Hilariously overpriced rivens

[YandereWaifu]

1 hour ago, Souldend78 said:

Interesting @YandereWaifu

itemType": "Shotgun Riven Mod",
		"compatibility": "EXERGIS",
		"rerolled": true,
		"avg": 288.01492537313,
		"stddev": 241.56439718259,
		"min": 35.0,
		"max": 1250.0,
		"pop": 0.1843

punctuation by toolmakers can be used against market I see (unless you are telling me that min is 35k, max 1250k to make that avg 288k - didnt think so)

Source: 

 

OHHH so thats why it was such a high number, thx for this and yea punctuation makes a boatload of difference 

[bibmobello]

The only hilarious thing is people losing time making their  graphics to sell their rivens.

[FreyaValentine]

1 hour ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

i say there will be competition 

i  played ffxiv they have the auction style market and its bad 

once a person puts 500 everyone else puts 200 another guy puts 150 so on to 100

the price keeps getting lower for the item as sellers start competing with each other to get a buyer.

( the buyer benefits the most and sellers doesnt get anything good out of it) 

sounds great to me tbh, its good for the consumer

[YandereWaifu]

2 hours ago, zoffmode said:

From my point of view, all prices spammed in trade chat are hilariously overpriced. So averages these bots provide are laughable as well. ☺️

good thing we got DEs trade data now to have a second opinion on the bot evaluations

[SyBuhr]

4 minutes ago, YandereWaifu said:

sure ill just go an ask x person to drop thier price by a few thousand to around what the riven was evaluated to actually be worth or the price range DE said rivens for those weapons sell for, i totally wont get declined. better idea is to just go buy from someone else who has something unrolled or comparable for a reasonable price but lets be real if theres idiots whod actually spend 60k on a vectis riven then these ripoffs will be around for alot longer. 

Exactly, and this is what I think bothers me a bit about retorts like this.

There are no methods in place which allows buyers to essentially expedite the search time for rivens. Right now, your choices are to either sit and watch trade chat for hours, hoping a decently/reasonably priced riven for what you want shows up, or spend ludicrous amounts of real cash for something. You're damned financially if you do it right away, your damned if you wait it out for what could be weeks or months.

If there was an auctionhouse system in place, people would be able to see these listings from players across the world, not necessarily fearing to have to stay up say 20 hours (which I have done) for a riven. People would be easily able to watch trends in prices, etc.. Essentially all the things Semlar had, which was taken away from the community. Trade chat doesn't facilitate honesty either, because of the lack of reasonable information. Again, someone can easily con a newbie out of plat any day. When we had Semlar, at least people could gauge a reasonable price for rivens. Now, everyone just puts "GOD-TIER" next to their mediocre rivens, and manages to con people. As long as our current system exists, we will have inevitable inflation and unreasonable riven prices. Everything in trade is either trash or god-tier, and it really doesn't help anyone but the seller make insane grofit off of the gullible.

Hell, I'd be willing to wait a year or so for a decently implemented Auctionhouse.

Vox Solaris forever, down with Nef Anyo.

[zoffmode]

Just now, YandereWaifu said:

good thing we got DEs trade data now to have a second opinion on the bot evaluations

Knowing the playerbase, it'll instantly get abused by riven traders spamming trades between each other to boost the average price way up.

[SyBuhr]

4 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Knowing the playerbase, it'll instantly get abused by riven traders spamming trades between each other to boost the average price way up.

I mean, they could do that and waste all of their daily trades that way. It'd definitely influence/skew the results, but it'd be more time and a hassle to do so. Coordinating it would be a task that would need to be dealt with as well. As far as I understand it, the trade does need to be finalized before it is logged.

So I highly doubt they are going to do that.

[nslay]

Hey now, I've been told repeatedly that eBay-like trade is a core part of this game... No complaining y'hear?

[YandereWaifu]

8 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Exactly, and this is what I think bothers me a bit about retorts like this.

There are no methods in place which allows buyers to essentially expedite the search time for rivens. Right now, your choices are to either sit and watch trade chat for hours, hoping a decently/reasonably priced riven for what you want shows up, or spend ludicrous amounts of real cash for something. You're damned financially if you do it right away, your damned if you wait it out for what could be weeks or months.

If there was an auctionhouse system in place, people would be able to see these listings from players across the world, not necessarily fearing to have to stay up say 20 hours (which I have done) for a riven. People would be easily able to watch trends in prices, etc.. Essentially all the things Semlar had, which was taken away from the community. Trade chat doesn't facilitate honesty either, because of the lack of reasonable information. Again, someone can easily con a newbie out of plat any day. When we had Semlar, at least people could gauge a reasonable price for rivens. Now, everyone just puts "GOD-TIER" next to their mediocre rivens, and manages to con people. As long as our current system exists, we will have inevitable inflation and unreasonable riven prices. Everything in trade is either trash or god-tier, and it really doesn't help anyone but the seller make insane grofit off of the gullible.

Hell, I'd be willing to wait a year or so for a decently implemented Auctionhouse.

Vox Solaris forever, down with Nef Anyo.

dam NGL you nailed it, we def need a feature like an auction house or something similar tbh or an ingame system that auto evaluates rivens based on the trade data they collect.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

Cant pay for it? Then don't. Simple as that. Bching about prices people set because you cannot afford them is pathetic. No. I cannot afford them either. And that is fine.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Mr.SpookSpook

[Robolaser]

il y a une heure, SyBuhr a dit :

Right now, your choices are to either sit and watch trade chat for hours, hoping a decently/reasonably priced riven for what you want shows up, or spend ludicrous amounts of real cash for something

 

Or, you could also paste a buy offer between missions, which takes about 2 seconds

Or, you could also make smart use of filters and let the trade window opened in the background while you do something else, and check from time to time

Or, you could also check third party apps and sites

Or, you could also get into trading yourself, diligently build your own wealth, then buy everything you want without spending real cash

Or, you could also get a better job

Or, you could also improve your bartering skills

Or, you could also roll good rivens yourself. After all, if you think they're overpriced, it means you also think they're easy to get, right?

Or, you could also wait for prices of new, hyped weapons' rivens to fall

Or, you could also get incredibly powerful rivens for underrated weapons for peanuts

Or, you could also not be as picky about the stats you want, and still get something good for 1/10th of the price

...

If you can't be bothered to put some efforts, or make compromises, then you don't deserve anything. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Robolaser

[BemoGuinness]

Easy way to deal with all this riven headache ......

1. Go to mod terminal in orbiter

2. Convert all rivens to endo

3. Open trade chat and set to filter out the word riven

4. Enjoy not having to deal with stupid prices, disposition nerfs, rage over wasted rolls and losing kuva.

[Wolfdoggie]

Heh, I think above 300-500 is too much in most cases if it's not extremely good. I would rather buy an unrolled and roll it myself. I often see a lot of complete garbage go way beyond that. I just giggle to myself and ignore it. Anything at 1000 better have completely perfect roll. 

Stuff that's amazing but far above 1k plat range I just consider a "not for sale" prices as in the person uses it all the time and doesn't want to sell it. I feel that way about one of mine since I sunk 90~ rolls into it for the exact stats I wanted.

[SyBuhr]

1 hour ago, Robolaser said:

 

Or, you could also paste a buy offer between missions, which takes about 2 seconds

Or, you could also make smart use of filters and let the trade window opened in the background while you do something else, and check from time to time

Or, you could also check third party apps and sites

Or, you could also get into trading yourself, diligently build your own wealth, then buy everything you want without spending real cash

Or, you could also get a better job

Or, you could also improve your bartering skills

Or, you could also roll good rivens yourself. After all, if you think they're overpriced, it means you also think they're easy to get, right?

Or, you could also wait for prices of new, hyped weapons' rivens to fall

Or, you could also get incredibly powerful rivens for underrated weapons for peanuts

Or, you could also not be as picky about the stats you want, and still get something good for 1/10th of the price

...

If you can't be bothered to put some efforts, or make compromises, then you don't deserve anything. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

 

I think you are missing my point, and misconstruding it as a means to say this is a non-issue.

No one is arguing "Beggars can be choosers". That is mis-representing the issue at hand.

The issue is the lack of readily available information for Buyers, which can lead to getting conned. If this wasn't an issue, it wouldn't have been addressed by the Developers.

 

Yes you can paste buy/sell offers. But as anyone who has spent any amount of time in trade chat will tell you, it moves fast, and your "buy" message is likely to get flooded out in seconds. Meaning that you will need to be diligently pasting that buy/sell message whenever it is off Cool-down, which is approx. a minute or so. So do you mean to tell me you are going to stop playing the mission you are in, just so that you can paste in a message? No, you won't do that, and most people wouldn't.

Waiting for prices to fall is fine, but remember: the community has no way of currently aggregating the trends. Hence why I suggested an Auctionhouse in-game. Tell me, what professional source of Statistics are you basing the falls and rises in prices? Just the chat alone is not sufficient, because you personally cannot over-see it 24/7. I'd even argue that the Developer's current aggregator is not sufficient, though it is in phase 1.

Again, it isn't about effort. I've stated that I've spent 20 hours straight in trade chat. It's hell, and I'd wager the community agrees that having a means to aggregate all the trends (ALA World of Warcraft's auction house) would be a very desired addition. Again, this is all about trading-transparency. Any schmuck out there can slap "GOD-TIER" next to a riven, and sell it for 1k+ to someone unwitting enough, or someone who isn't savvy enough to find said information.

 

Edit: It might not be obvious, but I am not stating an Auctionhouse would solve every issue. It'd expedite the buying/selling process, and allow for players to quickly reference all available listings for certain items for trade. This would mean less time actually spent trading and more time actually playing the game, again akin to World of Warcraft's AH. Would this prevent inflation of item prices? Probably not. But it would help in allowing players to identifying outliers, or identifying pricing trends in order to make informed decisions quickly, without having to wait what could be days/weeks. I am all for the free-market, but the trade-chat does not aide players, veterans or new-comers, in making rational trading decisions when it comes to rivens (although it could be argued generally as well) in a timely fashion.

Edited April 6, 2019 by SyBuhr
Post addressal for a more Clear reason.

[Maria_Steele]

34 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

I think you are missing my point, and misconstruding it as a means to say this is a non-issue.

No one is arguing "Beggars can be choosers". That is mis-representing the issue at hand.

The issue is the lack of readily available information for Buyers, which can lead to getting conned. If this wasn't an issue, it wouldn't have been addressed by the Developers.

 

Yes you can paste buy/sell offers. But as anyone who has spent any amount of time in trade chat will tell you, it moves fast, and your "buy" message is likely to get flooded out in seconds. Meaning that you will need to be diligently pasting that buy/sell message whenever it is off Cool-down, which is approx. a minute or so. So do you mean to tell me you are going to stop playing the mission you are in, just so that you can paste in a message? No, you won't do that, and most people wouldn't.

Waiting for prices to fall is fine, but remember: the community has no way of currently aggregating the trends. Hence why I suggested an Auctionhouse in-game. Tell me, what professional source of Statistics are you basing the falls and rises in prices? Just the chat alone is not sufficient, because you personally cannot over-see it 24/7. I'd even argue that the Developer's current aggregator is not sufficient, though it is in phase 1.

Again, it isn't about effort. I've stated that I've spent 20 hours straight in trade chat. It's hell, and I'd wager the community agrees that having a means to aggregate all the trends (ALA World of Warcraft's auction house) would be a very desired addition. Again, this is all about trading-transparency. Any schmuck out there can slap "GOD-TIER" next to a riven, and sell it for 1k+ to someone unwitting enough, or someone who isn't savvy enough to find said information.

 

Edit: It might not be obvious, but I am not stating an Auctionhouse would solve every issue. It'd expedite the buying/selling process, and allow for players to quickly reference all available listings for certain items for trade. This would mean less time actually spent trading and more time actually playing the game, again akin to World of Warcraft's AH. Would this prevent inflation of item prices? Probably not. But it would help in allowing players to identifying outliers, or identifying pricing trends in order to make informed decisions quickly, without having to wait what could be days/weeks. I am all for the free-market, but the trade-chat does not aide players, veterans or new-comers, in making rational trading decisions when it comes to rivens (although it could be argued generally as well) in a timely fashion.

This right here, this is something I agree Warframe rather desperately needs. This is why I only ever use warframe.market, because that's the closest thing we really have to any kind of auction house for now...and even then it's iffy sometimes.

It'd make trading a little less overwhelming to some newer people like myself, and less of a damn hassle to those who know what they're doing.

[YandereWaifu]

4 hours ago, OmegaZero said:

I could list my Hind riven at 99,000 platinum. That doesn’t mean I’ll ever sell it at that price.

actually semlars bots and some riven bots used the trade chat offers and such for thier estimation of how much a riven was worth so calling out such high numbers would make those bots say that those rivens are being sold for those prices, we only just got DEs actual trade data that says how much those rivens actually go for 

[YandereWaifu]

2 hours ago, Mr.SpookSpook said:

Cant pay for it? Then don't. Simple as that. Bching about prices people set because you cannot afford them is pathetic. No. I cannot afford them either. And that is fine.

That would be fine except that its ludicrous price for something that isnt worth nearly as much commonly known as a ripoff. besides why would i pay for that when i already own something better for that same gun that was much cheaper (ie fairly priced) 

[Test-995]

And this is still 9999% cheaper than farming kuvas/unveiling rivens by yourself... kek.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

50 minutes ago, YandereWaifu said:

actually semlars bots and some riven bots used the trade chat offers and such for thier estimation of how much a riven was worth so calling out such high numbers would make those bots say that those rivens are being sold for those prices

Which is why those bots were never an accurate gauge of riven prices. Sure they were better then nothing, I’ll grant that at the very least, but listed prices are a poor measure of value since they don’t rely on successful transactions between players.

[SyBuhr]

Just now, OmegaZero said:

Which is why those bots were never an accurate gauge of riven prices. Sure they were better then nothing, I’ll grant that at the very least, but listed prices are a poor measure of value since they don’t rely on successful transactions between players.

I believe DE's new system measures off of finalized trades. Even then, the numbers could still be skewed by a coordinated effort.

That said, that form of aggregation currently available is still insufficient (due to it being a WIP, and phase 1), as there have been mentionings of statistics not shown or available within those reports.

Ultimately, it's a step in the right direction in helping prevent scams/cons/low-bulk buyouts.

But it doesn't necessarily address the issue of having to halt game-play to go make a trade with someone, then potentially haggle with said seller/buyer, and then maybe get the deal finalized. There really does need to be a new system instated which expedites that whole process, as it makes going into a mission potentially a risky move from a seller and buyet standpoint (as the seller could have multiple people haggling for the same item, and vice-versa). As a seller, if I go into a mission, and then ask someone to wait, there is the possibility of that person not wanting to and thusly moving on to someone else. Same deal with buying. In addition, you may find out someone has something for sale, but is in a different time-zone, and thusly have to adjust your sleep and work schedule to accomodate that, which not everyone can do.

 

[SirKnum]

5 hours ago, Tazrizen said:

So from what I've heard is that there are some riven guilds that jack up prices on purpose, report traders that sell multiple low cost rivens and was a recent incident on a riven site being targeted by proxy reporters in order to kill it's algorithms pertaining to finding actual riven prices. 

 

What I do? 

Sell rivens at reasonable prices. If they're good, sellem high, but not above 300, if they're meh, sellem meh, at 50-100 depending. If they're god rivens, sell them to collectors who actually care about the best. 

If these people that report people selling low would exist I would have noticed that. I have sold a ton of rivens (500+) and the only reason why I sell quickly because for the most part I do not ask for prices out of this world but aimed at the low end of unrolled prices (I get most of my rivens from unveiling rivens).

But for some rivens 300 plat is just a joke because of the amount of plat flowing around thanks to DEs money maker (Prime Access). I have a couple of rivens that would result in me being spammed with messages in seconds if I would put them up for 300 (e.g. a decent Rubico riven, a great Pyrana riven, a few great Plague Kripaths). There is always a premium for the really good stuff and that is okay and would not change at all with a proper auction house.

What an auction house would do is reduce the number of new players getting ripped off for standard stuff and the waiting time when trading. That would obviously cut into the profits of the conartists that make profits because there is a lack of transparency. 

[WaterFalll]

If the buyers think the price is reasonable and affordable for them then they will buy, if not, they won't. Just that simple. These items/mods ain't required to progress through the game so it all depends on the desire of the buyer. And i don't think there will ever have a "professional source of statistics" to price a riven mod because almost every riven mods are different than each other. I am not saying these prices are reasonable but it is also subjective to say. Auction house may provides more choices but i don't think it can solve the riven mod's "overpriced problem".

Tradeable items in warframe are mostly prime warframes and prime weapons. They don't work like the equipment in other games. In most of the other games, once you level up to a certain level you can change to a better equipment so there will be a clear price stair. However in warframe, its all about mix and match which makes the price stair of item rather blurry than others.

If adding a auction house in warframe, we all know that all item prices will have a significant drop since most of them don't have a very strong price base and then auction house will be flooded by many items/sets which no one willing to buy since the supply will be way higher than the demand (thats why there is a ducat system for you to burn the useless and technically not sellable prime item). In a pool of the same item, sellers will tend to sell for a lower price and then platinum becomes less valuable. I don't think DE will destroy their main income in this way.

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by WaterFalll

[YandereWaifu]

1 hour ago, WaterFalll said:

If the buyers think the price is reasonable and affordable for them then they will buy, if not, they won't. Just that simple. These items/mods ain't required to progress through the game so it all depends on the desire of the buyer. And i don't think there will ever have a "professional source of statistics" to price a riven mod because almost every riven mods are different than each other. I am not saying these prices are reasonable but it is also subjective to say. Auction house may provides more choices but i don't think it can solve the riven mod's "overpriced problem".

Tradeable items in warframe are mostly prime warframes and prime weapons. They don't work like the equipment in other games. In most of the other games, once you level up to a certain level you can change to a better equipment so there will be a clear price stair. However in warframe, its all about mix and match which makes the price stair of item rather blurry than others.

If adding a auction house in warframe, we all know that all item prices will have a significant drop since most of them don't have a very strong price base and then auction house will be flooded by many items/sets which no one willing to buy since the supply will be way higher than the demand (thats why there is a ducat system for you to burn the useless and technically not sellable prime item). In a pool of the same item, sellers will tend to sell for a lower price and then platinum becomes less valuable. I don't think DE will destroy their main income in this way.

 

this is all quite true but lets be real most sellable riven mods are all the same due to the meta stats for each weapon eg for shotguns its almost always damage multi and status or some variation there of, the closer to the meta selection the better. look at stradavar prime, how many crit rivens for stradavar have you seen lately, much more than before obviously and while we dont have a "professional" source of stats to price a riven mod we do have a 3rd party option that uses DEs own data that they provided on riven sales in conjunction with the data about these meta stats and trade chat to evaluate a riven and give a price estimate  based on its stats(folrens discord). a big issue is that not everyone knows about prices and ideal stats, thats why you might have had a scenario were say with the riven i saw and posted someone bought that at such an insane price, unaware that evaluation of it showed a significantly lower price range and that DEs own stats showed no one else bought rivens for that gun at such a high price. Something ingame that shows a riven with the stats you want and simiar rivens and the price range you can expect would be great, as now people would be able to make better decisions on what they are buying.

[541K4T]

9 hours ago, YandereWaifu said:

EDIT: i found this specific one on the trade forums, yall might thing T/C is bad but jeez the forums are like the Mos Eisley spaceport on tatooine, to quote Obi wan, "you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"

WHY would anyone buy something at such an absurd price thats so far out of the range for comparable rivens, thank god folrens lets us evaluate stats and we have DEs data as well showing no one at least recently buys at that price 

99% of the rivens advertised in the trade chat aren't even worth 25% of the asked value. And that Folrunhows price cheeking BOT is also kinda responsible for that. That BOT has a rigid predefined list categorizing all the possible and the weight assigned to  them have no regards of the actual usefulness of the stat. For example it rates CC higher than Flight Speed stat on a weapon that has 5% CC but a Projectile weapon.

[VanFanel1980mx]

10 hours ago, YandereWaifu said:

WHY would anyone buy something at such an absurd price thats so far out of the range for comparable rivens, thank god folrens lets us evaluate stats and we have DEs data as well showing no one at least recently buys at that price 

Because there isn't an auction house in-game, if there was DE wouldn't sell that much platinum so is a win-win for the scalpers and DE.