Feels like nightwave did a lot of damage to the community

[(NSW)Bromsson]

So first of all, I'm kind of new to the game. I started playing this game 4 months ago on the switch and I just recently made an account on PC a month and a half ago. You could say that for the entirety of the time I've played this game I've been stuck in the new player experience. The great thing about it is that I've always had help from many other players, mostly from experienced players (or veterans if you will). The alert system at times felt a little bit unfair as a new player. The game wouldn't list ALL the alerts available and even if it did you wouldn't be able to get there because it was on a planet you didn't have access to, nightmare missions were pretty hard and many times I wouldn't get the things that I actually needed from the alerts. However the community was always there to not only notify me of an important aura/potato/nightmare mod to collect but also offered to get me there and even help me with the mission! Some would even go as far as collecting the auras for newer players! Two thoughts crossed by my mind then. First was of course, how great people were to go out of their way to help other people. And last, how easy it was for them to help other people. You really didn't have to invest hours to help someone out, you just ran out a mission and there he goes with a new aura mod/potato/nightmare mod/alternative helmet. Maybe then he would then in turn offer someone else help to get to the rewards of the alert.

Anyway, it was nice having people care for each other in such an easy and impactful way. The real problem is we have gone the complete opposite direction with nightwave. Unlike alerts were you didn't have access to all of them, you do have access to all challenges... but unlike alerts some of them can't be done at all. Worst of all is that not only the system is heading in the complete opposite way, the older playerbase is going with it! I never had someone tell me: "This alert is not for you! If you haven't got to this point in the star chart then you shouldn't be able to do it!" or "It's ok to miss some alerts, you don't need this alert!" or "No, this is a gift of the lotus alert for high levels, you don't even need rivens for the star chart!". This is however the exact things I keep hearing over and over for nightwave. Worst of all is we keep getting hung up on semantics. "This is an elite mission, it's supposed to be hard". When all you can really say of "elite weekly" acts is that they give more standing than "weekly" acts. There's nothing "elite" about opening 10 relics or killing 1500 enemies.

By sort of tying up the new rewards with the old ones through the same system we've got the two playerbase distancing themselves even further. You got the older playerbase telling the newer playerbase they are not entitled to partake on some of the content and the newer playerbase that's just disgruntled because they pretty much need to be able to hit the wolf cred marks before the rewards rotate.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

Worst of all is we keep getting hung up on semantics. "This is an elite mission, it's supposed to be hard". When all you can really say of "elite weekly" acts is that they give more standing than "weekly" acts. There's nothing "elite" about opening 10 relics or killing 1500 enemies.

Pretty much this is my huge issue with the way some people are responding to Nightwave.

But then again any chance a game community will get to stroke their own e-peen tends to wind up this way, no matter how flimsy the basis or reasoning.

Overall if they want this to change for the better all they need to do is frontload the Nightwave cred within the first 10-15 ranks, plop the cheaper plat one time rewards (Reactors, Slots etc.) slightly further ahead and just make the unique cosmetics be earned at the end.

[krc473]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

"This alert is not for you! If you haven't got to this point in the star chart then you shouldn't be able to do it!" or "It's ok to miss some alerts, you don't need this alert!"

You probably should have played more on the old system then. This was not all that uncommon. Still nowhere near as prevalent as it is with Nightwave of course.

• It helps with Nightwave, because DE said to the playerbase: you only need 60% of the points to hit rank 30, assuming it lasts 10 weeks. So people can reference DE when they tell you to skip stuff.

10 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

"This is an elite mission, it's supposed to be hard"

I have always just found these to be "elite" means "takes longer". I don't really see much of an issue here. Sure, it would be nice if DE gave us some genuine challenges in this. But that would lock out so many people. I am not sure the system is sustainable if they do that every single week with all the elite challenges.

 

At this stage, I think DE just needs to just change the majority of the Nightwave system. The rewards are terribly setup (yes, I know you get only cred after 30). And most of the challenges seem to just be fairly pointless "space filler" tasks. I mean, look at what we had today for PC: use one emote, for 1000 points. It makes for easy points. But I really cannot see why that kind of task is even in there.

[Soldier1312]

10 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I have always just found these to be "elite" means "takes longer". I don't really see much of an issue here.

Actually the longest tasks are probably bounties. >.<

[--F--NerevarCM]

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

I never had someone tell me: "This alert is not for you! If you haven't got to this point in the star chart then you shouldn't be able to do it!" or "It's ok to miss some alerts, you don't need this alert!" or "No, this is a gift of the lotus alert for high levels, you don't even need rivens for the star chart!".

Then you didn't played alerts long enough.

[Cibyllae]

The community was always S#&amp;&#036;, now they just can't hide it from the newer player base. Before they got their rocks off to helping people, thats how they inflated their egos. Now, they inflate by bashing new players. Vets were never your friends, you just thought they were. It was fake kindness the whole time. Now you get to see the true colors of the community.

[Casey33]

was a casual but now i gotta do the weekys so i am already burnt out on warframe, once i get the umbra forma i wont touch this game for a year

Edited March 20, 2019 by Casey33

[AlphaPHENIX]

42 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

Some would even go as far as collecting the auras for newer players!

Ah yes, I rememeber being one of them.

Now I still can, but won't do it, because wolf creds are harder to obtain then they should be.

[YUNoJump]

Personally I think some amount of Wolf Creds should just be given as a reward for finishing any challenge, that way you don't have to:

a) feel as much like you're on a timer until the season ends as a new player.

b) feel like you got nothing out of a rank up as a veteran who already owns every helmet and Aura you want.

It also removes the hypothetical situation that may occur between seasons where a player is 90% of the way to a Wolf Cred rank up and then the season resets and it's all wasted. Every reward in the rank up list, other than Creds, stays in your inventory after the season ends, so Creds shouldn't be awarded the same way as everything else.

[HexOmega111x]

The community did a lot of damage to itself. Stop looking at DE and talk more about players behavior and mentality. 

[Aldain]

30 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Then you didn't played alerts long enough.

Back in the day many people were more than happy to taxi new players to these alerts, I myself got a taxi back when I was a wee MR5 to a Steel Charge alert which single handedly changed how I was (at the time) able to mod my starter Excalibur and other frames.

Sure in this system you can buy the auras and hand them off to new players, but that comes at a cost, not of time, but actual credits that are now used for a unique resource or for Reactors and Catalysts.

For every one person I saw who said "Screw you play more to reach the alerts noob!" I saw more than plenty of other players willing to take what would often be a maximum of 5-10 minutes to extend a helping hand to new players.

So no good Tenno, I don't buy that the old alert system was as cold and detached as missions are now, because even though it was for shorter time than most for players here, I did play through that system, and I did both help and be helped by players in that system.

[DoomFruit]

I like nightwave because nitain is now actually obtainable through player effort rather than you having to obey the game's whim and follow its schedule in order to make any progress.

I'm not particularly keen on the wolf credit distribution method, it should have been done by getting X every time you level up instead of getting large batches at irregular intervals. I'm also not massively enthused by the forma distribution - they should have been made a purchaseable item rather than a level reward.

I hate nightwave because of Nora and her incessant spam. Seriously, Nora, shut up. SHUT UP SHUT UP GET OUT OF MY FACE AAAAAA!!

[Ultimatesoup]

Il y a 4 heures, HexOmega111x a dit :

The community did a lot of damage to itself. Stop looking at DE and talk more about players behavior and mentality. 

So far DE has :

-Been ignoring the complaints about Universal vacuum, the hema, the chat moderation, and I don't know how many other issues for years.

-Been doing scripted events for years.

-Said they will reduce the grind...in 2014. Yet somehow we got PoE, Fortuna, and now Nigthwave, which hides previous rewards that you would get in a mission of 5-10 minutes behind a massive grindwall.

-Turned a blind-eye to the Rahetalius fiasco after the completely unprofessional answer from Steve/Rebecca/Megan. There wasn't even an official statement about it. The only thing I think saw was a reddit comment from Megan (Or Rebecca? Forgot) saying "We will improve this" in an extremely vague way.

But hey it's the community's fault for wanting a better game I guess 🤷‍♂️

[Guest]

5 hours ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

Worst of all is we keep getting hung up on semantics. "This is an elite mission, it's supposed to be hard". When all you can really say of "elite weekly" acts is that they give more standing than "weekly" acts. There's nothing "elite" about opening 10 relics or killing 1500 enemies.

People complained they were too hard so DE made it easier.

I completed all Elite Alerts since nightwave came except the Play 1 Sortie with friend that was bugged.

Thing is, I'm not complaining they got easier.

[(PSN)KresTias]

OP, majority of playerbase of this game 2 years+. WF was always unfriendly to new players, nothing changed.

Edited March 20, 2019 by (PS4)KresTias

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 14 minutes, Datam4ss a dit :

People complained they were too hard so DE made it easier.

I completed all Elite Alerts since nightwave came except the Play 1 Sortie with friend that was bugged.

Thing is, I'm not complaining they got easier.

Are you talking about the 60 minutes survival? 

[(PSN)robi191291]

The alerts are the new void keys. 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by (PS4)robi191291

[Ulvra]

Sadly the toxicity has been there for ages. It's always been veterans vs new players, people who like to sit hours in a mission vs people who find challenge elsewhere, etc., however what Nightwave seem to have done is to bring that friction out in the open for everyone to see the ugliness of it. It's sad.

I do personally really like the Nightwave system, it's definitely not perfect, but a few minor changes and I think it could be really good. Most significant rather than giving only a set amount of acts I'd like them to bump it up by 50 to 100% of what we have now, but instead only allow the same amount. Say you can gather the weekly 36k standing from the weeklies as it is now, plus 1k per daily outside that limitation (to encourage daily or bi-daily play), but the available act pool is instead 49k to 72k, that way you should be able to get your weekly without being forced into acts you don't like while you still may be encouraged to do others. The problem of course is that it lessens the intended effect of pushing people into new content, but then again, do we really need to be pushed? I for one like a challenge and if I can get an extra encouragement to take on something new I might just go do that instead of grinding up a certain amount of kills.

Another issue is the locked content problem, some of that would be handled by the former, but things like the profit-taker... I hate the fact that I cannot step in and help my friends do it and I just have to shrug and say sorry, I wish you'd ground your standing in time. Those challenges while I could accept them existing if there's alternatives quickly end up creating more of this toxicity. Other challenges like the ayatans or the forma challenge could be dealt with simply by reducing the amount, 2 ayatans is doable even for a newbie but 5 you pretty much have to have access to arbitrations which again are locked behind a progression wall so I can't even taxi others there. Similarly 1 forma is doable and does the same as the current, just without wasting as many resources and time, because if you're a newbie and you first need to farm relics, crack them, get the right drops three times, gather the resources to craft and first then have to wait 72 hours for it to finish it becomes tough to even make it in time, especially when you also need places to stick them afterwards.

I'd also like to see it changed to be consequetive seasons you can play whenever, allow people to pause at the end of the week so you don't have to be forced to never take a week off, then when you return, click resume and it starts again beginning of next week. That way you'd maintain a set duration for balance while acknowledging that people have lives and may suffer burnout. Could also add a skip season button for those who really don't want anything from a season so they can bypass it rather than wait 10 weeks, but I am a little worried that'd end up like a second "I sold this frame now I can't get it back because it's a quest frame, help support" issue.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Ulvra

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Are you talking about the 60 minutes survival? 

Nah, that wasn't the one I didn't do. The very first week where you had to do one Sortie with a friend. It was bugged and the bug was reported.

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 25 minutes, Ulvra a dit :

Sadly the toxicity has been there for ages. It's always been veterans vs new players, people who like to sit hours in a mission vs people who find challenge elsewhere, etc., however what Nightwave seem to have done is to bring that friction out in the open for everyone to see the ugliness of it. It's sad.

 

Why do people like to blame toxicity whenever there is an issue? Because it makes no sense. This is on the same line than meaningless claims like "The community is never happy".

 

il y a 10 minutes, Datam4ss a dit :

Nah, that wasn't the one I didn't do. The very first week where you had to do one Sortie with a friend. It was bugged and the bug was reported.

 

I was actually talking about "People complained they were too hard so DE made it easier". I'd say people complained that it was too boring and that host migrations are a cripple. The game by itself is very easy mechanically speaching.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ultimatesoup said:

I was actually talking about "People complained they were too hard so DE made it easier". I'd say people complained that it was too boring and that host migrations are a cripple. The game by itself is very easy mechanically speaching.

No, people literally complained it was too hard. Like on the forum.

You underestimate the lack of effort on most player's part

[Ulvra]

1 minute ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Why do people like to blame toxicity whenever there is an issue? Because it makes no sense. This is on the same line than meaningless claims like "The community is never happy".

Not sure where you see the blaming happening. I'm stating a fact, the toxicity is there and I've been seeing it more visibly since Nightwave became a thing, whether you see it or ignore it is irrelevant.

[LuckyCharm]

The thing about alerts vs nightwave is that alerts were one-off missions where you went in, did the thing and got the reward. Now however if you were to say... need Lua ascendant rooms or whatever they were called (i just always called them challenge rooms) you needed 4x of em, and they dont spawn in every mission, so you could be running upwards of 10 missions to get the four you need. Assuming you got the challenge done in the first 4x runs thats still 4x taxi's you'd have had to ask for. 10+x if your RNG was bad. 

Add to that you need to do many more of the nightwave missions just to unlock your first "wolf creds" which in the same time you could have gotten multiple aura mods, alt helms, and nitain from just doing alerts that came up when you were online. 

The reason it's more toxic now is because literally every single player  is getting more burned out, grinding many times the missions as usual for many times less reward, so between frustration and some people already not wanting to carry newbies you have a big problem. (that's if you can even do the missions, sometimes like this week there's missions you literally need days and days of grind preparation to even attempt the mission. Here's looking at you profit taker). Add to that players see just how many missions each week they have to do, efficiency is pretty much king at this point, since the less time you spend doing these missions, the more time you can spend actually DOING things in game, like kuva farm, event farm, fashion frame, relic hunt.. anything thats not nightwave. People dont want to be carrying newbies who're gonna slow em down

I used to give out auras for free. Used to. Now though i'd probably reconsider because I myself am getting many times less aura mods, and having to spend wolf creds on them if I do indeed want to pick up spares. After all the work it took to get the creds my asking price would no longer be zero, at least for me anyway. And that's the an issue.

 

[Kuldor]

5 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

People complained they were too hard so DE made it easier.

I completed all Elite Alerts since nightwave came except the Play 1 Sortie with friend that was bugged.

Thing is, I'm not complaining they got easier.

No, they didn't, you are talking out of your ass.

 

DE specifically said they couldn't change anything on season 1 and any change would come with season 2.

[Ulvra]

4 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

The reason it's more toxic now is because literally every single player  is getting more burned out, grinding many times the missions as usual for many times less reward, so between frustration and some people already not wanting to carry newbies you have a big problem. (that's if you can even do the missions, sometimes like this week there's missions you literally need days and days of grind preparation to even attempt the mission. Here's looking at you profit taker). Add to that players see just how many missions each week they have to do, efficiency is pretty much king at this point, since the less time you spend doing these missions, the more time you can spend actually DOING things in game, like kuva farm, event farm, fashion frame, relic hunt.. anything thats not nightwave. People dont want to be carrying newbies who're gonna slow em down

I used to give out auras for free. Used to. Now though i'd probably reconsider because I myself am getting many times less aura mods, and having to spend wolf creds on them if I do indeed want to pick up spares. After all the work it took to get the creds my asking price would no longer be zero, at least for me anyway. And that's the an issue.

I don't really agree on the first part, as I see it's more a matter of different factions trying to affect the system as is simultaneously to try to steer it in their desired direction. Personally I don't mind running missions multiple times to help others, for instance I did the kuva survival with friends twice because others needed it too, but that is of course different person to person.

As for the auras, same really, I'd stock up on them and give them out when others were lacking, but now my stock is dwindling. I'll probably still buy some, but currently I am holding off because I don't know how many creds I'll even have and I'll need at least some potatoes, so instead of buying extras my creds are just lying around. End of it all it'll depend on whether the right auras come up when I have nothing else to buy after prestiging this thing.