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_Urakaze_

Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

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Seeing the VIP Demo, well the working portion anyway, really have some good mechanics/visuals that Warframe could take reference from.

1. Combo system

I know we have similar things in the form of combined elemental damage types. We can add more depth to it. In addition, this will be a good chance to buff some underperforming status effects/damage types. To illustrate my idea, I will use heat and magnetic as example

fire proc burns enemy and after 3 seconds, soften the armor and enemy armor is reduced by 50% for the duration of the heat proc. If magnetic proc is applied to enemy while the armor is soften, 50% of armor is stripped permanently.

the possibilities are infinite.

2. Customization

let us choose the texture and condition of warframes

3. Movement animation

I like how each javelin have their own movement set that fits their role/style and it adds immersion. Specifically the movement set of interceptor makes it feel more agile, which goes well with the assassin/ninja class

for warframes, we could add several different movement set base on classes/roles/styles that can be changed just like static animation, since adding unique movements for all warframes would be a huge pain

imagine Titania hovers while moving and shooting

another thing is the legs, they should adjust according to the terrain so that two feet are always stepping on the ground. Of course this is not a feature created by Bioware, but it is a nice detail that Warframe can have nonetheless.

 

just my 2cents

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1. We hardly need any more damage creep. Pay attention to the meta and see how NOTHING can stand against us

2. Meh, don't care

3. Hell no. I'd rather the game focus on it own identity and not let devs waste time and resources on something completely useless. Not very helpful, not marginally helpful, useless

EDIT: to be clear about point 1. It's better to revamp status effect all together instead of another flashy system copied from another game and adapted to wrframe.

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19 minutes ago, _Urakaze_ said:

fire proc burns enemy and after 3 seconds, soften the armor and enemy armor is reduced by 50% for the duration of the heat proc. If magnetic proc is applied to enemy while the armor is soften, 50% of armor is stripped permanently.

Your example is... a clunky Corrosive. Why bother setting up a combo like that if you could just mod for Corrosive on your secondary or melee?

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combo system anthem has wouldn't work in warframe as the powers are pure damage, primer an detonators.
DE would have to go into every warframes power to bring in this change.
while anthem is able to do this cause of the set limit of classes an powers they have.

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if you're gonna change fire, you should improve what it's good at instead of trying to make it fulfill the roles of other types. I think making fire into a status that spreads itself would be interesting.Let's say enemies within 5m of burning target have a 50% chance to also be set on fire (for 50% of the damage), per tick of damage. Either that or make it so nearby burning enemies increase the damage. Or both if you wanna make it really awesome.

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On 2019-01-28 at 10:33 PM, Olphalarepth said:

2. Meh, don't care

I do. However Waframe as is, is a vary dated engine. It would be vary vary difficult for DE to get any where near the level of customization Anthem has. 

 

On 2019-01-28 at 10:25 PM, _Urakaze_ said:

just my 2cents

I think if WF can learn anything from Anthem, it's

1. how a open world is supposed to feel. (The verticality and emersivness of it especially)

2. The flow and how powers, weapons and movement need to feel impactful, purposeful. (example- Ordanata missiles, just lol) 

Still stand behind this and now so much more. 

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The problem with combo effect with elements is that we can build whatever elements we want on our weapons, resulting in a single gun being able to strip of 50% of armor permanently with your example. Technically, this is what compound elements are meant to be except it replaces the effect of the 2 basic elements rather than add a 3rd effect on top.

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1) Further: Combo with other players' abilities might be something to consider. 

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1 hour ago, _Urakaze_ said:

Seeing the VIP Demo, well the working portion anyway, really have some good mechanics/visuals that Warframe could take reference from.

1. Combo system

I know we have similar things in the form of combined elemental damage types. We can add more depth to it. In addition, this will be a good chance to buff some underperforming status effects/damage types. To illustrate my idea, I will use heat and magnetic as example

fire proc burns enemy and after 3 seconds, soften the armor and enemy armor is reduced by 50% for the duration of the heat proc. If magnetic proc is applied to enemy while the armor is soften, 50% of armor is stripped permanently.

The average lifespan of enemies in Warframe is about 2 seconds as it is on the outside, with warframes and team compositions that exist able to bring that to under 1 second. In what universe are you going to face enemies that you'll attack, fire proc, let live for 3 seconds, then magnetic proc before finally dealing fatal damage to them that aren't a Teralyst, Mother Orb, or stage-gated bossfight?

In what universe is that remotely worthwhile compared to just having any of a number of warframes and weapons peel the armor off the target in the same timespan?

And, spoiler alert, there is no universe where that is remotely as good as just being able to make a mod change on 3-4 warframes and guarantee no enemy ever spawns with armor in the first place.

Warframe's pace of combat is, by and large, completely incompatible with anything that requires that much setup.

By the by, if you're curious, leveraging elemental combos for compounding damage is exactly Saryn's whole kit, so start from there if you need a weather vane for what a powerful elemental combo is going to look like.

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there is nothing in anthem that WF needs ...

played the demo and to be honest the game is what it is its nothing like WF so no need to compare it

Anthem far to long load times harder to get into a game the game crashes way to often...

its a different game to WF and in no way will it affect players on WF at all....

i play all sorts of online games and single player and still come back to WF in the end daily

 

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Warframe can add a option to change that stupid slide to an actual dash. 

All I learned from that game.

 

P.S.  Its EA.  Can't ****ing buy it.  I still have some morals left guys.

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surface texture variants would be the only feature warframe could learn from Anthem. everything else, not so much.

you could say that updating a warframes movement based on their roles is a good concept, but it is extremely tough to determine the role of each frame. Valkyr is the best example because while she is a tanky frame, she has the physique of a basic warframe. you cant give a warframe like that extreme mobility and you cant give her a lot of weight with her movement either because it would not make sense.

i dont want to say that elemental combinations is a bad concept either, but in warframes current state with power-creep, it simply cannot happen any time soon.

 

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Can't learn from it, because total different types of games. After playing Anthem is more like a 3rd person shooter Division or Destiny.

But the part of skill synergy among players can be considered.

Warframe is a COOP game, but there is zero interaction, because the power of each individual is so high that one snap of fingers kills not half but all of the living beings in the map.

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There isn't that much in the way of game mechanics that Warframe can adapt from Anthem. Anthem has enemies that take 10 seconds to kill one at a time, who can kill you really quickly, and ultimates that work on a cooldown timer. In Warframe, enemies die 1 second after you put your cursor over them, likely killing 3 other dudes in the process, enemies who likely have no avenue of killing you if you are modded properly, and "ultimates" that are restricted purely by energy (Which becomes only a small obstacle when you have corrupted mods, and a non existent one post Zenurik and rage mods). DE could copy the more abstract things, like objectives and raid mechanics, but those could most likely be steamrolled by any group with an iota of coordination, bar something truly heavy handed (Think phase 2 LoR with the button mini game, made me want to kill myself).

As for the appearance side of things, a lot of it would be likely too much work for too little. The different animations would be a lot of work (39 Warframes with 2-4 more every year), and the different textures could easily be very jank and buggy, and would likely take too much work (And possibly go against the art direction of the game). It might seem easy, but programming is never simple. Why update existing things when you can be hard at work making new content with a guaranteed pay off to keep revenue up.

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Quote

I like how each javelin have their own movement set that fits their role/style and it adds immersion. Specifically the movement set of interceptor makes it feel more agile, which goes well with the assassin/ninja class

for warframes, we could add several different movement set base on classes/roles/styles that can be changed just like static animation, since adding unique movements for all warframes would be a huge pain

however, it's imperative that such a thing doesn't actually change the timing of any Movement and doesn't impact your uh... capability to use the Mobility in the game.
which seems like it'll be very restricted in what it could possibly be, or just pointless potentially if alternative Animations have to be cut in order to not impact Player Mobility.

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3 hours ago, _Urakaze_ said:

the possibilities are infinite.

eeeeh.

We already have to remember (do we?) 14 status effects (3 physical, 4 simple elemental, 6 combined elemental, 1 Void). But being able to combine them would result in 91 different unique combinations.

Do you think DE can come up with 91 different status combinations, each with their own flavour and personality? Do you think you can keep 91 combinations in mind and use them effectively? Do you want to see an enemy with a health bar and a list of 50+ different active status effects?

I mean, no. I get what you are saying but it is completely unfeasible in practice in Warframe. DE should start by removing half of the elements if they wanted to do what you are suggesting - and I am against removing a complex system just for the sake of jumping on Anthem's elemental bandwagon.

 

(The elements and their procs should be looked at, in Warframe, but that's another discussion altogether).

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2 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

We already have to remember (do we?) 14 status effects (3 physical, 4 simple elemental, 6 combined elemental, 1 Void). But being able to combine them would result in 91 different unique combinations.

Do you think DE can come up with 91 different status combinations, each with their own flavour and personality? Do you think you can keep 91 combinations in mind and use them effectively? Do you want to see an enemy with a health bar and a list of 50+ different active status effects?

to be fair, Mass Effect kept that spiderweb disaster in check by having categories to theme things by, so even though individual Abilities did a lot of different things, their interactions together were in a controlled number of categories.
and they still got a lot of variety out of that because some Abilities could create interactions more often, some would hit harder when they interacted, Et Cetera.

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2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

to be fair, Mass Effect kept that spiderweb disaster in check by having categories to theme things by, so even though individual Abilities did a lot of different things, their interactions together were in a controlled number of categories.

Mass Effect kept it in check by having four effects (Fire, Ice, Electric, and Biotic) and deciding that the "effect" of combining the two elements was entirely determined by the primer (that's to say, using an ice detonator on a fire-primed would give the same result as using a biotic detonator on a fire-primed enemy).

All in all, Mass Effect (well, I'm referring to 3, these things were completely absent in 1) had a much simpler system: 4 elements (physical damage not being considered one), 3 procs (DoT from fire, no intrinsic proc from electric, no intrinsic proc from biotic, and two possible procs for ice - slowdown for armoured enemies and freezing for unarmoured enemies), and 1 possible combo effect (all of which were the same - an AoE that deals damage of the primer type).

 

True, Mass Effect input flavour through its powers - such as, say, the biotic effect of Singularity being completely different by the biotic effect of Reave, despite both having the same "element". Still, their elemental system was tremendously simple - 4 elements, 3 procs, 1 combo. Warframe has more elements than that.

 

(That said, I do not know how Anthem works, I don't know that it works like in ME3, and my answer was explicitly aimed at what OP suggested).

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No, what DE could learn from Anthem is the flight system and try to apply it to our Archwings. It would make them so much more appealing and easy to use.

Altho I wouldn't mind being able to change textures/materials on the WF, but that would be so much work given how many frames we have.

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I played the Anthem VIP Demo last weekend and I can tell you: Anthem is not going to be a WF Killer or even close to this!

Let's put the obvious reason aside (Connectivity, server status, endless loading) because those happen at demos and will probably be fixed by launch.

Yes, Anthem is a very fun and very unique game and I really enjoyed playing it. The enemies are powerful, you don't plow through hordes and bosses are very satisfying to defeat.

But the game is nothing like Warframe!

WF is made to throw any amount of enemies against you until you are overhelmed but in Anthem even lower enemy numbers are a serious threath to your javelin. There are bosses not even meant to be singled (atleast I couldn't handle him alone), where you are in dire need of a team.

And the enemies in Anthem don't even have a level, we don't even know how they scale yet or if they scale at all.

 

So please, for the love of both games: Stop comparing them with one another!

 

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)Fireworker77 said:

I played the Anthem VIP Demo last weekend and I can tell you: Anthem is not going to be a WF Killer or even close to this!

Let's put the obvious reason aside (Connectivity, server status, endless loading) because those happen at demos and will probably be fixed by launch.

Yes, Anthem is a very fun and very unique game and I really enjoyed playing it. The enemies are powerful, you don't plow through hordes and bosses are very satisfying to defeat.

But the game is nothing like Warframe!

WF is made to throw any amount of enemies against you until you are overhelmed but in Anthem even lower enemy numbers are a serious threath to your javelin. There are bosses not even meant to be singled (atleast I couldn't handle him alone), where you are in dire need of a team.

And the enemies in Anthem don't even have a level, we don't even know how they scale yet or if they scale at all.

 

So please, for the love of both games: Stop comparing them with one another!

 

I'm not saying Anthem is to compete with WF, I'm just saying that the game has things that can be used or modified to make WF better(imo at least). The suggestions above aren't specifically limited to Anthem, I'm sure many other games have similar stuff, but Anthem just happens to be the newest game with those mechanics.

I also need to clarify that the ideas here are inspired by Anthem, not a lesson for WF to learn. If the title gave you wrong impression, I'm sorry.

as for the elemental combos, I'm suggesting adding interactions between 2 elements, not trying to create more compound elements. The one example I mentioned might not be a good one, but I'm sure the devs can think of balanced and interesting combos that make the underpowered elements more useful(heat, magnetic, etc)

 

for the movement sets my initial thoughts is that it will be cosmetic, just like idle animation. Maybe some would provide slightly higher agility than others, but again that's for the devs to balance/decide.

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12 minutes ago, _Urakaze_ said:

as for the elemental combos, I'm suggesting adding interactions between 2 elements, not trying to create more compound elements. The one example I mentioned might not be a good one, but I'm sure the devs can think of balanced and interesting combos that make the underpowered elements more useful(heat, magnetic, etc)

But that's the side effect you get from this where you're in a game where you can have Heat and Magnetic on the same weapon. Once again, going back to your example, Heat + Magnetic on a weapon is basically 2 elemental effects + 1 free effect. The only difference this has with a new 3 part compound element is that damage done is calculated on two sides and it retains the component proc effects rather than a new compound element.

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From what I've seen Anthem is only loosely comparable to Warframe aesthetically (more so if you only look at surface level comparisons) but gameplay wise Warframe is still more comparable to Diablo than Anthem.

Really if there is anything Warframe can pickup from this it's more minibosses, which is a feature players have been asking for quite awhile now.

 

But as far as movement animations are concerned (afaik) we've been using the exact same walk/run cycle since the game was released into closed beta; it's about time we've gotten walking 2.0.

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I played the demo too and the first thing that came to my mind was: this feels like Mass Effect multiplayer.

If you know ME, you get a pretty good idea of what Anthem plays like. Movement, weapons, enemy shields and armour, skill sets - as longtime ME fan, I felt right at home. Just add some short time rocket flight to the known double jumps and there you go.

I prefer the much faster game pace of Warframe, however.

Performance on my old mill (i7 2600k, gtx 1080) was about 30-45fps at lower setting under Win7. Too slow for my taste, maybe more with Win10 and DX12. On Xbox One X it's even worse.

I think Warframe already achieves more with less demand in comparison. 

If Warframe should look up to another game, that should be Monster Hunter with its very varied and clever menagerie. Warframe really could use boss fights like that.

 

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