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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback


SilverBones
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44 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

LOL. No. 

Want to try again? Because it impacts on the rest of your math and assertions. 

Again, it should be possible for newer players to get roughly 50 creds per week from the lower tiers. The third week is a forma bundle (normally costs plat) and the 4th is 50 creds and a potato. In the same time there should have probably been another potato as a Gift of the Lotus. A veteran might be able to get through to that point in maybe 3 weeks. 

Again if you are talking about someone so new that the can't complete any challenges, then you are dealing with a player who will not benefit and their focus is probably better spent elsewhere so that they can be better prepared for the next nightwave. Of course that level of player probably won't benefit from the majority of things on offer in the shop anyway, so we can pull all of the cosmetics out of the equation as well. 

Now, I've said repeatedly, I would like to see the costs rebalanced for the newbs, but that's not going to help someone who literally can't even begin to do the first thing. 

Bad news, mate. The very first line is wrong. After that, it's all error carried forward isn't it? 

 

 

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

While you might be correct, I'd refrain from using insults. Only serves to undermine an otherwise valid argument and it could get you into trouble.

 

 

I appreciate the response.  I also would suggest that calling someone dense is not a direct insult, but a statement of why I later suggest they scream into the void.  I should have taken heed 5 pages ago, and simply ignored them as if their comments had no value (similar to what is being done with mine).

 

I appreciate that DE has a policy, and regarding that I'd hope they understand that this is quite possibly the least angry response deserved.  On the other hand, a Zaw containing the Balla can't be called "The Balla."  Likewise, the amp most resembling an assault rifle cannot have the word "assault" anywhere in its name.  Meanwhile, I named my Kubrow by the order of breeding.  Eins, Duo, Tres, Quad, Quince,....can anyone guess the sixth?  The seventh was Sieben.   Yep, without even thinking I named my sixth Kubrow Sext without the profanity filter even blinking an eye.  Likewise, in Minnesota we referred to some of our Canadian friends as Canucks.  After suggesting the same thing at a party in Germany, we got some of the dirties looks possible.  A German friend took us aside, and confirmed that was apparently the N word to refer to people of Turkish descent.  DE's policies and enforcement are beyond my comprehension, and the goal to offend nobody is...not feasible.

In short, my point is if I have to eat a ban I'd hope that the new forum moderation would explain this.  It'd be a slap in the face, and indicate that the more things change the more they stay the same.  It would also prove that such a minor infraction causing a ban would be the death of this game, and that the PC police ruined another game.  It can burn atop the pile, because there are plenty of competing games out there.  I have faith DE is better than that, but  am willing to test it.  More importantly, if the feedback earns a ban it'll at least indicate somebody was paying attention.

 

It's sad that the bar is that low.  Despite this, hope will be maintained until it has been proven foolish (basically the point of the entire thread).  I hope I'm not a fool for espousing that.

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1 hour ago, masterofdetiny said:

I appreciate the response.  I also would suggest that calling someone dense is not a direct insult, but a statement of why I later suggest they scream into the void.

Agreed, but the mods might not see it that way. I've earned two warnings due to arguably heavy-handed interpretations of meaning and calling out another player's BS...

Glad to help btw.

1 hour ago, masterofdetiny said:

I appreciate that DE has a policy, and regarding that I'd hope they understand that this is quite possibly the least angry response deserved.  On the other hand, a Zaw containing the Balla can't be called "The Balla."

This.

1 hour ago, masterofdetiny said:

It's sad that the bar is that low.

Agreed 😕

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1 hour ago, masterofdetiny said:

You are more dense than the average neutron star.

 

As a correction, I missed one reward.  There are in fact 300 wolf credits from 1-30.  The only change is you have 80 credits rather than 30.  You discredit everything because of a single error in the math.  And because you'd get a single reactor/catalyst from the error (again, assuming you need nothing else).

Yes that makes perfect sense when your assertion was:

3 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

 

Objectively, you get 250 credits for levels 0-30, and 15 credits thereafter.  The new items on offer are:

  1. Tonkor Desert camo skin - 30 credits
  2. Atterax Desert camo skin - 30 credits
  3. Marelok Desert camo skin - 30 credits
  4. Grinlok Desert camo skin - 30 credits
  5. Hek Desert camo skin - 30 credits
  6. Karak Desert camo skin - 30 credits
  7.  Saturn Six Ornament - 40 credits

To those not counting, that's 220 credits.  Those veterans have 30 credits left, until they have to grind.  No Reactor or Catalyst, until you've ground through at least 3 additional levels of the event.  Even then, one in 10 weeks is less rewarding that the random invasions have been for me over the same time.

Again you literally started off by being wrong, and all that was left was error carried forward. Accusing me of being dense, won't change that. It's just another example of the type of ad hominem that you are willing undertake when someone brings facts and figures that disagree with your own. 

Why from there you might do something ridiculous, like suggest that people should get all of the new cosmetics at once, but then regret the opportunity cost of doing so, i.e. not being able to afford the things that that they chose not to buy. Oh... Wait that's what you did, isn't it? 

Now, had you just said that you think that the costs need to be rebalanced, I'd have agreed wholeheartedly. But that's not what you went for. 

1 hour ago, masterofdetiny said:

By that logic, allow me to demonstrate that you are incompetent.  Reward =/= Requirement for next Reward.  If you pay $10 to get into a club, get six fun bucks to spend at the bar, and discover that the music in the club is barred by another bouncer, asking for another $10 (but giving you the ability to spend your fun bucks as if they were half the value of real currency) you wouldn't call the fun bucks a reward.  I provide this example because apparently the reward system in game has done a fine job obfuscating the rewards and costs (though you'll likely misconstrue this and call it different and therefore not capable of being equated.

Another non sequitor that literally has nothing to do with nightwave. I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical because I figure you're trying to compare it with the no-net-loss from being asked to spend 6 forma and being rewarded with 6 forma. It's easily discarded by pointing out the simple fact that neither challenge was required to be completed to earn the rewards. 6k standing in total, in return for 6 forma that can be applied as you wish. I asked before if you want to compare the cost of forma to creds from the prestige ranks. I'll help you out (just to make sure that that there are no strange claims that are obviously false) it's 6 forma for 9 creds worth of standing. Looking at it from the other side, that's 70 plat for 9 creds. That's a great deal in my books. 

2 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

You repeatedly say that it needs rebalanced, then admonish anyone saying the same.  It's Schrodinger's reward system with you.  Perhaps add something to the conversation.  If you can't, but want to show you are better than everyone else because they must be wrong, then you aren't adding to the conversation.  You're in the midst of a filibuster, with you being the one person who must be right, despite admitting that you aren't, but everybody else is wrong.

Not at all. We can agree on the general change that's needed and disagree about the way it should be achieved. I'm happy to say once again that I'd like to see them rebalance the creds store and I have no problem with them raising the prices of the usually-for-pay offerings if it reduces the cost of the things that help newbs. That would probably make your erroneous math look generous in the extreme. And I'd be ok with that, as it would benefit the community. You're free to disagree of course, but turning this into an attack on the person disagreeing with you doesn't change the fact that what you said is clearly wrong. It's just an example of what you are willing to stoop to. 

2 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

From this point forward, consider me not speaking to you.  I'm sure that the above will be countered with a single quote where you said something else, ignoring the next three which changed your position later.  I can't afford you time, because you believe everyone is an idiot.  Perhaps when you put on your big boy (or girl) pants, and walk to the table with something other than "I've had every point so I must be right" we can talk.  Until that point, please troll as loudly as possible into the void.  

It's neither here nor there to me. I'll respond as I see fit, because that's the purpose of the thread. I'll even do it by addressing the points that people make, without trying to attack them as people. 

That's not what a troll would do, is it? But you go ahead and do you, mate. 

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So after approaching 90 pages of this, has any degree of consensus been reached on changes that are desired? I know a few are big with the rewards & the loss of drop in drop out quick fix option alerts presented whereas I hear alot of people just grind out NW challenges asap when the new wave hits on Sundays & feel the need to do so lest something during the week prevents them from getting those points, Calls in to work & unexpected incidents & such.

As Nora is constantly saying get it where you can when you can, not a good thing to do to folks at the start of their week, but for some this is perfect, its one day, every week that people are more active or pushing to accomplish these goals, more parties, people geared to do it & alot of folks in the same boat, Misery loves company afterall.

Again there are advantages & disadvantages here, biggest I have was the outright removal & trade for what feels like an inferior product & a poor trade for the casual player, but an absolute boon for those who needed something to get them moving beyond farming resources after having made all the stuff they wanted & having no playground to really push their efforts.

In general though I'm worried that were a few weeks away from this new way ending & another will begin & without a clear & direct lineup of WHAT people do or don't enjoy or feel are in the spirit of fun & entertainment we will all lose out.

All the ideas attacked or defended, every page of gripes & suggestions rendered moot by the communities inability to articulate its base desires for the game they're playing.

I hear alot of "if the next NW isnt better im not coming back" or "ill be taking a break" alot of folks are feeling that burnout & this again worries me, because DE wants a successful product.

So could we spare folks the pathos & drama & personal attacks, thinly veiled or otherwise?

DE needs feedback, not anyones wounded pride, btw I myself have been found guilty of this as well so I'm not without stirring the sh!t kettle here & for that ive done others an intense disservice, even if they deserved it.

But we really need to focus now, a few weeks to alter massive amounts code & in game tweaks, they need as much time as we can give them to address the concerns of their player base with this new system to prevent a mass exodus to other frontiers because we couldn't come out & say as a whole the things that are or arent wrong with it.

Anyway, a vain hope I know, but like i said when i first posted in this thread, im just that kind of hopeless twit & ill always try.

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I actually had an idea. Though this is a long thread and there has been many Nightwave threads posted since it's debut it might have been suggested before. Sorry if it has.

-Remove unique rewards from leveling up. Just give creds.

Now hear me out. This would make people feel less pressured to complete Nightwave to level 30. MAYBE you can add a few things to the cred store so people can chose what they get instead of being forced to rank up to a certain level. The pricing would have to be reasonable. If you have 30 levels, an armor set shouldn't make you have to save up 30 levels worth of creds, if you get what I mean. Perhaps for things like Warframe slots, weapon slots, etc...you could make them a one time purchase only (per Nightwave season) if that's a concern.

Maybe add a purchasable "Wolf" Beacon for creds? (or whichever character happens to be that seasons target)

 

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Having reached rank 30 and 3 Prestige ranks, I think I now have a complete feel of the Nightwave system, unless you (the devs) have some kind of surprise left. As I promised in another forum, I have been compiling a comprehensive feedback on Nightwave for submission. Here it is:

Overall Opinion:

Elimination of the Alerts' RNG and snooze-and-lose is a worthy goal, and Nightwave achieves that. Having a selection of Alerts items available for an entire week instead of randomly popping up and disappearing after 2 hours tops is a far more forgiving system, and not having to decide whether to rush to my PC when an Alert notification pops up on my phone is a blessing. On account of that alone, Nightwave is a step in the right direction. That being said, the current implementation is far from perfect and has many issues. I would like to highlight what I think those issues are, and what I think should be done about them.

Issues:

  1. Wolf Cred rewards feel stingy. Right from the start, to even get your first handful of Creds, you have to get to Rank 3 of Wolf of Saturn Six. This takes 30,000 Standing points, equivalent to all of the week's Weeklies, plus 1 Elite Weekly, plus 4 Dailies. That's too much work for just 50 Creds, which is exacerbated by...
  2. Cred Offering prices are too high. Fifty Creds is only enough for two Vauban parts, or a single weapon blueprint, or an Aura and a weapon skin, or a single helmet and 5 Nitain. That's a single week's worth of Nightwave. Can't buy anything else unless you go on a mega fugitive grind.
  3. There is a pressure to hoard. Let's face it, the most desirable Cred Offerings are obviously potatoes. The combination of Wolf Cred rewards being stingy and prices for other items being too high means many people are not going to bother with them, and save all the Cred for the potatoes instead.
  4. Nightwave and Wolf of Saturn Six are too integrated. There is widespread confusion that Nightwave and WoS6 are one and the same, and WoS6 rewards are lumped in with Cred Offerings. This has caused problems: there is a pressure to not miss out, even on players who are not in positions to be participating in the WoS6; they're either too low level or came in too late. WoS6 should be the special temporary event, no different from Operations, while Nightwave should be the base everyday system for delivering mundane Alerts items, and there should be a clear line drawn between the two.
  5. Nightwave lacks the instant reward loop that Alerts have. The basis to replacing any old system with a new one should always be "fix the bad, keep the good." For all of Alerts' flaws, it did get one thing right: the instant reward loop. You click on a mission, you spend up to 10 minutes to do it, and you are instantly rewarded. Nightwave lacks this instant reward loop: first you complete a challenge, which get you Standing points, then do another one until you get enough points to rank up, and only then are you rewarded. This is especially problematic due to aforementioned Creds being walled off at Rank 3; almost an entire week's worth of Challenges just to get some Creds to start buying mundane Alerts items. Effort should be made to match the Alerts' instant reward loop.
  6. "Prestige" rank rewards aren't very prestigious at all.  Previous rank rewards up until that point included things like 20,000 Kuva and Formas, but all we get for getting 10,000 over the top is 15 Wolf Creds. Wolf Cred rewards already feel stingy, and this is the stingy icing on the stinginess cake.
  7. Alerts were actually a better way to accumulate certain items than base missions. Alerts provided a nice boost to efforts to collect Kavat DNA, Tellurium, Oxium and Nightmare Mods, specifically Blaze and Hammer Shot. Quite frankly, this probably has more to do with the somewhat broken ways these items are normally acquired. I would get just 1-3 Kavat DNA strands per Derelict Exterminate run, and frequently get none at all. To get Tellurium, you'd either have to play Archwing missions, which nobody does, or spend a lot of time at Uranus or Kuva Fortress. Oxium means grinding lots of Corpus endless missions. Hammer Shot and Blaze have 1% chance to drop each on regular Nightmare mission; Legendary Arcanes have better drop rates from Hydrolysts, and there is no hard cap on how many Eidolons you can hunt per day. You can acquire Oxium and Tellurium from Bounties too, but that's pure RNG. In Oxium's case, this also sits on top of another RNG, since not all Bounty reward pools offer them.

Proposals for improvements:

  1. All Dailies and Weeklies should reward Creds in addition to Standing. Drip-feed them over time instead of walling them up the Standing ranks.
  2. Adjust the Cred economy. Either increase Cred drops, or reduce the Cred costs of non-potato items, or combination of both. Encourage people to spend Creds.
  3. Remove all Cred rewards from the Season rewards and replace them with more potatoes. This should ease the pressure to hoard and encourage more spending of Creds.
  4. Elite Weeklies should NOT reward Creds - Standing only. This, along with the removal of Creds from Season rewards, draws a clear line between the special Season event and the base Nightwave. Elite Weeklies are strictly for ranking up the Season event faster, and if you are not in a position to participate in the Season rewards line, this is a clear sign post encouraging you to just concentrate on the dailies and weeklies and the mundane stuff until the next season. At this point, you can get creative with your Elites.
  5. Common in-mission random events (fugitive spawns, in this case) should reward Creds only - no Standing. This is to more immediately reward the more dedicated players.
  6. Rare in-mission random events (Wolf of Saturn Six, in this case) should reward Standing.
  7. For the Weeklies, reward Creds in increments. For example, for the 3 Spy Missions Weekly, reward small amounts of Creds for each one completed, then reward bonus Creds along with Standing for completing all three.
  8. Better Prestige rank rewards. Since the base Nightwave system now handles delivery of Creds in entirety, we should have, say, a cycle between Formas, Kuva and Exilus Adapters instead?
  9. Add Kavat DNA, Tellurium and Oxium to the Cred Offerings.
  10. Increase the drop chances of Hammer Shot and Blaze. Ideally, all Nightmare Mods should have the same drop chance. Corrupted mods already do, so why not Nightmare mods? Even an increase to 5% each would be very helpful.

Conclusion:

As I said, I appreciate the core objective of Nightwave, but also see flaws in the current implementation. This is not in itself abnormal. I have compiled this feedback because I see this balance of potential and flaws, and I hope I have done so in an clear, concise, and objective manner. I hope, but do not expect, my feedback to be read by the developers and taken into account. I have done my part, now it is up to others to submit their own feedback, and for the developers to decide how to use them. Honest and factual criticism should be seen as an opportunity to improve; an opportunity I hope the developers will take. I look forward to seeing the next iteration, and seeing the said opportunity come into fruition.

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39 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Having reached rank 30 and 3 Prestige ranks, I think I now have a complete feel of the Nightwave system, unless you (the devs) have some kind of surprise left. As I promised in another forum, I have been compiling a comprehensive feedback on Nightwave for submission. Here it is:

Overall Opinion:

Elimination of the Alerts' RNG and snooze-and-lose is a worthy goal, and Nightwave achieves that. Having a selection of Alerts items available for an entire week instead of randomly popping up and disappearing after 2 hours tops is a far more forgiving system, and not having to decide whether to rush to my PC when an Alert notification pops up on my phone is a blessing. On account of that alone, Nightwave is a step in the right direction. That being said, the current implementation is far from perfect and has many issues. I would like to highlight what I think those issues are, and what I think should be done about them.

Issues:

  1. Wolf Cred rewards feel stingy. Right from the start, to even get your first handful of Creds, you have to get to Rank 3 of Wolf of Saturn Six. This takes 30,000 Standing points, equivalent to all of the week's Weeklies, plus 1 Elite Weekly, plus 4 Dailies. That's too much work for just 50 Creds, which is exacerbated by...
  2. Cred Offering prices are too high. Fifty Creds is only enough for two Vauban parts, or a single weapon blueprint, or an Aura and a weapon skin, or a single helmet and 5 Nitain. That's a single week's worth of Nightwave. Can't buy anything else unless you go on a mega fugitive grind.
  3. There is a pressure to hoard. Let's face it, the most desirable Cred Offerings are obviously potatoes. The combination of Wolf Cred rewards being stingy and prices for other items being too high means many people are not going to bother with them, and save all the Cred for the potatoes instead.
  4. Nightwave and Wolf of Saturn Six are too integrated. There is widespread confusion that Nightwave and WoS6 are one and the same, and WoS6 rewards are lumped in with Cred Offerings. This has caused problems: there is a pressure to not miss out, even on players who are not in positions to be participating in the WoS6; they're either too low level or came in too late. WoS6 should be the special temporary event, no different from Operations, while Nightwave should be the base everyday system for delivering mundane Alerts items, and there should be a clear line drawn between the two.
  5. Nightwave lacks the instant reward loop that Alerts have. The basis to replacing any old system with a new one should always be "fix the bad, keep the good." For all of Alerts' flaws, it did get one thing right: the instant reward loop. You click on a mission, you spend up to 10 minutes to do it, and you are instantly rewarded. Nightwave lacks this instant reward loop: first you complete a challenge, which get you Standing points, then do another one until you get enough points to rank up, and only then are you rewarded. This is especially problematic due to aforementioned Creds being walled off at Rank 3; almost an entire week's worth of Challenges just to get some Creds to start buying mundane Alerts items. Effort should be made to match the Alerts' instant reward loop.
  6. "Prestige" rank rewards aren't very prestigious at all.  Previous rank rewards up until that point included things like 20,000 Kuva and Formas, but all we get for getting 10,000 over the top is 15 Wolf Creds. Wolf Cred rewards already feel stingy, and this is the stingy icing on the stinginess cake.
  7. Alerts were actually a better way to accumulate certain items than base missions. Alerts provided a nice boost to efforts to collect Kavat DNA, Tellurium, Oxium and Nightmare Mods, specifically Blaze and Hammer Shot. Quite frankly, this probably has more to do with the somewhat broken ways these items are normally acquired. I would get just 1-3 Kavat DNA strands per Derelict Exterminate run, and frequently get none at all. To get Tellurium, you'd either have to play Archwing missions, which nobody does, or spend a lot of time at Uranus or Kuva Fortress. Oxium means grinding lots of Corpus endless missions. Hammer Shot and Blaze have 1% chance to drop each on regular Nightmare mission; Legendary Arcanes have better drop rates from Hydrolysts, and there is no hard cap on how many Eidolons you can hunt per day. You can acquire Oxium and Tellurium from Bounties too, but that's pure RNG. In Oxium's case, this also sits on top of another RNG, since not all Bounty reward pools offer them.

Proposals for improvements:

  1. All Dailies and Weeklies should reward Creds in addition to Standing. Drip-feed them over time instead of walling them up the Standing ranks.
  2. Adjust the Cred economy. Either increase Cred drops, or reduce the Cred costs of non-potato items, or combination of both. Encourage people to spend Creds.
  3. Remove all Cred rewards from the Season rewards and replace them with more potatoes. This should ease the pressure to hoard and encourage more spending of Creds.
  4. Elite Weeklies should NOT reward Creds - Standing only. This, along with the removal of Creds from Season rewards, draws a clear line between the special Season event and the base Nightwave. Elite Weeklies are strictly for ranking up the Season event faster, and if you are not in a position to participate in the Season rewards line, this is a clear sign post encouraging you to just concentrate on the dailies and weeklies and the mundane stuff until the next season. At this point, you can get creative with your Elites.
  5. Common in-mission random events (fugitive spawns, in this case) should reward Creds only - no Standing. This is to more immediately reward the more dedicated players.
  6. Rare in-mission random events (Wolf of Saturn Six, in this case) should reward Standing.
  7. For the Weeklies, reward Creds in increments. For example, for the 3 Spy Missions Weekly, reward small amounts of Creds for each one completed, then reward bonus Creds along with Standing for completing all three.
  8. Better Prestige rank rewards. Since the base Nightwave system now handles delivery of Creds in entirety, we should have, say, a cycle between Formas, Kuva and Exilus Adapters instead?
  9. Add Kavat DNA, Tellurium and Oxium to the Cred Offerings.
  10. Increase the drop chances of Hammer Shot and Blaze. Ideally, all Nightmare Mods should have the same drop chance. Corrupted mods already do, so why not Nightmare mods? Even an increase to 5% each would be very helpful.

Conclusion:

As I said, I appreciate the core objective of Nightwave, but also see flaws in the current implementation. This is not in itself abnormal. I have compiled this feedback because I see this balance of potential and flaws, and I hope I have done so in an clear, concise, and objective manner. I hope, but do not expect, my feedback to be read by the developers and taken into account. I have done my part, now it is up to others to submit their own feedback, and for the developers to decide how to use them. Honest and factual criticism should be seen as an opportunity to improve; an opportunity I hope the developers will take. I look forward to seeing the next iteration, and seeing the said opportunity come into fruition.

Sweet lord! ask & thy prayers be answered! thank you, thats the kinda stuff they need to see from us here, got me forming a template for my own version of this, but yours already nailed a large cross section of what i see as major issues as well as rational solutions.

Mine will inevitably end with a more desired measure of integrating NW into the game to enhance a lackluster universe that really needs to become a cohesive whole as opposed to the microcosms everything is locked behind as I favor depth & the feeling of being involved with the games world, its characters & developing a sense of consequence for choices made, but more later.

Again thank you, stuff like this gives a fella hope!

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Came back to the game in time for nightwave. I had gotten to about saturn when I last gave up on warframe. I had a few frames, including Rhino and two twitch primes (trinity/frost). My available auras where rifle amp and physique IIRC. So I had a lot of good stuff that I needed out of nightwave's rewards.

I wasn't even able to glance the cosmetic rewards. All my wolf cred had to be reserved for the must have auras. With some spent on nitain because it's now a horrific resource to farm. I spent some time trying ghoul bounties but 1 nitain is in the rarest category of drops. If Vauban was cheaper I might give him a try but his wolf cred cost locks out too many other things I need. I also couldn't seriously consider grabbing forma or potatos from wolf cred.

At the start I wasn't even able to complete every challenge. Some of them where just ahead of where I was at with warframe a few weeks ago. So I'm not really caring about whether I can reach 30 with it or not. However, it's really difficult to hit warframe hard and get the resource rewards out of it. Too little wolf cred to resources for time invested getting that wolf cred.

Which isn't to say it's all bad. I've overall enjoyed the challenges presented and like the system. I just wish it didn't feel like increased scarcity for resources I desperately need (nitain/potatos/forma).

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38 minutes ago, BadgerDrool said:

Came back to the game in time for nightwave. I had gotten to about saturn when I last gave up on warframe. I had a few frames, including Rhino and two twitch primes (trinity/frost). My available auras where rifle amp and physique IIRC. So I had a lot of good stuff that I needed out of nightwave's rewards.

I wasn't even able to glance the cosmetic rewards. All my wolf cred had to be reserved for the must have auras. With some spent on nitain because it's now a horrific resource to farm. I spent some time trying ghoul bounties but 1 nitain is in the rarest category of drops. If Vauban was cheaper I might give him a try but his wolf cred cost locks out too many other things I need. I also couldn't seriously consider grabbing forma or potatos from wolf cred.

At the start I wasn't even able to complete every challenge. Some of them where just ahead of where I was at with warframe a few weeks ago. So I'm not really caring about whether I can reach 30 with it or not. However, it's really difficult to hit warframe hard and get the resource rewards out of it. Too little wolf cred to resources for time invested getting that wolf cred.

Which isn't to say it's all bad. I've overall enjoyed the challenges presented and like the system. I just wish it didn't feel like increased scarcity for resources I desperately need (nitain/potatos/forma).

Potatoes and forma are "premium" (because they are available with plat) resources and shouldn't be easy to farm. They weren't before, so it's fair. However, nitain is a problem right now for people who's starting.

Before, with the alerts, if I had to farm nitain, I'd set my objective on it and would try to catch as many alerts as I could. It wasn't perfect, I know, but at least, I could get my nitain AND auras that could appear. As it is now, getting nitain means choosing things that you won't get. I said it before, we need either more wolfcreds (and raise the price of potatoes to keep the rate of potatoes/wolfcreds equal), or lower the prices of most things of the cred shop.

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12 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

This applies to everything that DE wants to add to Warframe that they've seen in other games and feel looks cool - such as "juggling" enemies. What works in game x won't necessarily work for game y without an understanding as to why it works.

Just wait for the railjack, which is going to suffer from just that.

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1 hour ago, Bathynomus said:

Just wait for the railjack, which is going to suffer from just that.

We're 4 months into 2019.  Railjack hasn't been spoken about in any clear terms.  The focus seems to be on getting PoE and Fortuna buttoned up and functional, with the promised content (the orbs).  It's my hope that the lack of any mention of Railjack is a sign that it is being worked on heavily, and that it'll release in a functional state.

 

This being said; Archwing, Conclave, PoE, Fortuna, and pretty much everything from the last 6 years has released as a 65-75% product.  I hope DE takes the NIghtwave as a bit of breathing room, iterates on it, and uses the 20+ weeks to get things tested and working.  Heck, melee 3.0 is still in the earliest phases.  It shows some promise but if we're honest though, it's largely being delayed because the initial proposal was...not received well.  In the same way that "nerf Itzal's Blink to make K-drives better" was not received well.   Ooh, add the entire K-drive system to the earlier list of 65-75% product launches.  The k-drives are still only about a 25% product (read: they literally serve no purpose and only relatively recently have races even awarded the faction standing).

 

Here's hoping for an 80% Railjack, with room for improvement and DE slowing down to properly integrate it before the next trend/fad pops up.  Thank god conclave flopped, otherwise it'd be Battle Royale of the Tenno.  Please, take that as a joke.  I don't play Warframe for it to be Fort Nite. Please, it was said in jest. 

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Nah, the PvE is this games bread n butter, if DE really starts down that path, another Diablo I will not suffer, im already having enough Blizzard post Activision flashbacks, but Railjack is a ways out & thankfully so, Archwings have amazing potential & I'd like to see fun stuff like boarding parties, tearing open a corpus capital ship, or blitzing around outside the Larunda relay fending off a grineer offensive while other players hold of enemy boarders.

Orbital bombardments, hell, Liset space combat, I'd dig being an escort fighter in a scimitar for a pair of Liset used as Tenno troop transport to breech A Famorian.

Anyway, all possibilities, always willinv to give folks a chance, have to, anything else robs one of any number of amazing experiences.

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On 2019-04-14 at 7:47 AM, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

So out of curiosity, what here did you not understand that required you to respond with a meme instead of an actual response that this isnt an exact replica of your arguments made manifest.

There was so much wrong in your post from not understanding where he won't spawn to not liking Archwing that only a meme was suitable.
Rather than come here and complain and display nothing but ignorance. Google what you don't know first.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

300 creds, not 250.

Fair.  About five posts later that rectification was made.  

Delta is 50 credits, so you could earn a single reactor/catalyst in 10 weeks just doing the 30 levels and you'd need another 5 prestige levels (15*5+5 = 80) to get a second one.  The net influence is realistically 1 of each in 10 weeks. 

Nothing related to it being painfully less rewarding than alerts has changed.  Nothing about it being miserable to be a new player (20 credits per aura would mean no reactors/catalysts in the time if you want one of each polarity).  This is fundamentally less rewarding for new players, and should be seen as a failure relating to the stated goal of removing a relic system (antiquated might be the word, but I don't see it as such)  to replace it with something better.  The only "better" thing about it is the cosmetics....because fashion frame is endgame (the taste of bile in my mouth saying that is palpable).

 

I will admit missing one of the rewards, but dismissing the point for that is rather missing the point.  2/3 of a reactor/catalyst reward points increase is....I'd call it less than a substantive counterpoint.  This is especially true when you note that the new frame's alternative helmet has not made the rotation.  After 10 weeks of Alerts, I had the Garuda and Baruuk helmets built and ready (lamp shade and all). 

Hildryn has been relegated to requiring a platinum purchase....seems surprisingly like they can control and drive new platinum sales with the new artificial scarcity.  But what am I, an economist able to observe the variable trading price of auras because someone outside of DE actually has that (because DE is unwilling to share, akin to the Riven market shenanigans)?  It's the greatest shell game, and only possible because the gigantic amalgam of systems in Warframe seem to be viewed as unlinked.  In practice, that's a pretty foolish stance, when it can easily be demonstrated by Prime releases and the subsequent surge in Rivens for whatever was primed.  

 

Again, DE can do better.  We as the consumer need to force them, and sometimes that's by calling shenanigans on bad systems.  Personally, 40+ Doma thumpers later and I still don't have a Korrudo BP.  I'm still searching for 2.5% drops from the Aerial commander.  I've got no chance at the fractional percentage drops for the Xiphos (it would literally be less time to get a minimum wage job and work to buy it, rather than grind).  We have to stand somewhere, and I choose the death of the new player experience to be where I draw the line.  Everything in the following paragraph is the nature of RNG, but Nightwave is a fundamentally bad system that can be altered to be so much better (assuming it learns from Alerts, instead of supplanting them).

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5 hours ago, Bathynomus said:

Just wait for the railjack, which is going to suffer from just that.

I can't wait *rolls eyes*

Based on what's been shown, It looks really impressive. Given DE's track record though, I'm expecting a massive amount of grind for a buggy, lackluster, cliche-ridden payoff. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Same deal with Nightwave. When DE first talked about it, I thought "Hey, that's a cool idea. That should tag along with Alerts nicely." When it rolled out, I thought "Nice rewards, but what's the ca- ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh more grind, a bit of time gating, and much more commitment to Warframe needed. Also, pressure to do activities I despise. Joy."

 

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I like the concept of Nightwave, I really do, the ability to log in more flexibility instead of within very limited time windows is a boon, the added story and overarching system and feeling of progression is a boon, and the new rewards are super cool, however, as many have pointed out, the drawback is that it's simply a lot more time invested for the old rewards, I get that they don't want everyone to have a billion catalysts, however I propose a compromise, be a LOT more generous with credits in the future, however limit how many catalysts we can buy per event to whatever the maximum amount of catalysts we could've obtained in the same time frame under the alert system, that's how I'd handle it, at least.

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I  really like the idea of battle pass...cough...Nightwave, it provide a reason to return to the game more often and some good rewards for that, if you willing to do challenges. However i think that alerts should stay, be buffed even (cred and resources one). I don't need any catalysts, but average or new players can't get even nearly as much of potatoes as they can before, with normal alters, especially if they want to buy cosmetics and other stuff for wolf credits, which is bad, coz they may start to think that his is p2w game. Talking about cosmetics, with old alert system i can bet 2000p that i will get alt helmet for hildryn for time that frames was released till today(or atlest there was one or two alerts with that reward). But with new system i just can't get it coz i can't get it with random alerts and can't buy it via wolf creds, coz it's just not there and i don't know when it will be, and this is a bad.

TL;DR-Keep the nightwave as it is, it's good and healthy for the game, but bring old alert back and buff those,that rewards you with only resource and credit, like x3-5 time buff it.

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1 hour ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

I don't need any catalysts, but average or new players can't get even nearly as much of potatoes as they can before, with normal alters, especially if they want to buy cosmetics and other stuff for wolf credits, which is bad, coz they may start to think that his is p2w game.

What? 

Normal alerts were mainly cruft like helmets and small amounts of credits. Auras and weapons were welcome, the first couple of times. Occasionally we'd get some rarer resources, or a nice patch of credits. The kubrow eggs and kavat DNA were pretty good though. The main thing was Potatoes were mainly gifts of the Lotus every couple of weeks, which is still a thing, and invasions are also unchanged. 

I'm mainly concerned that they can't get the auras and the MR fodder weapons. 

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On 2019-03-04 at 10:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark

well, you sure missed the mark in one particular challenge - at least for me: the do X sorties... which is a bit hard to do since i'm constantly get out locked from them due to my riven count exceeding 90 and me not having too many of them left i want to trash. those that are for sell still need some time to find buyers. so yeah, would be nice to either remove those challenges or better yet, let me buy more riven capacity than 90...

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My biggest grip with NW atm:

Please make sure your challenges work.

This is the SECOND time with normal nightlies that have been reset on me.

”Pick up 15,000 credits”: Sure, easy I’ll run a survival. Did that- got 2,000 credits. Ok, I’ll come back with my secure lecta.

 Reset to 0/15,000.

”Bullet jump 150 times”: Annoying but easy. Did 100 in the first sortie- just doing the second sortie now and 0/150.

 I’m trying to like NW- I really am, but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it if I can’t get x challenge done within ONE mission just because it decided to crap out.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

My biggest grip with NW atm:

Please make sure your challenges work.

This is the SECOND time with normal nightlies that have been reset on me.

”Pick up 15,000 credits”: Sure, easy I’ll run a survival. Did that- got 2,000 credits. Ok, I’ll come back with my secure lecta.

 Reset to 0/15,000.

”Bullet jump 150 times”: Annoying but easy. Did 100 in the first sortie- just doing the second sortie now and 0/150.

 I’m trying to like NW- I really am, but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it if I can’t get x challenge done within ONE mission just because it decided to crap out.

Weird, I didn't have either of those issues. Were you having trouble with "network not responding" at the time, or anything? 

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Weird, I didn't have either of those issues. Were you having trouble with "network not responding" at the time, or anything? 

Nope 😕

 My ping and internet are good, but I’m hesitant with any of the other challenges now. It always works a second time, but as of recent it’s been resetting once I start the challenge for the first time.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

Nope 😕

 My ping and internet are good, but I’m hesitant with any of the other challenges now. It always works a second time, but as of recent it’s been resetting once I start the challenge for the first time.

If you weren't always the host then they're not going to guarantee that you are good to go. I'm sorry that you are having this issue, but I can honestly say that to the best of my knowledge, I haven't had a similar problem. 

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