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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback


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On 2019-04-17 at 6:12 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Flase. 

Every alert came with conditions that needed to be met to earn the reward. Every event required some level of participation to earn those goodies. 

Please stop claiming otherwise. It's pretty ridiculous. 

I claim "false" on your "false". Old alert system rewards repeated. You missed one? Well it WILL cycle. It may have been annoying to not get it the first time around, but besides some statistical outliers (that I just KNOW you will cite because you just cannot resist the urge to be "that guy", can you?), most people eventually got the limited items offered by alerts.

Not the same with uniques. It is now "get them while the getting is good"

I really would avoid running that fast with your high horse. While technically your claim is correct,functionally you are wrong, because his original statement is "you can do it at your own pace and still get the stuff". And that IS absolutely correct.

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19 minutes ago, random__noob said:

I claim "false" on your "false". Rewards repeated. You missed one? Well it WILL cycle. It may have been annoying to not get it the first time around, but besides some statistical outliers (that I just KNOW you will cite because you just cannot resist the urge to be "that guy", can you?), most people eventually got the limited items offered by alerts.

Not the same with uniques. It is now "get them while the getting is good"

And I reject your claim as in it you acknowledge that you earned no rewards for the ones that you did not participate in, depending instead on "it will turn up again in the future".

Regarding the "uniques", do you mean excal prime and the founders package? 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Try checking voter turnout as a fraction of registered voters. Plato and Aristotle both remarked on democracy as a corrupt form of government, as it favours whomsoever shouts the loudest. 

And that'll probably be borne out by your youtu.be example. The number of viewers will usually vastly exceed the number of likes and dislikes. The probable reason, because most people dgaf. They're not discontent, and don't enjoy the content enough to rate the effort of giving a thumbs up. They are apathetic at worst and content at best. 

DE's stats will show how many people attempted and succeeded with each challenge. That's a great metric of how many people were willing to give it a shot and how many actually found it unpleasant enough to simply avoid. Neat huh? 

And I think that your memory of the way feedback was, doesn't quite mesh with reality. But you're right, nobody need berate people for having or expressing an opinion, that's why some of us are disagreeing rationally based on the facts and figures, regardless of how many times some people attack us or try to suggest that we stop commenting. Not that someone like you would ever try to suggest that others who disagree with you not comment, right? 

 

As far as Plato and Aristotle go, while they're not wrong, I defy you to find a form of government that isn't corrupt, we work with what we have.

As for there are more viewers that don't interact at all rather than like or dislike or post, sure, but that wasn't at all the point, you said that feedback (that thing that happens when someone is not apathetic enough to actually communicate) will be in general always be more negative than positive, and I said there's no evidence for that, and one of the biggest things we could attempt to figure out the logic of that statement seems to favor the opposite.

As to your statement of challenge completion being a metric of reception: No, that's ridiculous, plenty of people will accidentally complete challenges without specifically attempting to, for one, and plenty of others will dislike it but do it for the rewards, this provides very little insight into the playerbases opinion on the system.

And as for the last statement, I know you're attempting to turn my argument back upon me, but as has been proven time and again, you lack reading comprehension, I've never said you shouldn't post or comment, go reread my statements, I've said, over and over since the beginning, expressing your opinion on a topic is what we're here for, I've said it over and over, here are some examples that may illustrate my opinion on what is helpful here:

I like the nightwave system, it's perfect for me as it is. -- Good!
I don't like the nightwave system, I'd change these things about it, or get rid of it entirely. --Equally Good!
I disagree with the guy above me, I like the way these things are, they are enjoyable because of x reason. --Still fine
The guy above me is wrong and shouldn't feel the way he does, he's whiny and his opinions don't matter. -- This is you, and this is not helpful.
 

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1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

As far as Plato and Aristotle go, while they're not wrong, I defy you to find a form of government that isn't corrupt, we work with what we have.

Not a corrupt government, a corrupt "form" of government. Aristotle proposed a constitutional Republic as a "true" government as a contrast to democracy. 

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

As for there are more viewers that don't interact at all rather than like or dislike or post, sure, but that wasn't at all the point, you said that feedback (that thing that happens when someone is not apathetic enough to actually communicate) will be in general always be more negative than positive, and I said there's no evidence for that, and one of the biggest things we could attempt to figure out the logic of that statement seems to favor the opposite.

No. You need to go back and read what you quoted again. If I said that many people who are content are nonvocal in their own contentedness, saying "look at this example of people giving positive feedback more often than negative feedback" doesn't actually address what I said in any way. It would, if likes were almost as great as views for the majority of the videos, but that's just not the case. 

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

As to your statement of challenge completion being a metric of reception: No, that's ridiculous, plenty of people will accidentally complete challenges without specifically attempting to, for one, and plenty of others will dislike it but do it for the rewards, this provides very little insight into the playerbases opinion on the system.

Any challenges that you "accidentally complete" are obviously ones that you were going to have completed regardless. And if you dislike but are willing to do the challenge, then it's pretty obvious that you were definitely willing and able to complete it. Any challenge that I was unwilling to complete, I didn't do. The hunting comes to mind because I don't like "match the sound" challenges and go out of my way to not do them. The same applies to the ones I was unable to, like the first ayatan statue one, as I just didn't have the empty statues and wasn't going to buy any. DE will be able to see how many people weren't willing and able to get the challenges done. 

 

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

And as for the last statement, I know you're attempting to turn my argument back upon me, but as has been proven time and again, you lack reading comprehension, I've never said you shouldn't post or comment, go reread my statements, I've said, over and over since the beginning, expressing your opinion on a topic is what we're here for, I've said it over and over, here are some examples that may illustrate my opinion on what is helpful here:

You're going to need to make up your mind, it's either I'm trying to turn your own argument against you, or you didn't make the argument. It can't be both. 😉

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

I like the nightwave system, it's perfect for me as it is. -- Good!
I don't like the nightwave system, I'd change these things about it, or get rid of it entirely. --Equally Good!
I disagree with the guy above me, I like the way these things are, they are enjoyable because of x reason. --Still fine
The guy above me is wrong and shouldn't feel the way he does, he's whiny and his opinions don't matter. -- This is you, and this is not helpful.

No the first 3 are fine. 

But your fourth is a bald faced attempt at a strawman attack on someone who is disagreeing with you. 

Let me propose a different version of 3 and 4, and hopefully a 5 that will make it a bit clearer. 

I disagree with the guy above me, I hate the way these things are, they are bad. I hate them for x reason. --Still fine, 

The guy above me is wrong because x is based on something that is obviously false, here's the math/facts that shows that it's wrong. So if that's why they are claiming to hate it, something is wrong with what they're claiming. --Still fine

REEEEEEEE WTFBBQLMAO you can't tell us how to feel, stop trying to berate people who are only bashing the game, that's why this thread is for, not for disagreeing with people and using maths. -- Not fine. Not helpful. Not me. 

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not a corrupt government, a corrupt "form" of government. Aristotle proposed a constitutional Republic as a "true" government as a contrast to democracy.

Again, reading comprehension, I said "form of government that is not corrupt" constitutional republics are no less corrupt because (among other reasons) representatives often do not actually represent the interests of the people they are supposed to represent, they represent their own to the detriment of those they're supposed to represent, or are paid to represent someone else's interests, all of which is irrelevant, because none of that is what this feedback thread is, it's more a town hall meeting if anything where residents speak their peace to the ones in charge.

14 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No. You need to go back and read what you quoted again. If I said that many people who are content are nonvocal in their own contentedness, saying "look at this example of people giving positive feedback more often than negative feedback" doesn't actually address what I said in any way. It would, if likes were almost as great as views for the majority of the videos, but that's just not the case.

That's not at all true, you were trying to make the case that while the comments seemed to be mostly negative, that this doesn't necessarily represent actual sentiment in total, by saying that "the ones who dislike a thing tend to be more vocal/communicative than ones who like a thing, on average", and I said that this is often said, but I fail to see it backed up with any data, the only time I've seen data attempting to make any claim over this, seemed to conclude the opposite.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Any challenges that you "accidentally complete" are obviously ones that you were going to have completed regardless. And if you dislike but are willing to do the challenge, then it's pretty obvious that you were definitely willing and able to complete it. Any challenge that I was unwilling to complete, I didn't do. The hunting comes to mind because I don't like "match the sound" challenges and go out of my way to not do them. The same applies to the ones I was unable to, like the first ayatan statue one, as I just didn't have the empty statues and wasn't going to buy any. DE will be able to see how many people weren't willing and able to get the challenges done. 

Just because you complete something in no way implies you like the system, even if people are willing to do it. If somehow a system was put into place that everyone who slapped themself in the face earned 20$, would the number of participants who slapped themself in the face prove they liked slapping themself in the face, or that people wanted 20$?
 

23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're going to need to make up your mind, it's either I'm trying to turn your own argument against you, or you didn't make the argument. It can't be both. 😉

It isn't that confusing, I'm making the argument that you're trying to invalidate other people's opinions, for example: "I don't like this because it feels like this.", and this is ridiculous, and you're somehow trying to state that this is the same as me trying to invalidate your opinion, it's not, as I keep saying, nothing wrong with expressing your opinion, and I bear no ill will towards you for voicing that, but it's insane to think that just because you like it, everyone else is wrong if they don't.

I'm not saying all your statements are like this, but enough of them are to point it out, there's nothing wrong with arguing facts with facts, but that isn't what you're doing a large portion of the time.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

But your fourth is a bald faced attempt at a strawman attack on someone who is disagreeing with you. 

On 2019-04-01 at 2:04 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And again with the whole "I'm a victim being forced to do this"? Come on. You have the same choices as any of the rest of us.

On 2019-04-16 at 6:14 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You ever heard the phrase "you can please some of the people, all of the time; you can please all of the people, some of the time; but you can't please all of the people all of the time"? 

On 2019-04-02 at 11:18 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Mate, people have managed to complain about every single challenge.

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When i reached the lvl 30 of this Nightwave i was wondering till that point if it will give 50 creds every level... would be too much and i dont need that many Nintain (?)

For thoose who doesnt know, it gives 15 Wolf Cred every level after you reached the lvl30. So... i went back and check the credits we got during the first round of leveling and they are 6 of 50, so 300 Wolf Credits, "like" gaining 10 per level but NOT gaining 10 per level, 50 every certain ammount of levels. 

Well, that comes my point: one of the complains with the credits was "i used on that XXXX and the next week i got that skin i didnt know will come, and have to wait three levels to get more (wich should take no more than a week) but other times, even if you need only 5 Wolf Credits, you might have to wait two weeks (in the levels were the creds have five or six levels in between) to get the 5 creds you were missing. 

My sugestion: next Nightwave (if it keeps that name) give Creds every level with the awards we already got and add six other prices for the slots where credits were. Im not even asking GREAT awards for thoose slots, in fact, i dont care. Just give 10 Wolf Credits (probably wont be "Wolf" but whatever) and, in the end, you have delivered the same ammount but avoiding thoose moments where you wont gain a single credit for one or two weeks, weeks in what you cant buy ANYTHING unless you already have all the skins or were managing the credits. 

Nothing too crazy, i hope the next Nightwave have it in this way or something similar to avoid those holes when looking for XXXX Creds. 

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1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

Again, reading comprehension, I said "form of government that is not corrupt" constitutional republics are no less corrupt because (among other reasons) representatives often do not actually represent the interests of the people they are supposed to represent, they represent their own to the detriment of those they're supposed to represent, or are paid to represent someone else's interests, all of which is irrelevant, because none of that is what this feedback thread is, it's more a town hall meeting if anything where residents speak their peace to the ones in charge.

I'll let you go ahead and read what he said, so you can figure out why a constitutional Republic which has representatives that don't represent the citizens would be an oligarchy, which is another corrupt form of government. 

Also nobody was trying to compare this to either. You said that you've never seen statistics to suggest that the content are often nonvocal in their contentedness. I gave it as an example that would show you the figures you have never seen. Reading comprehension is a thing. 

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

Just because you complete something in no way implies you like the system, even if people are willing to do it. If somehow a system was put into place that everyone who slapped themself in the face earned 20$, would the number of participants who slapped themself in the face prove they liked slapping themself in the face, or that people wanted 20$?

Do you know what people do when they really don't want to do something that they're not actually being forced to do? They don't do it. If you don't want to hit yourself in the face, you don't. If you don't want to hit yourself in the face for $20, you don't. If on the other hand you are willing and able to hit yourself in the face in order to get $20, you might. Keeping track of how many people tried, and completed the challenge would be a good metric of how many were both willing and able. If the number is significantly large compared to the general population, then you would be reasonably able to predict whether it will be well received by the majority of the population in the future. If the number is very small by comparison, then you can reasonably predict that it will not be well received. 

 

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

It isn't that confusing, I'm making the argument that you're trying to invalidate other people's opinions, for example: "I don't like this because it feels like this.", and this is ridiculous, and you're somehow trying to state that this is the same as me trying to invalidate your opinion, it's not, as I keep saying, nothing wrong with expressing your opinion, and I bear no ill will towards you for voicing that, but it's insane to think that just because you like it, everyone else is wrong if they don't

It isn't confusing at all. Just that you made contradicting claims one after another. Either one could be true but not both. 

And I'm not trying to invalidate opinions. Like others, I have pointed out that some people are trying to present opinions as facts, but when presented as such are blatantly false. A common example of this would be:

"I'm being forced to do something I don't want to do."

That's not the same as "I really don't want to do these challenges in order to get the rewards". That's an opinion and is perfectly fine mAt most I'd ask "well what sort of challenges would you like to see" if someone said this. But claims that we are forced to attempt any challenge that we don't want to do, are blatantly false. Furthermore, claims that we were never required to meet the conditions of the alerts/past events to get the rewards, are also blatantly false. Every single time we skipped an alert or didn't participate, we weren't given the rewards for completion. That's indisputable, but there are many who are falsely claiming otherwise. Repeatedly. 

 

As for your quotes, the first one was in response to your bald faced strawman attack on someone disagreeing with you. That is what you did. 

The second was in response to someone who apparently chose to do every challenge, and capture many fugitives, and repeatedly claimed that they were being "forced to do things". In that case ESO waves. It also happens to be the person who actually attacked another person who had positive things to say about nightwave, claiming that they were lying about their sleep schedule, and kept claiming that the victim was trying to promote unhealthy behaviour. We weren't ever forced to do all of the challenges. It's also a person who repeatedly refused to name even a single in-game activity that they enjoy doing when asked by multiple people. I suppose that you innocently missed all of that, it happens. But perhaps you can show that we were forced to participate against our will? Perhaps at gunpoint? Because if not, then the statement that we're not being forced to do anything, stands as true. 

The third was in response to someone who suggested that DE make "all of the challenges fun so we would want to get to tier 30 faster". It's not possible to please everyone all of the time as the quote says. People have demanded more hour long survivals, and others have demanded that those not happen anymore. The quote also preceded two paragraphs where I first explained why no challenge would make everyone happy, and the second where I explained why having us want to rush to 30, wouldn't actually be a good thing. The first paragraph contained the following: "We've had people who seem to actively dislike and avoid the vast majority of the game, one even repeatedly refused to name even a single in-game activity that they found enjoyable." I mention this because it directly relates to your last quote. That's not an attack on anyone based on the opinion that they're expressing, is it? 

The last quote is in response to someone repeatedly claiming to be "forced to do things" and demanding "AT LEAST 30 CHALLENGES" (capitals as in their suggestion) to choose between, so that they can tailor their choices to their own goals. It is a fragment of: "Mate, people have managed to complain about every single challenge. Even the dailies have had people demand to know why it's a thing to be rewarded for killing 150 enemies.

It was followed by: "The system already allows us to pick and choose from the available tasks each week. I've skipped quite a bit of stuff since the start. We need 30k standing out of a possible 43k a week. We can skip between 3 and 9 missions a week safely, if we choose wisely. 

If part of the purpose is to lure us out of our comfort zones, the mechanic you propose would negate that totally, wouldn't it?"

What part of that is me telling anyone that their opinion is invalid? 

 

Maybe instead of looking for things that you could possibly take offense to based on who said them, you could actually try to address the points that were made?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Maybe instead of looking for things that you could possibly take offense to based on who said them, you could actually try to address the points that were made

Maybe try getting off your high horse and realize that none of your responses are adding to a fruitful discourse? Seriously, you've been going on this thread with your faulty reasoning for pages on pages on pages, and the only person who believes you're making any sense is you.

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I have seen lots of great suggestions that would totally please everyone except that one guy, I won't name names...

1: Creds every level in smaller amounts. This could involve removing the larger cred bundles from the tier reward pool, or not. It could work fine either way, but personally I like the idea of having the per tier trickle and a few larger bundles of creds in the tier rewards.

2:  A max amount of standing per week, with a selection of tasks that is double or triple that amount in total. So no one feels they must do everything, because it wouldn't even be possible to. You choose the tasks that suit your preference. Then also, if you are locked out of some tasks, no big deal, you have other options and aren't locked out of the standing.

3: Players who fail to gain max standing in a given week will have increased max standing in the next week. So they have a 1 week window to make up for it by doing additional tasks (see point 2 above).

4: Event creds persist from one event to the next, or are converted to platinum at a suitable exchange rate.

5: Event spawns like the fugitives should be worth more standing so they don't feel like such a nuisance. This could be balanced by reducing their spawn rate. Also standing gained via such spawns should not count against max standing per week as outlined in point 2 above.

6: Event bosses should have better drop tables than the wolf does. He is such a pita to fight, and all too often, all for nothing.

7: Bring back alerts in an improved form to fill the gap for people who simply can not benefit from events requiring months long commitments. No reason that alerts can't live side by side with nightwave, more content is better than less content, and they increased the sense of a living universe and added to immersion.

8: Have tier rewards be player selected from the pool each tier (once received, rewards will be removed from the pool). I realize it sounds controversial but I think it would be great, and it would address the sense of this being a list of chores and just more senseless grind on top of a already grindy game.

The main argument against point 8 is that players will just take the umbral forma, and be done with it, and it will decrease the value and rarity of umbral forma. This is nonsense though. Almost all players who where here for this event, and wanted that umbral forma got it. If some players wanted it and failed to get it, then that is no fun for them, and they are probably a statistical outlier anyway. At the end of the day, this event basically gave everyone who wanted it umbral forma. Making it the last reward did not substantially effect its rarity. There being only a single umbral forma rewarded, that is what makes it rare, and that wouldn't change.

Players will continue to participate even after grabbing the best rewards that they most want, for the creds, nitain, potatoes, cosmetics, and other offerings, and they'll end up picking up the other rewards along the way too.

The only real effect point 8 would have, would be to take the pressure off, which would go a long ways towards making this seem less like lists of chores and more like a really fun and rewarding event that you can get as much out of as you want to, but don't feel you have to.

9: I have seen many other great ideas presented here too, and unfortunately someone has been working very hard to obscure them beneath piles of contrarian nonsense... Some of the points above have been presented by others within these many pages, so while I can't recall who first presented them, I'm not trying to take credit for them.

Edited by Arc5in
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6 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

You don't.  Show me a build that requires umbral forma to function well.

Sorry for insufficient word, please add "to get everything" in the end.

Yes, it would sound crazy, but it was how this game is, in my opinion. (or experience)

I won't really say anything if they made umbral forma plat purchasable.

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Just now, Test-995 said:

Sorry for not insufficient word, please add "to get everything" in the end.

Yes, it would sound crazy, but it was how this game is, in my opinion. (or experience)

I won't really say anything if they made umbral forma plat purchasable.

I recently got the freezing step ephemera drop, and want to build it.

It takes 20,000 cryotic.  I hate excavation and still have other things that need cryotic too.  There is no way to build it without cryotic.

So, I made a loadout, grabbed trusty ole Frost, equipped Strun Wraith + Catchmoon+ Nikana Prime for some weapons I found fun, I play some music and grab clanmates to hang out in party, and I have been grinding cryotic while taking steps to keep things fun.

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20 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I recently got the freezing step ephemera drop, and want to build it.

It takes 20,000 cryotic.  I hate excavation and still have other things that need cryotic too.  There is no way to build it without cryotic.

So, I made a loadout, grabbed trusty ole Frost, equipped Strun Wraith + Catchmoon+ Nikana Prime for some weapons I found fun, I play some music and grab clanmates to hang out in party, and I have been grinding cryotic while taking steps to keep things fun.

But honestly, if we follow that "we shouldn't~" thing, ephemera drop itself is already bad.

I'll actually appreciate if they remove nitains/cryotics and few other things or making it purchasable through market, not likely though.

Anyway i think it's nice that you succeed(?) to keep things fun.

Edit; maybe you meant "not everything is obtainable"? that is true, almost everything yet not everything.

Edited by Test-995
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12 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

But honestly, if we follow that "we shouldn't~" thing, ephemera drop itself is already bad.

Honestly I say it's fine.  To earn the reward, effort is required.  That particular reward is tied to that particular mission.

Most things in game come from unique sources with their own grinds.  Personally, I like it that way.  That's the Warframe I know.

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Just now, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Honestly I say it's fine.  To earn the reward, effort is required.  That particular reward is tied to that particular mission.

Most things in game come from unique sources with their own grinds.  Personally, I like it that way.  That's the Warframe I know.

That's fine, just saying there should be another option.

I'm not saying give me things for free, but give me choice to skip it with plat.

Effort or plat, That's the warframe i know.

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15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And I reject your claim as in it you acknowledge that you earned no rewards for the ones that you did not participate in, depending instead on "it will turn up again in the future".

Regarding the "uniques", do you mean excal prime and the founders package? 

Changing the subject of your argument every time your argument has been nullified is your last resort? Thats so weak.

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I don't like the alert removal, and don't see why it can't co-exist with Nightwave. Especially in the early stages of the game they are pretty exciting (An Orokin Cell or Argon Crystal? Niiiiice! A new helmet? Awesome!) and even later they were an endless supply of answers to the question "What to do next?".

Most Nightwave-Missions, on the other hand are done quickly (or even casully along the way), being exhausted fast, leaving me with the rather tedious Invasions (tedious in the regard that I have to play three Missions to get a reward, instead of having the option to play a quick filler mission) or yet another relic to open.

Nightwave in principle is fine, but except for a very few Challenges (Index without points for the enemy, One Hour Kuva Survival (with a friend)), most of them were quite bland (Kill X enemies, or Kill X enemies with Y damage) to the point where some became tedious work, rather than challenging ("Do 10 Nightmare missions").

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8 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Honestly I say it's fine.  To earn the reward, effort is required.  That particular reward is tied to that particular mission.

Efford is required? Tell that the mr10 player who recently (on a twitch stream) got carried through Exploiter Orb fight by a high rank squad and got the Freezing step ephemera on the first try. That's quite some effort he put into that... NOT!

I don't hold a grudge here, but getting blessed by RNG can't really be declared "effort". If it would be a counter, like defeat Exploiter Orb 250 times, then ok. That's effort. Getting lucky is... just that.

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Do not get me wrong but removing the alerts system was not a good thing for the game. It affects both new and experienced players in getting things like nitain / catalysts / reactors and so on. I loved the challenges in nora but I think that playing the things that appeared in the alerts for nora was not an interesting thing! I think nora should be viewed more like another union than the others! Nora syndicate should have its own items such as relic packs, umbra forms, weapons mod, some kuva package, arcanes, and so on. I think the alerts should return because it is almost a kind of tutorial for beginners in the game and that give life to the game ... I was very happy when there appeared catalysts / reactors / forms in the alerts! For me they are two different things and for different purposes. With alerts the game comes to life in some way. I hope DE will rethink the matter.  I'm feeling trapped in this system and would like more freedom!

 

Sorry my english(google translator).

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1) This should be in feedback otherwise your just adding to all the other threads wanting alerts back

2) Due to IRL schedules the alerts were unfair to those that couldn't stop what they are doing to play or had the RNG luck to be on already. This helps take that time RNG out of the equation.

3) Unlikely but they might make things cheaper to help with gatekeeping. 

Edited by Zelmen
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Really? Nitain is harder to get without alerts? Sorry guy, if anything Nightwave did make it easier to get Nitain and reactors and such. Also the reactor alerts are still there, they are gifts of the lotus. Don't get me wrong, im not defending Nightwave anymore, because I can see both sides of this argument, but don't downplay the nightwave rewards, at least for season 1, because you can get nitain, reactors and catalysts, it just requires you to play Nightwave challenges. 

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The entire point of getting rid of alerts was the problems around needing to wait up or go out of your way to catch alerts you needed and risk missing them if you have anything else more important to do like sleeping.

Bringing back alerts invalidates the entire point of the update in the first place.

At least with nightwave even if the same people who couldn't catch alerts they needed don't have the time to "finish" nightwave they're still getting the rewards they'd have missed from the alert system in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Luciole77 said:

Do not get me wrong but removing the alerts system was not a good thing for the game. It affects both new and experienced players in getting things like nitain / catalysts / reactors and so on. I loved the challenges in nora but I think that playing the things that appeared in the alerts for nora was not an interesting thing! I think nora should be viewed more like another union than the others! Nora syndicate should have its own items such as relic packs, umbra forms, weapons mod, some kuva package, arcanes, and so on. I think the alerts should return because it is almost a kind of tutorial for beginners in the game and that give life to the game ... I was very happy when there appeared catalysts / reactors / forms in the alerts! For me they are two different things and for different purposes. With alerts the game comes to life in some way. I hope DE will rethink the matter.  I'm feeling trapped in this system and would like more freedom!

 

Sorry my english(google translator).

You can also get catalysts & reactors as log in rewards, besides acquiring them during regular missions and you can farm forma with relic / fissure missions.

Also, evidently DE thought enough people had issues with Alerts that it was worth changing the system. They aren't going to change back this soon after implementing Nightwave. Will likely be a long wait until we get something different.

 

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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