Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[DeltaPangaea]

ONE MORE THING.

Can we have a goddamn week counter so we know how much longer is left in this damn thing?

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

12 hours ago, shieldb said:

Yeah, I was guessing it'd be in the neighborhood of 50 credits each time as well, but 15 per rank is better than what we've been getting the entire time anyways. There's been plenty of posts advocating for less wolf creds awarded more frequently to smooth out the payouts for folks taking longer to get through the ranks, etc.

Ranks 1 - 30: 300 creds total, awarded in batches of 50 at ranks 3,6,12,16,20,24 (Average of 10 creds per rank)

Ranks 31+: X creds total, 15 per rank (50% increase)

Of course that's entirely separate from discussing whether the cost of things could use some adjustment 🙂

Yeah if you hit prestige rank 30 you'll get 450. But I think most who prestige will probably only make to around rank 10-15. if it was 15's with 50's at the same points as the first 30 ranks, I'd be happy. or even 25 per rank.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

9 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

This would be more in-line with what I thought.  Maybe a bit less, but rewards all the same.  Putting this into perspective, each prisoner is worth 50 points.  If a potato is worth 50,000 points, that's 1000 captures.  You'd need a minimum of 334 groups of three.  If a spawn occurs on average every 3 missions (I may be generous here), you've got to run 1,000 missions to get a potato.  If missions are on average 5 minutes, that's 5,000 minutes or 83.34 hours.  Is a potato worth 3.5 days of grinding?

Wait. Can you not do the Night Wave tasks once you prestige? I thought you could still do the weeklies and dailies.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

9 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Honestly I think the big flaw of Nightwave is having to get ALL the rewards to get to the end. Like if you don't care about certain things, you can choose to ignore them. Like if, for example, you picked a 'Major Reward' you wanted to gun towards. There'd be little incidental rewards along the way like cred or whatever, but you've picked a thing to aim towards and you'll get THAT one first.

Maybe how you could work it is that you've got X number of Major Rewards, and you can pick one of them to work towards. Above the Major Rewards are the Grand Rewards, stuff like the umbra forma or the armor bits. Once you've gotten to a Major Reward, you can pick to work towards a Grand Reward, but once you've gotten that Grand Reward, you need to get another Major to get back up to the top of the 'tree' so to speak.

Then people can work towards the rewards they WANT. Getting all of it would still require the same effort as now, but if they don't have the time they can still decide what they want the most.

You literally can just work towards the reward you want. You know what ranks they are and you can just aim for that rank.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

5 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Aside from Ayatan hunting, I think this infuriates me more than anything else about NW.

At least they gave those of us on console a gift of the lotus to balance out with PC on this.
You can quickly hunt Ayatan's on Mariana on earth with Limbo. Some people can do each run in 2 or 3 minutes getting 3-5 Ayatans in half an hour. I'm a bit slower and usually do each run in about 5-6 minutes. Some players seem to get an Ayatan every 2-3 runs, I seem to get one every 5 or 6.
 

[(PSN)Nek_Food]

15 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

5) Make sure the stuff called out in the Nightwave works.  I tried 4 times yesterday to complete the Sortie's first mission.  In all three of the first attempts a door would not open.  No alarms, door was green, but would not open.  It's the second time in two weeks, though previously an abort and restart did the trick on a random run. 

About that problem you are having... I found out that sometimes (don't really know why or when), the game fails to recognize your warframe in the map, strange but happens.

When that happens, doors are not opening, you cannot open any cashes or lockers, enemies don't really know you are there even if you are shooting at them and even killing them, friends/other players in the squad don't see you next to them or in their map and at the end of the mission you cannot "leave" after you reach the extraction as if you are not really there at all.

I found out that the only way for me to "bypass" all those issues is to switch to my operator form, when I'm doing that, the game suddenly realizes the existence of player X (me) and doors are opening - extraction works, etc. If I then switch back to my warframe, the issues are still there, so I have to use the operator to end the mission. Not a really solution but as I said a moment's bypass to the said problem.

Sorry about my off topic answer... 🙂

Edited April 9, 2019 by (PS4)Nek_Food

[justin0620]

On 2019-04-08 at 2:02 PM, (NSW)NeonNebula said:

Honestly DE, what’s the use of this feedback thread if you’re not going to listen to the feedback? 

I think this week is pretty easy compare to previous weeks. they might be listening.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Nek_Food said:

About that problem you are having... I found out that sometimes (don't really know why or when), the game fails to recognize your warframe in the map, strange but happens.

When that happens, doors are not opening, you cannot open any cashes or lockers, enemies don't really know you are there even if you are shooting at them and even killing them, friends/other players in the squad don't see you next to them or in their map and at the end of the mission you cannot "leave" after you reach the extraction as if you are not really there at all.

I found out that the only way for me to "bypass" all those issues is to switch to my operator form, when I'm doing that, the game suddenly realizes the existence of player X (me) and doors are opening - extraction works, etc. If I then switch back to my warframe, the issues are still there, so I have to use the operator to end the mission. Not a really solution but as I said a moment's bypass to the said problem.

Sorry about my off topic answer... 🙂

I have found that door issue to be a host connection issue. The times it has happened to me the host is insanely laggy.

[M4T2E]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

I have found that door issue to be a host connection issue. The times it has happened to me the host is insanely laggy.

Sometimes it's host related especially when you also recognize a delay while opening cashes, pick up loot and such things.

But there is definitly a problem with closed green doors too!
There are many new reports about green doors that won't open and I also had issues with bugged green doors in solo mode since the last few updates.

[(NSW)Joewoof]

Instead of being completely random, what if we can choose from 3 Challenges for Dailies?

[Laestic]

Hello,

here is a feedback on Nitain Extracts as an item from the Creds shop (and for the record I don't lack nitains.)

Case

It is the unique case of a ressource needed for many Foundry items and Research, something a player may not assess during early play. Nitain usage is obfuscated to new players : it looks like a ressource like many others, with the specific, obscur caveat that is only availble by one and only one mean, the Cred Shop. 

Before Nightwaves, there were Alertes, and some rewards were Nitain. So a player could do alerts, and sometimes get Nitain, with or without planning for Nitain specifically, in his time and will. It was straightforward : alert -> Nitain, and there was nothing more. That player could so unknowingly gain Nitain for later use, or check his Nitain count, how many he needed at the time or later, and play his own way.

 

Consequence

Now, one has to plan, and fairly early on, to save tokens for Nitain. You have to figure now if you need some in the future. Worse : those cosmetics in the shop ? they cost 35 token, and some of them require Nitain, so they cost MORE tokens, likely 50 (even if they don't require 5 nitain). There are currently 300 Wolf tokens to get as tier rewards (not counting Prestige). A new player, or an unaware one, may spend much in Catalysts and Reactors, and then miss the opportunity to grab Nitain. 

New players may be lost or confused with this situation, even stalling in their progression. I feel this is very wrong as a gaming experience.

 

Idea/suggestion

Arbitrations mechanism offers a rare ressource (Virtus) for a challenge. Nitain could go the same treatment : a dedicated mission type, with adjusted difficulty and frequency, and some unique tricks?

 

TL;DR : ressource required for many items and only available in Cred Shop is bad. Make it available another way.

Thanks for reading.

-- Laestic

Edited April 9, 2019 by Laestic
Typos + clarifications

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You literally can just work towards the reward you want. You know what ranks they are and you can just aim for that rank.

And boy does it feel like work. People are calling this Chore Wave for a reason.

2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I seem to get one every 5 or 6.

My experience too.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

3 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

And boy does it feel like work. People are calling this Chore Wave for a reason.

 

Yeah, because they are lazy and want every now without doing anything to earn it.

[master_of_destiny]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Nek_Food said:

About that problem you are having... I found out that sometimes (don't really know why or when), the game fails to recognize your warframe in the map, strange but happens.

When that happens, doors are not opening, you cannot open any cashes or lockers, enemies don't really know you are there even if you are shooting at them and even killing them, friends/other players in the squad don't see you next to them or in their map and at the end of the mission you cannot "leave" after you reach the extraction as if you are not really there at all.

I found out that the only way for me to "bypass" all those issues is to switch to my operator form, when I'm doing that, the game suddenly realizes the existence of player X (me) and doors are opening - extraction works, etc. If I then switch back to my warframe, the issues are still there, so I have to use the operator to end the mission. Not a really solution but as I said a moment's bypass to the said problem.

Sorry about my off topic answer... 🙂

You're right, pertaining to laggy situations.

 

The problem is, I did this multiple times, and had 4 players all stuck there.  This appears to be a bug with mobile defenses and sabatoges.  It's happened on both Grineer and Corpus tile sets.  The operator thing used to work, but even now sometimes I get black screened and restarted elsewhere on levels without going out of bounds.  If I were to conjecture, this is DE's pathing and location detection occasionally bugging out and not identifying appropriate door openings (but that's a huge guess).

 

Thank you for the suggestion.  I wish I hadn't already tried it.

[TheFBD]

7 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Can we have a goddamn week counter so we know how much longer is left in this damn thing?

Yeah that would be really helpful. The only way to figure that out right now is counting yourself or checking reddit/twitter.

OTOH if DE would put in a week counter showing that there are only 3 weeks left, lots and lots of players who came back to warframe recently (for equinox prime maybe), would easily see that they literally have no chance to reach any higher rank anymore and bail out immediately. I assume that's why that won't happen.

Edited April 9, 2019 by TheFBD

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

The use 3 forma I feel is less irritating due to the ease of acquiring it, I just don't like using it without any real good reason & i dont want to build, level to 30 then forma junk weapons for the sake of the achievement.

Thats for a very select group of course, but if your new? your using forma on garbage most of the time, vendor trash & grind to level then re level what few weapons, frames & such.

It's an irritation at worst, a fun time murder spree speed bump essentially.

I didnt mind it because I just happened to start Parasesis leveling a day or so prior, problem is one irritation stacked on others like the sculptures thing makes it just a little worse since misery loves company.

But I have to agree, this weeks challenges feel alot less goofy, I actually looked at it & said for the first time, I could stand to do all of these this week, nothing really repulsed me, except the sculptures prior to the Alert they tossed us, which GJ DE! I dont care & wouldve just not bothered with it, but y'all went that extra nanometer & gave us a little Hydrogen peroxide for our butthurt.

May come accross as sarcasm but its not, it really is just that A tiny effort for a tiny pain, but a good step nevertheless.

[CloakofShadows]

I don't know if this has been addressed yet but can we see how long we have before the new nightwave hits? I know if we complete all the challenges then we're more than likely to get all the rewards but some players don't have that time to grind it all out. Knowing how much time we have left before the Wolf of Saturn Six Nightwave rewards are gone would give players a better time frame to pace out the grind.

[(PSN)MildObstruction]

I'm sure this has all been said 100 times already but here's my feedback:

- 10 weeks is too long, especially with a new thing you can't course correct in the middle of.  I think it'd be fine to have it be 5 weeks with a break in between.  

- Have challenges all available at once.  I know some people will chew through all of it in a couple days or less but they're the same people who do all of it on Sunday night anyways.

- Use the weekly reset for a lore cutscene for the story or something.  Maybe even start a week long alert that's an instanced mission with a guaranteed visit from whatever enemy is featured in the story.

- the credit shop is weird but would work fine if every challenge rewarded a bit of nightwave credit instead of it being a tier award

- the challenges and ratio needed to get all of the rewards seems pretty fair for pretty active players.  

[Yousho]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Yeah, because they are lazy and want every now without doing anything to earn it.

A silly statement. Most people don't play games to do work, sure, you should be rewarded for your effort, but your effort should be *fun*. 
Chorewave is uninteresting, restrictive garbage. 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

I’ve posted multiple times before but gunna do it again (at work, limited break so forgive any errors).

1. I’d still like a preview list of what’s to come before new/recycled NW challenges. I can’t tell you how many times I’ll be paralyzed and won’t do sorties/fill my Ayatans on a Sunday because it ended up being on the rotation. I like to be prepared!

2. Less of the 5 sortie ones, please. I don’t actually mind them, but I’m the type of person who enjoys doing the challenges ASAP.

3. For the 9 invasion ones.. maybe add some different resources? I’m probably going to skip this one (first time skipping any challenge) simply because I don’t need a weapon part/mutagen/etc. It’s just not worth it. For resources maybe something like x amount of tellurium or whatever. Doesn’t have to be potatoes.

4. More appropriate lines for Nora? I love her, but I really don’t wanna hear that I’m a “future bad. Ass.” Because I socketed my ayatans lol.

All I can think of. Still feels like a chore and gives me anxiety, even if I know I don’t HAVE to do the challenges (and I don’t), but in a sense if I see it unfinished I have to do it. 

 Other than that (and the Wolf spawn rate.. don’t get me started there) NW isn’t horrible just.. needs some balancing.

[VirtualViolet]

Suggestion: Have Nora sell a Wolf beacon (like the G3/Zanuka Hunter/Stalker beacons from Baro) during the last week of the Nightwave season so we can get some last minute farming in (for those of us who haven't been blessed by RNGsus) and use up our excess (wolf) credits.

Edited April 10, 2019 by VirtualViolet

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

I wish I could take this level of selective understanding, and apply it to everything in life.  The slowing down comment was that you seem to selectively choose interpretations of other comments and argue against a straw man.

Yes that's pretty much what you've been doing about the nightwave system. You might not think so but claiming that "spend 6 forma, and gain 6 forma" doesn't work out to no net loss, its pretty easy to see that it's what you are doing. 

 

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Definition of reward:

a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement.

That's nice. It's also what seems to be happening in Nightwave. Best of all they're rewarding us for doing pretty much what we'd be doing anyway. Which is nice of them. 

Quote

The "Rewards" for completing a Nightwave, or 10,000 accumulated points, is something which is required to earn 3,000 points.  The math is simple.  If you don't like the numbers, I'd suggest you talk to DE.

Or for completing 300k in 10 weeks. It's nice to take the long view sometimes. It's like you trying to calculate the standing gain from a single challenge as part of gaining a level. Your spurious math is no more valid than saying that 6k < 270k and that 263k standing is spent in the effort to get those 6 forma. 

 

The fact is that we spent 6 forma. We probably benefitted directly from doing so. The system rewards us by giving us 6 forma amongst the many other rewards we get for participating. We can reasonably expect to receive either forma bps or items that can be easily be converted to plat and into forma from other challenges that we also did. Several of the others can be completed while levelling up the gear that we just put forma into. 

The fact is that many of us would have been doing similar tasks for our own advancement in the game anyway. And neither of us were likely to be aiming specifically for the forma bundles, the potato, or the kuva, were we? 

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You're confusing the corresponding inclusion of a parallel challenge, whose summed point award would offer 8,000 points, to be a "reward."  Being clear, you earn 10,000 points, DE rewards you with 3 forma, and the next thing you can earn uses that reward to refund you 4/5 of the value in point assuming that you also complete another challenge.  This may be fun for you, but patently is not a reward.  It's rather easy to confuse a reward with artificially elongating process via a convoluted exchange of resources without tangible cost.

No I'm pointing out that "as a whole the system has asked you to spend 6 forma and rewarded you with 6 forma". No net loss there. 

Additionally, we also collect numerous other rewards, for completing tasks. Opening 10 relics always awards you 10 prizes. Maybe we don't always want those, but your attempt to discount them is highly disingenuous. By assigning synergistic challenges they allow us to choose a far more efficient path, and maximise our ability to complete the challenges with minimal effort. 

At the end that "convoluted exchange of resources with no tangible cost", resulted in moving me closer to tier 30, left me with better gear, resulted in us doing things that provided us with additional rewards, on top of the rewards we am getting for participating and completing the challenges. 

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Let me put this into a parallel example.  You walk into a coffee shop, and buy a coffee (time for money, money for coffee).  On the receipt is a coupon which will give you a free coffee with purchase of another, but only at one location.  The drive to the other location is an increase from 5 minutes to 9 minutes.  So, for a 50% reward you spend an additional 80% time driving.  As long as you don't value your time the thing is a reward.  I prefer being able to choose what I do, rather than wait for an ideal mission type and being forced to mold my day around their random occurrence and length.  Again, I see the value here only when your time is not finite and you don't hold value in grind.  I like living, and if we allow this then it'll happen again later.

Fascinating, but again this has nothing at all to do with Nightwave. 

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Finally, math.  It always seems like when you include numbers people tune out, but feels matter.  Being real here, go play Anthem.  This is where these Nightwaves are headed, and anyone able to see the pattern should be raising the flag immediately.  Humans are inherently stupid, and not built for numbers.  When we see 10% chances, we think it'll only take 10 items to get a reward. 

Again you see a glass that is half full, and are insisting that everyone should refer to it as half empty. You are unhappy because you got 3 forma only after spending 3 forma. I don't see it as a problem that I got a bunch of forma that I would have spent anyway back, and then some. I don't even have any problem with the fact that I'd spent some forma last week, because I am getting something for free, just for doing exactly what I would have done anyway. 

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If you'd like to quantify this, answer me how many relics were rewarded to us for the faction challenge weekends...I'll wait....yep, 10.  With 10 relics fully radiant you've got 35% of the player base not getting the one rare required to complete the set.  If you don't grind for traces, that 35% is much higher.  To be clear, 99% of people will get a 10% drop after 43 runs.

Again, you are trying to shoehorn the challenge into an amazingly specific situation. Yes you got 10 free relics. You also probably got quite a lot of syndicate points over the last few weeks that translate into relic packs. You probably also got quite a few radiant relics from the ESO challenges. You also probably got a whole buttload of relics during the vast majority of the missions that you ran for the event to date. 

So while I applaud you for finding a way to make the challenge even more efficient for you, I'm also aware that players are not required to try and do what you are trying to do. There is no reason why anyone should restrict themselves to only specific relics, especially now when every Prime part is increasing in potential worth to buyers by the day. 

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Congratulations.  You win this argument and 100 extra internet points.  Apparently by defining your time as useless, and that "I'd eventually do it anyways," there's no reason to ask for better.  Logically then, stop eating.  You'll eventually die, so you might as well get that over with.  Additionally, eventually Warframe will reach EOL so stop playing it.  Alternatively, when you see a time-sink, provide the feedback that it's been detected and we don't appreciate it.  DE can do better.  If they wanted progression to be built into the system they'd be better off asking for something like crack 10 relics, and the progression would be craft 5 items.  We'd keep the forma, and they'd subtly encourage building a new prime weapon and providing the forma to make it better.  When a reward is used immediately thereafter it's not leading people, but herding them.  Consider me thinking more highly of myself than a cow.

Seriously, take a look at the ridiculous argument that you have to resort to to bolster your CASE. "The universe will one day go into heat death, so you don't have to do the things that you were planning on doing, which apparently we're going to be given extra rewards for doing"? That made sense to you? 

As to suggesting that "open 10 relics" should be paired with "build 5 things" I refer you to the math that you presented earlier to show that the vast majority of people won't get a single full set from 10 relics. So I'm not sure that you thought that through, because if you were presented with that same challenge, you would have the exact same complaint, and it might even be a valid one under those circumstances. 

 

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Right now, dailies are just "kill x number of enemies in this specific way."  Weeklies are largely 2-3 time locks and high level content.  That's fundamentally misunderstanding the opportunity to subtly communicate progress to new players.  Veterans know all of this, but we're largely at the back of the bus anyways, waiting for the one or two genuinely new things.  I'd prefer if DE took this opportunity to make more veterans, rather than patronizing us with non-rewarding rewards.

Take a moment to realise that what you claim you'd is in contradiction to what you are saying. Newbs may only be able to complete those dailies. They will gain over 10 weeks enough points to buy some of the rewards from the credit store. Many of the regular weeklies have what I'd call soft locks. A newb might be unable to gain enough standing to get themselves the bait for fishing in time for the challenge, but many of us have the bait, and can take them with us, that's something we as vets can do to help the newbs. I burned through 5 apothics during the week of that challenge, because there were people who just weren't going to be able to find the plants in time coming down to the end and even took some looking for plants to complete some of the apothics I used. 

The very rewards that you complain about as "non-rewarding" are all things that newbs can be excited about. I heard an MR6 and 8 talking about the rewards that they'd gotten and what was coming up next and let me tell you, they couldn't have sounded happier about some free slots and cosmetics. Both of them ended up getting a few free mods, and taken on a farming run where they did their first 40 minute survivals. 

So yeah, those rewards that you turn your nose up at? There are newbs who think that they're the best thing they've ever gotten.... Mainly because they're the best thing that they've ever gotten. 

 

[TheFinalEpic]

Alerts was great for just going in and out with quick missions, it was great for new, casual and veterans  alike, it actually brought people together. However there are stuff on alerts that people just couldn't get without being on 24/7. Nightwave was SPECIFICALLY STATED to fix this.

 

Nightwave is great for getting the stuff you want, you see the goal, you work toward it. However it's set up it basically "forces you" to play the game and nobody likes this and is likely the reason why many have stated whatever is after the first nightwave, they won't do it. they don't care.

 

 

Here's a new system best of both worlds:

 

Alerts would come back and instead of giving random prizes, it would give credits/standing for whatever the current nightwave is. After the end of each current nightwave, the credits/standing reset for the next one. The next set of alerts will give whatever the new credit/standing is.

 

 

It has the best of both systems, the value of just going in and out of quick missions and also getting whatever you want to spend your credits on. You will have a goal to work toward and you don't feel forced to play.

 

(though tbh, DE has been very malicious of late of forcing us to play the game so they might not like this idea even though it is the best of both worlds)

 

What you guys think?

Edited April 10, 2019 by TheFinalEpic

[Redfeather75]

It was the spontaneity of alerts and randomized tileset layouts that kept me playing warframe.

[TheFinalEpic]

Just now, Redfeather75 said:

It was the spontaneity of alerts and randomized tileset layouts that kept me playing warframe.

Yeah and my suggestion would fit perfect for you 🙂