I Tried Everything (Ashgate)

[IIDMOII]

I agree. I feel the same way about a lot of frames.

Are they fun? Sure. Can they perform if built right? Sure.

There's just a handful of frames that are significantly superior and pretty much guarantee that older frames like ash just get benched or vendored. 

No frame should have to rely on all 4 abilities to be competitive. We aren't given mod capacity or energy regeneration high enough to make it work. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by IIDMOII

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

4 minutes ago, IIDMOII said:

I agree. I feel the same way about a lot of frames.

Are they fun? Sure. Can they perform if built right? Sure.

There's just a handful of frames that are significantly superior and pretty much guarantee that older frames like ash just get benched or vendored. 

Chough chough vaban

[Torrempesta]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Uhm if you run a Nekros tank build you will not sit at anywhere near 70%. You have around 2 slots open for him after you've spent everything you need on tank mods.

Equilibrium, Health Conversion, Quick Thinking, Despoil, Shield of Shadows and Flow/Primed. After that you have 2 slots left, preferably you slot vitality to better sustain despoil and the last is either spent on more HP or Strength to buff SoS. That last spot gets you nowhere near a massive amount of armor strip, even if you spend it on Blind Rage. Plus it is a freakin flee mechanic tied into it, annoying to have to deal with at best.

And as for Baruuk needing awareness? Mmm yeah because his 3 and 4 dont trivialize that at all.

You are right, at best he goes to 47% armor reduction. Still: AoE.

 

With Baruuk you need to know exactly where the enemies are in order to receive hits, and he has to be careful to not get hit in his blind spot. He also has to be quick because, again, being a frame based on enemy damage and aggro, he  hasto be faster than his team mates, who will kill everything on sight, of course.
His 2 and 3 are actually less suitable for building up "time" (I don't recall its name... sorry) for his ultimate, which lasts less and less the more you use your E.

Baruuk has good CC on his 2, but it has not a good range if you build him for damages and his 3 is a pretty weak disarm... Nothing special.

So... yes, you actually need to know where to place yourself and to scout your surroundings.

[Rakosta_Kai]

10 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Ash still can't be played efficiently.

Why? Because (and I will never grow tired repeating it) we still have tons of WFs who can clear the room with half the effort, the time and the mechanics that Ash requires.

Ash is a single target damage dealer and has always been slower in clearing groups than aoe frames.

...Doesn't keep him from being top tier.

He needs no buff 

[Xyngrr]

I play Ash, and quite alot recently.

In a few posts you've played the 'someone else does something better' game to absurd hyperbole, and in others the 'I have to rely on guns to shoot things' statement.
If the other frames aren't using guns to kill, then you're looking for Mesa, Saryn, or one of the other non-play cheeser elements and should likely use them more. I've seen one Mesa run a very effective gunless PeaceMaker for instance, but taking the time to see how their playstyle was that effective it was obviously a one button macro cheesing a set series of actions, it was much like watching the facewall slidespammers and probably as much fun to play.
But it IS hard to beat press one button to win, which sounds like where you want to go ( because it's efficient ) while throwing Ash under the bus in getting there.

Reading to here, I'm gonna have to go with the problem being you want to play Ash as some other onebutton nukeframe.

He is THE Space Ninja in a space ninja game.
 

[Cubewano]

I feel so conflicted here, on one hand I agree Ash is just severely lacking in really any function in the game, but on the other hand I don't think the frames he's being compared to should even exist so I don't want to drag him to their level as well just to augment that problem. 

DE just really needs to cement out a solid balance table for the game and just what is and isn't meant to be the killing capacity of frames, and work from there up. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Cubewano

[Toran]

Aslong melee is a thing, Ash is a thing. The OP is but clueless.

Ash is my choice No.1 for most Kuva Floods and Sorties.

I'm using a long duration, high efficiency  Seeking Shuriken build with Naramon, Arcane Grace & Guardian. Weapons are all riven modded: Rubico, silenced Lato Vandal and a double-maiming Cyath polearm (200%+ crit on spin attack).

Rarely I see anybody around competing in damage. Whatever has the impertinence not being one-hitted will be softened up by Seeking Shuriken.

Bladestorm's used with large groups for bonus damage and combo counter.

Thanks to Naramon, the combo counter hardly ever drops and Kuva clouds can be busted conveniently with a badly aimed void dash (increased AoE with Surging Dash). And it's great fun one-shotting the Stalker with your Operator (Void Stalker).

With void dashes having become 2nd nature movement, I don't use teleport at all.

[Methanoid]

@OP, could be worse, you could be trying to fast clear those rooms with....atlas or something equally as bad, ash aint that bad off tbh.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Really just sounds like you're trying to reconcile with yourself somehow.  A warframe doesn't need to be the best at something in order to be a good frame.  Ash is a flexible frame that grants total player freedom in play style.  He doesn't need to be any better than he is currently.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

You are right, at best he goes to 47% armor reduction. Still: AoE.

 

With Baruuk you need to know exactly where the enemies are in order to receive hits, and he has to be careful to not get hit in his blind spot. He also has to be quick because, again, being a frame based on enemy damage and aggro, he  hasto be faster than his team mates, who will kill everything on sight, of course.
His 2 and 3 are actually less suitable for building up "time" (I don't recall its name... sorry) for his ultimate, which lasts less and less the more you use your E.

Baruuk has good CC on his 2, but it has not a good range if you build him for damages and his 3 is a pretty weak disarm... Nothing special.

So... yes, you actually need to know where to place yourself and to scout your surroundings.

You can maintain Baruuk very easily if you have a high strength build with decent range. I run enough strength to get max damage reduction while using his 4, that also gives me 15 daggers or so with his 3. I havent even maxed the range on him but his 2 has good enough distance to be reliable as an ult battery. You can completely nelgect duration on him because the stat does nothing beneficial too him. The lower duration, the more you can use your 2 to feed your ult. 

Once I get his 4 rolling I tend to turn off his 1 and simply use 2+3 for sustaining the ult.

[(PSN)Radehx]

Ash is just one of those frames that only really starts shining (brightly) at very high endgame levels. Yes, at lower levels, there are more efficient killers...but once you hit armored high-level enemies, he'll kill stuff faster than most other frames thanks to his armor stripping with Seeking Shuriken. 

There are few frames that rival him at MOT runs of more than an hour for example.

[Naqel]

On 2019-01-30 at 3:03 PM, Torrempesta said:

But it's all useless.
Ash still can't be played efficiently.

Why? Because (and I will never grow tired repeating it) we still have tons of WFs who can clear the room with half the effort, the time and the mechanics that Ash requires.

This is a fundamental design issue with Warframe, that cannot be resolved without retaining Ash's identity as a silent assassin.

Warframe has long ago drifted away from any semblance of player skill, proper pacing, or even gameplay balance.
What you have is a horde shooter with space magic, and in that convention a guy who's main selling point is: that guy is dead without a trace at the push of a button. Doesn't really have much place in it mechanically.

[Genesix6]

On 2019-01-31 at 1:14 AM, Gnlstorm said:

They is no bad warframe/weapon/mod only bad player

Vauban balls would like to have questions with you

Also aklato and zoom mods would like to have few questions with you as well

Edited February 5, 2019 by Genesix6

[Autongnosis]

Ash still retains his niche as the best endurance damage dealer due to the abuseability of dealing weapon melee damage, finisher damage and bleed DoTs. For reference a team comp built on ash can deal, at 1x combo, 16 BILLION damage per mark. For a whopping 288 billion damage per target at 4x combo while using his super secret venka prime interaction. I think enemy health doesn't even get there at level cap. And it's finisher dmg, so good luck trying to reduce that 😄

And he's quite fun tbh. 

I agree that as a generic bite sized DPS frame he's not that great, but then again there are many frames good for that and not many good for DPS on longer stuff, so Ash definitely has his niche. 

And he's not as slow at killing as people made him out to be. At sortie 3 lv and below you only need 1 mark if you built for BS or if you have some combo counter, and tap 4, swipe once, tap 4 isn't that much slower than many other AoE DPS frames. With the added benefit of ignoring every condition that reduces dmg, like enhanced armour, elemental/phisical enhancement etc. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Autongnosis

[Marvelous_A]

On 2019-01-31 at 5:48 AM, Padre_Akais said:

Ash is a single target damage dealer and has always been slower in clearing groups than aoe frames.

...Doesn't keep him from being top tier.

He needs no buff 

So he's like, the champion of "killing stuff slowly" frames? Sure...

He can deal 9999999 damage to a single target but what we need is someone who can deal 999 damage to multiple targets and still it's enough to kill. For the really tough bosses none of his abilities work on them (ironically). Just what's the point of his existence?

Truth is unless you like inefficient killer simulator, we have got no use of him.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[(XBOX)Shodian]

46 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

For the really tough bosses none of his abilities work on them (ironically).

With his augment his shirikens can strip the armor from bosses. He causes a lot if slash damage on mobs. Just because Ash is not the best at something doesn't mean he's useless.

Edited February 5, 2019 by (XB1)Shodian

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

So he's like, the champion of "killing one thing" frames? Sure...

He can deal 9999999 damage to a single target but what I want is someone who can deal 999 damage to multiple targets and still it's enough to kill. Yet, I haven't bothered to look at any of the other frames on the roster because that would ruin my argument. For the really tough bosses his best abilities work on them (ironically, I chose not to bring that part up because it would kill my argument). Just what's the point of his existence? I can't actually faceroll him and this makes me so MAD.

Truth is unless you like inefficient killer simulator, we have got no use of him.

FTFY

And you are correct in that everyone doesn't like or play faceroll frames.

You obviously do... So allow me to direct you toward the 18 or so frames that do just that.

You need to cosplay a ninja facerolling whole rooms? Then put on a ski mask and play the game like that instead.

[HugintheCrow]

tl;dr;

Never try to have a serious discussion on forums.