developer under the EA umbrella. To me that means rushed development, poor execution, little to no real interaction with their customers, absurd and invasive monetization and lies about the quality and game play prior to release.

I played the Anthem demo. I was underwhelmed. The movement was slow and klunky IMO and some of my biggest pet peeves with games these days were present in the first 5 minutes of game play. It's Andromeda with a better jetpack, different stories and enemies. After 15-20 minutes I turned it off and uninstalled it. But I guess if you loved Andromeda, which I did not, you may love Anthem. Nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with thinking that Andromeda was a total mess, because it was.

Maybe after it gets 3-4 good reviews, they follow through with support and promised DLC's I'll buy Anthem on a half off sale. And then again, maybe not.

Funny enough, I am on the opposite end of that spectrum. I loved ME3 because of it's MP and combat with the citadel dlc making me love it even more. I also think Andromeda is the best out of the ME games because the combat and customization was the best from the ME games. Story is more a side thing to me because I value game-play more.

So when I played Anthem, I was quite happy with it because it was a refined MEA combat system with better customization which is exactly what I wanted. I am already planning to keep my pre-order for the game. This is coming from someone who started with ME1 as well.

I found the game to be more enjoyable than WF because WF feels like a grind in whatever task you do now adays while Anthem doesn't for me.

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

Funny enough, I am on the opposite end of that spectrum. I loved ME3 because of it's MP and combat with the citadel dlc making me love it even more. I also think Andromeda is the best out of the ME games because the combat and customization was the best from the ME games. Story is more a side thing to me because I value game-play more.

So when I played Anthem, I was quite happy with it because it was a refined MEA combat system with better customization which is exactly what I wanted. I am already planning to keep my pre-order for the game. This is coming from someone who started with ME1 as well.

I found the game to be more enjoyable than WF because WF feels like a grind in whatever task you do now adays while Anthem doesn't for me.

Well Anthem doesn't even have a grind yet because I don't know like it's still just a demo.... 

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I found the game to be more enjoyable than WF because WF feels like a grind in whatever task you do now adays while Anthem doesn't for me.

Errr, my dude, this kind of thing is still up in the air. We will see the level of grind only on the 15th. And even then, we will have to see how much Gold you get depending on various factors like Difficulty Level and Mission Type.

Its too early to call Anthem less grindy than Warframe. Give it 3 weeks or so after everyone starts playing on the 22nd.

[Rakosta_Kai]

12 hours ago, Arcira said:

-

-That's ok because the word is latin to begin with.

-Poor ³ example because nothing said in it pertains to either hate or fake news. Facts are just that...Facts.

-Facts ³ aren't human and don't suffer from arrogance... You³ merely choose to presume arrogance. The rest of your commentary here ^{1, 3} presumes something I have neither said nor implied. I can't help that your ideas and opinions are derivative in their redundancy and don't even begin to care to do so.

-Yes²... All I can do is point out what the ideas are and point out how they are already redundant...You may continue to ignore them and I would ask that you stop parroting yourself if you choose this path. Otherwise, speak to what you disagree with specifically without more empty rhetoric or presumptions.

The only tracks at this point are mine. Unless you can speak to how your stance isn't redundant, you have no point. Saying DE should bring XYZ back now cause I want it " 'Cuz Anthem" is fine and dandy...Put it in feedback where it belongs as an action item.

-Why indeed?^{1, 2, 3} I've been asking myself that too. Better yet...I've been asking you. 

-1) Because I find them to be either: irrelevant(1),  redundant(2), or foolish(3).

-2) For example ¹.

• What I think of other's opinions runs a distant second to whether I think it's fair to bash players for not wanting to adopt ideas from another game entirely.

- For example ²

• As it relates to this...There are none.
• That which I said exists...Exists. Want more of it? Go ask in Feedback. Drop the " 'Cuz Anthem" crap and you might get it faster imo.
• That which I think is important or in question...Simply is. DE knows how to make a Live service stay in business and be profitable. Bioware doesn't. SWToR is a 7 yr old game that's been a flop for five of them. 

- For example ³... If someone doesn't like your idea...That doesn't give you cause to bash them simply for not liking it. They have exactly as much right to their opinion as you do.

-Commentary made without context?^{1, 3}

- I ^{1 3} don't think anything is perfect and invite you to cite where I have said different.

What I have said is...²

• That the features most of you are on about already exist in Warframe.
• That DE has nothing to learn from Bioware regarding the important operative questions.

Disagree? Prove me wrong... The insulting parrot routine, useless rhetoric, and presumptions has gotten old.

- No ³, that is merely how you choose to translate what you are reading.

[Arcira]

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

That DE has nothing to learn from Bioware regarding the important operative questions.

Let´s keep it simple: Do you really think that warframe does everything right and other games everything wrong? Because that´s how you make it sound like.

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

- No ³, that is merely how you choose to translate what you are reading.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

17 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Like I said, it's one thing to say "I like this" and give a vague description, but quite another to say "I like this" and actually show something.

Same goes for everything, asking for K-Drive races is one thing, holding up SSX on Tour and going "This is the bomb, give me this with hoverboards" is somewhat more enlightening and sounds a tad more interesting if I'm honest. Such comparisons are made relatively often, and generally don't result in the blow back on display here.

Would K-Drive races be redundant? Absolutely, they'd serve no purpose and would be forgotten about within weeks. But at the same time, would such a thread be wrong? Would such a comparison be wrong to make? Would you expect to see the same blow back?

It's disproportionate.

Truthfully? I don't think so.

We both know how hard players in this game argue for (or against) causes on any number of fronts.

To me, the topical pushback is about average.

What I will say is unique, imo, is the amount of personal attacks purely due to dissenting opinions.

That is, literally, the only thing about this thread that disturbs me

We've both had to sit and read someone else tear ideas we support down for any number of reasons and those debates can get heated... But I rarely see them get this brand of partisan and personal.

I, like you,  want to see both of these games succeed because doing so favors the player. Given how close the genres are there are going to be a large number of Freelancers that are Tenno and vice versa as it is.

But this is the Warframe forum and tagging stuff with " 'Cuz Anthem" is going to get pushback regardless.

This is no different, imo, than the responses to requests for FPS view similar to Destiny or your hypothetical K-Drive reference imo except for(what I would expect to be) the responses to these replies.

...That's just my opinion though. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Padre_Akais