Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(NSW)Belaptir]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

So, tell me again how I was wrong when I said they don't just drop exclusive mods, because 5 of them can be gotten from Lua Spy? You do know the meaning of "exclusive" right?

Yeah, you can find an Eidolon while levelling weapons if you're free roaming on the Plains. But you're ignoring my point which was well made to make stupid responses. 

No, I'm saying equip one weapon that allows you to fight the Wolf.  If you choose not to when you know there is an increasing chance for the wolf to spawn. That's on you for choosing not to be prepared. I'm not even MR27 yet. I didn't realise there were enough points to be MR27 until I saw people mentioning it today.

I do know it, but you don't seem to. Almost all are completely exclusive to the acolytes and 5 of them can be found also in a spy mission that almost nobody does. I'd consider them also exclusive since the easiest way of finding them is an acolyte. Theoretically, they aren't, but technically they are since nobody does spy lua anyway.

You must be the only player that free roams on the plains to level up weapons and, when sees an Eidolon, stays fighting it instead of moving a couple hundred meters away from him to avoid all danger. Or do the Teralyst follow you across the plains? I guess that's something from the new plains, because I never saw an Eidolon do such things. I'm not ignoring your point, you made a stupid point; it's ok, happens to everybody.

And yes, you are basically saying that everyone should be prepared to fight the wolf as if that was something that everybody can do. You don't seem to understand that there is people who can't be asked to be prepared to fight him and will encounter him anyway. Or that there are a lot of situations in which you can't be prepared, but then again, you are blinded by your bias. You think that everybody is like you, and that, since you play like that and works for you, everybody else should, actually, you are just saying that it's your problem if someone just started playing a week ago, hasn't even reached Helene and has to encounter and suffer the wolf because they are not prepared. I guess you never were a MR1 that had to level up his new paris (not the prime), along with the bo and the kunai on Lith, Earth.

Elitist, much?

[(NSW)Belaptir]

16 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Let's think about it, "Now eidolon hydrolist spawns on normal missions randomly, be sure to bring good gear!"

It'll be total chaos, newbie killer, and making levelling harder.

I like it.

God! Me wants!! Can't wait to see a Hydrolist spawn on Hydron, or even better, on a Uranus underwater spy! I'd love to see an hydrolist diving!

[GODStarKing]

can we have a repeatable night wave that runs all the time but it is caped with the points like 

kill a night wave boss that spans in X place 

because i have NOT GOTTEN the wolf drop and dont know what to do with my self now cant buy parts cause he is expensive and i want to get all event items 

 

please help rn jesus help me 

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Except for bit where each ended maybe an hour after it started. 

Right now, prestige ranks award players who are done over 60 credits per week. What you're suggesting is a steep downgrade. Also many of the seasoned vets don't really care about the vast majority of the creds store offerings. So it's by no means good for them either. 

Uh... Potato, forma, kuva, arcane, umbral forma... I'm not getting 15 from that (and some people groused about the quantity of the kuva, and the potato and forma may be quicker to farm parts for plat and just buy those). Remember those cosmetics are mostly one and done. 

Sorry but unless they're handing out umbral forma like candy, I just don't see it working. Remember, many of us wanted it so badly that we consented to grind out 290k worth of standing over the course of 5-7 weeks and many others will get there before the end of week 10-11. 

I'd guess that stronger players helped to carry the weaker players just based on the stats I saw along the way. What happens to the weaker players if the strong stopped bothering with the weeklies? A big part of an event like this is the fact that everyone is trying to complete the same challenges all at the same time. 

 

I'm not saying that the idea won't work, but I'm not seeing it working based on what you said. 

If 4 mr8's show up and do a mission. Then repeat mission replacing to 8's with 2 mr 24's.....are the mr 24's really carrying the mission because they dominate the stats?. 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

3 hours ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Sure, but none of them are time limited.And in the event they are (take acolytes), they drop only exclusive mods. Not a molten impact.

 

2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

No, the Acolytes do not drop only exclusive mods, They drop crap too.

 

 

 

 

2

1 hour ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

I do know it, but you don't seem to. Almost all are completely exclusive to the acolytes and 5 of them can be found also in a spy mission that almost nobody does. I'd consider them also exclusive since the easiest way of finding them is an acolyte. Theoretically, they aren't, but technically they are since nobody does spy lua anyway.

No, it seems you don't.

Also, you consider the easiest way is to do an event that comes along every few months for a week. Rather than the spy mission which is always there?

1 hour ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

You must be the only player that free roams on the plains to level up weapons and, when sees an Eidolon, stays fighting it instead of moving a couple hundred meters away from him to avoid all danger.

Did I say that? No. The point I made was that you don't go on an Eidolon Hunt with an MK-1 Braton, you go prepared. A point you are completely ignoring to make up disingenuous idiotic responses. because you don't want to plan for the Wolf in any of your missions. You just want him to spawn and die at your feet with no effort and drop the L33T hammer parts.

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

who can't be asked

That's not the phrase.
 

And no the point I'm making is if you "Can't be Ar**d" to prepare for fighting the wolf, then that's on you, and don't come here complaining about how hard he is or how he wrecks you over and over. 

[Test-995]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You just want him to spawn and die at your feet with no effort and drop the L33T hammer parts.

I suppose he want him to spawn in some specific maps, or not spawn at all.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

 

 

No, it seems you don't.

Also, you consider the easiest way is to do an event that comes along every few months for a week. Rather than the spy mission which is always there?

Did I say that? No. The point I made was that you don't go on an Eidolon Hunt with an MK-1 Braton, you go prepared. A point you are completely ignoring to make up disingenuous idiotic responses. because you don't want to plan for the Wolf in any of your missions. You just want him to spawn and die at your feet with no effort and drop the L33T hammer parts.

 

That's not the phrase.
 

And no the point I'm making is if you "Can't be Ar**d" to prepare for fighting the wolf, then that's on you, and don't come here complaining about how hard he is or how he wrecks you over and over. 

Phew... where do I begin?

You want to go that way? Yes, they are exclusive. They drop only in 2 places, 1 are the events and the other a single spy mission. Yes, they are exclusive of those two places. Nowhere else you can find them. They won't drop you a molten impact or a shocking touch that can be found almost everywhere.

And yes, I consider them easier there because that single mission is a pain and you rarely find anyone doing it. So yes, many people think that it's easier to wait for the acolytes rather than doing a mission they consider a pain.

Then, you seem to not understand that the wolf can appear in every single mission of the star chart while the eidolon is a boss located in a certain point at a certain time. You can't compare them because they are far from being comparable. My point stands; a MR0 with an MK-1 Braton won't go fighting an Eidolon even if they find it in the plains. They'll move away from him and continue with whatever they were doing; the same MR0 with an MK-1 Braton can find the Wolf while levelling it on the Earth defense. See how silly is saying what you said? Nobody said that we want him to spawn and die at our feet with no effort. But it is clear that spawning such a beast in a random mission where there can be people unprepared is not the way to go. Again, what many of us are suggesting is a different way of making him spawn: call it beacons, call it a mission node where you need points to enter (much like the ambulas), call it an acolyte type of enemy that works like those acolytes from the stalker but without the general HP bar they have.

Lastly, yes, it is the phrase. You can't ask a MR0 to be prepared for the wolf. They won't be able to. Can't you understand that there is people like that? Did you really forget what means to be a MR0? Or are you just behaving like an elitist that doesn't care about anyone except themselves?

Again, the point you are making is "if you can't be prepared for the wolf, I don't care, it's your problem and no one else's because I'm always preapred for and everyone should be". You really don't get that there is people unable to fight him, and it's incredibly selfish from you.

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

So your fine with ANYONE who isnt up to your level of time invested in this game WITH ALERTS all the way up to the last month, should be allowed to have their entertainment ruined so you can feel special that this worthless plot device DOESNT ruin your entertainment?

It's the players fault? that this thing requires, an arca plasmor that does 20k & a kitgun that does 30k or whatever to make the content passable? this is acceptable?

Grin & bear it, suck it up all of you! quit whining, how dare you complain that this contrived pile of pig meat is too tough, go get better! oh and have fun taking him on randomly, be unable to hurt him & just shut up.

I can pretty much promise if you had this thing drop in the early days of play, you would be in the same boat just about every new switch player is experiencing right this minute, that every new player is having to deal with & veterans dont want to carry people through because this plot device isnt worth the time.

Is the wolf worth it? worth getting those weapons? getting that MR just to be able to not have your free time derailed everytime this screaming putz decides to make an appearance? because thats the only solution right? this isnt real life, this is entertainment, one should enjoy the experience, not WORK HARD playing, thats just another job.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

So your fine with ANYONE who isnt up to your level of time invested in this game WITH ALERTS all the way up to the last month, should be allowed to have their entertainment ruined so you can feel special that this worthless plot device DOESNT ruin your entertainment?

It's the players fault? that this thing requires, an arca plasmor that does 20k & a kitgun that does 30k or whatever to make the content passable? this is acceptable?

Grin & bear it, suck it up all of you! quit whining, how dare you complain that this contrived pile of pig meat is too tough, go get better! oh and have fun taking him on randomly, be unable to hurt him & just shut up.

I can pretty much promise if you had this thing drop in the early days of play, you would be in the same boat just about every new switch player is experiencing right this minute, that every new player is having to deal with & veterans dont want to carry people through because this plot device isnt worth the time.

Is the wolf worth it? worth getting those weapons? getting that MR just to be able to not have your free time derailed everytime this screaming putz decides to make an appearance? because thats the only solution right? this isnt real life, this is entertainment, one should enjoy the experience, not WORK HARD playing, thats just another job.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

You want to go that way? Yes, they are exclusive. They drop only in 2 places, 1 are the events and the other a single spy mission. Yes, they are exclusive of those two places. Nowhere else you can find them. They won't drop you a molten impact or a shocking touch that can be found almost everywhere.

Not at all what you said, Stop trying to move the goal post and admit you were wrong.

 

28 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Then, you seem to not understand that the wolf can appear in every single mission of the star chart while the eidolon is a boss located in a certain point at a certain time. You can't compare them because they are far from being comparable.

No, I get that, You don't seem to get the point that if you aren't willing to be prepared for the chance he may spawn. Don't complain that it is broken because you got wrecked because you chose not to be prepared. You keep ignoring or not understanding that point just so you can come back with a stupid unrelated answer.

 

30 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Lastly, yes, it is the phrase.

No, it's not. Wrong again.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/can't+be+arsed

33 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

You can't ask a MR0 to be prepared for the wolf. They won't be able to.

Yep, and I wouldn't expect an MR0 to be prepared for Zanuka, The Grustrag 3 or "What Stalker?"

 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Again, the point you are making is "if you can't be prepared for the wolf, I don't care, it's your problem and no one else's because I'm always preapred for and everyone should be". You really don't get that there is people unable to fight him, and it's incredibly selfish from you.

Nope, again you missed the part where I said I was unprepared twice. You did not see me on the forums complaining about how he was too tough and he killed me one time, and the other time took 5 minutes to whittle him down. You also don't see me bragging I've soloed him several times.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Not at all what you said, Stop trying to move the goal post and admit you were wrong.

 

No, I get that, You don't seem to get the point that if you aren't willing to be prepared for the chance he may spawn. Don't complain that it is broken because you got wrecked because you chose not to be prepared. You keep ignoring or not understanding that point just so you can come back with a stupid unrelated answer.

 

No, it's not. Wrong again.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/can't+be+arsed

Yep, and I wouldn't expect an MR0 to be prepared for Zanuka, The Grustrag 3 or "What Stalker?"

 

Nope, again you missed the part where I said I was unprepared twice. You did not see me on the forums complaining about how he was too tough and he killed me one time, and the other time took 5 minutes to whittle him down. You also don't see me bragging I've soloed him several times.

Wow, just... wow. You really don't see that there is people in a low MR that is unable to fight him and beat him, right? I'm out of this discusion, it's pointless to try to discuss something with someone who won't see other than their truth.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

 

 

 

2

1 minute ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Wow, just... wow. You really don't see that there is people in a low MR that is unable to fight him and beat him, right? I'm out of this discusion, it's pointless to try to discuss something with someone who won't see other than their truth.

Yes, I do see that, but I also see that they won't be able to beat Stalker, Zanuka, and The Grustrag 3. So why should Rid$&*^ of Wall Street be a pushover just because you don't want to equip the right gear to face him?
 

Also, you're correct it would be pointless for me to continue this discussion when you can't even admit that you have been wrong several times in this discussion.

[Test-995]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Yes, I do see that, but I also see that they won't be able to beat Stalker, Zanuka, and The Grustrag 3. So why should Rid$&*^ of Wall Street be a pushover just because you don't want to equip the right gear to face him?

Stalker, will escape once you downed, Zanuka and Grustrag Doesn't spawn as long as you keeping distance from invasion missions. (and grustrags activates extraction on spawn)

And most importantly, both of those aren't goddamn bullet sponge.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

1 minute ago, Test-995 said:

Stalker, will escape once you downed, Zanuka and Grustrag Doesn't spawn as long as you keeping distance from invasion missions. (and grustrags activates extraction on spawn)

And most importantly, both of those aren't goddamn bullet sponge.

Wolf escapes when everyone is downed too. And when you're MR0 they are bullet sponges.

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Wow, just... wow. You really don't see that there is people in a low MR that is unable to fight him and beat him, right? I'm out of this discusion, it's pointless to try to discuss something with someone who won't see other than their truth.

Ummmm, why should they be able too? There is no reason what so ever for a low MR to be able to kill the Wolf.  Just as there is no reason for a low MR to be able to kill Stalker, Grustrag 3, or Zanuka.  They just don't have the mods needed for their gear to effectively fight them.  Also, rarely do any of these enemies appear on low level areas unless a higher player is present also.  Meaning that once that low MR player reaches the point where they can meet those enemies, they are no longer considered to be low MR (lower than MR 7).  

I'm just confused at the reasoning that low Mr should be able to beat Wolf.  That's like saying P-51 Mustang should be able to beat a F-22 Raptor.  😄  

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Wolf escapes when everyone is downed too. And when you're MR0 they are bullet sponges.

Oh it's nice i didn't know that.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Ummmm, why should they be able too? There is no reason what so ever for a low MR to be able to kill the Wolf.  Just as there is no reason for a low MR to be able to kill Stalker, Grustrag 3, or Zanuka.  They just don't have the mods needed for their gear to effectively fight them.  Also, rarely do any of these enemies appear on low level areas unless a higher player is present also.  Meaning that once that low MR player reaches the point where they can meet those enemies, they are no longer considered to be low MR (lower than MR 7).  

I'm just confused at the reasoning that low Mr should be able to beat Wolf.  That's like saying P-51 Mustang should be able to beat a F-22 Raptor.  😄  

Exactly, nobody is saying that the low MR should be able to beat Wolf. We're saying that Wolf shouldn't appear on a mission full of low MR players because they won't be able to fight him. That's why people is asking for a different way of spawning him and saying that the way it is now, it's poor game design.

The stalker will only appear after a certain point. And Zanuka and G3 will only appear under certain conditions and, most importantly, will activate the extraction as soon as they appear. On top of that, they are nowhere near as hard to kill as Wolf and, in case of the stalker (which won't activate extraction on spawn) will leave you alone the moment he kills you once.

With the Wolf none of this happens. And he can appear in any mission to any player.

5 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Oh it's nice i didn't know that. 

No, he doesn't. Just suffered him on hydron a few hours ago and he didn't go. Either if it's a bug or intended, IDK, but he doesn't escape after everyone is downed. Reason why most people will leave the game when he spawns.

Edited April 13, 2019 by (NSW)Belaptir

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

4 hours ago, Graavarg said:

Well, it seems to me that you are assuming that the design goals actually was that players should achieve rank 30, but that is absurd.

Reaching rank 30 is easily possible for most, if not all players (since even a MR0 starting the 1st week could do it).

Reaching rank 30 by skipping a lot of challenges, by just not doing them or not playing Warframe, why should that even be possible? This is the "entitlement syndrome" I was referring to, the idea that the game should be adapted to your personal life, needs, wants and feelings outside the game. The idea that while your decisions and real life impacts when, how much and what you can play (and of course they do), you should still be "entitled" to reach rank 30, and since you will not or cannot do what actually needs to be done it is the game that should be fixed and adapted instead. This way of thinking (if it is "thinking") feels completely absurd to me, it really does.

I have my own "feelings" about Nightwave, I would like the 1 hour challenges back (I think they were the best part), I want the "forced friending" to stay gone forever (on principle) and I am deeply disappointed that Prestige ranks only gives 15 Wolf credits, because what is on offer in the Wolf store is not stuff I want or need (just put Forma on offer, and I would be ok with it, because, well, you ALWAYS need more Forma). Or something really good and insanely expensive that you splurge all Wolf credits on.

But I do not feel that I am entitled to such things, or that Nightwave (as a concept) sucks because of this, and I do not write mopy "I will stop playing unless DE does what I want"-comments because of this. And it is not about "me", I really think a few better shop items costing mucho credits and worth grinding for would improve Nightwave for ALL players, I think that doing the 1 hour missions is good and exciting for A LOT of players (many, many players had never done anything like a 1hr survival at that level without being able to use life support modules). I think the FOMO stress was both unnecessary and stupid (since it generated a lot more stress than anticipation or excitement). I also think 10 weeks is a bit too long, especially since those "into this" clears most challenges during the first 24 hrs, which leads to the rest of the week actually being more empty than before (alert-wise). And staying invested for 2,5 months, that's a LOOONG time. However, overall I think that putting alerts in a larger concept is a great idea, and that this 1st try is quite good, but could become even better. And that the one thing that could actually destroy this is the "me, me, me, warframe should be all about me"-gripe, which DE unfortunately occasionally listens to.

EDIT: I forgot this little bit at the start: The whole Rank 30 is for everyone thing is mainly based on the fact that every rank beyond that is considered "Prestige", or above and beyond the normal achievable rank (that's why it's prestige, and the others aren't) and I hold DE to that, because people are holding DE's wording to the flames regarding Acts as "Challenges" and the expected difficulty expected of "Elite" challenges, and such.

The other reason, is the whole 60% thing that everyone likes to say is all you need, was supposed to allay fears of missing out... you don't NEED to do more than 60% to get everything important from the event... that's the overall feel I personally get from the source of that figure. (from DE mostly, but also from the people perpetuating it.) "Everyone" should be able to do AT LEAST that much... (and players tacked on the feelings and insinuations: "like, really, how little do you play this game? Do you even like it? Come on.")

(the rest un-edited)

Design Goals:

 

A few quotes to make the points easier to find:

Quote

- Random Alerts are going away and have been replaced with a Rotation of rewards within Nora's Cred Offerings. This allows players to plan, prioritize and access content for free that previously relied on 'right time, right place' often within a 60 minute window.

- Old mission XP challenges from within single missions are going away - replaced with Nora's challenges that persist throughout multiple missions and have more substantial reward. Old mission XP challenges rewarded one thing: Affinity in a mission. Now by completing Nora's broader challenges, called Acts, you can unlock different rewards by simply playing the game with these new challenges in mind.

 

 

 

Quote

 

What the current system lacks: 

• Reliability: Missing a time limited mission with an Alert-only reward means waiting for it to rotate back into the live Alerts, at which time you may not be available (work, school, walking the dog, sleep, you know, the important stuff!). 
  • Creates roadblocks to earning some of the essentials for new players (ex: Aura Mods), and general required crafting resources (ex: Nitain). 
  • This has also created dependencies on the Warframe Alerts Twitter accounts and other third party apps that track Alert status that pulls you out of the game. 
• Clutter: Just scroll the @WarframeAlerts feed... Credits. Credits. Credits. Credits. 
• Challenge/Variety: For players with resource, weapon, and Credit abundances, etc. the Alerts tend to fall in the “if needed” category and are mostly overshadowed by Sorties as they offer more level appropriate missions and rewards. Alert difficulty levels are also  random, so while active Alerts may offer needed rewards, the mission required to earning them may not be of interest.    
• Fun-Factor/Narrative: "Tenno, there is a time-limited mission Alert available. Check navigation." said the Lotus. 

 

Reliability:

Subgoals:

We want to eradicate the “snooze (literally) you lose” system we have now and give the freedom to choose the rewards you want/need from the current Alert system (and more down the road!) in a more reliable and predictable format. No more Twitter feeds, no more “wrong time wrong place” - it will all be housed under the Nightwave roof. 

* "Remove 'Snooze, you lose' / 'Right time, right place'"
* Make it possible for people with jobs/etc to get Alert offerings through progressive effort instead of RNG ("plan, prioritize and access content"):

They just moved this issue to a rotating Cred Shop. If the item you want appears during the first week of the 10 week event when you don't have enough time to play to get the first wolf cred reward package, and it doesn't show up again in the rotations for the next 10 weeks, and you didn't have enough cred in that first week, and you save enough creds for that one item every week, hoping upon hopes that it shows up again (RNG) - planning and prioritizing - you may just end up wasting those creds buying something you don't need in the last week of the event just to get "something" from it - because Creds EXPIRE and you can't plan ahead for a random shop selection! (this could also be the case if you get tired of waiting for the item to appear in the shop and spend all your cred on other stuff that is currently in the shop, and then the next week it finally shows up... sorry.)

This was also exasperated by the 10 week time period of the event with limited selection of challenges available per week imposing a cap on standing per week, and the only possible make-up mechanic being hunting down the fugitives to make up lost standing. If you start too late in the series, or miss out on too many challenges each week (for a variety of reasons, some player choice, some out of their hands) sorry, you 'snooze, you lose' on some of the items with the biggest draw to the new event, I mean syndicate, I mean, core game system, that are of any real value to people that already have the stuff in the cred shop ("exclusive" or otherwise hard to obtain standing rank-up rewards at ranks 25, 28,29,30).

People with limited time to play and want to make that "progressive effort" rather than RNG for a quick mission, now have to spend a large chunk of that limited time "simply playing the game with these new challenges in mind." - which boils down in practice, to doing a list of chores that may or may not be fun or beneficial to them, and in some cases, is far from what they would be doing on their own agenda of 'simply playing the game.'

 

Clutter:

Never bothered me.

It doesn't need to be on my orbiter's navigation "decoration" like a wall of text... their choice of presentation could be changed. Calling a long list of potential activities clutter... sure, that's one word for it... not one I'd use.

 

Challenge/Variety:

"Challenge/Variety: For players with resource, weapon, and Credit abundances, etc. the Alerts tend to fall in the “if needed” category and are mostly overshadowed by Sorties as they offer more level appropriate missions and rewards. Alert difficulty levels are also  random, so while active Alerts may offer needed rewards, the mission required to earning them may not be of interest."

I'm sorry, but did they read this before they posted it? It kinda makes its own point against itself, knowing what replaced Alerts. They say... "so while active Alerts may offer needed rewards" (in Nightwave, read: either Nightwave rank rewards or Cred shop rewards) "the mission required to earning them may not be of interest." (read: Nightwave acts/challenges that are basically chores that people don't want to be forced to do...)

Good Fix! I mean, I don't want to sound harsh, but the reality is that it didn't fulfill this design goal. Problem remains. And "challenge" was never the problem with Alerts. People didn't seek Alerts for their daily dose of warframe challenge... that was Sorties, Nightmare missions, Sanctuary Onslaught, and the like.

The whole "if needed" part was one of the BENEFITS of the Alert system. If a good alert popped up that had something you wanted, BONUS, you run a mission and get that thing. If you didn't care about the alert, you could skip it without a second thought - the rewards cycled through on a fairly fast schedule - even if you wanted the thing and the mission type was unappealing, you could safely skip the interception, and wait for the reward to come back in a mission type you like. If you didn't need the rewards, what harm was there in the alert's existence for people who did need it?

Prior to Nightwave, playing warframe could be done at your own pace, doing what you wanted to do, to have fun - in a variety of activities ... if variety was what you were after you could do star chart nodes, open world stuff, fishing, mining, spy vaults, exterminates, boss assassinations - but grinding the same thing over and over (farming) can be fun, or this game would be in real trouble... Variety wasn't a problem innate to alerts, requiring its replacement by Nightwave.

That is, variety wasn't a problem unless you were a person who found it difficult to self-motivate and create your own goals, or figure out a variety of ways to accomplish them, I guess... but then, why did Alerts need to die to give them a list of chores? They could potentially co-exist.

 

Fun-Factor/Narrative:

Totally missed the mark on Fun-Factor, IMO, and many others' opinions... (Of course, fun is subjective, and some liked the 1hr survival stuff) however, Challenges/Acts are totally disconnected from the narrative. Nora randomly "rewards"/Incentivizes "good deeds" ... (each week rewarded for different things - suddenly one week they're worthy of reward, the next? nope, that's not a good deed this week) (which can include using a certain damage type to kill enemies or using forma to enhance our weapons... oh, why are you incentivizing these actions again? How is enhancing our weapons a good deed worthy of reward? Dis Connec Ted.)

The old "narrative" of "Tenno, there is a time-limited mission Alert available. Check navigation." said the Lotus.
Actually... this felt more connected to me, because they felt like Ninja contracts that we mercenaries could accept or ignore. Finishing a contract gave us our pay that we could see up front and decide if it was worth our time or not.

 

 

I presented my most thought-out version of a possible merging of Alerts and Nightwave as a response to this thread, thus connecting the narrative:

I'll copy/paste it here to keep this all together:

Alerts WITH Nightwave (Changes to incorporate both)

Nightwave now has Nightwave Alerts (originally I thought Fugitive Alerts, but this is keeping it non-themed to work with future seasons)
(Nora is broadcasting gossip and locations of fugitives and possible activities of these groups that are up to no good, so we Tenno can hear her and act on it if we so desire)

Now, we get an alert that there's a group of fugitives doing X on planet X. Sure would be nice if some kind Tenno stopped them. Or maybe the Corpus or Grineer have information about the whereabouts of the Wolf, but they're not in a sharing mood...
(I've listed a few other options in other posts, making use of Capture, Spy, Mobile Defense, etc, as mission objectives themed to the series. Nora would take over for the Lotus/Ordtus messages.)

3 of these Nightwave Alerts would need to be completed in "chains" (like Invasions and Sorties), opening up a Wolf Assassination Alert OR access to a Wolf Beacon in the Cred Shop.
There could be 3 main types of Nightwave Alert Chains:
* Acts of Kindness, Acts of Defiance, Acts of Generosity...

Some of the Acts of Kindness and Generosity could be new Alert types based loosely on current "challenges", focused on non-combat objectives (Mining, Fishing, opening lockers, finding mods), while Acts of Defiance are mostly the tried and true common mission types we all know.

These alerts could have rare resource rewards as extra briber... I mean incentives... Nora likes incentivizing. (these would be ALL the things the old Alerts used to reward - resources, credits - in larger amounts - , cosmetics, blueprints, mods - including the things Nightwave now has in its shop, the shop stays as an RNG equalizer, just in case schedules don't work out - though, with the next changes, even that seems unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to have more options!)

Nightwave Alerts with their "incentives" would stay active for at least 6hrs, up to 12-24hrs before the "incentives" and/or objectives change. (While rare resources and credits could be offered for the minimum 6hrs, there could be a Capture for 12hrs with an Orokin Catalyst incentive, changing to an Interception for the same catalyst for the next 12hrs - or quicker 20min-1hr objective changes (like invasion mission types change every so often) to bring back the old alert rotation feel, while keeping the "Incentive" the same the whole time so you have all that time to run a mission to get it.

Now, it doesn't matter so much WHEN the Alert appears that you've been waiting for... no waking up in the middle of the night to catch the 20minute-2hr window. I'd even propose a way to "tag" an alert as "accepted" and that would stop it from disappearing until you run it. This "tagging" would be possible from in game, or the app or the official website, so people at work or on schedules that fall even outside of these generous windows still wouldn't miss out.)
Once a Wolf Assassination Alert has been unlocked, a new Nightwave Alert chain can open, letting people choose to go after the wolf, or ignore him. This would open up targeted farming of the Wolf and his sledge weapon parts drops.

* Nightwave Alerts would always contain Fugitives (or the series' currently theme'd enemy)
* Non-nightwave missions would never contain Fugitives or the Wolf.

This would let people gear up for the battles specifically, or put on low stuff to rank up, making the best use of their affinity gaining time, rather than having max weapons on hand "Just in case" the big bad Wolf shows up to ruin their day.

Nightwave Alerts would reward Wave-Cred. (not Event-styled ranks - prices in the shop would have to be rebalanced or give the shop a stock that limits purchases during each "series" and "re-stocks" when the event would have previously reset to a new series.)

Wave Cred would not expire. (steady progression at your own pace, even if RNG doesn't favor you with the above alert changes. This only really makes the "Series" restocked items obtainable day-one of each series, with evergreen rewards being the primary cred-sink.)

Nightwave Shop would not rotate. (no snooze you lose, not having enough credits when the item is in the shop and not returning before the event ends, wiping out your creds that you were saving just to get that thing. All items in the shop would be available all the time (though some would have limited supply, resetting as stated above))

One forgotten benefit of Alerts lost with Nightwave: Alerts used to be a way to find a quick PUG all doing the same nodes. That's only really the home of Invasions now. (I only ever really PUG'd for reactors/catalysts in Interception or Archwing missions, but others PUG all day...) If they push the Stalker mode syndicate into the game, they're going to want people PUG'ing so there are opt-in parties to invade...

 

There ya go, Alert system fixed, Nightwave system fixe... better.

Most current Nightwave "Challenges" would be moved to the master of sadisti... condescendi... demandi... um... Challenges... Cephalon Simaris studying the limits of Tenno prowess, and the Arbitrary Arbiters in their Arbitrations that just scream to be the handers-out of obscure ordeals and self-righteously judging the efforts of the Tenno and their merit of reward.

~*~

Still considering how to work in the Nightwave standing reward ladder. It's so much more "event-like" rather than "core game system", that it's difficult.

I'd rather not see the tiers locked behind Wolf kills. The "Nightwave Alerts" could provide standing as well as cred.

 

I'll keep thinking about it, and post/edit at some point. It's late (after midnight now (as of the time of writing this in the original post).)

Edited April 13, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra
Design goal of rank 30 at the start. I could go dig up the quotes and clips from Dev streams, but, nah.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

 

 

1

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

No, he doesn't. Just suffered him on hydron a few hours ago and he didn't go. Either if it's a bug or intended, IDK, but he doesn't escape after everyone is downed. Reason why most people will leave the game when he spawns.

He did with me, as soon as he killed me once, him and his 3 fugitive buddies left. I'd say someone got revived before everyone died, or Everyone wasn't dead at the same time.

[DatDarkOne]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

No, he doesn't. Just suffered him on hydron a few hours ago and he didn't go. Either if it's a bug or intended, IDK, but he doesn't escape after everyone is downed. Reason why most people will leave the game when he spawns.

How the hell did he beat every one on Hydron.  I just fought him yesterday and I saw just how nerfed he was compared to the other 7-9 times I've faced him.  it was just me playing a freshly forma'd Garuda using the Hema and one other player using Volt.  

Edited April 13, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

How the hell did he beat every one on Hydron.  I just fought him yesterday and I saw just how nerfed he was compared to the other 7-9 times I've faced him.  

Console hasn’t gotten the nerf yet- just wanted to put that in there.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

How the hell did he beat every one on Hydron.  I just fought him yesterday and I saw just how nerfed he was compared to the other 7-9 times I've faced him.  

On console we are behind pc players in terms of updates. Right now, he's as tanky as the first day for us.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

Console hasn’t gotten the nerf yet- just wanted to put that in there.

 

Just now, (NSW)Belaptir said:

On console we are behind pc players in terms of updates. Right now, he's as tanky as the first day for us.

Then it seems that the problem has been resolved already and you guys will see the benefits on the next update.   There really isn't a need to continue this anymore now is it.  

[(NSW)Belaptir]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

Then it seems that the problem has been resolved already and you guys will see the benefits on the next update.   There really isn't a need to continue this anymore now is it.  

Let's hope we get that nerf in the next update (we won't get the last 24.7.1 but something around 24.6 iirc). It's good to know that, contrary to many people's beliefs, they are paying attention to this thread.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

Then it seems that the problem has been resolved already and you guys will see the benefits on the next update.   There really isn't a need to continue this anymore now is it.  

I wasn’t continuing anything, I just wanted to put that in there lol.

 He’s ok for me to deal with, when he comes out. I’m more worried about getting his last piece (ignoring the mask for now of course).