Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

I'm reasonably sure most of the playerbase could complete every nightwave task at least in regards to weeklies in three hours at most.  It's just easier to complain on the forums then actually go out there and do it.  Take this week for example, doing 9 invasion missions can be done in under half an hour just killing phorid over and over.  8 waves of ESO is 25 minutes or so.  10 nightmare missions is probably the longest challenge if you want it done ASAP just because then you'll not be doing just captures, sabotages, etc. etc. that all take a couple minutes per mission.  The nicest thing about nightmare mode missions is they can crossover with the 3 mobile defense and 3 spy missions you do this week to save you time.  

Widespread complaints are not what DE is going to listen to.  If you give good, constructive criticism that is valid and well thought out you probably have a much better chance of being heard.  I doubt they even read the threads in general about nightwave that complain about it, maybe they did at first but when you have a thread opening up seemingly every day complaining about NW I doubt they care to read it.  In fact it's better that they don't read it because it's usually a waste of time that could be spent working on warframe (seriously, I want railjack as do many others and I don't want it to be pushed further back.)  

[KelvinM6]

1 minute ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

I'm reasonably sure most of the playerbase could complete every nightwave task at least in regards to weeklies in three hours at most.  It's just easier to complain on the forums then actually go out there and do it.  Take this week for example, doing 9 invasion missions can be done in under half an hour just killing phorid over and over.  8 waves of ESO is 25 minutes or so.  10 nightmare missions is probably the longest challenge if you want it done ASAP just because then you'll not be doing just captures, sabotages, etc. etc. that all take a couple minutes per mission.  The nicest thing about nightmare mode missions is they can crossover with the 3 mobile defense and 3 spy missions you do this week to save you time.  

Widespread complaints are not what DE is going to listen to.  If you give good, constructive criticism that is valid and well thought out you probably have a much better chance of being heard.  I doubt they even read the threads in general about nightwave that complain about it, maybe they did at first but when you have a thread opening up seemingly every day complaining about NW I doubt they care to read it.  In fact it's better that they don't read it because it's usually a waste of time that could be spent working on warframe (seriously, I want railjack as do many others and I don't want it to be pushed further back.)  

When I have time to log on I'm not going to do boring nightwave, I want to experience at least a vague sense of enjoyment. I'm sorry but idk how much clearer the problematic nature of this system can be, it REALLY frustrates me how people shrug it off.

[Kizkim]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (XB1)COA Altair:

I'm reasonably sure most of the playerbase could complete every nightwave task at least in regards to weeklies in three hours at most.  It's just easier to complain on the forums then actually go out there and do it.  Take this week for example, doing 9 invasion missions can be done in under half an hour just killing phorid over and over.  8 waves of ESO is 25 minutes or so.  10 nightmare missions is probably the longest challenge if you want it done ASAP just because then you'll not be doing just captures, sabotages, etc. etc. that all take a couple minutes per mission.  The nicest thing about nightmare mode missions is they can crossover with the 3 mobile defense and 3 spy missions you do this week to save you time.  

Widespread complaints are not what DE is going to listen to.  If you give good, constructive criticism that is valid and well thought out you probably have a much better chance of being heard.  I doubt they even read the threads in general about nightwave that complain about it, maybe they did at first but when you have a thread opening up seemingly every day complaining about NW I doubt they care to read it.  In fact it's better that they don't read it because it's usually a waste of time that could be spent working on warframe (seriously, I want railjack as do many others and I don't want it to be pushed further back.)  

I mean i have no idea what DE reads. But I sure can try to change something. Sorry to everybody that is annoyed. But you dont even have to click on this thread if you dont like them :)

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

1 minute ago, KelvinM6 said:

When I have time to log on I'm not going to do boring nightwave, I want to experience at least a vague sense of enjoyment. I'm sorry but idk how much clearer the problematic nature of this system can be, it REALLY frustrates me how people shrug it off.

So you don't consider mobile defense, spy, killing profit taker, etc. etc. to be playing warframe?  Because that's all nightwave is asking, play the game and get rewarded for it.  Alerts were far more narrow in scope, they DEMANDED that you be online to even play the mission to get nitain, corrosive projection, etc. etc. and they picked the mission type for you.  Nightwave you can login any time of the week whether it's 3am or 5pm no matter what timezone you're in and get rewarded.  This works for virtually everyone, whereas the former alert system worked for far less people who had progress locked down hard behind nitain they couldn't get simply because oh sorry you missed all the nitain alerts for the day because you logged in for 2 hours, no alerts showed up in those 2 hours, and you logged off because you had other commitments.  The number of people playing this game that can login whenever a nitain alert dropped was far lower then the people who could not.  

[KelvinM6]

 

12 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

So you don't consider mobile defense, spy, killing profit taker, etc. etc. to be playing warframe?  Because that's all nightwave is asking, play the game and get rewarded for it.  Alerts were far more narrow in scope, they DEMANDED that you be online to even play the mission to get nitain, corrosive projection, etc. etc. and they picked the mission type for you.  Nightwave you can login any time of the week whether it's 3am or 5pm no matter what timezone you're in and get rewarded.  This works for virtually everyone, whereas the former alert system worked for far less people who had progress locked down hard behind nitain they couldn't get simply because oh sorry you missed all the nitain alerts for the day because you logged in for 2 hours, no alerts showed up in those 2 hours, and you logged off because you had other commitments.  The number of people playing this game that can login whenever a nitain alert dropped was far lower then the people who could not.  

Nightwave occasionally lines up with how I want to play, but not enough for me to complete it. I don't like the old way of acquiring Nitain either, but this is bigger than just how convenient and/or efficient it is to get Nitain. I see this response a lot, and it seems like a reductive attempt to justify nightwave compared to old Nitain/Auras, Nightwave isn't just Nitain/Auras, and even if the system was overal better that doesn't mean a thing compared to a bad system. Overal, old alerts made getting some stuff frustratingly slow and inconsistent, Nightwave makes you the game's b%tch when you have time* to play, choose wisely.

Looking at it this week, I'll probably get the mobile-def passively, and I happened to do the ESO one cause I wanted to test something vs. large crowds... That's it. If you happen to do all the stuff anyway that's great, the problems occur (And should hopefully become painfully apparent) to those for whom that's not the case.

Edited July 23, 2019 by KelvinM6

[Kizkim]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (XB1)COA Altair:

So you don't consider mobile defense, spy, killing profit taker, etc. etc. to be playing warframe?  Because that's all nightwave is asking, play the game and get rewarded for it.  Alerts were far more narrow in scope, they DEMANDED that you be online to even play the mission to get nitain, corrosive projection, etc. etc. and they picked the mission type for you.  Nightwave you can login any time of the week whether it's 3am or 5pm no matter what timezone you're in and get rewarded.  This works for virtually everyone, whereas the former alert system worked for far less people who had progress locked down hard behind nitain they couldn't get simply because oh sorry you missed all the nitain alerts for the day because you logged in for 2 hours, no alerts showed up in those 2 hours, and you logged off because you had other commitments.  The number of people playing this game that can login whenever a nitain alert dropped was far lower then the people who could not.  

Nitain was always a whole diffrent problem. Putting it into alerts was DE trying to be diffrent but all they did is a bad thing for most players. And one could change alerts to work so you get 5 nitain from one too. Or put nitain somewhere else ? maybe a bossfight ? If you buy nitain with your creeds good luck getting 1 potato in 2 weeks again. You feel like you have to PAY to get something with alerts you get something for free. If you missed a alert you most likely didnt even know you did. And even if. One comes up again some time. YES its still not a perfect system we know that and we complaind back then too. But its in my opinion more Rewarding then Nightwave.

[KelvinM6]

Not to mention the catch-up requires you to clear all current challenges? Am I understanding this correctly? what a dumpster fire

[ADM-Ntek]

3 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Hi. Here's my opinion :)

Your thread (the 10.000th one about this topic) will definitely change Nightwave

you are aware that the fact that a lot of people complaining about alerts is why nightwave exists. so yea if enough people complain long enough even nightwave gets replaced at some point. also why should you opinion be worth more then someone else's?

[LSG501]

3 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Honestly, all NW per week take maybe 2 hours PER WEEK.

Which would be fine if we didn't have to do things we don't actually need to do....  it's not always about how long it takes but more about how much time we need to waste doing things we don't need to do.

 

In the case of most high mr players the following is likely the case and this is just for this week....

5 different bounties on earth - finished them ages ago and nothing left for me on the bounty reward tables and my standing is maxed so complete waste of my time.

9 Invasion missions - I've got stockpiles of the resources and all the weapons etc

8 waves of onslaught, not even elite - No frames to level, I have khora and everything else it drops.  If I'm going to do onslaught I might as well do elite as I still need some vandal parts and the focus/xp is faster/higher.

10 Nightmare mission - no reason to do these  when you get everything and they're not even a challenge to a high level player

Kill the profit taker once - once you've got your standing we don't need to worry about it anymore unless you're going to farm that 1% bloodshed sigil (nope...)or the mods

 

[kuciol]

Ok so you want rewards but dont want to Play the game. Entitlement at its finest. You make more and more  ridiculus claims.  Waiting 20 days to get alert for a skin and not carring  for that alert ever again is better then just buying the skin for cred.  Give me break.

Edited July 24, 2019 by kuciol

[DariusMcSwag]

4 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

I'm reasonably sure most of the playerbase could complete every nightwave task at least in regards to weeklies in three hours at most.  It's just easier to complain on the forums then actually go out there and do it.  Take this week for example, doing 9 invasion missions can be done in under half an hour just killing phorid over and over.  8 waves of ESO is 25 minutes or so.  10 nightmare missions is probably the longest challenge if you want it done ASAP just because then you'll not be doing just captures, sabotages, etc. etc. that all take a couple minutes per mission.  The nicest thing about nightmare mode missions is they can crossover with the 3 mobile defense and 3 spy missions you do this week to save you time.  

Widespread complaints are not what DE is going to listen to.  If you give good, constructive criticism that is valid and well thought out you probably have a much better chance of being heard.  I doubt they even read the threads in general about nightwave that complain about it, maybe they did at first but when you have a thread opening up seemingly every day complaining about NW I doubt they care to read it.  In fact it's better that they don't read it because it's usually a waste of time that could be spent working on warframe (seriously, I want railjack as do many others and I don't want it to be pushed further back.)  

That's why I made this Nightwave Rework post about a week ago. Through the help of others, its become something that I think a lot of players want. Nightwave can only get better if players let DE know the things that they would like to see added/changed. If you are at all curious, take a look, and if you have any suggestions of your own please feel free to post them there.

 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

The whole catch up mechanic keeps being thrown around like it fixes everything wrong with Nightwave. Due to the current "Kill Profit Taker" act, if someone can't do that, and within the timeframe of this Season, does not reach the Fortuna rank required to even attempt the fight (for whatever reason, from Orb Vallis crashing their PCs to just not liking to rank up that syndicate at the moment, having better things to do), every missed Act up to this point, will be forever locked away for them, because you have to clear all acts before the ones prior to it will be available to you, as far as I understand it.

This blockade effect will come into play for any act that a person cannot or will not be bothered to complete because they can "just skip" the ones they don't like, apparently... (except, surprise, they can't)

Edit:
To make the ramifications of this more clear: once the missed acts are beyond these blockades, those points must now be "made up" by doing acts that could otherwise have been skipped... they are now mathematically required to complete more acts per week than the overall "lenient" per week requirements that only hold true if you can actually rely on your schedule or in-game situation to allow you to actually play each week and accomplish those required acts (percentages, number of acts, whatever metric you're using.)

This forever shifts the scales and number of required acts, making the initial estimates fall flat and no longer apply to that person.

Now these people are being mocked for not playing enough, or changing their lives around to fit in Warframe every single week for 10 weeks+ (when this game never really required that of them before, and was never an issue)... when the WHOLE POINT of Nightwave was to make it less demanding on people's schedules... if you don't see the hilarity of the situation, I don't know the words.

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra
spelling out the ramifications

[Test-995]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The whole catch up mechanic keeps being thrown around like it fixes everything wrong with Nightwave. Due to the current "Kill Profit Taker" act, if someone can't do that, and within the timeframe of this Season, does not reach the Fortuna rank required to even attempt the fight (for whatever reason, from Orb Vallis crashing their PCs to just not liking to rank up that syndicate at the moment, having better things to do), every missed Act up to this point, will be forever locked away for them, because you have to clear all acts before the ones prior to it will be available to you, as far as I understand it.

This blockade effect will come into play for any act that a person cannot or will not be bothered to complete because they can "just skip" the ones they don't like, apparently... (except, surprise, they can't)

To be fair i suppose you can easily reach the max rank within a season unless you are MR 5 or below, i don't think some time gated content like that should be in nightwave though.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

1 minute ago, Test-995 said:

To be fair i suppose you can easily reach the max rank within a season unless you are MR 5 or below, i don't think some time gated content like that should be in nightwave though.

I was just using that one act as a touchstone example that has multiple reasons for not completing it, ranging from people's not wanting to, to not being able to, due to bugs, etc... but fully applies to the argument that people can skip any acts they like as the season progresses, and still be just fine... yeah, except for how the catchup system works: you have to complete all of a week's acts for incomplete acts to even show up... so yeah, you are forced into them to make use of this vaunted catchup mechanic.

[Gamma745]

11 hours ago, Oreades said:

For example last time (or at least as I recall) the 5 Cetus bounties came up I remember grinding out an Eidolon Lens because "Hey ya know I need one of those and why not". It got my bounties done, it netted me an Eidolon Lens and I was happy. This time around however I the qualifier that it needed to be different bounties had me running the basic bounty to check to see how srs it was about and sure enough the second run didn't count. 

So I could theoretically squeeze out one attempt at a lens and then I get to wait ~2hrs until the bounties cycle to try again or not have it count towards Nightwave. 

 

DE remember back in the day when you only got standing for the first time you ran the bounty until reset? Remember how popular that was? So why are we essentially back to square one? 

Just let people run the bounties they want. 

I was going to say something about this, but looks like someone beats me to it:

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Fun fact!

Out on the Plains, the Konzu tents often have three missions at the same rank, all count as a different Bounty. So you can take the 1 star, the 2 star and the 3 star from the tent in front of the main door, but then head out to the tent just south of The Seethe (for example) and it has two more of the 3 star Bounties to complete your 5 different Bounties.

I only discovered this one yesterday when I realised that it really did mean 5 different Bounties... But it was a convenient find.

I'm just going to add that the Bounty available on the further out tents follows your previous Bounty tier.

[kuciol]

You pick easy week and boom, done. You look for a problem where there is none. The level of greed and entitlement in this topic is of the charts. You want those smexy cosmetics? Work for them, effort is what makes rewards rewarding. Under any circumstances you should NOT be rewarded by "doing whatever I feel like doing". The whole game is built around doing specific activities for specific rewards but now its a problem. Really. Not wanting to and not being able to yet are not valid reasons. You dont want to? To bad its your choice. You cant? Too bad, at least you have something to work towards. I dont even know how many times ive repeated this but : YOU NEED ABOUT 65% OF POINTS TO GET RANK 30. If even that is beyond your reach then you have many more things to focus on first. 

 

Every single complain pointed here boils down to "i want those cosmetics but game tels me to play it". Thats the real problem here. I really could get behind tweaking cred gains, i could support making previous cosmetics accessible in some way but i will always object that kind of reasoning. There are different reasons for that attitude, like vets bored of the game that expected this to be something completely different then what its supposed to be or people not wanting to do different types of content but it always boils down to simple greed. 

 

[Test-995]

26 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You pick easy week and boom, done. You look for a problem where there is none. The level of greed and entitlement in this topic is of the charts. You want those smexy cosmetics? Work for them, effort is what makes rewards rewarding. Under any circumstances you should NOT be rewarded by "doing whatever I feel like doing". The whole game is built around doing specific activities for specific rewards but now its a problem. Really. Not wanting to and not being able to yet are not valid reasons. You dont want to? To bad its your choice. You cant? Too bad, at least you have something to work towards. I dont even know how many times ive repeated this but : YOU NEED ABOUT 65% OF POINTS TO GET RANK 30. If even that is beyond your reach then you have many more things to focus on first. 

 

Every single complain pointed here boils down to "i want those cosmetics but game tels me to play it". Thats the real problem here. I really could get behind tweaking cred gains, i could support making previous cosmetics accessible in some way but i will always object that kind of reasoning. There are different reasons for that attitude, like vets bored of the game that expected this to be something completely different then what its supposed to be or people not wanting to do different types of content but it always boils down to simple greed. 

 

I think i should be rewarded for doing whatever i want to do at least in nightwave and that's better for everyone, DE included.

[kuciol]

No, its not. Those are replacements for alerts, those asked you to do specific missions in specific time. NW is atleast elastic and more diverse in those aspects. You get rewards for the content you do. NW is incentive to diversify your gameplay and you get rewarded for both. You already get rewarded up front for doing whatever, its called login rewards. What next? Maybe they should make prime parts drop in any mission instead of fissure? Or maybe arcanes should drop anywhere not only Eidolons? This reason screams entitlement . That mindest needs to go. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by kuciol

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

No, its not. Those are replacements for alerts, those asked you to do specific missions in specific time. NW is atleast elastic and more diverse in those aspects. You get rewards for the content you do. NW is incentive to diversify your gameplay and you get rewarded for both. You already get rewarded up front for doing whatever, its called login rewards. What next? Maybe they should make prime parts drop in any mission instead of fissure? Or maybe arcanes should drop anywhere not only Eidolons? This reason screams entitlement . That mindest needs to go. 

Yeah, bunch of people hated alert too and that thing also needed improvement.

Login reward is rewarding us for login and not doing whatever, login reward doesn't require us to play any mission, they could implement something like daily mission boost or bonus syndicate for first bunch of missions if they want reward us for "just by playing" like you saying multiple times.

People like you are talking exactly same things over and over without trying to understand or even read what they say, i hope you can stop shouting those meaningless exaggeration no one talking about.

[kuciol]

The only ones talking only about same things are NW haters. There wasnt a single valid complain yet. Every single one of them are people wanting rewards without putting any effort. When you start just giving things away they are no longer rewards.

[LSG501]

7 hours ago, kuciol said:

Ok so you want rewards but dont want to Play the game. Entitlement at its finest. You make more and more  ridiculus claims.  Waiting 20 days to get alert for a skin and not carring  for that alert ever again is better then just buying the skin for cred.  Give me break.

Assuming that was aimed at me...

No I want to not have to do things I have no need to do to get the few things I actually 'need', the old alert system allowed us to pick and choose the rewards we wanted to go after and while I'm not saying alerts were perfect they were, for a high level player, better because we could choose what we wanted to do about the alert reward.

The new system forces higher level players to do things we have no need or interest in doing if we want anything from the cred rewards, let alone the tier rewards, which while fine for newbies is anything but fine for those of us who don't need anything from creds (except the ornament), like me which basically means I've got 5/6 useless tier rewards....

There was nothing inherently wrong with the alert system other than the duration of alerts and for those that missed it the timing being wrong.  Most complaints came about due to nitain being alert based and that could have easily been fixed by ensuring there was at least each alert for nitain lasted 6 hours, 4 alerts at 6 hours each ensures that no matter when you log on there would always have been a nitain available. 

If DE want to have nightwave they need to make it feel less like chores, this one feels even more of a chore than the first one, for those of us who are high level.  An easy solution is to give us a LOT more options to pick from weekly but put a weekly cap on how much we can earn (they've basically done that this nightwave due to no 'wolf guys' to farm).  

Argumentatively you could say that nightwave is nothing more than an artificial way to increase player participation in forgotten/ignored content because lets be honest there is a lot of the 'finish and forget' content that's stuck in nightwave and there's usually a reason why that is forgotten/ignored content... there's no reason for us to go back to it.

Edited July 24, 2019 by LSG501

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

8 hours ago, Test-995 said:

I think i should be rewarded for doing whatever i want to do at least in nightwave and that's better for everyone, DE included.

If I don't particularly care for excavation, should I demand cryotic be added to exterminate drop tables?

Want the rewards?  Play the missions.  It's how the entire game works.

[kuciol]

6 hours ago, LSG501 said:

No I want to not have to do things I have no need to do to get the few things I actually 'need', the old alert system allowed us to pick and choose the rewards we wanted to go after and while I'm not saying alerts were perfect they were, for a high level player, better because we could choose what we wanted to do about the alert reward.

Thats a stupid statement. You had to be lucky to get what you actually wanted, rewards were trash mostly. Once you got mods and weapons there was no incentive to go back ever. You literally had to schedule your life around game. The fact that app for alerts exist is proof enough for that. NW has literally the same rewards in cred shop + a lot better ones on top and it lets you choose when you do them and how. System that forces you to play on systems schedule is better then system that gives you a week and lets you choose is better? Thats a blatant lie. There was nothing good to get from alerts besides nitain. We had once a month alert for forma or catalyst and thats it. The system was based on wrong premise and you cant defend that. You say NW is "artificially" forcing you to do old content. Thats also wrong way of thinking. Its meant to do that so its not artificial, the fact that you do it proves that it works. Its good incentive. Alerts and NW were never and shouldnt be aimed towards Vets. As i said, you want the rewards but are not willing to put the effort to get them simply because you are bored of the game but dont want to admit it. Alerts had crappy rewards, forced you to do specific missions and forced you to schedule your time around game. NW solves all of those problem. Please stop with this 5yo mentality that you should get rewarded by doing whatever you feel like doing. 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

As i said, you want the rewards but are not willing to put the effort to get them simply because you are bored of the game but dont want to admit it. Alerts had crappy rewards, forced you to do specific missions and forced you to schedule your time around game. NW solves all of those problem. Please stop with this 5yo mentality that you should get rewarded by doing whatever you feel like doing. 

This is pretty much the perfect summary.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

1. Thats a stupid statement.
2. You had to be lucky to get what you actually wanted, rewards were trash mostly. Once you got mods and weapons there was no incentive to go back ever.
3. You literally had to schedule your life around game. The fact that app for alerts exist is proof enough for that. NW has literally the same rewards in cred shop + a lot better ones on top and it lets you choose when you do them and how.
4. System that forces you to play on systems schedule is better then system that gives you a week and lets you choose is better? Thats a blatant lie. There was nothing good to get from alerts besides nitain.
5. We had once a month alert for forma or catalyst and thats it.
6. The system was based on wrong premise and you cant defend that.
7. You say NW is "artificially" forcing you to do old content. Thats also wrong way of thinking. Its meant to do that so its not artificial, the fact that you do it proves that it works.
8. Its good incentive. 
9. Alerts and NW were never and shouldnt be aimed towards Vets.
10. As i said, you want the rewards but are not willing to put the effort to get them simply because you are bored of the game but dont want to admit it.
11. Alerts had crappy rewards, forced you to do specific missions and forced you to schedule your time around game. NW solves all of those problem.
12. Please stop with this 5yo mentality that you should get rewarded by doing whatever you feel like doing. 

You know paragraphs make reading a lot easier....

So

1)  did you actually read your own post after you'd typed it...

2) You know you're actually backing up my comments right...

3) no you didn't.... you only did that because you wanted it right then.  You're also confusing early game with high level or long term players who already have everything in the cred store....

4) Once again you're confusing early game and high level players.... I love people trying to argue without even reading my post properly first

5) and.... if that's the best argument for nightwave then there's something wrong.  You do know that invasions used to drop catalysts and since nightwave there have been less of them than before.  Forma is easy to get from relics so not sure why you needed alerts for them.  You're basically saying it's great you can get an catalyst when you want it, well when you've got the free creds that is....

6) Yes nightwave was based on the wrong premise and no I can't defend it...

7) If I want to get the 'only available from nightwave 2' items I am being forced to do content I don't need to do because there is no other way of getting said items outside of getting to 300k standing in nightwave.  Due to the limited amount of time that nightwave is around we are forced to redo thing, sometimes multiple times, that high level players have absolutely no need to do. 

8 ) No it's not, a good incentive to go back and do old content is giving old content something worth replaying in the first place, not artificially inflating player numbers on a node by sticking a challenge on it for a week...

9) Of course they're aimed at vets... if it wasn't there wouldn't be elite challenges and items which are specifically aimed at high level players... newbies don't exactly need umbra forma now do they.

10) I'm happy to put the effort in but I don't want to be doing stuff I have no need to be doing.... you know if you actually read my post you'll see I have zero reason to do the ones I mentioned earlier other than to get standing.  I get no benefit from doing them which in turn means I don't enjoy them which in turn makes it feel like a chore.... I still enjoy the game and I'm sure newbies are enjoying doing nightwave (if they can do all the challenges) but for a high level player who has already done things to death to get all their rewards it is incredibly boring to be forced into doing things I don't need to be doing.

11) You do know that the rewards in nightwave are the exact same 'crappy rewards' of alerts (plus an ornament) just behind chores and a timegate... Many high level players already have everything such as auras, weapon bp's, weapons skins and helmets plus in some cases we're already stocked up on potatoes (I have more reactors than I'll ever need and enough catalysts for any new weapon I might be interested in) and nitain (I'm currently at well over 100 nitain and most came from the alerts)

12) I'm not the one resorting to insults to try and make a point