Nightwave Reputation Math to get to 30

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

16 hours ago, Hamstertron said:

It's kill 500 enemies for 3k rep and kill 100 eximus units for 5000 rep.

Some of these objective can be done almost passively, like use a glyph prism and kill 500 enemies. I did a couple missions and an Eximus Stronghold Sortie mission and I was on 83 Eximus kills without even thinking about it. I thought I would have to make a special effort for that one, too but I ended up doing it faster than the "run 3 invasions" objective. I've still not finished the "Do 8 Cetus Bounties". The time investment required is really uneven compared to the rep rewarded, across the objectives. But the good news is we have enough leeway to be able to skip 20% of the missions and still get the rewards.

My apologies for mixing up the two numbers. But what does 20% entitle. That's the big issue that people have with it. Will that 20% be things like Sorties, Abitrations and Things like the Ediolons/Orb Mother or will it be small things like use a glyph in a mission? The pay out per objective is incredibly uneven so far. Some of the standing grind also requires you to play X amount of missions such as 9 arbitrations or 9 missions on the plains. While some people enjoy doing these others do not so if you chose to skip those missions how much of that 20% will they take up? The issue is what can you afford to no do/miss? If you can do it then it feels like a requirement that you should incase you are a solo player who cant play with a warm body on sorties. I 100% agree that the time investment required is uneven and that should be looked into. If the goal with the new system is to make things more of a passive grind and benefit those who couldn't watch to alerts then I don't believe it accomplishes that.

16 hours ago, hazerddex said:

your also hinging on all the the elite missions being exactly the same?

As of right now we don't have enough data to know if they will all be the same, true but I am hinging on them being of the same difficulty. If it said "kill 1 orb mother in a public group" I'm sure more people would be complaining because not only that is locked behind old mate but a fair amount of people hate pub. If these are the type of missions that fall under the elite category how many players will be able to get them? Tri-dolon and Sorties with +one friendly may not be difficult for some but for others that is a content block.

[Squizzolo]

29 minutes ago, Silescere said:

Normal syndicates don't vanish after 10 weeks and you can take yer time and act according to your own schedule though.

I reached tier 3 in 2 days without the hydrolist and the sortie, simply playing the game, so even if I miss a couple of the weekly challenges I can reach tier 30 in 10 weeks with no problem. Where's the #*!%in problem? 

[Tiltskillet]

40 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

(x3 your MR)...?

Scaling some of the tasks with MR sounds like an intriguing idea to me.  Although I'd expect some feedback from people arguing that they're being punished for progression.

[LSG501]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I won’t deny that there are some issues with the Nightwave system. But the complaint that the game is giving you a reason to go back and play through the content in it again is a really stupid complaint.

In your opinion.

I've played this game long enough to have close to everything in the game, I have already stockpiled invasion resources, I have all the weapon parts from the invasions and the alerts, I have all the helmets and auras, I've got everything from simaris except the captura scene (which I can actually afford to buy), I have everything except some capturas from all 6 syndicates (I'm sure there will be a syndicate challenge at some point), I have all the items I want from PoE bounties (think I'm missing the 1% drop chance mods which aren't even in the fastest mission which we'll pick)....

Why would I want to go back and play something I have zero need to do such as invasions, simaris or PoE.  Yet if I want the standing I'm forced to do them even though I get no benefit from doing them, I didn't even get any cetus standing on the PoE because that syndicate (like the others) are full already.

In essence I've done that grind, I'm now being forced to do it again, in all likelihood multiple times by the end of the cycle.  I'd rather be going off to do something I WANT to be doing but because of the items which are ONLY available in the rewards (and as I've said warframe is a 'collect it all game') I'm now forced to do something I don't have a reason to do or in some cases enjoy doing (I don't enjoy doing eidolons, let alone tridolons for example).

Because of the timegating (funny how this is acceptable here but wasn't with login rewards...) of rewards and the design so the things high mr actually want are at the end I'm getting rewards I don't even need let alone want, I don't need forma (relics have me pretty sorted there), I don't need slots (relics and a bit of trading sorts that out), I don't need catalysts or reactors (you get to a point where you don't need any), I have absolutely zero interest in sigils/emotes/glyphs (they should have been a cred reward imo) and it's even worse getting creds when the only thing I'm interested in there is the ornament and maybe the camo skins... I'll have all three at 60,000 points if I want them, so what's the other 200 creds for?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, LSG501 said:

In your opinion.

 

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

5k. No other task require you to be in a group. Also, 10k out of 43k is 23%, not 33%. 

The Hydrolyst is virtually the same lock, DE decided not to scale then in any sane way.

10k of the Weekly standing is 27% (Sorry I missed on of the other weeklies) Missing that repeatedly puts you right on the cusp of failing if you don't do every single daily.

Worse if RNG treats you poorly for one of the weekly ones (Like the Ayatan socketing)

4 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

Again, hard locks? Really? 

Yes, really.

[SilentMobius]

2 hours ago, Kialandi said:

Is it unreasonable for a CO-OP game to ask you to play with other players?

They are not asking the are locking rewards behind warm body counts, and yes that is unreasonable and counter-productive.

2 hours ago, Kialandi said:

Is it unreasonable for a CO-OP game to ask you to play with other players?

Even though this game is solo friendly not everything can be played solo e.g. Trials.

It's similar to your Founder's Access. Even though this game is F2P friendly not everything can be acquired through gameplay.

And trials were rightly dropped because they were wildly unpopular for the maintenance cost. Wildly unpopular because of the hard teaming requirement and the nonsense elitism that breeds.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

What we need is 3x Dailies every day, 6x Weeklies and 1x Elite Weekly. That gives us 44k points (21k from Dailies, 18k from Weeklies, and 5k from Elite Weeklies).

Having 3x Elite Weeklies makes it way too top heavy when that accounts for 15k while the easier Dailies only account for 7k right now.

 

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

 

So you can't show where my points are baseless... right good to know 🙂

[GrimAtrament]

8 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

It's also me who chose to be a founder based on the understanding that playing solo was a viable option, something DE has been relatively good it supporting.

and it is DE who are changing that arrangement.

and it is you, who are failing to grasp this simple thing.

 

I mean next weeks "elite challenge" might as well be "Punch hazerddex in the face as hard as you can, while taking out profit taker" would it then be you choosing not to participate?

Or, and just hear me out here..

Would that be unreasonable given the history of the game so far, hmmm?

being a founder doesn't make you any more privlaged then the rest of people who started warframe at the beginning and spent money on it. i find it amusing you complain about elitism then try to pull the elitsm card in your own arugment of "oh but im a founder. respec muh athoraty"  hypocrisy much?

its DE focusing on 90% of the player base rather then the 10% few who do everything solo and  will apperently burst into flames if they contact another player in the game.

its you whos being selfish and refusing to do 1 simple mission with 1 other player as if it will some how kill you.

nah i would still particpate. also thats a nice straw man

2 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

My apologies for mixing up the two numbers. But what does 20% entitle. That's the big issue that people have with it. Will that 20% be things like Sorties, Abitrations and Things like the Ediolons/Orb Mother or will it be small things like use a glyph in a mission? The pay out per objective is incredibly uneven so far. Some of the standing grind also requires you to play X amount of missions such as 9 arbitrations or 9 missions on the plains. While some people enjoy doing these others do not so if you chose to skip those missions how much of that 20% will they take up? The issue is what can you afford to no do/miss? If you can do it then it feels like a requirement that you should incase you are a solo player who cant play with a warm body on sorties. I 100% agree that the time investment required is uneven and that should be looked into. If the goal with the new system is to make things more of a passive grind and benefit those who couldn't watch to alerts then I don't believe it accomplishes that.

As of right now we don't have enough data to know if they will all be the same, true but I am hinging on them being of the same difficulty. If it said "kill 1 orb mother in a public group" I'm sure more people would be complaining because not only that is locked behind old mate but a fair amount of people hate pub. If these are the type of missions that fall under the elite category how many players will be able to get them? Tri-dolon and Sorties with +one friendly may not be difficult for some but for others that is a content block.

refusing to play with other players isn't DE content blocking. its other players being foolish and illogical.

They can play with other players and nothing is stopping them other then them looking down on 90% of the player base as "bad."

if  the current excuses are anything to go by.

also yes none of people have data for it, but they still choose to complain without waiting for at lest a week or two and trying the new system

Edited March 1, 2019 by hazerddex

[Kialandi]

16 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

They are not asking the are locking rewards behind warm body counts, and yes that is unreasonable and counter-productive.

And trials were rightly dropped because they were wildly unpopular for the maintenance cost. Wildly unpopular because of the hard teaming requirement and the nonsense elitism that breeds.

Just because you are able to solo everything in this game doesn't mean that others can do it as well. Hence the encouragement to play with others and potentionally help them. This game is CO-OP first and foremost. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Trials were dropped mostly because they were super buggy.

Oh yeah, because solo players are definitely not elitists...

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

47 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

being a founder doesn't make you any more privlaged then the rest of people who started warframe at the beginning and spent money on it. i find it amusing you complain about elitism then try to pull the elitsm card in your own arugment of "oh but im a founder. respec muh athoraty"  hypocrisy much?

its DE focusing on 90% of the player base rather then the 10% few who do everything solo and  will apperently burst into flames if they contact another player in the game.

its you whos being selfish and refusing to do 1 simple mission with 1 other player as if it will some how kill you.

nah i would still particpate. also thats a nice straw man

refusing to play with other players isn't DE content blocking. its other players being foolish and illogical.

They can play with other players and nothing is stopping them other then them looking down on 90% of the player base as "bad."

if  the current excuses are anything to go by.

also yes none of people have data for it, but they still choose to complain without waiting for at lest a week or two and trying the new system

Except I was referring to those who do not have the ability to play with friends or who's friends do not have sorties available. There are also many a player who do not have the skills or time to do a Tridolon run. People are complaining because the system rewards those who have the ample time and skill to dedicate to what ever the challenge is. If you fall short in one of those two categories then the system plays against you. If that's the bar set for elite quests then it does factor in as it would take 11 weeks to be able to get rank 30 without doing a single elite.

Your friends all too low to play sorties? Just got your first Amp and don't think you can contribute to Tridolon? Work a job where your hours mean no one is online when you are? Are you a parent who maybe gets 2 hours or so to play? You just not a very good player who is still trying to enjoy the game? Have a full time job, and go to school full time? Do you have any prior commitments in your off time to keep you from playing the game? Have any combination of the above issues?- Sucks to be you because your not goanna be able to get Rank 30. 

DE wanted to get rid of time limited missions alerts by replacing it with a time limited grind for credits that expire at the end of the event. To even get the first set of wolf creds you have to be rank 3 meaning you have to have done enough to earn 30k standing. If you do everything but the elite quests (28k standing) that means you wont be able to buy anything until at lest 2 weeks in if you do literally everything else (not counting the prisoners/wolf as they are RNG based.)

People are upset and complaining about it because others refuse to acknowledge that so far its not a good system. The idea was to help people get items that were otherwise a pain due to time gates but for people who cant do the elites the time gate went from RNG where it could show up at any time to 2 weeks min then reset at the end of the event. So if you didn't get enough cred to get everything you wanted too bad so sad do it all over again.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 2 heures, SilentMobius a dit :

The Hydrolyst is virtually the same lock, DE decided not to scale then in any sane way.

Nope, cut the BS. The Hydrolist is easily soloable. Even more so since it doesn't even require a cap. 

[DerGreif2]

Some things dont belong in the hand of casual or new players. The Armor and the Umbral forma are rewards with a meaning and not something that is given to everyone just for existing. So glad that they finally implemented something like this.

[(PSN)Double991]

There's 3 types of complainers I'm seeing here. The loners that don't want to make friends out of stubborn negativity. The self proclaimed "veterans" that think these challenges are too tedious (if you're actually a veteran, they're not), and new players that may lack the capability to do the elite weeklies.

Of these 3 only the newbies get my sympathy because they need the wolf creds more than anyone.

It's not like the challenges are going to have the same requirements as week 1 so even if you miss out some of this week, you'll probably be able to do next week's.

The only challenge from week 1 that I thought was remotely tedious was filling 5 sculptures but I got them all done and I'm rank 4 so far.

[GrimAtrament]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

There's 3 types of complainers I'm seeing here. The loners that don't want to make friends out of stubborn negativity. The self proclaimed "veterans" that think these challenges are too tedious (if you're actually a veteran, they're not), and new players that may lack the capability to do the elite weeklies.

Of these 3 only the newbies get my sympathy because they need the wolf creds more than anyone.

It's not like the challenges are going to have the same requirements as week 1 so even if you miss out some of this week, you'll probably be able to do next week's.

The only challenge from week 1 that I thought was remotely tedious was filling 5 sculptures but I got them all done and I'm rank 4 so far.

i did some more number cunching with the dailys and found it was actually possible to reach 4 rank ups per week since you get a daily every day  and there are 7 days so you can pobably get even more within a full week.

Edited March 1, 2019 by hazerddex

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

21 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Now it wouldn't feel as much of a chore if the rewards were correctly balanced around 'quick bite size content' and/or the amount of time needed to do them but when I just spent roughly 2 hours getting 3k standing from 8 PoE bounties due to them bugging out and screwing up the mission in the third phase it is anything but fun.  To put it into context in the considerably less time I could do 3 other missions and get 9k from them (onslaught, eximus and 500 kills), not to mention I could do them all in one mission.  Then there are some missions which are timegated such as simaris scans meaning you can't 'get them out of the way' in one day so you can have fun doing the things you actually enjoy doing for the rest of the week...

You could have just done the first one solo multiple times. Since it's a low level and fewer stages, less chance for a problem. 

And I think that the simaris challenge is one of the weekly ones, so time gating isn't as much of a problem as all that. Might be wrong. 

The kills and eximus kills were passive for me. Had to do a couple of the capture runs doing slide melee for the "kill while sliding" , which was ok because I did the "scan items/enemies" at the same time, and using only melee allowed me to not bother swapping guns for scanner. The "survive sanctuary waves" was trivial and most of the group I was in stayed to wave 8 anyway. 

Can't remember what the rest of them were. 

[Skaleek]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

There's 3 types of complainers I'm seeing here. The loners that don't want to make friends out of stubborn negativity. The self proclaimed "veterans" that think these challenges are too tedious (if you're actually a veteran, they're not), and new players that may lack the capability to do the elite weeklies.

Of these 3 only the newbies get my sympathy because they need the wolf creds more than anyone.

It's not like the challenges are going to have the same requirements as week 1 so even if you miss out some of this week, you'll probably be able to do next week's.

The only challenge from week 1 that I thought was remotely tedious was filling 5 sculptures but I got them all done and I'm rank 4 so far.

You forgot the 4th complainer, the one complaining about the other 3.

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You could have just done the first one solo multiple times. Since it's a low level and fewer stages, less chance for a problem.  

And I think that the simaris challenge is one of the weekly ones, so time gating isn't as much of a problem as all that. Might be wrong. 

The kills and eximus kills were passive for me. Had to do a couple of the capture runs doing slide melee for the "kill while sliding" , which was ok because I did the "scan items/enemies" at the same time, and using only melee allowed me to not bother swapping guns for scanner. The "survive sanctuary waves" was trivial and most of the group I was in stayed to wave 8 anyway. 

Can't remember what the rest of them were. 

I did try solo for PoE.... it still had sessions where it bugged out.

simaris wasn't so much the time allowed to get it done it was that it couldn't be done in one day.  Some people might only have one day to do these in. 

The bit about the others supports my point, they took considerably less time to do yet had the same or more standing and you could do multiples etc.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

Some things dont belong in the hand of casual or new players. The Armor and the Umbral forma are rewards with a meaning and not something that is given to everyone just for existing. So glad that they finally implemented something like this.

While I agree, you do realize that wolf credits are also being gated behind how far new/casual players advance in the Nightwave tiers, right?

This is the fail of the system as it rewards players for completing weekly challenges but also restricts access to things like Nitain Extract, free Reactors/Catalysts, 300 Oxium bundles, etc. Things that used to be available with almost no effort.

[Silescere]

8 hours ago, Squizzolo said:

I reached tier 3 in 2 days without the hydrolist and the sortie, simply playing the game, so even if I miss a couple of the weekly challenges I can reach tier 30 in 10 weeks with no problem. Where's the #*!%in problem? 

I just stated a difference. Don't know what else you read into my post.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

28 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I did try solo for PoE.... it still had sessions where it bugged out.

simaris wasn't so much the time allowed to get it done it was that it couldn't be done in one day.  Some people might only have one day to do these in. 

The bit about the others supports my point, they took considerably less time to do yet had the same or more standing and you could do multiples etc.

The first suggests that the problem is with your setup?

The second is unfortunate, but I feel that I have to point out that many things are timegated, and there are other systems in place to reward players who log in daily. It's possible to complete the simaris one in a few hours if you get lucky, and pick the right few hours, I suppose as the daily reset should allow you to do 2 simaris daily synthesis tasks in that period. Other than that I feel like it's a case of "well this person has managed to play over the course of several days, and you only did one, why would you expect to get the same rewards?" 

The third, I suppose that I could have done the simaris task while doing my enemy scans for even more efficiency. It just never occurred to me. 

[LSG501]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The first suggests that the problem is with your setup?

 

The third, I suppose that I could have done the simaris task while doing my enemy scans for even more efficiency. It just never occurred to me. 

Nothing wrong with my setup, it's a code issue which DE hasn't fixed because plenty of others have seen the same bug.

There were 2 simaris tasks, one was scan iirc 25 objects (not hard just took you 'away from the mission' for a minute or two), the other was 5 targets, if you're lucky you can get 4 in one go but it can be as low as 2 for that which could stretch it to 3 days. 

As I've said elsewhere real world might restrict time available to play the game, I'm sure some of the people this redesign is trying to cater for are only able to get on for one or two days during the week (ie weekends) which means if you're unlucky and get only 2 targets per simaris mission you wouldn't be able to complete 5 scans in your 'available time'.  It's not a hard mission but the timegating could potentially be just as restrictive as the 'random times' of the old system. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by LSG501

[Orblit]

Guess it's hard to find a way to naturally do all the tasks...except for say eidolon hunting for obvious, get that outta here, reasons...

 

For people who get on, do 1 mission type only, then get off.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Nothing wrong with my setup, it's a code issue which DE hasn't fixed because plenty of others have seen the same bug.

There were 2 simaris tasks, one was scan iirc 25 objects (not hard just took you 'away from the mission' for a minute or two), the other was 5 targets, if you're lucky you can get 4 in one go but it can be as low as 2 for that which could stretch it to 3 days. 

As I've said elsewhere real world might restrict time available to play the game, I'm sure some of the people this redesign is trying to cater for are only able to get on for one or two days during the week (ie weekends) which means if you're unlucky and get only 2 targets per simaris mission you wouldn't be able to complete 5 scans in your 'available time'.  It's not a hard mission but the timegating could potentially be just as restrictive as the 'random times' of the old system. 

OK haven't seen that bug on PS4 yet, hopefully it will get ironed out before it gets here. Only thing I've been seeing a lot of, is the invisible floor panels. 

 

And yeah I recognise that luck is a factor for Simaris missions. But like I said, they've consistently made things that reward players for logging in often. This is really just following that trend. Even down to having "daily" tasks and "weekly" tasks. (In quotation marks because I haven't seen my daily tasks reset yet.) 

Complaining that that group is locked out because of time constraints, is like complaining that newbs are locked out because they just can't handle the content, possibly even if they get carried. 

I doubt that I will be able to get that ayatan one done. RNG, lack of observation, whatever it is, I seldom find them, and all the ones I had were already filled. Not going to complain though.